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Post by King Gillibran on Jan 3, 2023 7:55:33 GMT
5 Gamebooks have now been knocked out.
In last place is: Trial of Champions with 18 votes Black Vein Prophecy: 17 (Voted For)
Sword of the Samurai: 15 Khare: 15 Master of Chaos: 13 (Voted for)
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Post by sleepyscholar on Jan 5, 2023 15:10:47 GMT
Oh, I ve just realised I read the title wrong and voted for my favourites... EDIT: this doesn't change any outcomes on the poll btw, but cmon guys, Black Vein Prophecy was awesome But... but... but... It had an unfair Luck roll! And let's face it, that makes it shite even if -- especially if -- you haven't read it.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Jan 5, 2023 16:19:06 GMT
I find it interesting that people who don't like Black Vein Prophecy always blame it on the unfair Luck Test. Which begs the question, if the Luck Test problem was rectified, would people automatically love it instead? Sounds that way since there aren't many complaints about other aspects of the book. The interesting part is that the super important Skill bonus with the Kris Knife in House of Hell is a very similar problem. Going by the rules as written, the book is almost impossible to beat. And yet no one moans about that or deems it enough of a problem to hold it back. Note that I do love both these books as well.
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Post by petch on Jan 5, 2023 16:45:00 GMT
I find it interesting that people who don't like Black Vein Prophecy always blame it on the unfair Luck Test. Which begs the question, if the Luck Test problem was rectified, would people automatically love it instead? Sounds that way since there aren't many complaints about other aspects of the book. The interesting part is that the super important Skill bonus with the Kris Knife in House of Hell is a very similar problem. Going by the rules as written, the book is almost impossible to beat. And yet no one moans about that or deems it enough of a problem to hold it back. Note that I do love both these books as well. Malthus Dire was extremely scathing of BVP in his blog, deeming it 'archly pretentious'. Personally I think that's very unfair (and I have a personal dislike of the term 'pretentious' as a pejorative, as it's usually used to be dismissive of things that are trying to show a bit of originality), but it does show why others might have issues with it, I guess. It does require more of a cerebral effort than any other book in the series to try and work out what's going on I think, with much left unsaid or open to interpretation. My biggest issue with it is that the spell duel with Feior is too darned difficult. There have been some recent comments about the unfairness of the one-in-three sudden death choice at the end of City of Thieves, but BVP requires three or four consecutive sudden death choices for the spell selections needed (unless I suppose you have enough meta-knowledge from previous failed playthroughs to know what the spells do and work out what the most appropriate one would be given the situation - but even then it's not obvious). If you do negotiate that bit though, the flashback sequence at the end is fantastic.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Jan 5, 2023 18:29:23 GMT
Mark (Malthus Dire) is the only one to highlight other aspects of the book he doesn't like and doesn't rely on the Luck test as a trashing point. I don't agree with his opinions but I can respect them. I also think he should try playing the adventure again without a negative approach.
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Post by paperexplorer on Jan 5, 2023 23:09:46 GMT
BVP has one of the best stories in the series, luck quibbles aside
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Jan 6, 2023 3:17:24 GMT
I find it interesting that people who don't like Black Vein Prophecy always blame it on the unfair Luck Test. Which begs the question, if the Luck Test problem was rectified, would people automatically love it instead? Sounds that way since there aren't many complaints about other aspects of the book. The interesting part is that the super important Skill bonus with the Kris Knife in House of Hell is a very similar problem. Going by the rules as written, the book is almost impossible to beat. And yet no one moans about that or deems it enough of a problem to hold it back.Note that I do love both these books as well. True, but the Kris Knife bonus is almost certainly a botched Attack Strength thing and not a problem if you go by authorial intent, whilst Sleepy Scholar's white hot malevolence towards us is all too real.
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Post by CharlesX on Jan 6, 2023 12:30:30 GMT
Mark (Malthus Dire) is the only one to highlight other aspects of the book he doesn't like and doesn't rely on the Luck test as a trashing point. I don't agree with his opinions but I can respect them. I also think he should try playing the adventure again without a negative approach. I hope you will respect my opinion even though I have not read Black Vein Prophecy. I am basing my views on both his review and the Titannica entry. Tecnical errors have always been a game-breaker for me. They are for Revenge Of The Vampire, they are for Tower Of Destruction, and so they are for Black Vein Prophecy. From what I've read, Black Vein Prophecy has 5 paragraph linking errors, and an incorrectly printed adventure sheet, and ambiguous descriptions for multiple essential items (scrolls and jars, for example), as Malthus Dire says in his well-written if slightly obnoxious review. For me, those sorts of things are what would make me dislike the gamebook, much more than the luck test you have to fail. If those things weren't an issue, or if there were maybe two of those things wrong instead of more than five, I would have voted down Trial instead of Black Vein Prophecy. Sleepscholar's view, or yours for that matter, are irrelevant to me.
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Post by sleepyscholar on Jan 6, 2023 15:53:55 GMT
I find it interesting that people who don't like Black Vein Prophecy always blame it on the unfair Luck Test. Which begs the question, if the Luck Test problem was rectified, would people automatically love it instead? Sounds that way since there aren't many complaints about other aspects of the book. The interesting part is that the super important Skill bonus with the Kris Knife in House of Hell is a very similar problem. Going by the rules as written, the book is almost impossible to beat. And yet no one moans about that or deems it enough of a problem to hold it back.Note that I do love both these books as well. True, but the Kris Knife bonus is almost certainly a botched Attack Strength thing and not a problem if you go by authorial intent, whilst Sleepy Scholar's white hot malevolence towards us is all too real.
I don't even remember this fabled Luck roll thing. I probably didn't write it. Don't forget there were two people involved in that book: the guy who came up with the twins plot, and the one who just stuck a load of random Chinese words in it. And I was the latter.
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Post by sleepyscholar on Jan 6, 2023 16:02:46 GMT
Mark (Malthus Dire) is the only one to highlight other aspects of the book he doesn't like and doesn't rely on the Luck test as a trashing point. I don't agree with his opinions but I can respect them. I also think he should try playing the adventure again without a negative approach. I hope you will respect my opinion even though I have not read Black Vein Prophecy. I am basing my views on both his review and the Titannica entry. Tecnical errors have always been a game-breaker for me. They are for Revenge Of The Vampire, they are for Tower Of Destruction, and so they are for Black Vein Prophecy. From what I've read, Black Vein Prophecy has 5 paragraph linking errors, and an incorrectly printed adventure sheet, and ambiguous descriptions for multiple essential items (scrolls and jars, for example), as Malthus Dire says in his well-written if slightly obnoxious review. For me, those sorts of things are what would make me dislike the gamebook, much more than the luck test you have to fail. If those things weren't an issue, or if there were maybe two of those things wrong instead of more than five, I would have voted down Trial instead of Black Vein Prophecy. Sleepscholar's view, or yours for that matter, are irrelevant to me.
That's lucky, because my view is that whether or not BVP is full of errors (and I can well believe it is: and I would vote against it simply because of the awful cover, which was my responsibility), it's foolish to dismiss something based on ignorance. Sure, using reviews to avoid wasting your time on something you probably won't like is a good idea. But to extend that to a process of voting is essentially an abrogation of one's capacity for judgment. I acted on the opinion I have expressed here by voting for the five books that I have never read and know least about. And I'll do the same next round. If anyone would like to object to this behaviour, they are very welcome to make their case as to why it is wrong, since it has been explicitly endorsed by the creator of the poll.
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