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Post by champskees on Nov 7, 2014 8:57:50 GMT
Night of the Necromancer is another one of Jon Green’s better books, right up there with the best in the series. As with his previous title, the book is unique to the rest of the FF series for several reasons. You play a dead character throughout the adventure and this is handled in a very interesting way. There are only a few items you can possess, you do not have gold or food, and you can acquire powers after certain mind over matter actions. Dying is not necessarily game over, with a player able to be killed several times before its game over. This innovative dynamic encourages more risk taking from the player. In fact, dying is encouraged as you can score some extra will points.
Design is spot on – there are several ways to defeat the final boss and everything in between. You even have the opportunity to possess characters from the adventure and use their body to fight your battles for you! This being said, there are a few errors and due to the complexity of the book, some of the rules are not completely clear.
This solution is recommended for a minimum stats character. Because the book allows you to die a few times without ending the adventure, your chances of survival are fairly high. Note that I have attached the ‘death’ section at the end of the solution for quick reference.
001 Confront the spell casting death acolyte. 045 Strike the acolyte down immediately. 114 Fight Sk 7 St 7 Death Acolyte. Use Luck once in this combat. Fight ends when enemy’s stamina is 3 or less. If you are killed: Go to Death (288). 156 Succumb to the lure of the Nine Maidens. 257 Add 1 to Initial Skill & restore to initial value. Add 1 to Initial Stamina & restore to initial value. Add 1 Will. Restore 1 Luck. Try to leave the stone circle.
***IF RED PATH (low skill)***
288 Go north, towards the village and Valsinore Castle. 163 Approach the woman. 133 032 Fight Sk 8 St 8 Flibbertigibbet. If you are killed: Go to Death (19). Restore 4 Stamina. 019 Head north-east towards the bridge and Valsinore Castle. 121 Submit to the knight. 391 Test Skill. If success: 352 Add 1 Will. Restore 1 Luck. Restore D6+2 Stamina. If fail: 175 Fight Sk 10 St 10 Ghostly Knight. If you are killed: Go to Death (6). Restore 5 Stamina.
***IF BLUE PATH (high skill)***
288 Go north-west, towards Wraith Wood. 003 Stand your ground and unsheathe your phantasmal blade. 049 Face the Baron in single combat (though the alternatives are fine). 079 Fight Sk 10 St 10 Baron Blood. Use Luck once in this combat. If you are killed: Go to Death (290). 129 Restore 5 Stamina. Restore 1 Luck. Add 1 Will. 290 Approach the front door of her hovel. 067 Speak up and tell the wise woman that you mean her no harm. 399 Try to strengthen your spectral powers. 027 Continue with this exercise. 054 Restore Skill to initial value. Restore Stamina to initial value. Add 1 Will. Roll D6: 1-3: 230 Add Ability: Shade. 4-6: 263 Add Ability: Spectre. Lose 2 Luck. Add phrase: Fool’s Bargain. Get away from this place as fast as you can, before any greater ill can befall you. 009 107 You want to try. 042 Fight Sk 8 St 10 Grave Golem. Use Luck once in this combat. If the Grave Golem wins two consecutive attack rounds: 155 Test Will. If fail: 254 End of Adventure. If you are killed: Go to Death (61). 300 Add 1 Will. Restore D6+6 Stamina. Restore 1 Luck. 061 Test Will. If fail: 105 Lose 2 Will. Lose 1 Skill. Lose 2 Luck. 017 Fight Sk 8 St 10 Phantasmagoria. If you are killed: Go to Death (99). 142 Restore 5 Stamina. Enter Sleath.
If you have the Shade special ability: 099 Visit the Cockcrow Inn. 118 You have neither the Poltergeist or Apparition special ability. Test Will. If success: 090 Add Ability: Apparition. 097 You are not happy to let people see you and you have the Shade special ability. 299 Depart the tavern.
099/259 Explore the shrine. 229 Lose 2 Stamina. If you are killed: Go to Death (259). Try again. 199 Lose 2 Stamina. If you are killed: Go to Death (259). Test Will + 2. If success: 149 Add 1 Will. Answer is one. 1+1 = 2. Go to para 2. 002 Add 1 Will. Restore 1 Luck. Roll D6: 1-2: 120 Add Ability: Poltergeist. 3-4: 230 Add Ability: Shade. 5-6: 293 Add Ability: Spirit.
If you have the Shade special ability and have neither the Poltergeist or Apparition special ability and have not yet visited the Cockcrow Inn: 259 Visit the Cockcrow Inn. 118 You have neither the Poltergeist or Apparition special ability. Test Will. If success: 090 Add Ability: Apparition. 097 You are not happy to let people see you and you have the Shade special ability. 299 Depart the tavern.
If you have the Apparition special ability or your Will score is 12+: 259 Visit the Burgomaster’s house. 437 Leave this apparently already haunted house. 418 If you do not have the Apparition special ability: Test Will. If success: 090 Add Ability: Apparition. If you have the Apparition special ability: You have the Apparition special ability. 406 Restore 1 Luck.
Once finished: 259 Go towards the castle again.
***BOTH PATHS***
Outer Ward (006)
006 Try to fly over the battlements. 075 If you do not have the Spirit special ability: Test Will and if successful, Test Luck. If success on both rolls: 293 Add Ability: Spirit.
If you have the Spirit special ability: 094 Come back to earth and alight in the Outer Ward below.
If you do not have the Spirit special ability: 075 If you have the Apparition special ability AND either the Shade or Spectre special ability: You would rather approach the guards at the gate. 242 If you have the Shade special skill: You have the Shade special skill and wish to use it. 334 You have the Apparition special ability and wish to use it. Otherwise if you have the Spectre special skill: You have the Spectre special skill and wish to use it. 272 Lose 1 Luck. You have the Apparition special ability and wish to use it. Otherwise: Try gaining entry via the sewer outlet. 036 Fight Sk 5 St 4 Skeletal Rat. Fight Sk 4 St 4 Skeletal Rat. Fight Sk 5 St 5 Skeletal Rat. If you are killed: Go to Death (414).
414 Visit the kennels. 066 Add codeword: Barking.
If you have the phrase Fool’s Bargain written down: 023 Leave the dog alive and risk whatever may befall you. 004 Lose D6+2 Stamina. Lose 2 Skill. Lose 1 Luck. Lose 2 Will. If you are killed: Go to Death (043).
Otherwise: You do not have the phrase Fool’s Bargain written down.
043 Add note: You are now accompanied by Korzen. Add note: -1 to enemy Skill when fighting opponents with a physical form. Add phrase: Best Friend. Add 1 Will. Restore 2 Luck. 434 Visit the guard barracks. 330 Attempt to engage him in conversation rather than battle. 039 Korzen. 11+15+18+26+5+14= 89. Turn to Para 89. 089 Ask Cador any of the three questions. 057 269 Add note: Combination is 421. Restore 1 Luck. Add codeword: Braveheart. 434 Visit the smithy. 180 Call out to the blacksmith first. 014 Add 1 Will. Restore 1 Luck. Ask her if she has any idea of who had you killed. 021 140 Fight Sk 6 St 6 Clinker. -1 Enemy Attack Strength due to Korzen. If you are killed: Go to Death (434). Add codeword: Ironheart. 434 Leave the Outer Ward and approach the Inner Ward.
Barbican (317)
317 You have the codeword Barking written down. 347 Fight Sk 6 St 6 Spirit Hunter & Sk 6 St 6 Spirit Hunter together. If you are killed: Go to Death (366). 366 Approach the gatehouse and its sinister guardians directly. 443 Prepare to meet the knights in battle. 196 Fight Sk 9 St 9 Dread Knight & Sk 8 St 9 Dread Knight together. -1 Enemy Attack Strength due to Korzen. If hit by enemy: Roll D6. 5-6 = 3 Damage. If you are killed: Go to Death (20).
If you do not have either codeword Watcher or Devourer: 323/020 Climb the staircase through the right archway. 085 Fight Sk 8 St 8 Dread Knight, Sk 8 St 9 Dread Knight & Sk 9 St 8 Dread Knight two at a time. -1 Enemy Attack Strength due to Korzen. If hit by enemy: Roll D6. 5-6 = 3 Damage. If you are killed: Go to Death (20). 059 Return to the ground floor and the portcullis gate. 323/020 Climb the staircase beyond the left archway. 271 Try to dominate his drink-addled will to make him do as you command. 225 Test Will. If success: 206 Add 1 Will. 343 Add Ability: Spook. 206 Add codeword: Gateway. Restore 1 Luck. Return to the ground floor gate and re-assess your options there. If fail: 247 Lose 1 Luck. Return to the ground floor gate and re-assess your options there.
If you have the Apparition special ability or you have the codeword Gateway: 020 Attempt to pass through into the Inner Ward of the castle. 060 Either use the Apparition ability, or you have the codeword Gateway written down.
If you have neither the Apparition ability or the codeword: 020 Find another way into the Inner Ward. 393 2D6 Stamina Test. If success: 362 Fight Sk 7 St 6 Spider Husk. -1 Enemy Attack Strength due to Korzen. If hit by enemy: Roll D6. 5-6 = 2 Damage, Spider Husk restores 2 Stamina & lose 1 Skill. If you are killed: Go to Death (5). 302 If fail: 302
Inner Ward (005)
005 Explore the Blasted Tower. 034 Wait and see what it is. 200 Add 1 Will. Restore 1 Luck. 445 Explore the chapel. 260 Explore the graveyard behind it. 319 Linger a while in the graveyard, out of sight of the man. 349 Add 1 Will. Add Note: Age 3 Score and 10. Test Luck. If success: 379 Return to the door of the chapel & enter the holy building. If fail: 397 Test Will. If fail: 030 Go to Death (195). If success: 195 Ask Yorrick about ghosts within the castle who might help you. 087 012 Add Codeword: Baying. Enter the Chapel.
