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Post by lordomnibok on Jul 19, 2017 22:35:34 GMT
Wow. I wish this was the cover for the paperback as well; it really tells a story, and Ian Livingstone even posed as the bartender. When I was a kid, what first drew me to ff was the fact that the covers looked so grown up and serious; this cover would definitely have got my interest.
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Post by hynreck on Jul 21, 2017 12:33:37 GMT
It's an awesome cover, but nothing less could be expected by a pro like McCaig. But yeesh, I'll have to skip a few meal to own it. That price would be nearly double with our weak CAD. I'll have to ponder this.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Jul 23, 2017 15:19:04 GMT
The Port of Peril, the new book by Ian Livingstone, along with The Warlock of Firetop Mountain and City of Thieves are now currently available at various WHSmith stores across the UK. Get your copies now.
So far confirmed are: Sheffield, Redditch, Leeds, Borehamwoods, Exeter, Bristol, Hastings, Wycombe, Doncaster.
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Post by johnbrawn1972 on Jul 28, 2017 20:26:56 GMT
My Port Of Peril should be delivered tomorrow hopefully. Cost? A little under £5.
I had a look today at The Warlock Of Firetop Mountain in WhSMith in Sheffield. Anybody else in Sheffield?
What did I make of the book? First the gold spine meant it was unreadable in harsh shop lighting. Not very good. I had to pick it up to be able to read what the product was. This clearly has not been thought through.
Second the artwork. It seems as though the originals have been shelved in favour of what I would call basic charcoal drawings. I am not an expert at this I admit.
Third the look and feel. I was in a rush to go to work but it seemed as if the pages sometimes had 'atmospheric' scratches et al here and there. The text seemed to be italics of some sort as if to suggest something? What? I do not know.
I am not very optimistic. If you are looking to replace a battered early common book I would suggest buying a Wizard 2 as they as readable and faithful to the originals.
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Post by stevendoig on Jul 30, 2017 16:57:21 GMT
Doesn't sound too promising John. I'm getting my book for my birthday (14th August) so expect a few posts on my playthroughs after that point
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Post by johnbrawn1972 on Jul 30, 2017 19:51:03 GMT
I have been working at full pelt to realise a solution to post about this product.
Not spoilers.
1 The skill bonuses are classic infuriating insanity. For one attack the wrong route has genuine attack strength penalties but the correct route has standard poorly worded skill bonus rewards.
2 One paragraph has a special skill award bonus a la House Of Hell. It 'helpfully' rewards you by saying increase your skill to 12. This is as infuriating as House Of Hell with its +6 bonus. Is it sincere or not. Utterly stupid.
3 Later in the text a basic skill 12 is necessary then you have to acquire a sword with a +3 skill bonus. Endless stupidity a la House Of Hell.
4 Generally is it any good? Maybe about the level of Return To Firetop Mountain i.e. not very good at all. Compared to the late Jon Green masterpieces this is a joke. Depending on where you are buying from do not spend more than £5.
5 The insane item acquisition is out of control. Now you are 'blessed' with items at the first paragraph the only one of which you trade away for something 'useful' virtually 5 paragraphs later.
6 If you are a beginner in search of a masterpiece I would suggest hunting for Howl Of The Werewolf, Stormslayer and Night Of The Necromancer as they are infinitely superior to this self-indulgent tripe.
7 The book reads like a schizophrenic engagement with every classic gamebook as you engage with frenzied encounters with every 'atavistic' regurgitation numpty can dream up.
8 The gamebook mechanics are insane. A primary encounter to move forward is so stupid the 'route' is disclosed in the preface. Not a puzzle to work out but the exact left/right decision is already made for you then you have to reverse it to exit. Why not enclose a solution for the whole book and save JB1972 and Champskees from arguing about it?
9 My solution which I will post almost immediately is a bit 'subjective' to say the least. Why? Certain paragraphs give knowledge which you could guess but seems irrational a la the mixed up word in House Of Hell. This is why I have included a slightly expansive early encounter so the book makes sense.
10 A risky encounter is included in the solution when it could be avoided but it acquires an object which radically improves the odds of acquiring an item which is clearly essential to the final encounter. The 'insane' mechanics of this are ridiculous. Also it includes a 12 skill boost which is 'insanely' ambiguous. My solution is your skill is boosted to 12 even if it is not your initial skill but how is that the case? Generally 'insane' again.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Jul 30, 2017 22:54:40 GMT
Following johnbrawn's impressions, I feel I have to counter it a little. First of all, everyone is entitled to their opinions so you will just have to read the book to come up with your own conclusions.
