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Post by vastariner on Apr 8, 2022 19:50:24 GMT
I went for Con because it is the shortest and I thought maybe people's eyes would skim over it...
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Apr 8, 2022 21:17:40 GMT
I did slightly better this time than the last one so that's good enough for me.
Thanks for doing this btw.
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Post by CharlesX on Apr 8, 2022 21:40:58 GMT
I agree with Sylas, I don't like competitive games, so getting several 1-point answers, not getting any incorrect answers, and only answering 1 question with the maximum (worst) score is pretty cool.
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Post by petch on Apr 8, 2022 22:32:35 GMT
Good fun even if I did come last - my abundance of Deathmoor answers really didn't pay off! I liked your tactic of going for the same book for several of the answers...unfortunately you chose the wrong one as Deathmoor proved a pretty popular choice across the board. Deathmoor would however have been an acceptable answer for Q10...but for once, no one went for it!
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Post by tyrion on Apr 8, 2022 22:38:24 GMT
Thanks for doing this petch.
I'm just glad a I beat sylas (aka fighting fantasy loremaster)!
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Post by Wilf on Apr 9, 2022 1:35:38 GMT
Thank you for running this, petch. Great fun!
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Post by Peter on Apr 9, 2022 10:28:37 GMT
Yes thank you petch. These are good fun.
So much so, in fact, that I have put together some questions myself. If people want another round I could post them, maybe in a few weeks when I have finalised the 10.
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Post by petch on Apr 9, 2022 11:58:44 GMT
Yes thank you petch. These are good fun. So much so, in fact, that I have put together some questions myself. If people want another round I could post them, maybe in a few weeks when I have finalised the 10. I'd definitely be up for another round! Out of interest - because hey, why not - if we were to have an overall leaderboard for this it would look like this: 1. thealmightymudworm - 15 2. Wilf - 20.5 3. petch - 24 4. bloodbeasthandler, greenspine - 25 6. Peter, The Count - 25.5 8. natwa - 26 9. Gabe Fandango, kieran - 27 11. terrysalt, Charles X - 28 13. nathanh - 31 14. vastariner - 33 15. sylas, philsadler - 33.5 17. tyrion - 37 So as not to penalise anyone who only took part in one of the rounds, for these players this is the score they accumulated in the game they played. For anyone who played both, this is their average score from both rounds. Probably not an ideal way of doing it, especially as round 1 was significantly higher-scoring overall, but if anyone has any better suggestions please put them forwards!
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,462
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Apr 9, 2022 12:10:06 GMT
Yes thank you petch. These are good fun. So much so, in fact, that I have put together some questions myself. If people want another round I could post them, maybe in a few weeks when I have finalised the 10. Sounds good
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Apr 9, 2022 14:24:01 GMT
I have 10 questions now if people don't mind me taking the reins, then Peter should have his 10 sorted afterwards.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Apr 11, 2022 18:31:08 GMT
Question 5: Name an author credited with co-writing a Fighting Fantasy gamebook. Correct answers: Ian Livingstone: 4 (sylas, terrysalt, thealmightymudworm, Wilf) Mark Smith: 3 (bloodbeasthandler, greenspine, kieran) Jamie Thomson: 2 (Charles X, philsadler) Steve Williams: 2 (Gabe Fandango, tyrion) Jim Bambra: 1 (vastariner) Dave Morris: 1 (The Count) Stephen Hand: 1 (Peter) [...] Final scores: 1. Gabe Fandango - 13 2. thealmightymudworm - 15 3. philsadler - 16 4. Charles X, tyrion - 17 6. Wilf - 18 7. vastariner, The Count - 19 9. sylas - 20 10. terrysalt - 21 11. Peter - 22 12. greenspine - 24 13. bloodbeasthandler - 26 14. kieran - 27 Rats! Never bet on Ian Livingstone! I do like this game. I like how you can spend ages trying to second guess other people's second guesses, and yet have no idea whether it's more effective than trusting to blind luck. Out of interest - because hey, why not - if we were to have an overall leaderboard for this it would look like this: 1. thealmightymudworm - 15 2. Wilf - 20.5 3. petch - 24 4. bloodbeasthandler, greenspine - 25 6. Peter, The Count - 25.5 8. natwa - 26 9. Gabe Fandango, kieran - 27 11. terrysalt, Charles X - 28 13. nathanh - 31 14. vastariner - 33 15. sylas, philsadler - 33.5 17. tyrion - 37 So as not to penalise anyone who only took part in one of the rounds, for these players this is the score they accumulated in the game they played. For anyone who played both, this is their average score from both rounds. Probably not an ideal way of doing it, especially as round 1 was significantly higher-scoring overall, but if anyone has any better suggestions please put them forwards! No no, this is definitely the best way.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Apr 11, 2022 20:50:33 GMT