Chapel (274)
If you do not have either the Poltergeist or Apparition ability: 274 You do not have the Poltergeist or Apparition abilities. Test Will. If success: 090 Add Ability: Apparition.
If you now have either the Poltergeist or Apparition ability: 274 You have either the Poltergeist or Apparition special ability. 316 Lose 4 Stamina. If you are killed: Go to Death (445). Hide yourself away in a shadowy corner. 353 Add phrase: Rest In Peace. Lose 1 Will. Go down the flight of steps that lead to the catacombs.
If you still do not have either the Poltergeist or Apparition abilities or you were killed from entering the chapel: 274 Leave the chapel grounds altogether. 445 Explore the well. 232 Add note: Korzen cannot be used here or while underground. Fight Sk 9 St 12 Skeletal Serpent. If hit by enemy: Roll 2D6. If double: 202 Lose 4 Stamina & Lose 1 Will. If you are killed: Go to Death (088). 292 Proceed along the passageway in front of you.
Catacombs (088)
088 Head left. 235 Time. 20+9+13+5= 47. Turn to Para 47. 047 Ask how to make the most of your ghostly abilities. 350 Add 2 Will. Restore 1 Luck. Roll D6: 1: 090 Add Ability: Apparition. 2: 120 Add Ability: Poltergeist. 3: 230 Add Ability: Shade. 4: 263 Add Ability: Spectre. 5: 293 Add Ability: Spirit. 6: 343 Add Ability: Spook. 440 Add codeword: Banshee. Take Fizzgig the Homunculus. Note Fizzgig can help you three times in this adventure. Banish Spirit (sends an undead spirit back to the underworld). Luck Spell (restore Luck to Initial level). Skill Spell (restore Skill to Initial Level). Strength Spell (restore Stamina to Initial Level). 264 Leave the catacombs altogether.
***Note that this walkthrough assumes you have the Spook special ability at this point***
Feast Hall
445 Explore the feast hall. 095 You would rather remain unobserved. If you do not have the Shade special skill: Test Will and if successful, Test Skill. If success on both rolls: 230 Add Ability: Shade. If fail on either roll: ***Assuming you must reach para 250:***
End of Adventure. ***Assuming you can work out that Unthank is now the Lord of Valsinore after learning he is the traitor:*** 348 Fight Sk 9 St 8 Dread Knight & Sk 8 St 8 Dread Knight together. -1 Enemy Attack Strength due to Korzen. If hit by enemy: Roll D6. 5-6 = 3 Damage. If you are killed: End of Adventure. If you win: 370 Add Note: Unthank is the traitor! Go to Death (108). 108
If you now have the Shade special skill: 065 Move among the acrobats and mummers. 227 Keep watching and see what befalls. 298 Follow the chamberlain. 384 Wait and see what unfolds. 250 Add Note: Unthank is the traitor! Go to Death (58). 058 You would rather approach the keep.
Keep Gatehouse
117 You do not have the codeword Oriana written down. 134 Approach the moat-bridge on foot. 276 You do not have the codeword Hellfire written down. 394 You do not have the codewords Host, Revenant or Armoured written down.
If you have the Spirit ability: 093 Use the Spirit special ability. 312 Land again on the other side of the moat at the end of the bridge.
If you do not have the Spirit ability: 093 Try to dodge past it. 055 Test your Skill. If fail: 240 D6+1 Damage. If you are killed: Go to Death (134). 278 Fight Sk 9 Hellfire Golem until you win 3 rounds. -1 Enemy Attack Strength due to Korzen. If you are killed: Go to Death (337).
337 You have the Spook special ability & wish to pursue this path. 013 Use Cador. 3+1+4+15+18=41. 41*3=123. Turn to Para 123. 123 You have the codeword Braveheart written down. 172 Add codeword: Host. Cador’s Stats: Skill 12, Stamina 20. Take 2 Food. Take Blessed Blade (can harm undead, demons and magical creatures). 429 Try to enter the keep again. 276 You do not have the codeword Hellfire written down. 394 You have the codeword Host written down. 194 Fight Sk 9 St 12 Hellfire Golem. -1 Enemy Attack Strength due to Korzen. You are using a magical weapon of some kind. If hit by enemy: Roll D6. 1-3: 2 Damage. 4-5: 4 Damage. 6: D6 Damage. If killed by the Golem: I guess you could go back and grab Bertild, but it’s pretty hard to lose here. Add codeword: Hellfire. Restore 1 Luck. 122 Fight Sk 9 St 11 Moat Monster. -1 Enemy Attack Strength due to Korzen. Can escape after winning two consecutive attack rounds (recommended). 449 You would prefer to continue just as you are. 403 Add note: You cannot use your ghostly powers whilst in a physical body. Add note: If paragraph starts with an asterisk and you have a physical body, add 30 to current para. 170 Answer: 3 score and ten. 3*20+10=70. Turn to Para 70. 070 Answer: Death. 4+5+1+20+8=38. Turn to Para 38. 038 Answer: Unthank. 21+14+20+8+1+14+11=89. 89*2=178. Turn to Para 178.
Keep (178)
178 Prepare to fight whatever is manifesting here. 110 Roll D6: 1-2: 153 Fight Sk 11 St 12 Dragonkind Bonebeast. -1 Enemy Attack Strength due to Korzen. If hit by enemy: Roll D6. 1-3: 2 Damage. 4-5: 2 Damage & -1 Attack Strength next round. 6: 4 Damage. If you are killed: Go to Death (110). 3-4: 183 Fight Sk 9 St 11 Chimerical Bonebeast. -1 Enemy Attack Strength due to Korzen. If hit by enemy: Roll D6. 1-2: 2 Damage. 3-4: 2 Damage & -1 Attack Strength next round. 5-6: 3 Damage. If you are killed: Go to Death (110). 5-6: 212 Fight Sk 10 St 10 Living Fossil Bonebeast. -1 Enemy Attack Strength due to Korzen. If hit by enemy: Roll D6. 1-3: 2 Damage. 4-5: 2 Damage & -1 Attack Strength next round. 6: 6 Damage. If you are killed: Go to Death (110).
If you still possess a Host: 236 Pause for a bit of treasure hunting. 273 Roll 2D6 3 times: 2: Take Potion of Skill (Skill to initial level when used). 3: Take Shield. Add 1 Skill (even if this takes your skill above its initial level). 4: Take 6 Gold Pieces. 5: Take Potion of Strength (Stamina to initial level when used). 6: Take Firestone Ruby (worth 8 Gold Pieces). 7: Take 2 Meals. 8: Take Potion of Fortune (Luck to initial level when used). 9: Take Jet Amulet. 10: Take Battleaxe (When you hit enemy, Roll D6. 5-6 = 3 Damage). Not Magical. 11: Take Onyx Necklace (worth 4 Gold Pieces). 12: Take Ironbane. Leave the chamber via the north-west spiral staircase.
If you do not have a Host: 236 Go up the north-west spiral staircase.
294 Strike the shimmering sphere of light with your magical weapon (if you consider Cador’s weapon to be magical) or use the Banish Spirit ability. 424 Take Codex Mortis. 205 Continue on your way.
Keep (056)
If you still possess a Host: 056 Open the Spirit Door. 56+30=86. Turn to Para 86. 086 Take Oil of Midnight. 436 Go left. 289 You would rather not get distracted and continue on your way deeper into the dungeons.
If you do not have a Host: 056 436 Go left. 289 Unlock the door and enter the room beyond. 315 Enter the cell and see what you can do to help the Gaoler. 332 Fight Sk 8 St 7 Torment. Fight Sk 7 St 7 Torment. Do not use the Banish Spirit spell here. If you are killed: Go to Death (416). Restore 7 Stamina. This is the case and you have the Spook special ability and wish to use it. 345 Add codeword: Host. Iago’s Stats: Skill 8, Stamina 18.
If you have a Shield or you do not have a Host: 416 053 This is a bug. You should continue to Para 182.
If you have a Host and do not have a Shield: 416 Open the Spirit Door. 416+30=446. Turn to Para 446. 446 Attack the creature. 432 Fight Sk 9 St 10 Mutant Moon Dog. -1 Enemy Attack Strength due to Korzen. If you are killed: Go to Death (182). 053 Take Soul Shield. Add 1 Skill (even if this takes your skill above its initial level).
182 You are prepared to do this. 219 If you have a Host: Fight Sk 9 St 7 Catacomb Crawler. -1 Enemy Attack Strength due to Korzen.
If you do not have a Host: 219 Take the new tunnel turning to the left.
If you still have a Host: 219 Continue along the tunnel ahead of you. 111 Retrace your steps.