To start off I'm just gonna say, I like it. True it's not a masterpiece, true it doesn't involve some deep gameplay or plot. But I personally found it to be a lot of fun. Ian Livingstone is best known for early classics such as Deathtrap Dungeon, City of Thieves, and also many, many turkeys like Crypt of the Sorcerer, Return to Firetop Mountain, and Eye of the Dragon in the later stages of FF. His gameplay mechanics are notoriously inconsistent and almost always unfair.
This story has a very retro style to it, almost as if a young teen picked up a FF book, loved it, then had a go at penning his own. That's not to say it's amateurish, not at all. Ian wanted to feature familiar names and places, he wanted an old villain brought back, and he wanted his hero to have some friends along the way. And that's exactly what we got. It's an adventure made for a younger mind-set where you end up visiting many areas across the land, meeting friendly or dangerous encounters on your way to hunting treasure.
As is often the case, Ian likes to give us plenty of items to collect - you decide which ones are useful and which ones are as useless as they appear. This is where I felt Ian's approach was much improved. In previous books, if you don't collect absolutely everything and note down every single clue or reference, you won't ever complete the adventure. In Port of Peril, you don't have to worry about that so much. The book's biggest twist is that the gameplay is actually FAIR. There's only two or three vital items you'll need but they're fairly easy to obtain. And rolling a Skill of 12 isn't necessary either.
Which brings me to the next issue: the infamous Skill bonus situations. Fortunately, it's an easy one to solve. There's a part in the book where you can 'increase your Skill to 12' (or you can choose Stamina or Luck). Treat this as a specific instruction in the text that allows you to raise your score above its Initial level. It's the only way it makes sense and the one I'm going to stick with. The other issue is one battle having a Skill bonus similar to House of Hell's kris knife, so going with the only result that makes sense again, treat it as Attack Strength instead. In these cases, I have no problem with bending the rules to what they should be. It gives me much more enjoyment and it saves me from having to sweep the floor after pulling my hair out over another obvious oversight.
The only thing that is unforgivable is the replacement artwork. The covers are great, but the grayscale interiors just don't evoke any imagination. I miss the old illustrations that were full of drama, detail, and dynamism - good enough to hang on a wall. The new pictures that ARE rendered well are only average at best and I hope the next batch of adventures will feature a different artist.
At first I was very sceptical of whether Ian was still capable of writing a decent adventure but my doubts were quickly dispersed. I found myself immersed in a well presented adventure that while not perfect, had a rather fun vibe to it and kept me entertained from (a little after) the beginning stage to the end. It has a classic feel more in line with Island of the Lizard King than Eye of the Dragon and definitely worth a look. It will likely appeal more to the younger audience it is aimed at, though maybe less so to the older bunch who prefer more modern gamebook mechanics or want a deeper storyline.
6/10
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Post by johnbrawn1972 on Jul 30, 2017 23:50:54 GMT
I do not really want to 'argue' with Champskees, Greenspine, Sylas, Hynrek, erm Nathan(very good on City of Thieves) and so on. Nevertheless you can follow someone elses argument and at least see where they are coming from. I gave direct points and these can assessed. One of the best helpfully made it clear aesthetic judgements are experience-relative. You cannot give dogmatic assent but you can read the book yourself and see if someone's criticisms are sincere or not.
I am not at all sure we can 'make it up as we go along' but for a challenge we can agree to a 'rule' even if it is essentially dogmatic.
Considering the vast output of books over a long period of time if a 'pioneer' of a series cannot be bothered to give people like us a product which has consistent rules which really satisfies it absolutely stinks.
A seemingly endless list of 'irrelevant and worthless' items is a sick joke. Why are we paying money to read and document items where there is no 'interaction' in an interactive adventure. Why are you wasting our time? In that case why not write a straight adventure story where this 'passivity' would be explained.
The flintlock pistol is a straight lift from Jon Green but so manifestly mishandled as to be worthy of contempt. It is clear from the text the pistol is defective and needs to be mended but when it comes to the crunch story wise there is no acknowledgement of this. Lazy beyond belief.
Also the lengthy descriptions seem to be lifted from Jon Green yet the story blows you all over the globe so there is no sense of continuity. The delightful sense of humour of those later works is lacking as well.
Any sense of passion is totally lacking. This is a work of someone who no longer really cares and they are just going through the motions. Wild Hill Men? We encountered them back in Forest Of Doom. Why are we meeting them yet again with an exact replica of the bow and arrow encounter. Why am I paying for this?