I will be posting the next set of questions tomorrow (12.4.22)
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Post by Gabe Fandango on Apr 12, 2022 2:29:24 GMT
So as not to penalise anyone who only took part in one of the rounds, for these players this is the score they accumulated in the game they played. For anyone who played both, this is their average score from both rounds. Probably not an ideal way of doing it, especially as round 1 was significantly higher-scoring overall, but if anyone has any better suggestions please put them forwards! Surely, this method penalizes players who take part every game, which might be worse since you are punishing people for more active participation? If a person only plays once and scores well, he just have to stop playing to remain on top of the leaderboard because he can't ever accumulate more points? Why not keep a separate score card where each player's position for each game gets awarded the inverse number of points relative to the number of people who participated that round. For example, if a person is first place in a game with 15 people, he's awarded 15 points, 2nd place is awarded 14, 3rd place 13, etc?
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Post by petch on Apr 12, 2022 9:45:08 GMT
So as not to penalise anyone who only took part in one of the rounds, for these players this is the score they accumulated in the game they played. For anyone who played both, this is their average score from both rounds. Probably not an ideal way of doing it, especially as round 1 was significantly higher-scoring overall, but if anyone has any better suggestions please put them forwards! Surely, this method penalizes players who take part every game, which might be worse since you are punishing people for more active participation? If a person only plays once and scores well, he just have to stop playing to remain on top of the leaderboard because he can't ever accumulate more points? Why not keep a separate score card where each player's position for each game gets awarded the inverse number of points relative to the number of people who participated that round. For example, if a person is first place in a game with 15 people, he's awarded 15 points, 2nd place is awarded 14, 3rd place 13, etc? Get what you mean, but by that method anyone who misses a round wouldn't be able to score in that round, which wouldn't be fair on say, sylas, as he won't have the opportunity to score in the next game as he'll be running it. Know my method wasn't the most elegant solution either, but I can't think of a fairer way of doing it. Plus most people seem to be enjoying this, so would like to think they wouldn't purposefully skip a game just to artificially maintain their position on the overall leaderboard (and by doing so also miss the chance to get the bragging rights of winning an individual game!).
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Post by Gabe Fandango on Apr 12, 2022 10:07:13 GMT
Know my method wasn't the most elegant solution either, but I can't think of a fairer way of doing it. Plus most people seem to be enjoying this, so would like to think they wouldn't purposefully skip a game just to artificially maintain their position on the overall leaderboard (and by doing so also miss the chance to get the bragging rights of winning an individual game!). I'm not sure I understand your logic. I understand you prefer not to penalize new players or the ones who are running the game, but doing it in a way that penalizes the more active ones is NOT a 'fairer' way. It's just as unfair, if not more so, to punish players for participating more actively. If you can't think of a fairer way than that then maybe the better way is to forget about a leaderboard and let each individual game stand on its own.
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Post by petch on Apr 12, 2022 11:11:03 GMT
Fair enough. I thought maybe an overall leaderboard might add a little something extra to this whole thing, but if everyone's not on board with it, happy to leave it and as you say, let each game stand on its own.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Apr 12, 2022 14:46:07 GMT
Right then, having a go with the next set of questions. New to this so let me know if anything is amiss. Again, I won't be going over the rules (please see original post for that), and I too will try to make the questions as clear as possible. Here they are:
1. Name a type of Golem.
2. Name a spell that costs 2 Stamina to cast.
3. Name a creature you can fight (has Skill and Stamina) in The Citadel of Chaos.
4. Name a FF gamebook written by a Steve Jackson.
5. Name an island on Titan (must have ‘island’ in its name).
6. Name a gambling game (need book title for reference).
7. Name a type of Potion.
8. Name a creature with more than one head (need book title for reference).
9. Name a gem you can pick up in Deathtrap Dungeon.
10. Name a creature with the same value for both its Skill and Stamina (need reference).
Please post me your answers by PM only and by 22nd April 2022. Scores and breakdown of results will be posted on the 23rd or 24th.