154 If you do not have a Host: Cross by means of the broken pillar. 179 You are in ethereal form. 421 You have none of these codewords currently written down. 197 430 Fight it using one of the burning brands that light the chamber. 157 Fight Sk 10 St 12 Necros. -1 Enemy Attack Strength due to Korzen. If you are killed: Go to Death (243). 401
If you still have a Host: Attempt to leap across to the other side. 261 Test Skill. If success: 421 If you have Ironbane: Use Ironbane. 068 Restore 1 Luck. If you do not have Ironbane: You are willing to make an offering of flesh to the Demon Gate. 438 Lose 2 Stamina. If fail: 222 Lose 1 Will. 430 If you possess both the Codex Mortis and Oil of Midnight: Use Oil of Midnight. 280 Otherwise: Fight it using one of the burning brands that light the chamber. 157 Fight Sk 10 St 12 Necros. -1 Enemy Attack Strength due to Korzen. If you are killed: Go to Death (243). 401
Endgame (243)
243 Fight Sk 10 St 10 Gatekeeper. -1 Enemy Attack Strength due to Korzen. If hit by enemy: Roll D6. 6: 216 If you have the codeword Host: D6 Damage. If you are killed: Go to Death (309). 309 Take your time to consider your actions more carefully.
If you possess a Black Hourglass: 241 Use a Black Hourglass. 296 Fight Sk 9 St 9 Dread Knight & Sk 8 St 9 Dread Knight together. -1 Enemy Attack Strength due to Korzen. If hit by enemy: Roll D6. 5-6 = 3 Damage. If you are killed: Go to Death (423). 423 Add 2 Will. Restore 1 Luck.
If you do not possess a Black Hourglass but you have the Codex Mortis: 241 Use the Codex Mortis. Read Dae deht fos tirip she thsin abot. 162 Add 1 Will. Restore 1 Luck. 132 Add Codeword: Retribution.
If you do not possess a Black Hourglass or the Codex Mortis: 241 Try to penetrate the stone circle by stealth. 211 You have the Banish Spirit special ability and wish to use it now. 162 Add 1 Will. Restore 1 Luck. 132 Add Codeword: Retribution.
If you still have the codeword Host written down: 275 Remove Host.
448 Restore Skill, Stamina & Luck to Initial Values. Test Will. If fail: 326 End of Adventure. 159
If you have the codeword Retribution written down: 419 Fight Sk 9 St 8 Unthank Undead. -1 Enemy Attack Strength due to Korzen. If hit by enemy consecutively: D6 Damage. If you are killed: End of Adventure.
375 Use the Codex Mortis. 435 Lose 2 Will. Test Will. If fail: 326 End of Adventure. 184 450 The night of the necromancer is over!
***100 Death***
If you have the codeword Endgame: 400 End of Adventure.
If you have the codeword Judgement: 279 Add 1 Will. Add codeword: Endgame. Restore Skill, Stamina & Luck to Initial Levels. Turn to paragraph you noted down earlier.
If you have the codeword Watcher: 286 If you know Unthank is the traitor: Say you seek revenge. 256 Stick with your original answer. 226 Answer: Unthank. 21+14+20+8+1+14+11=89. Reverse digits = 98. Turn to Para 98. 098 Add note: Man’s lifespan is three score and ten. Take Black Hourglass. 073 Add 1 Will. Add codeword: Judgement. Restore Skill, Stamina & Luck to Initial Levels. Turn to paragraph you noted down earlier. If you do not yet know Unthank is the traitor: Ask for a second chance. 127 Test Luck. If success: 044 073 Add 1 Will. Add codeword: Judgement. Restore Skill, Stamina & Luck to Initial Levels. Turn to paragraph you noted down earlier. If fail: 279 Add 1 Will. Add codeword: Endgame. Restore Skill, Stamina & Luck to Initial Levels. Turn to paragraph you noted down earlier.
If you have the codeword Devourer: 327 Restore Stamina to: Half Initial Value + X (X = Will Points). Fight Sk 8 St 8 Sin Eater. If hit by enemy: Roll D6. 6 = -1 Skill. If you lose: Go to ‘If you have the codeword Watcher’ section above (section 286). If you win: Add codeword: Watcher. 046 Restore Skill, Stamina & Luck to Initial Levels. Add 1 Will. Turn to paragraph you noted down earlier.
If you do not have any of the above codewords: 078 Test Will. If success: Add codeword: Devourer. 046 Restore Skill, Stamina & Luck to Initial Levels. Add 1 Will. Turn to paragraph you noted down earlier. If fail: Go to ‘If you have the codeword Devourer’ section above (section 327).
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,677
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Nov 8, 2014 0:08:06 GMT
it's possible to complete this one with only 1 death (2 if you include uncovering who the villain is). you may have to re-jig the solution a bit. the answer to the riddle can be found in the graveyard behind the chapel. just linger for a while. also, Marrok the crusader may be the better one to Spook into. he has SK 11, ST 22, but he has 6 provisions instead of only 2. you may need them more than the extra 1 Skill point.
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Post by johnbrawn1972 on Nov 11, 2014 20:35:21 GMT
it's possible to complete this one with only 1 death (2 if you include uncovering who the villain is). you may have to re-jig the solution a bit. the answer to the riddle can be found in the graveyard behind the chapel. just linger for a while. also, Marrok the crusader may be the better one to Spook into. he has SK 11, ST 22, but he has 6 provisions instead of only 2. you may need them more than the extra 1 Skill point. There seems to be an element of Champskees solution being a help guide rather than a consecutive steps solution. It is certainly different to my own because your avatar should not have meta-knowledge. Talking of meta-knowledge I love your answer to the riddle through lingering in the graveyard which I will have to add to my solution. On the last point I am completely a Cador man due to the 12 skill and ease of possession. The text even hints he could be a useful ally. You need every possible skill point against the Dragonkind Bonebeast.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,677
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Nov 11, 2014 21:15:56 GMT
that's fair enough. i suppose i've always chosen longterm survival over the glass-cannon strategy but both are viable. Spooking into Marrok wouldn't be difficult as at that point your Will would be high enough for the roll to be near impossible to fail. to each their own
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Post by champskees on Nov 14, 2014 6:35:04 GMT
it's possible to complete this one with only 1 death (2 if you include uncovering who the villain is). you may have to re-jig the solution a bit. the answer to the riddle can be found in the graveyard behind the chapel. just linger for a while. Ah, thanks. I knew that you must be able to get that clue somewhere else, just couldn't find it. Will edit in future.
After reading points from you and JB,
I think either option (Marrok/Cador) are both overpowered and should easily wipe the floor. Like JB, I still prefer Cador because the only fight where you will have genuine issues is the bonebeast combat, where it is better to have a higher skill. 2 Provisions after that fight is more than enough to finish the rest of the adventure. Still, not too much difference.
As JB has mentioned, due to the book's unique design, it's just too hard to write up a 100% foolproof solution due to the flowing design. Even failing rolls, dying or missing items, there is usually at least one alternate path you can then take. Personally I believe that you should have to find out about Unthank's treachery, but there are quite a few hints given about this and thought that it was obvious he was now in charge even without the encounter between him and the acolyte.
Also, welcome back Johnbrawn!
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Post by johnbrawn1972 on Nov 14, 2014 20:57:55 GMT
it's possible to complete this one with only 1 death (2 if you include uncovering who the villain is). you may have to re-jig the solution a bit. the answer to the riddle can be found in the graveyard behind the chapel. just linger for a while. As JB has mentioned, due to the book's unique design, it's just too hard to write up a 100% foolproof solution due to the flowing design. Even failing rolls, dying or missing items, there is usually at least one alternate path you can then take. Personally I believe that you should have to find out about Unthank's treachery, but there are quite a few hints given about this and thought that it was obvious he was now in charge even without the encounter between him and the acolyte.
Also, welcome back Johnbrawn!
I took it as read the unmasking with the acolyte is the combination lock moment a la COC. This is what I meant about meta-knowledge elsewhere. Being a bit shifty is not good enough! Surprisingly my NOTN solution is somewhat different but clearly you have explored all the nodes which has made me think twice and even made me make some amendments. With 12/24/12 stats NOTN is a blast going for the spirit stone and the kitchen sink. What is wonderful is the replay value where a 7/14/7(or 8/15/7) stat really pushed me to make some startling choices.
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Post by champskees on Nov 15, 2014 2:15:52 GMT
Hmm, it appears the above solution actually goes through the section that gives you the span of man clue I missed! Must've skimmed the detail on the tombstone!
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,677
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Nov 15, 2014 13:25:58 GMT
Hmm, it appears the above solution actually goes through the section that gives you the span of man clue I missed! Must've skimmed the detail on the tombstone! no need to die unnecessarily then
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Post by champskees on Nov 21, 2014 7:25:56 GMT
I have to say jb you make a convincing argument. Your solution makes mine look like the abridged version!
The problem I had when deciding on a solution for this book is where to draw the line. I've had this problem a couple of times and I guess I need to ask other people how they would treat certain situations before I create a solution. If you need to confront Unthank then you definitely should take every opportunity to receive Shade and increase your will points so that you can cruise through the second half of the adventure.
I guess some people would have considered it to be a grey area; after all, do you even need the Black Hourglass (especially considering that the span of man clue is also found in the graveyard)? You can still win the last fight with Unthank with minimum stats if you have the retribution codeword attached to you.
Points 9 and 10 are valid also.
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Post by Longshot on Jan 23, 2016 23:09:13 GMT
Hi, guys.
Since you seem to have extensive knowledge of the book, I thought I'd ask: how do you get the 'Blacksmith' codeword? It seems somewhat intuitive that you maybe get it when fighting the Clinker ("Someone's been listening to us!"), or at least if you die in that battle (since then maybe you spying clinker survived and raised the alarm?), but the only codeword you actually get at the smithy is "Ironheart".