A skill 12 is not necessary? Are you kidding? The final encounter demands it. Presumably you 'make it up as you go along' and it is only skill 6? If you do this why buy a book at all? Save your money and create whatever 'fantasy' you feel like. The rest of us have bought a product and we passionately care about whether it is any good.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Jul 31, 2017 0:25:23 GMT
I should've been clearer and said Skill 12 isn't necessary to start with, since you can get the boost later on. You don't have to roll a 6 for Skill to win like you do for many of Ian's books.
I've also given reasons to why I played the book the way I did so it's not just making it up as I go along. I went for a way I deemed was fair and in keeping with rules presented in other books during similar encounters. It's not like I'm adding Skill for healing, armour, and treasure as well.
I could nitpick many things too such as Leo Hartas spelling Salamonis wrong on the map, or Ian getting Sukumvit wrong. But these are very minor things that don't make the book any worse. The things that bothered you didn't have that effect on me. Jon Green also borrowed heavily from Ian in Stormslayer so it's only fair he should return the favour.
It's a shame you didn't enjoy it. It's your opinion and I respect that. I liked it so I don't share your negative views, but everyone's different.
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Post by lordomnibok on Jul 31, 2017 1:05:38 GMT
Its a shame to be hearing bad things about the interior artwork. I didn't mind losing out on the POP illustration job (my crosshatch pen drawings are quite dark) but I was hoping the book would be graced with some really inspiring visuals. My copy comes in a couple of days so I'm rather eager to make my own mind up.
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Post by lordomnibok on Aug 1, 2017 13:27:29 GMT
Despite their charcoal look, I think the POP illustrations may well be digital, drawn up using a Wacom-esq tool straight into Photoshop. I might be wrong, but that is my guess. I shan't be negative as I do like some of the illustrations (ref 11 for example) but many characters do look identical in style to the work of my animation friends who design cartoons for very young audiences. I'm not saying its bad, so this is not a jab at the artist, its merely that the cartoon style doesn't sit well with me in an ff book. I would have also liked the hardback cover on the softback to compliment less toony pen or pencil work inside. I think younger audiences would have preferred that too, but this is obviously subjective so hopefully I am wrong. Either way, these are just my personal preferences; how I would have loved it to be. But i am still very much looking forward to reading the book now that its arrived
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Post by Wilf on Aug 5, 2017 14:15:09 GMT
FF returns to Reading... although you've got to search for 'em! One copy each of Warlock and Citadel in Waterstones, and one copy each of Warlock and Port in WHSmiths... and that's it! Except there's no more Port. It got bort. By me! Not opened it yet. Thought this thread needed lots more posts, and a big S P O I L E R warning, so if no-one minds, I'm going to unleash Adventuring Wilf on it for the first time right here and right now. Is it a classic like Bloodbones, or a stinker like Blood Of The Zombies? Will yer Wilf survive long enough to find out? Let's go...
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Post by Wilf on Aug 5, 2017 14:24:06 GMT
Cover art is colourful, but too basic and cartoony for my taste. Back cover blurb tells me virtually nothing! Mysterious...
A Leo Hartas map! Good start. Is this a new piece or a reprinted one? It does look familiar...
Why are the rules at the back? Isn't there enough page turning in the adventure itself? Silly move.
SKILL: 11 STAMINA: 19 LUCK: 7
Rolled with my Jon Green You Are The Hero dice, no less!
Am taking a Potion Of Luck.
No special rules, it seems, so let's get on with the story.
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Post by Wilf on Aug 5, 2017 14:36:04 GMT
Oh dear. Not even out of the Background before the first tpyo pops up. "Sukhumvit" indeed.
It seems I'm chasing after treasure from a map so dodgy even the local drunkards don't believe in it.
I seem to have an awful lot of items on me already. Can't imagine they'll be that useful if I'm being given them on reference 1, though.
How exactly do I gain 1 Stamina point before I've had the chance to lose any Stamina? Presumably there'll be a way to return to reference 1 at some stage. Either that, or the author was asleep when he wrote this.
Yes, I'll talk to the stranger. Coincidentally, he happens to be in need of an item I've got. Yes, I'll trade. Yet another unusable Stamina gain. I'll make all the trades, though. They're offered sequentially, which means if I don't make the first, I won't get to the last, and I'll bet that's the useful one.
Staying in the market, I witness a theft. Might be some reward here - let's do my civic duty.
Bitch turned the tables on me, and it's not my lucky day. Have been pelted with crap and *now* I could use a Stamina point!
Let's leave via Silver Street.
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Post by Wilf on Aug 5, 2017 15:01:05 GMT
Really don't like the artwork in this one - the old line drawings of the previous books were far more to my taste. Not quite the worst ever FF artwork, though - Stormslayer still carries that dubious honour by a mile.