Good Luck!
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Post by Gabe Fandango on Apr 12, 2022 15:19:27 GMT
Fair enough. I thought maybe an overall leaderboard might add a little something extra to this whole thing, but if everyone's not on board with it, happy to leave it and as you say, let each game stand on its own. Well, I'm not everyone, just one person stating his views. There may well be others who like your method (we already have at least one). I just feel there's something wrong with a system where a person can (to use an extreme example) score 11 points 10 games in a row but still loses to a person who just plays once and scores 10 point. If we were to use the system you suggest, at the very least, that person should be removed from the scroreboard if he stops playing for more than 2 games in a row. It'll at least give the ones behind him a chance to catch up. I mean, this is not really a time-consuming game. There's a span of weeks to submit answers, so if someone is inactive for that long, he's either not interested enough or have some other more pressing concerns that he probably wouldn't even care whether he's still on the scoreboard or not. And I do wish there's a way to take into account the fact that it's much more difficult to score unique answers when he's playing against 15 people than if he's only playing against 5 (hence my suggestion of awarding the inverse number of points proportionate to the number of players in each game).
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Post by a moderator on Apr 12, 2022 16:49:30 GMT
In view of one of the questions in this batch, I think it worth mentioning what is part of the 'standard' rules for contests like this, which has yet to be mentioned here, but could prove relevant.
More Specific Variants Sometimes it's possible that one entrant will give an answer that is a more specific variant of an answer given by someone else. In that case the more specific variant will usually be scored as if the two answers are different, but the other, less specific variant will be scored as if they are the same.
Example: The question is 'Describe the manner in which one of the other contestants in Deathtrap Dungeon or Trial of Champions dies.' Answers given include 'Killed in battle by your character', 'Killed fighting you while delirious from cobra venom', 'Killed by you after rejecting your offer of an alliance', and 'The Dwarven Trialmaster forces you to fight him to the death'. 'Killed in battle by your character' applies to all four of these answers, and scores four points. 'Killed fighting you while delirious from cobra venom' and 'The Dwarven Trialmaster forces you to fight him to the death' both refer to the death of Throm in Deathtrap Dungeon, so while phrased differently, they describe the same incident and count as the same answer, each scoring two points as a more specific variant of the four-point answer. 'Killed by you after rejecting your offer of an alliance' is unique to the Chaos Champion in Trial of Champions, and scores just one point as a different more specific variant.
Any questions?
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,462
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Apr 12, 2022 21:29:26 GMT
In view of one of the questions in this batch, I think it worth mentioning what is part of the 'standard' rules for contests like this, which has yet to be mentioned here, but could prove relevant. More Specific VariantsSometimes it's possible that one entrant will give an answer that is a more specific variant of an answer given by someone else. In that case the more specific variant will usually be scored as if the two answers are different, but the other, less specific variant will be scored as if they are the same. Example: The question is 'Describe the manner in which one of the other contestants in Deathtrap Dungeon or Trial of Champions dies.' Answers given include 'Killed in battle by your character', 'Killed fighting you while delirious from cobra venom', 'Killed by you after rejecting your offer of an alliance', and 'The Dwarven Trialmaster forces you to fight him to the death'. 'Killed in battle by your character' applies to all four of these answers, and scores four points. 'Killed fighting you while delirious from cobra venom' and 'The Dwarven Trialmaster forces you to fight him to the death' both refer to the death of Throm in Deathtrap Dungeon, so while phrased differently, they describe the same incident and count as the same answer, each scoring two points as a more specific variant of the four-point answer. 'Killed by you after rejecting your offer of an alliance' is unique to the Chaos Champion in Trial of Champions, and scores just one point as a different more specific variant. Any questions? Yeah, I came close to needing a rule like this in the contest I ran so definitely think this is a good addition.
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Post by terrysalt on Apr 12, 2022 21:40:10 GMT
Can't you just avoid questions that are that open ended? So instead of "describe how they die" just have the question be "name a contestant who dies in either Deathtrap Dungeon or Trial of Champions (please include how they die for verification purposes)". That way if 2 people say Throm, even if they describe the circumstances differently, they unambiguously gave the same answer.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Apr 12, 2022 21:48:33 GMT
To clarify, for my Question 6, I will be ruling that the gambling game needs to have an actual name otherwise there would end up being too many ambiguous options. Cheers.