Am I missing something or is this a 'bug' in the book? I believe the codeword doesn't appear anywhere in the paragraphs up and including the whole Outer Ward.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,677
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Jan 25, 2016 16:20:05 GMT
checked through the book. it's a bug
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Post by johnbrawn1972 on Jun 10, 2016 23:20:01 GMT
I think the others have implanted the idea of going with Marrok as part of a 7/14/7 solution as represented above. I have circumvented Korzen and Cador so avoiding any Fool's Bargain consequences.
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Post by johnbrawn1972 on Jun 12, 2016 9:50:14 GMT
I am breaking the cardinal rule of replying to myself but here goes. I have replaced my 7/14/7 routes for both Cador and Marrok. Korzen is now interpreted as a red herring being more trouble than he is worth. I have streamlined the encounters to make the solutions more direct. The 'rules' say to me reaching paragraph 250 is necessary so that still stands. At the last encounter I agree with Champskees solution where you clearly lose Host so it is better to use the Black Hourglass first before you lose Host meaning you fight the Black Knights with greatly improved attributes.
If you fight the Shadow King at the end you only need 3 hits to win which should be fine even if you are at a slight disadvantage. You need three hits to win. The Shadow King needs to hit you 8 times. This should see you through. This does raise an interesting issue at to whether you can use Fizzgig to restore your stamina in the middle of the melee. As above this does not seem in the spirit of the rules.
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Post by Jon on Jul 7, 2016 20:18:49 GMT
Can Fizzgig banish undead foes with physical forms, or only those that are ghostly? The Dread Knights, Zombie Executioner, Gatekeeper etc. etc. definitely have physical forms. It is ambiguous whether they can be banished with banish spirit,
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Post by johnbrawn1972 on Jul 7, 2016 23:05:55 GMT
Can Fizzgig banish undead foes with physical forms, or only those that are ghostly? The Dread Knights, Zombie Executioner, Gatekeeper etc. etc. definitely have physical forms. It is ambiguous whether they can be banished with banish spirit, I am going to go into Champskees mode here and obey both the letter and spirit of the rules. The exact wording is this:- this spell will send one undead spirit back to the netherworld. This can be used:- 1 At paragraph 294 to claim the Codex Mortis.(I presume either of the 2 blessed swords are fine along with the 2 magical swords but this is not clear in the text so I use Banish Spirit here). 2 At paragraph 211 where you can go to paragraph 132 easily. I presume this neat route is there if you have spectacularly failed to acquire any of the heavy artillery in the early encounters. Nevertheless this could render the final encounter utterly forbidding. This leaves 1 last use where you could restore you spirit's skill, stamina or luck. Again the wording is precise where it is only for a spirit so the logical consequence must be only someone physical can eat provisions. At the end if you have to fight when physically restored I presume you have to eat provisions but this is not clear in the text. At paragraph 448 you have your attributes restored to their initial values so I think the previous sentence is redundant unless you have taken a very circuitous route. My definitive route always acquires the Black Hourglass so I avoid any potential problem here. If I have no Codex Mortis I go straight into the final fight after using the Oil Of Midnight. I would argue you can only use the Banish Spirit ability when specified in the text or at any time to restore attributes if your spirit form is on its last legs.
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Post by Jon on Jul 8, 2016 18:07:34 GMT
Can Fizzgig restore stamina DURING a combat? Again, it is not clear in the text, however if he can then that would make it possible to make a foolproof solution for a weak player character. I believe that to get the hourglass then they should have gone to paragraph 250 first. The fight with the Devourer is not always winnable by a weak player character - I have lost it before. I think that it would be best to go to feast hall when they have the word Devourer written down and if they cannot make the skill roll in order to get the shade ability, they should use Fizzgig to survive the attack of the Dread Knights and then when the do Unthank banishes them, revealing his duplicity. If they then win the fight against the Devourer, there is another instakill. When the spook option for getting into the Keep comes up at ref 13, they can try spooking into Unthank by turning to ref 267. Unthank will tell Marrok that the player is a doppelganger and Marrok will attack and the player has the option to refuse to fight back - and thus be dispatched again.
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Post by johnbrawn1972 on Jul 8, 2016 21:12:10 GMT
Very late amendment to this 30.08.18
This is becoming difficult but I presume you cannot restore attributes the same way you cannot restore stamina by eating provisions in combat.
I presume you mean the Sin Eater when you have the Devourer codeword which in my system is realised when you almost certainly lose to the Black Knights. I agree this can be a tough encounter but I believe this is part of how Night Of The Necromancer is balanced. You will have skill 8 and stamina 15 in my system which should see you through but I agree it can be very close.
Some of your post is unclear in the middle. Nevertheless when you reach paragraph 250 it follows to acquire the Black Hourglass which is the most easily acquired heavy artillery in the book. Spirit Stone is difficult. Codex Mortis is moderate. Black Hourglass is easy.
You seem to misunderstand the rules. 30.08.18 It seems Chamberlain Unthank is not alive therefore you cannot Spook him. 30.08.18 The paragraph 267 is reached from paragraph 227 where you choose to reveal yourself so it is not a Spook reference in the same way as Cador and Marrok have their own special Spook paragraphs.
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Post by johnbrawn1972 on Aug 10, 2016 20:11:39 GMT
Update easier to read. Marrok only. Balanced 7-14-7 solution that follows the rules. A few side fun bits. 19.3.19(Champskees test this one!) -or the spell-casting Death Acolyte -If you want to strike the acolyte down immediately, without showing him any mercy after what he did to you -Death Acolyte sk7 st7(use 1 luck for extra damage)(reduce to 3 stamina or fewer) 6L -Succumb to the lure of the Nine Maidens - +1 initial skill and +1 initial stamina and initialise. +1 luck. +1 will. Try to leave the stone circle 7L -North-west, towards Wraith Wood -Stand your ground and unsheathe your phantasmal blade -If you would rather pit yourself against the spectral hounds of his Wild Hunt -If you would rather rely on brute strength and your own relentless determination - 3d6 <=stamina and 2d6 <=will - +1 will. +1 luck -If you want to approach the front door of her hovel -If you would rather speak up and tell the wise-woman you mean her no harm -Do you want Mother Toadsfoot to try to strengthen your own spectral powers -If you want to continue with this exercise -Skill and stamina to initial. +1 will. 1d6 1-3=Shade 4-6=Spectre. Fool’s Bargain. -2 luck. If you would rather get away from this place as quickly as you can, before any greater ill can befall you 5L -If you want to try -Grave Golem sk8 st10. If wins 2 consecutive rounds 2d6 <=will=ok >will=start again - +1d6+6 stamina. +1 will. +1 luck 6L - 2d6 <=will=ok >will=-2 will. -1 skill. -2 luck(if >will must pass will roll at First Death) -Phantasmagoria sk8 st10 - +5 stamina. If you want to enter Sleath -(it is alright to have acquired no death codewords or codeword Devourer by here) -(if have codeword Shade(1) otherwise(2)) -(1)Visit the Cockrow Inn - 2d6 <=will=Apparition >will=fail(if no codeword Spectre(2)if have codewords Shade and Spectre(3)) -If not, and you have the Shade special ability -If not(if no codeword Spectre(2)if have codewords Shade and Spectre and luck <7(4) otherwise(3)) -(2)Explore the shrine - -2 stamina. Knowing what awaits you now if you try to enter the shrine, do you want to try again - -2 stamina. 