No idea what I've got that might interest a jeweller, but let's go in anyway. I was right - I have nothing! That was fruitless! Guess I needed to be Lucky back there to get the rabbit charm? I'll find out in another life. Hope it wasn't important.
Let's chat to Steptoe instead. Probably closer to my social status right now. Nope - speaking to him is fruitless, too. I have no copper pieces so I guess I'd better go back to the square. Let's see if I can get some armour instead.
With no money to buy a dagger, and insufficient stupidity to attack an armed Cyclops in his own weapon shop, there's nothing for me in Cy's place. There's an Ogre offering me work, though, so let's earn some pennies.
Oh dammit, do I have to fight him? Are there no honest folk in Chalice? Le sigh. Very well, let's see what he's made of...
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Aug 5, 2017 15:02:46 GMT
Please don't clog with 300+ posts detailing each paragraph you visit
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Post by Wilf on Aug 5, 2017 15:20:37 GMT
Considering I have a three point Skill advantage, I think I'm doing quite badly to have taken three hits from the brute. Still, I now have some money. Think I'll scoff some Provisions before I move on, too. For no readily apparent reason, I'm not allowed to go back to Silver Street, so let's head for the beggars.
I've not yet met any nice people, so I'm in no mind to show the beggars I have money to throw around. After being further punished for my curiosity, Lion Street offers me some more shopping opportunities. Not sure how useful some random keys will be, but as I'm told the number of keys on the bunch, and that this is a Livingstone book, I imagine one of them will open something interesting further down the line.
OK, this isn't Midnight Rogue and I'm not out on the rob, so let's quit town. I really don't feel like I'm getting anywhere here, and this place (as the text has already pointed out) isn't a patch on Port Blacksand. Outta here.
My luck *just* holds as a horseman bears down on me. There's a cottage offering shelter - let's investigate that. Uh-oh - it's occupied, and they don't seem to be friendly. Why do you never see any Woman-Orcs, btw? In Allansia, I mean - I see plenty in Reading. I digress.
Man-Orcs (Men-Orc?) defeated in straight sets. Taking everything they have. Swallowing Luck Potion and leaving vial behind so I can take an extra jar. Eating Provisions for same reason. I can't imagine bones or dead flies have any use - taking the other three.
At the risk of wandering into an Evil Dead movie, I'm checking out the monster in the cellar. Glad I swallowed my Luck Potion - I'd have died here otherwise. Zombie defeated in straight sets, too.
Thinking I could pull the newcomer into the cellar like the Zombie tried to do with me, I wait for him to come to me...
Fatal Error. I just got buried alive.
Died with Skill 11, Stamina 18, Luck 7, Provisions 8, Gold 2, Copper 16, and a ton of items, but barely out of the starting blocks as I'd only just left Chalice.
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Post by johnbrawn1972 on Aug 5, 2017 21:24:21 GMT
This is very enjoyable but can I ask for fairly chunky posts so we do not have Wilf overload? I would suggest, using a tennis metaphor, City Of Thieves is John McEnroe aged 25 in 1984 while The Port Of Peril is John McEnroe aged 58 in 2017.
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Post by Razaak's Ghost on Aug 6, 2017 2:04:07 GMT
If someone can post a shot of one or two of the interior illustrations that would be much appreciated! I'm eagerly awaiting my copy by as I'm in Asia, it will take a while to reach me. Not expecting too much by the sounds of it, but at least a little nostalgia a la Return to Firetop Mountain is better than the nothing we've had the last 5 years.
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Post by elnombre on Aug 9, 2017 10:09:01 GMT
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Post by lordomnibok on Aug 9, 2017 13:22:43 GMT
what in the world is going on here? The reviewer is right, the citadel of chaos image looks like a quick tracing of the original. I wonder if Krizan was told to do this, or was this his own idea? I shall avoid the urge to rant because its not implausible that the artist was given a horrific time schedule to work with, but if so, WHY? Good art isn't created in 5 minutes, so give the artist some time! I have decided to stick with my well read, well loved green spine classics, no matter how rough they are getting around the edges.
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Post by johnbrawn1972 on Aug 11, 2017 17:22:38 GMT
I have altered my solution due to the disclarity regarding the provisions situation. It has been mentioned elsewhere the beginning implies you are without food hence the bizarre opening stamina issues. Also your partner hunts for food later on. Why would this be necessary if you could share provisions a la Caverns of the Snow Witch? The irritating thing is the instructions seem to be lifted from a standard book. Yet another brickbat.
This makes the book much harder. A good thing?