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Post by terrysalt on Apr 12, 2022 21:52:19 GMT
To clarify, for my Question 6, I will be ruling that the gambling game needs to have an actual name otherwise there would end up being too many ambiguous options. Cheers. Ah well, I won't be scoring well on that question then.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Apr 12, 2022 22:25:27 GMT
To clarify, for my Question 6, I will be ruling that the gambling game needs to have an actual name otherwise there would end up being too many ambiguous options. Cheers. Ah well, I won't be scoring well on that question then. You may alter your answer in lieu of this.
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Post by a moderator on Apr 12, 2022 22:59:03 GMT
Can't you just avoid questions that are that open ended? So instead of "describe how they die" just have the question be "name a contestant who dies in either Deathtrap Dungeon or Trial of Champions (please include how they die for verification purposes)". That way if 2 people say Throm, even if they describe the circumstances differently, they unambiguously gave the same answer. You can't always tell when a question will turn out to allow for more specific variants. Players can be devious and inventive and think of things you never imagined. Your suggested alternative also raises another aspect of the 'standard' rules that has yet to come up here: 'name' versus 'name or otherwise identify'. 'Name' is taken to mean 'Give the name of', so a character who is unnamed (pretty much every contestant other than Throm) would not be an acceptable answer. 'Name or otherwise identify' makes it possible to include recognisable characters whose names are not given (such as the Ninja, the Dwarf and the Chaos Champion), allowing for a wider range of answers. The same goes for anything else which is or can be named. If asked to name a village you can visit in The Shamutanti Hills, the likes of 'Cantopani', 'Kristatanti' and 'Torrepani' would be acceptable, but 'the village with the Headhunters', 'the plague village' or 'the one where the Svinns send you to fight the Manticore' would not.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Apr 14, 2022 14:52:32 GMT
I have a query for all players. Are we accepting answers that are only found in Out of the Pit and Titan-The Fighting Fantasy World?
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Post by a moderator on Apr 14, 2022 15:08:10 GMT
Whenever the term 'Fighting Fantasy gamebook' is used in the questions, this includes only: - The original 59 Puffin gamebooks - The 2 Clash of the Princes gamebooks - The 4 Sorcery books - The 6 new books published by Wizard Books - The 4 new books published by Scholastic No other supplementary material is included Since the questions in the current batch don't use the specific term 'Fighting Fantasy gamebook', a case could be made for widening the scope to include other official material, but we could do with a definitive ruling one way or the other.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,462
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Apr 14, 2022 15:08:19 GMT
I have a query for all players. Are we accepting answers that are only found in Out of the Pit and Titan-The Fighting Fantasy World? I excluded them in my initial rules but up to you if you want to accept them in this round.
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Post by petch on Apr 14, 2022 15:09:09 GMT
I have a query for all players. Are we accepting answers that are only found in Out of the Pit and Titan-The Fighting Fantasy World? If we're sticking to the rules as set by kieran in the opening post: Whenever the term 'Fighting Fantasy gamebook' is used in the questions, this includes only: - The original 59 Puffin gamebooks - The 2 Clash of the Princes gamebooks - The 4 Sorcery books - The 6 new books published by Wizard Books - The 4 new books published by Scholastic No other supplementary material is included In fairness as some of your questions did not specify 'Fighting Fantasy gamebook' then I guess it would only be right to allow any players who have already submitted answers that are only found in those books the chance to change their answers? Of course, as it is your round and if you're happy to accept answers from those supplementary materials then that would be your call - but if we were to go down that route we'd probably need additional guidance on exactly which books can be considered (ie are answers from AFF or the novels also acceptable in that case)?
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Apr 14, 2022 15:20:32 GMT
I've been using the rules as per the original post (I have mentioned this before too) so I was assuming everyone would be using those rules too without me specifically having to post any new definitive rules. I will be accepting such answers for my questions but I agree that a definitive set of rules should be set without needing to repost for each new question setter.
Personally, I think the original rules are fine as they are. The only new rule I would add is that players can change their answers as much as they want (but don't act like a troll), as long as they do it before the given deadline.
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