2d6+2 <=will=ok >will=(if have codeword Apparition and luck <7(4) otherwise(3)) - +1 will. Turn 2 - +1 will. +1 luck. 1d6 1-2=Poltergeist 3-4=Shade(if have codeword Spectre and will <12(1)) 5-6=Spirit 7L -(((if no codeword Apparition or luck <7) and will >11) or (if have codeword Apparition and luck <7(4))) otherwise(3) -(4)The Burgomaster’s house -Leave this apparently already haunted house -If you have the Apparition special ability. If not 2d6 <=will=Apparition - +1 luck -(3)Towards the castle again -If you want to try to fly over the battlements -Spirit or 2d6 <=will and 2d6 <=luck=Spirit(5)(sewer outlet or guards at gate as below) 6L -or would you rather approach the guards at the gate. if Apparition and (Shade(6) or Spectre(7)) -Will you try gaining entry through the sewer outlet(8) -(5)or would you prefer to come back down to earth and alight in the Outer Ward below(9) -(6)Shade -If you have the Apparition special ability and wish to use it(9) -(7)Spectre - -1 luck. If you have the Apparition special ability and want to use it(9) -(8)1st Skeletal Rat sk5 st4 2nd Skeletal Rat sk4 st4 3rd Skeletal Rat sk5 st5(9) -(9)If you would rather not delay here, you can leave the Outer Ward and make for the Inner Ward, approaching the Barbican that separates these two parts of the castle -If you none of those words written down -If you want to approach the gatehouse and its sinister guardians directly -Prepare to meet the knights in battle -(if you fail First Death will roll slide across to Second Death which can be difficult if skill <8) - 1st Dread Knight sk9 st9 2nd Dread Knight sk8 st9. If do not die(10/11) or First Death(10) or Second Death(must win)(11) -(10)Climb the staircase through the right archway - 1st Dread Knight sk8 st8 2nd Dread Knight sk8 st9 3rd Dread Knight sk9 st8. First Death(11) or Second Death(must win)(11) -(must have codeword Devourer or Watcher. If have codeword Endgame start again) -(11)Climb the staircase beyond the left archway -If you want to try to dominate his drink-addled will to make him do as you command - 2d6 <=will=ok >will=-1 luck. (Must roll 1d6=6=Spook as below otherwise start again) - +1 will. Spook. Gateway. +1 luck. Or will you return to the ground floor gate and re-assess your options there 7L -Attempt to pass through into the Inner Ward of the castle -If you have the codeword Gateway written on your Adventure Sheet -The Blasted Tower -If you want to wait and see what it is - +1 will. +1 luck -The chapel -Explore the graveyard behind it -Linger a while within the graveyard, out of sight of the man - +1 will. 2d6 <=luck=Approach the gravedigger >luck=ok 6L - 2d6 <=will=ok >will=Second Death(must win) otherwise start again -Ghosts within the castle who might help you -Baying. Will you enter the chapel, if you haven’t tried to already -If Poltergeist or Apparition or 2d6 <=will=Apparition - -4 stamina. If you would prefer to hide yourself away in a shadowy corner and observe what they are doing for a moment first -Rest In Peace. -1 will. Or down a flight of stone steps to the right of the sanctuary that leads to the castle catacombs -Head left -turn 47 -How to make the most of your ghostly abilities - +2 will. +1 luck. 1d6 1=Apparition 2=Poltergeist 3=Shade 4=Spectre 5=Spirit 6=Spook 7L -Banshee. Fizzgig the Homunculus. 3xuse=Banish Spirit, restore spirit’s Luck, Skill or Strength to initial -(if have codeword Devourer then(12) otherwise(13)) -(12)or the one to your right - 1d6 1-3=-1 will. Nightshade sk10 st8 4-6=Death Spider sk12 st9. Second Death(must win)(14) -(13)Alternatively, if you prefer, you could leave the catacombs altogether -(14)The feast hall -If you would rather remain unobserved and already have the Shade special ability. If you do not have this ability 2d6 <=will and 2d6 <=skill=ok. If you fail either roll=1st Dread Knight sk9 st8 2nd Dread Knight sk8 st8=If you defeat them both=Third Death** otherwise start again -Move among the acrobats and mummers -or would you prefer to keep watching and see what befalls -If you want to follow the chamberlain -or will you wait and see what unfolds, just to be sure -Third Death -If you would rather not waste the hours left between now and dawn and want to approach the Keep -**If not -If you want to approach the moat-bridge on foot -if not -If not -Use the Spirit special ability(15) Try to dodge past it 2d6 <=skill=(16) >skill=-1d6+1 stamina Hellfire Golem sk9 win 3 attack rounds(16) If die go to Fourth Death(16) -(15)or land again on the other side of the moat at the end of the bridge -(16)If you have the Spook special ability and you want to pursue this path -turn 228 - 2d6+2 <=will=Host. Marrok sk11 st22. 6 meals(17) >will=cut go to Fourth Death(18) or Fifth Death -(18)turn 282 - 2d6+2 <=will=Host. Umberto sk10 st19. 2 meals(17) >will=2d6 <=luck=(19) >luck=go to Fifth Death -(19)turn 297 - 2d6-2 <=will=Host. Yorrick sk9 st17. 3 meals(17) >will=turn 213. Host. Falstaff sk7 st16. 3 meals(17) -(17)Now that you have a physical body again, in which you can pass beyond the magically-warded portal of the Spirit Door, you can try to enter the Keep again -if not -If you have any of the codewords Revenant, Host or Armoured written on your Adventure Sheet -Hellfire Golem sk9 st12(use 1 luck for extra damage)+1 luck. Hellfire(if stamina <M19/U16/Y14 eat 1 meal) 6L-7L -Moat Monster sk9 st11(if stamina <M19/U16/Y14 eat 1 meal) -or would you prefer to continue on your way just as you are -*=+30 to reference to access -turn 70 -turn 38 -turn 178 -Try to make it to the north-east staircase - 2d6 <=luck=(20) >luck=-2 stamina(if stamina <M19/U16/Y14 eat 1 meal) 6L - 1d6=as below(after 3 attack rounds can escape with forfeit(20)) - 1-2=Dragonkind Bonebeast sk11 st12(if stamina <M19/U16/Y14 eat 1 meal) - 3-4=Chimerical Bonebeast sk9 st11(if stamina <M19/U16/Y14 eat 1 meal) - 5-6=Living Fossil Bonebeast sk10 st10(if stamina <M19/U16/Y14 eat 1 meal) -and you want to pause for a bit of treasure-hunting - 2d6 three times. North-west spiral staircase -Use the Banish Spirit special ability -Codex Mortis -(20)If you would rather continue on your way -turn 86 -Oil of Midnight -Do you want to go left -(if no Host then(21) otherwise(22)) -(21)If you want to unlock the door and enter the room beyond -Do you want to enter the cell and see what you can do to help the Gaoler -Banish Spirit. Torment sk7 st7. +7 stamina to ghost-form. If this is the case and you have the Spook special ability -Host. Iago sk8 st18(23) -(22)If you would rather not get distracted and continue on your way deeper into the dungeons -(23)turn 446 -Attack the creature -Mutant Moon Dog sk9 st10(if stamina <M19/U16/Y14 eat 1 meal) -Soul Shield +1 to skill even above initial level -(if you have Codex Mortis(24) otherwise(25)) -(24)if not, you could try taking the turning to your left before the creature becomes aware of your presence - 2d6 <=skill=(26) >skill=Catacomb Crawler sk9 st7. or would you rather take the new turning to the left(if stamina <M19/U16/Y14 eat 1 meal)(26) -(25)If you are prepared to do this -Catacomb Crawler sk9 st7. do you now want to continue along the tunnel ahead of you(if stamina <M19/U16/Y14 eat 1 meal) -turn 141 -Do you want to lift the weapon from the statue’s clutches - 1st Deathling sk6 st3 2nd Deathling sk6 st2 3rd Deathling sk5 st3 4th Deathling sk6 st4 5th Deathling sk6 st3 6th Deathling sk7 st2(rules)Amethyst Blade -(26)Attempt to leap across to the other side - 2d6 <=skill=(27) >skill=(28) -(27)If you have the codeword Revenant or Host recorded on your Adventure Sheet and you are willing to make an offering of your own flesh to the Demon Gate - -2 stamina(if stamina <M19/U16/Y14 eat 1 meal)(29) -(28)-1 will -(If have Codex Mortis and Oil of Midnight(30) otherwise(31)) -(30)If you have the Oil of Midnight with you and you want to use that(29) -(31)or you could try to fight it using one of the burning brands that light the chamber -Necros sk10 st12(if stamina <M19/U16/Y14 eat 1 meal) -(29)Gatekeeper sk10 st10(if stamina <M19/U16/Y14 eat 1 meal) -or will you fight every instinct that tells you to do otherwise and take your time to consider your actions more carefully -Use a Black Hourglass -1st Dread Knight sk9 st9 2nd Dread Knight sk8 st9 - +1 luck. +2 will. If you have the codeword Revenant, or Host, or Armoured written on your Adventure Sheet 7L -Restore skill, stamina and luck to initial. 2d6 <=will=ok >will=start again -If not -(if have Codex Mortis(32) otherwise(33)) -(32)Use the Codex Mortis - -2 will. 2d6 <=will=ok >will=start again -(33)(if have Oil of Midnight(34) otherwise(35)) -(34)Use Oil of Midnight against it -If so -Shadow King sk11 st12(+1 attack strength. +4 damage)(if stamina=2 use 1 luck to reduce damage) 6L -(35)If you would rather simply face the Shadow King in hand to hand combat -If so -Shadow King sk13 st18(+1 attack strength. +4 damage)(if stamina=2 use 1 luck to reduce damage) 6L
Death paragraphs as referenced above
-First Death -If you none of these codewords recorded on your Adventure Sheet - 2d6 <=will=Devourer >will=Second Death -Restore skill, stamina and luck to initial. +1 will. Turn to paragraph written down
-Second Death -If you have the codeword Devourer -Restore stamina to half initial and add stamina points equal to will score -Sin Eater sk8 st8(if luck=7 use 1 luck for extra damage)If it wins attack round 1d6 6=-1 skill. Watcher Gate=Third Death 6L -Restore skill, stamina and luck to initial. +1 will. Turn to paragraph written down 7L
-Third Death -if you have just reached paragraph 250 -If you have the codeword Watcher -Will you say that you seek revenge -If you want to stick to your original answer -turn 98 -Black Hourglass -Return skill, stamina and luck to initial. +1 will. Judgement. Turn to paragraph written down
-otherwise -If you have the codeword Watcher -a second chance - 2d6 <=luck=Return skill, stamina and luck to initial. +1 will. Judgement >luck=Fourth Death 6L-7L -Turn to paragraph written down
-Fourth Death -If you have the codeword Judgement on your Adventure Sheet -Raise skill, stamina and luck to initial. +1 will. Endgame. Turn to paragraph written down 7L
-Fifth Death -If you have the codeword Endgame written on your Adventure Sheet
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Post by johnbrawn1972 on Feb 3, 2018 16:26:32 GMT