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Post by lordomnibok on Aug 11, 2017 22:20:48 GMT
Add one stam on page 1? I presume that I can go above my initial stats straight away then... or is there a time loop that sends me back here. Sorry, not sure if I'm being dim but its just a curious start.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Aug 11, 2017 23:23:43 GMT
Add one stam on page 1? I presume that I can go above my initial stats straight away then... or is there a time loop that sends me back here. Sorry, not sure if I'm being dim but its just a curious start. Unfortunately no. This is either an oversight or a deliberate joke. The only times you are allowed to exceed Initial stats as instructed by text is when Yaztromo gives you a power up, and when you use a certain weapon against a certain demon.
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Post by lordomnibok on Aug 12, 2017 0:20:56 GMT
Add one stam on page 1? I presume that I can go above my initial stats straight away then... or is there a time loop that sends me back here. Sorry, not sure if I'm being dim but its just a curious start. Unfortunately no. This is either an oversight or a deliberate joke. The only times you are allowed to exceed Initial stats as instructed by text is when Yaztromo gives you a power up, and when you use a certain weapon against a certain demon. Wow. That's a heck of an oversight, especially as the exact same error seems to be repeated more than once right near the start. Very odd - I'm somewhat bemused - but okay, thanks for the clarification Sylas. I shall read on.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Aug 12, 2017 3:32:26 GMT
I don't own the book, but isn't this roughly what happens at the start of Star Strider? You eat food cubes right at the start for no good reason. Homer Simpson tries to eat food cubes on full STAMINA Maybe this is a super cunning reference back to this book. Ian Livingstone mentioned that there are any number of Easter Eggs hidden in the book for older readers. (No doubt you're only allowed to eat the Easter Eggs when already on full STAMINA.)
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Post by lordomnibok on Aug 12, 2017 9:46:57 GMT
I don't own the book, but isn't this roughly what happens at the start of Star Strider? You eat food cubes right at the start for no good reason. Homer Simpson tries to eat food cubes on full STAMINA Maybe this is a super cunning reference back to this book. Ian Livingstone mentioned that there are any number of Easter Eggs hidden in the book for older readers. (No doubt you're only allowed to eat the Easter Eggs when already on full STAMINA.) Haha. Thanks for the clip. Yes, I remember those food cubes. In POP you seem to get a few useless boosts in quick succession near the start. Maybe it is a reference to food cubes... Or maybe my mind will be blown in a few weeks when I realise that these anomalies form part of a secret code which allows me to complete Crypt of the Sorcerer without cheating, whilst also solving world hunger issues... Then again, maybe it is just a puzzling set of glitches that have no excuse to be here. I have my suspicions, but I'm still on my first play through, so I shall refrain from making accusations at the moment.
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Post by a moderator on Aug 12, 2017 22:58:56 GMT
The rules of Star Strider lack the usual restrictions on exceeding Initial scores, so the Stamina gain from eating the food cubes can be applied.
The rules of Port of Peril forbid exceeding Initial scores without explicit permission, so the earliest instances of Stamina gain are an authorial and/or editorial blunder.
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Post by lordomnibok on Aug 13, 2017 10:13:40 GMT
The rules of Star Strider lack the usual restrictions on exceeding Initial scores, so the Stamina gain from eating the food cubes can be applied. The rules of Port of Peril forbid exceeding Initial scores without explicit permission, so the earliest instances of Stamina gain are an authorial and/or editorial blunder. I appreciate your response because I seem to recall liking the food cubes & exceeding my initial scores. Strange how I can remember that from thirty years ago. I'm now wondering if there are other possible errors right near the start of POP, such as money problems & skill boosts, but I am only on my third attempt so it would be unfair to make such judgments yet. I'll find out as I go along, but I bet you would never see these type of errors if some core fans on here had proof read it. Anyway, as long as the book can be completed fairly, that's the main thing, and I'm finding the writing fairly enjoyable at the moment.
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Post by Wilf on Aug 13, 2017 11:18:35 GMT
PoP definitely needed to be proof-read and playtested.
You appear to be constantly hungry and being fed throughout the book, despite having 10 Provisions in your backpack.
The book continually assumes that you have certain items in your backpack (most egregiously when trading with Bignose for his battleaxe, in which no alternative option is given) despite there being many opportunities to lose random items en route.
It is very possible to meet Klash without ever having heard of him, but the book assumes that you have.
It is likely you will meet Gurnard Jaggle without knowing who his brother is, yet the book assumes that you do.
In common with Blood Of The Zombies, it seems Ian Livingstone's grasp on the gameplay aspect of his novels has deserted him.
And that's before we talk about unclear rules regarding stat bonuses and exceeding initial scores...
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