Alternative includes Cador and Korzen. 19.3.19 -or the spell-casting Death Acolyte -If you want to strike the acolyte down immediately, without showing any mercy after what he did -Death Acolyte sk7 st7(use 1 luck for extra damage)(reduce to 3 or fewer) 6L -Succumb to the lure of the Nine Maidens - +1 initial skill and +1 initial stamina and initialise. +1 luck. +1 will. Try to leave the stone circle 7L -North-west, towards Wraith Wood -Stand your ground and unsheathe your phantasmal blade -If you would rather pit yourself against the spectral hounds of his Wild Hunt -If you would rather rely on brute strength and your own relentless determination - 3d6 <=stamina and 2d6 <=will=+1 will. +1 luck -If you want to approach the front door of her hovel -If you would rather speak up and tell the wise-woman you mean her no harm -Do you want Mother Toadsfoot to try to strengthen your spectral powers -If you want to continue with this exercise -Skill and stamina to initial. +1 will. 1d6 1-3=Shade 4-6=Spectre. Fool’s Bargain. -2 luck 5L -If you would rather get away from this place as quickly as you can, before any greater ill can befall -If you want to try -Grave Golem sk8 st10. If wins 2 consecutive rounds 2d6 <=will=ok >will=start again - +1d6+6 stamina. +1 will. +1 luck 6L - 2d6 <=will=ok >will=-2 will. -1 skill. -2 luck(if >will must pass will roll at First Death) -Phantasmagoria sk8 st10. +5 stamina -(it is alright to have acquired no death codewords or codeword Devourer by here) -If you want to enter Sleath -(if have codeword Shade(1) otherwise(2)) -(1)Visit the Cockrow Inn - 2d6 <=will=Apparition >will=fail(if no codeword Spectre(2)if have codewords Shade and Spectre(3)) -If not, and you have the Shade special ability -If not(if no codeword Spectre(2)if have codewords Shade and Spectre and luck <7(4)otherwise(3)) -(2)Explore the shrine - -2 stamina. Knowing what awaits you if you try to enter the shrine, do you want to try again - -2 stamina. 2d6+2 <=will=ok >will=(if have codeword Apparition and luck <7(4)otherwise(3)) - +1 will. Turn 2 - +1 will. +1 luck. 1d6 1-2=Poltergeist 3-4=Shade(if have codeword Spectre and will <12(1)) 5-6=Spirit 7L -(((if no codeword Apparition or luck <7) and will >11) or (if have codeword Apparition and luck <7(4)))otherwise(3) -(4)The Burgomaster’s house -Leave this apparently already haunted house - 2d6 <=will=Apparition. Have. +1 luck -(3)Towards the castle again -If you want to try to fly over the battlements -Spirit or 2d6 <=will and 2d6 <=luck=Spirit(5)(sewer outlet or guards at gate as below) 6L -or would you rather approach the guards at the gate. if Apparition and (Shade(6) or Spectre(7)) -Will you try gaining entry through the sewer outlet(8) -(5)or would you prefer to come back down to earth and alight in the Outer Ward below(9) -(6)Shade -If you have the Apparition special ability and wish to use it(9) -(7)Spectre - -1 luck. If you have the Apparition special ability and want to use it(9) -(8)1st Skeletal Rat sk5 st4 2nd Skeletal Rat sk4 st4 3rd Skeletal Rat sk5 st5(9) -(9)(if no death codewords and will >11 and(stamina >8(10) or <9(11)))otherwise(12) -(10)The kennels -Barking. If you have the phrase Fool’s Bargain recorded on your Adventure Sheet -or will you leave the dog alive and risk whatever may befall you - -1d6+2 stamina. -2 skill. -1 luck. -2 will 5L -Korzen -1 attack strength. +2 luck. +1 will. Best Friend 7L -The guard barracks -Attempt to engage him in conversation rather than battle -turn 89 -Will you ask Cador whether your sister, the Lady Oriana is safe -Combination four-two-one. +1 luck. Braveheart(12) -(11)The guard barracks -Flee the barracks and search elsewhere -Barracks -(12)If you would rather not delay, you can leave the Outer Ward and make for the Inner Ward -Do you have any of the codewords Bell, Barking, Barracks, Battlements or Blacksmith recorded on your Adventure Sheet(13) If you have none of those words written down(14) -(13)1st Spirit Hunter sk6 st6 2nd Spirit Hunter sk6 st6. If die go to First Death 7L -(14)If you want to approach the gatehouse and its sinister guardians directly -Prepare to meet the knights in battle -(if you fail First Death will roll slide across to Second Death which can be difficult if skill <8) - 1st Dread Knight sk9 st9 2nd Dread Knight sk8 st9. If do not die(15/16) or First Death(15) or Second Death(must win)(16) -(15)Climb the staircase through the right archway - 1st Dread Knight sk8 st8 2nd Dread Knight sk8 st9 3rd Dread Knight sk9 st8. First Death(16) or Second Death(must win)(16) -(must have codeword Devourer or Watcher. If have codeword Endgame start again) -(16)Climb the staircase beyond the left archway -If you want to try to dominate his drink-addled will to make him do as you command - 2d6 <=will=ok >will=-1 luck. (Must roll 1d6=6=Spook as below otherwise start again) - +1 will. Spook. Gateway. +1 luck. Or will you return to the ground floor gate 7L -Attempt to pass through into the Inner Ward of the castle -If you have the codeword Gateway written on your Adventure Sheet -The Blasted Tower -If you want to wait and see what it is - +1 will. +1 luck -The chapel -Explore the graveyard behind it -Linger a while within the graveyard, out of sight of the man - +1 will. 2d6 <=luck=Approach the gravedigger below >luck=below 6L - 2d6 <=will=ok >will=Second Death(must win) otherwise start again -Ghosts within the castle who might help you -Baying. Will you enter the chapel, if you haven’t tried already -If Poltergeist or Apparition or 2d6 <=will=Apparition - -4 stamina. If you would prefer to hide yourself away in a shadowy corner -Rest In Peace. -1 will -or down a flight of stone steps -Head left -turn 47 -How to make the most of your ghostly abilities - +2 will. +1 luck. 1d6 1=Apparition 2=Poltergeist 3=Shade 4=Spectre 5=Spirit 6=Spook 7L -Banshee. Fizzgig the Homunculus. 3xuse=Banish Spirit, restore spirit’s Luck, Skill or Strength to initial -(if have codeword Devourer then(17) otherwise(18)) -(17)or the one to your right - 1d6 1-3=-1 will. Nightshade sk10 st8 4-6=Death Spider sk12 st9. Second Death(must win)(19) -(18)Alternatively, if you prefer, you could leave the catacombs altogether -(19)The feast hall -If you would rather remain unobserved and already have the Shade special ability. If you do not have this ability 2d6 <=will and 2d6 <=skill. If you fail either roll=1st Dread Knight sk9 st8 2nd Dread Knight sk8 st8=Third Death** otherwise start again -Move among the acrobats and mummers -or would you prefer to keep watching and see what befalls -If you want to follow the chamberlain -or will you wait and see what unfolds, just to be sure. Third Death -If you would rather not waste the hours left between now and dawn and want to approach the Keep -**If not -If you want to approach the moat-bridge on foot -if not -If not -Use the Spirit ability(20) Try to dodge past it 2d6 <=skill=(21) >skill=-1d6+1 stamina Hellfire Golem sk9 win 3 attack rounds(21) If die go to Fourth Death(21) -(20)or land again on the other side of the moat at the end of the bridge -(21)If you have the Spook ability and want to pursue this path -(if have met Cador(22) or Marrok(23)) -(22)turn 123 -If have codeword Braveheart written on your Adventure sheet(24)If not 2d6+2 <=will=(24) >will=-2 stamina(23) -(24)Host. Cador sk12 st20. 2 meals(25) -(23)turn 228 - 2d6+2 <=will=Host. Marrok sk11 st22. 6 meals(25) >will=cut go to Fourth Death(26) or Fifth Death -(26)turn 282 - 2d6+2 <=will=Host. Umberto sk10 st19. 2 meals(25) >will=2d6 <=luck=(27) >luck=go to Fifth Death -(27)turn 297 - 2d6-2 <=will=Host. Yorrick sk9 st17. 3 meals(25) >will=turn 213. Host. Falstaff sk7 st16. 3 meals(25) -(25)you can try to enter the Keep again -if not -If you have -Hellfire Golem sk9 st12(use 1 luck for extra damage)+1 luck. Hellfire(if stamina <C17/M19/U16/Y14 eat 1 meal) 6L-7L -Moat Monster sk9 st11(if stamina <C17/M19/U16/Y14 eat 1 meal) -or would you prefer to continue on your way just as you are -*=+30 to reference to access -turn 70 -turn 38 -turn 178 -Try to make it to the north-east staircase - 2d6 <=luck=(28) >luck=-2 stamina(if stamina <C17/M19/U16/Y14 eat 1 meal) 6L - 1d6=as below(after 3 attack rounds can escape with forfeit(28)) - 1-2=Dragonkind Bonebeast sk11 st12(if stamina <C17/M19/U16/Y14 eat 1 meal) - 3-4=Chimerical Bonebeast sk9 st11(if stamina <C17/M19/U16/Y14 eat 1 meal) - 5-6=Living Fossil Bonebeast sk10 st10(if stamina <C17/M19/U16/Y14 eat 1 meal) -and you want to pause for a bit of treasure-hunting - 2d6 three times. North-west spiral staircase -Use the Banish Spirit special ability -Codex Mortis -(28)If you would rather continue on your way -turn 86 -Oil of Midnight -Do you want to go left -(if no Host then(29) otherwise(30)) -(29)If you want to unlock the door and enter the room beyond -Do you want to enter the cell and see what you can do to help the Gaoler -Banish Spirit. Torment sk7 st7. +7 stamina to ghost-form. If this is the case and you have the Spook special ability -Host. Iago sk8 st18(31) -(30)If you would not rather be distracted and continue on your way deeper into the dungeons -(31)turn 446 -Attack the creature -Mutant Moon Dog sk9 st10(if stamina <C17/M19/U16/Y14 eat 1 meal) -Soul Shield +1 to skill even above initial level -(if you have Codex Mortis(32) otherwise(33)) -(32)if not you could try taking the turning to your left before the creature becomes aware - 2d6 <=skill=(34) >skill=Catacomb Crawler sk9 st7. Left(if stamina <C17/M19/U16/Y14 eat 1 meal)(34) -(33)If you are prepared to do this -Catacomb Crawler sk9 st7. Continue(if stamina <C17/M19/U16/Y14 eat 1 meal) -turn 141 -Do you want to lift the weapon from the statue’s clutches - 1st Deathling sk6 st3 2nd Deathling sk6 st2 3rd Deathling sk5 st3 4th Deathling sk6 st4 5th Deathling sk6 st3 6th Deathling sk7 st2(rules)Amethyst Blade -(34)Attempt to leap across to the other side - 2d6 <=skill=(35) >skill=(36) -(35)If you have the codeword Revenant or Host recorded on your Adventure Sheet and you are willing to make an offering of your own flesh to the Demon Gate - -2 stamina(if stamina <C17/M19/U16/Y14 eat 1 meal)(37) -(36)-1 will -(If have Codex Mortis and Oil of Midnight(38) otherwise(39)) -(38)If you have the Oil of Midnight with you and you want to use that(37) -(39)or you could try to fight it using one of the burning brands that light the chamber -Necros sk10 st12(if stamina <C17/M19/U16/Y14 eat 1 meal) -(37)Gatekeeper sk10 st10(if stamina <C17/M19/U16/Y14 eat 1 meal) -or will you fight every instinct that tells you to do otherwise and take your time -Use a Black Hourglass - 1st Dread Knight sk9 st9 2nd Dread Knight sk8 st9 - +1 luck. +2 will. Host 7L -Restore skill, stamina and luck to initial. 2d6 <=will=ok >will=start again -If not -(if have Codex Mortis(40) otherwise(41)) -(40)Use the Codex Mortis - -2 will. 2d6 <=will=ok >will=start again -(41)(if have Oil of Midnight(42) otherwise(43)) -(42)Use Oil of Midnight against it -If so -Shadow King sk11 st12(+1 attack strength. +4 damage)(if stamina=2 use 1 luck to reduce damage) 6L -(43)If you would rather simply face the Shadow King in hand to hand combat -If so -Shadow King sk13 st18(+1 attack strength. +4 damage)(if stamina=2 use 1 luck to reduce damage) 6L
Death paragraphs as referenced above
-First Death -If you none of these codewords recorded on your Adventure Sheet - 2d6 <=will=Devourer >will=Second Death -Restore skill, stamina and luck to initial. +1 will. Turn to paragraph written down
-Second Death -If you have the codeword Devourer -Restore stamina to half initial and add stamina points equal to will score -Sin Eater sk8 st8(if luck=7 use 1 for extra damage) If it wins attack round 1d6 6=-1 skill. Watcher Gate=Third Death 6L -Restore skill, stamina and luck to initial. +1 will. Turn to paragraph written down 7L
-Third Death -if you have just reached paragraph 250 -If you have the codeword Watcher -Will you say that you seek revenge -If you want to stick to your original answer -turn 98 -Black Hourglass -Return skill, stamina and luck to initial. +1 will. Judgement. Turn to paragraph written down
-otherwise -If you have the codeword Watcher -a second chance - 2d6 <=luck=Return skill, stamina and luck to initial. +1 will. Judgement >luck=Fourth Death -Turn to paragraph written down
-Fourth Death -If you have the codeword Judgement on your Adventure Sheet -Raise skill, stamina and luck to initial. +1 will. Endgame. Turn to paragraph written down
-Fifth Death -If you have the codeword Endgame written on your Adventure Sheet
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Post by champskees on Sept 14, 2018 1:50:52 GMT
Well, this has been a gruelling task. I had a look at the book again and quickly fell into the mindtrap created when you try to work out the optimal path for this book. Simply put, there are too many variables to consider to make a definitive argument on which path is best, however I persisted and reckon I have come pretty close. The program I wrote for this book is easily the most complex for the series thus far. Actually I wrote a few programs for it then started from scratch again. To give you an idea of the scenarios I tested, here is a screenshot of the 'switches' I used when determining paths. Basically there were a few big questions I wanted to answer: Should you inhabit Marrok or Cador?Cador consistently comes out on top, adding between 0-5% victory chance over Marrok. You don't need to Test your Will to possess him, he has Skill 12 instead of 11, and you can 100% reach him with no dramas. What path should you take to reach Valsinore Castle?
This was interesting. Basically, fighting the Flibbertigibbet and then proceeding to cross the bridge with the Ghostly Knight is by far the best option for a character with Skill 9 or less. Nothing else comes close. This is one of the biggest value adds for low skill characters. For higher skill characters, the hunting dogs should be encountered. The option you choose with the dogs doesn't make much of an overall difference. The golem should always be encountered. Should you take the Fool's Bargain with the witch?At the higher end of the skill spectrum, Fool's Bargain provides higher survival rates overall. The highest survival outcomes at ~98% were all achieved with Fool's Bargain. Should I take Korzen?Korzen is a no-brainer if you do not have Fool's Bargain. However, most outcomes suggested higher success rates with taking Korzen even if you have Fool's Bargain. Korzen makes many fights much, much easier. Should you grab the Codex Mortis?If you are a low skill character, yes you definitely should. With higher skill characters, it doesn't really make a difference. Killing the Bonebeast also provides you with a chance of obtaining some very useful items such as potions and provisions. SummaryUltimately, Night of the Necromancer is a very fair book that can still provide a challenge for the reader regardless of initial stats. The success percentages provided in the above solution do suggest some further optimisation is possible i.e high stamina characters appear to be at a slight disadvantage for skill 9+ characters. This is likely due to the death mechanic i.e. you gain vital Will points when you are killed, which helps in obtaining the Spook special skill and passing the final Test Will rolls. Finding ways for tougher characters to be killed earlier may improve success rates by ~0-2%. The program also did not account for Fizzgig using the Stamina spell, nor the use of potions acquired after defeating the Bonebeast. It also did not take into account mechanics such as Umberto and Bertild's special rules. This being said, overall I am more than satisfied with the relatively high outcomes reached.
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Post by johnbrawn1972 on Sept 14, 2018 11:14:23 GMT
Gibber Gibber
I have been looking for this for days. I have too much free time as Denis Leary might say.
I am currently at work so I cannot really reply in depth but the 'reasoning by attrition' using mathematics is hard to argue with.
Prima facie this looks wonderful. (Gnashes teeth in despair)
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Post by johnbrawn1972 on Sept 14, 2018 19:11:09 GMT
This is really hard but I must reply before my bottle of wine is guzzled and I cannot process language anymore.
I have printed off the amended solution and there is one glaring matter of interpretation, which I hinted elsewhere, could cause problems:
Main problem 1: I believe the only paragraph that specifically refers to Chamberlain Unthank as Lord is paragraph 250 so this is a mainstay of my thinking and drives my most considered solution. This necessitates the 'trilogy of Shade' route my solution takes along with the roll as a last resort. I believe the other routes do not refer as I want them to so I have ignored them. I cannot be definitive about this but I believe the 'reveal to Unthank' where the Death Knights almost certainly best you allows you to claim the Black Hourglass(if at the right stage)but does not allow you to answer the third question about "Who is the Lord of Valsinore?"(It could be Oriana in a secret ceremony unless you have been told at paragraph 250) This is my reasoning.
Main problem 2: Your interpretation makes the book too easy. I cannot believe 7/14/7 would be so close to a sure path to victory. My most considered 7/14/7 is possibly 10% but this makes more sense I would suggest. My 12/24/12 is, I believe, almost assured victory. So a graduated increase in possibilities is what the book is about and should be about.
So this is my considered reply. I have tried to obey the rules as best I can so the book makes sense and, I would suggest, it renders the difficulty of the book about right especially with minimal attributes.
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Post by champskees on Sept 15, 2018 3:16:09 GMT
This is really hard but I must reply before my bottle of wine is guzzled and I cannot process language anymore. I have printed off the amended solution and there is one glaring matter of interpretation, which I hinted elsewhere, could cause problems: Main problem 1: I believe the only paragraph that specifically refers to Chamberlain Unthank as Lord is paragraph 250 so this is a mainstay of my thinking and drives my most considered solution. This necessitates the 'trilogy of Shade' route my solution takes along with the roll as a last resort. I believe the other routes do not refer as I want them to so I have ignored them. I cannot be definitive about this but I believe the 'reveal to Unthank' where the Death Knights almost certainly best you allows you to claim the Black Hourglass(if at the right stage)but does not allow you to answer the third question about "Who is the Lord of Valsinore?"(It could be Oriana in a secret ceremony unless you have been told at paragraph 250) This is my reasoning. Main problem 2: Your interpretation makes the book too easy. I cannot believe 7/14/7 would be so close to a sure path to victory. My most considered 7/14/7 is possibly 10% but this makes more sense I would suggest. My 12/24/12 is, I believe, almost assured victory. So a graduated increase in possibilities is what the book is about and should be about. So this is my considered reply. I have tried to obey the rules as best I can so the book makes sense and, I would suggest, it renders the difficulty of the book about right especially with minimal attributes. Would you agree that Oriana cannot be the Lord of Valsinore, as she is in fact a Lady? I did test your solution originally and got around 15% for 7/14/7. Using my proposed solution gives around 60%, which is about 4x higher. That's huge. Applying the 250para suggestion will still yield a massive success rate IMO, I'll have to test it next week, but I would still expect over 50% for minimum stats. What I would suggest is that you have applied too much weight in your decision making to the acquisition of the various special skills. Only spook and shade are critical, and both can acquired with a successful 'test will' check. Even with just the one attempt of obtaining shade, you still have a higher chance of succeeding on that roll than you do when acquiring spook. The difference in success rates is not the interpretation of the rules, it is the decisions made in the book. Minimum stat characters should acquire the codex, should inhabit Cador, and should avoid the witch and Sleath altogether.
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Post by johnbrawn1972 on Sept 15, 2018 8:33:41 GMT
Even though I am feeling passionate about this I do not want to be a Rimmer.
I am applying modern criteria where the person could be non-binary. Nevertheless it could be anybody unless you have reached paragraph 250. This drives the acquisition of Shade in my solution which guarantees paragraph 250 so you can answer the third question.
This is hard because I do not have the mathematics but acquiring Shade is by no means a certainty if you are 8/15/7 because you have to make a skill roll as well as the will roll. My solution is voracious about acquiring will because you need to pass the will roll to acquire Spook. If you are forced to resort to Rest In Peace you are finished.
I must admit you have made some radical decisions as stated in the last paragraph. Are you suggesting to make the skill roll and will roll to acquire Shade as a last resort thereby bypassing my 1/2, 1/3, 1/6 rolls?
I feel we should obey the rules in the book but also what the spirit of the rules are about.
I think your mathematical attrition has allowed you to explore possibilities not open to me.
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Post by johnbrawn1972 on Sept 15, 2018 8:49:03 GMT
I have just noticed you should put the escape paragraph number in your bonebeasts section. You do not want to be fighting the bonebeasts again if you have lost Host.
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Post by johnbrawn1972 on Sept 15, 2018 16:15:57 GMT
Also the solution does not make sense, from a certain point of view, if you have a low initial skill and are fighting the bonebeasts how the heck can you best a 11 skill, 9 skill or 10 skill with an 8 skill character on the "low skill" path?
I have had a think about what you are doing and I think I see the point? You have just spooked Cador with 12 skill(say initial is 8/15/7 so "low skill" path) so it is best to fight here with the high stats advantage acquiring the Codex Mortis. This means you do not have to fight the Shadow King at the end. I believe this must be what you mean but it took a bit of interpretation. If this is right it is a very neat bit of reasoning.
If you do not take my somewhat 'higher-risk-to-acquire-Shade-at-the-beginning-path' I think I see the point of your solution because you have a 72% chance of passing the skill roll thereby acquiring Shade at the last possible moment. Your solution is 'all or nothing' winner takes all.
This reminds me of your Howl of the Werewolf solution where you devised different strategies depending on initial rolls.
One other thing you mentioned about generating deaths for higher initial rolls. If you looked at my 'more subjective' solution there are two very neat sections to use these being the stones at the beginning and also Umberto. They boost will and also allow you to acquire the Black Hourglass even if it is strictly superfluous though neater.
My 'subjective and objective' interpretation was to 'digest' the risky dice roll and risky fights at the beginning come what may. Even allowing the use of codeword Devourer only lessens the risk somewhat. I presume this is why my solution was a 15% risk. On your "low risk" path the first fight is at parity though you have a stamina advantage. If you fail the skill roll you are at a disadvantage. So you could easily acquire codeword Devourer though Watcher is less likely. I am not sure of the combined risk of the Skeletal Rats, Clinker and the pair of Spirit Hunters. For your solution to make sense you have to fight the Dread Knights and they will almost certainly best an 8/15/7 so generating another death. (If you have no codewords and fight the three Dread Knights to generate codeword Devourer there is no further opportunity to generate codeword Watcher before reaching paragraph 250.(Use Umberto?) I have not thought about this but I suppose there is no reason not to use the information at a later stage such as if the Hellfire Golem bests you if you fail the skill roll). The only thing that is clear is if you activate codeword Watcher prior to paragraph 250 then you will have a 58% chance of not acquiring codeword Endgame.
When you test will to acquire Spook you will have 91% or 97% chance of success. When you reach paragraph 250 you might well have any of the death codewords though Endgame would be game over. If you fail the 72% chance of success skill roll then if the Hellfire Golem beats you that is another death.
After ruminating over this I think the less risky beginning is the big difference though your 72% Shade skill roll is all or nothing. I am surprised your 7/14/7 is not a 72% chance of victory as the rest is almost a cake walk.
I have not calculated the mathematics so I never really challenged myself. My reasoning was a roll that is effectively the same as the boat roll in The Seven Serpents had to be avoided at all costs even though it could be used as a final Hail Mary so I was thinking in terms of outcomes not probabilities. Is this an answer?
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Post by johnbrawn1972 on Sept 16, 2018 13:54:31 GMT
I think the last paragraph above is the crux of the matter? I do not want to repeat myself.
Another thing I have noticed is if you acquire Shade from the witch and then enter the shrine and acquire Poltergeist this means you activate Poltergeist when entering the Cockcrow Inn so you cannot acquire Apparition as your solution assumes. I would suggest if you have Shade to visit the Cockcrow Inn first to bypass this problem as in my solution. If you fail the will roll you still have a chance to acquire Appariton at the Burgomasters house.
Also in my system the Boolean logic allows you to acquire Apparition from the Burgomasters house if your will is at least 12(with a low skill you do not want to be trapped by the nasty ensuing fight). The Boolean logic also has an option to gain a luck point. In your solution if you have entered the shrine you will have 12 will so you might as well exploit this.
Lastly if you have Appariton and Shade/Spectre why not take advantage and avoid the Skeletal Rats?
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Post by champskees on Sept 18, 2018 4:17:06 GMT
Hi John,
Thankyou for the feedback. Note that several parts of your walkthrough were used as the basis for mine, in particular with the Sleath sections.
The path corrections you have pointed out are correct; my code actually follows this to the letter, for some reason my solution did not, so I have made the amendments accordingly.
The 'Lord of Valsinore' issue still bugs me. Although Para 250 is indeed the only time Unthank is referred to as 'Lord', there is no explicit mention of him being the Lord of Valsinore. As the person addressing him (the Death Acolyte) does not necessarily hail from Valsinore, one could assume Unthank is perhaps Lord of another region/realm, or that 'Lord' is a title used in their cult, for example. If you know that Unthank has superceeded you and learn that he is the only one able to access the Keep (the main building in Valsinore), I think it is reasonable to assume he is now the Lord of Valsinore, as he is in complete control of the castle. If a player comes to that conclusion and makes a guess when asked that question, I think the intention is that they be rewarded rather than punished.
Also I had allowed a player to return to the Feast Hall to try again if they do not possess Shade and are subsequently dispatched by the Dread Knights, but this is not allowed. Solution amended accordingly. Statistically this has reduced success by about 0-2%.
All this being said, assuming you must reach Para 250 makes a minimal difference percentage wise (about 0-3% from initial glance), so my calculations will now require that you have reached Para 250. I have left the option of continuing in my solution though. Charts will show success based on reaching 250.
I will update percentages soon.
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Post by johnbrawn1972 on Sept 19, 2018 12:41:02 GMT
The percentages show something a bit strange namely you are at a disadvantage is you roll 12/24/12(13/25/12). This is why my other solution uses Rest In Peace to exploit this.
There is no definitive answer but it is Chamberlain Unthank who is now being addressed as Lord and this refers to the third question otherwise the third question would be impossible to answer. My decision is based on what the book is rather than some sort of semantic game about who might or might not be being referred to. Working backwards from the third question this is the only paragraph where the word is used hence my decision. Consequently this 'forced' my high risk strategy but I had not worked out the mathematics. Is there any way of working out a 72% roll when it is all or nothing? I do not know.
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Post by champskees on Sept 19, 2018 13:40:17 GMT
The percentages show something a bit strange namely you are at a disadvantage is you roll 12/24/12(13/25/12). This is why my other solution uses Rest In Peace to exploit this. There is no definitive answer but it is Chamberlain Unthank who is now being addressed as Lord and this refers to the third question otherwise the third question would be impossible to answer. My decision is based on what the book is rather than some sort of semantic game about who might or might not be being referred to. Working backwards from the third question this is the only paragraph where the word is used hence my decision. Consequently this 'forced' my high risk strategy but I had not worked out the mathematics. Is there any way of working out a 72% roll when it is all or nothing? I do not know. Maybe worth mentioning it's not a flat 72% because it isn't all or nothing (just). You have a 1/6 chance of obtaining Shade from the catacombs, so it's about 76.8%. I stress this script is still a fairly rough calculation and only provides an approximation. For example, it doesn't take into account a Potion of Luck/Skill/Stamina you may receive from the bonebeast encounter, nor does it optimise Fizzgig usage, or optimise death counts. A player would, in reality, have a higher chance of success because they can use items and powers more strategically. The percentiles are better used to compare between potential paths (and then further compare between books), rather than to determine an exact probability.
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