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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 12, 2013 0:12:25 GMT
masterchief:
Do you love this book so much you tuck it under the covers at night? Did you hate it so badly you used it as loo-roll? Let the world know!
~MC~
~ Vae Victis! ~
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 12, 2013 0:13:25 GMT
vastariner:
Ooo, I like this one. Seems to have been retconningly shoehorned into Titan!, especially when the Hachiman chaps and chapesses are meant to be an isolated society yet have dynastic links with the Isles of the Dawn (see Crimson Tide). And it's so bloody obviously Japan! At least with the Luke Sharp things nobody really knows much about the Khans or Turkestan.
Tourney of the Planes; nice idea, interesting planar encounters. A bit mis-guided, after all you can slay the fat frog yourself, yet if you send the Golden Company after them they get chomped up. Then again what do you expect when their major totem is a war fan? Or maybe it's not meant to be the sort you fold up, rather they're the military equivalent of the Bay City Rollers. And I'd feel a bit guilty at slaying the last-ever Giant Elk a bit earlier. But the planes are a thing that Titan has totally omitted, I for one would be interested in finding out more about the Necrotic Plane of Q'yaan as that's almost the only other mention of them in adventure. That and the Abyss.
The village of the Rokuro-Kubi...oog, freakout time. And if your Honour reaches zero, surely you would not kill yourself on the basis that you are honourless?
When one gets down to it, it's the common-or-garden kingdom-will-be-destroyed-and-guess-what?-we-are-sending-one-man-rather-than-an-army scenario, but artfully written, atmospherically embracing and unfolds like a paper crane. Good stuff.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 12, 2013 0:14:07 GMT
wilf:
I love the fact there are two different routes to take before you reach the Tourney. It's a very atmospheric book, too, but I do remember it being a very simple one, and you have to be a bit cloth-headed not to discover the secret of the Singing Death (assuming you reach that point).
I like SotS, but I'm not expecting it to give me too much trouble in my marathon. But then again, I'm the guy who got himself killed in the Citadel Of Chaos despite knowing that book pretty much inside out, so what do I know?
(Nah, the FF version of that catchphrase still needs work...)
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 12, 2013 0:14:51 GMT
sunil060902:
Yes I like this one very much. Don't forget that the Rokuro-Kubi should actually be termed Nake-Kubi.
For some bizarre reason I associate this book with the incidental music in the Paw Paw Bears, probably because I read it a lot during summer afternoons in 1988! I'll get me coat...
"Your progress has been watched, foul creature of destruction!"
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 12, 2013 0:15:42 GMT
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 12, 2013 0:16:28 GMT
hynreck:
Okay guys...
I'll admit it, I suck at riddles...
...especially riddles not in my native tongue. I'm always afraid it's going to be some dumb wordplay that I can't know about, something about double meaning and such.
Any clues you can give me (without spoiling it) for the Dragon riddle? The first one?
Any bits of help that could steer me in the right direction would be appreciated.
Thanks!
Speak in extremes, it will save you time.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 12, 2013 0:17:08 GMT
gallicus:
Okay guys...I'll admit it, I suck at riddles......especially riddles not in my native tongue. I'm always afraid it's going to be some dumb wordplay that I can't know about, something about double meaning and such.Any clues you can give me (without spoiling it) for the Dragon riddle? The first one?Any bits of help that could steer me in the right direction would be appreciated.Thanks! A different riddle with the same answer is asked of Bilbo by Golem in "The Hobbit". Is that enought of a clue? (328) Despite your best efforts, you find yourself decaying in front of a computer screen. Your adventure ends here.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 12, 2013 0:17:52 GMT
hynreck:
Thanks Gallicus.
Turns out, I've found the answers (both) through unconventional means ...that involves no cheating whatsoever. That was just weird. But all is well in the end, I guess.
Speak in extremes, it will save you time.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 12, 2013 0:18:45 GMT
hynreck:
This was another new one for me... and wow! I ended up very impressed. A perfect gamebook? Not at all (if there is such a thing) but did I enjoyed it? Immensely.
First thing first: This is another book that I skipped when I was young because of the cover/thematic subject. I was hardcore fantasy medieval when I was young, slay the dragon, destroy the undead; not so much sci-fi, pirates... or samurai. Boy, did I miss out on something back then, but then again, what a joy now to rediscover lost gems or missed opportunities.
It's been said by others, and probably better, but the atmosphere in this book is awesome. Both path offer a wide variety of adventures, none alike. Hell, the whole book is completely original - not the basic premise - but the encounters. Maybe a Japanese person, or someone versed in Japan's folklore - it's rich myths and legends - would find that book pretty much banal, ordinary stuff, but to me, it gave me a full impact. It's not just a matter of Japanese mythology, though. Any books in any settings can present original and devious encounters; it's not just a matter of cultural background. Some fail at that and present pretty ordinary tales, that, while enjoyable, are far from novelty. This book offer novelty and ingenuity with well-thought set pieces deliciously augmented by a, most of the time, spot-on atmosphere. I'm especially delighted as I thought Talisman of Death, the authors previous book, was full of imagination, too much perhaps, that didn't quite gel well together.
It reminded me of Lone Wolf, which may explain a bit why I liked it so much: you play a highly skilled and honorable warrior, with a strict code of conduct and disciplines to boot (you only choose one, but then again, this is only one book, not a whole series). The only thing I wish for is if that book could have had a director's cut of sort: the story flows very fast, from settings to settings, and sometimes it feels like bits are missing, especially near the end. It's possible that the story was supposed to be bigger (planed, anyway) but that in the grand scheme of keeping it in the 400 sections mold, it was trimmed of unnecessary parts... parts that would have made the book seemed more connected, perhaps. In any case, I wanted more, so that would have been nice.
New cover by Mel Grant, a take on the bridge with the undead Samurai, looks a-okay and the original looked fine too. Inside illos are overall nice. Alan Langford did a good job on most. The guy's got a tendency to always draw illos the same way, so he is easily identifiable, but still, some of his work is striking, so not too painful on the eyes.
It's funny how this book just rocketed itself on my favourite list out of nowhere, but nice. I'm not sure if it's gonna stay there long, got plenty more to read, but in all cases, it's definitely fallen on my good side forever.
Speak in extremes, it will save you time.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 12, 2013 0:19:50 GMT
jamus:
To be honest I found this one a little disappointing. I actually preferred "Talisman of Death".
Firstly I think it was a little too difficult. On the optimal path with the best special skill, you still need a SKILL of 10 or higher to have a good chance of making it through. Its still playable with a SKILL 9 (i'm estimating about 40% chance of success, depending on your stamina and luck) , but any lower and you can forget it.
Secondly the combat rules for fighting with two swords are poorly explained and unclear. I still don't really understand how you are meant to do it. In addition to this, there is a scenario where you enemy can't "fight back" for two attack rounds. How are we meant to interperet this? <MINOR SPOILER ALERT>
I also take issue with the Tatsu's second riddle. Surely the answer to this riddle is "secret"? Its a much better answer!
Finally the Tourney of planes really seemed out of place with the Japanese-style setting. Gameplay-wise it could have been better as well. Choosing the right creature to fight for you is really a matter of luck. And there are no varying degrees of success - either your ally will kill one of your enemies or will be killed without even harming your enemy.
Anyway the book certainly has its good points - the theme and style is well done and unique, the quality of the writing is excellent and I enjoyed most of the encounters up to the tourney of Planes. But I think its flaws really let this book down.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 12, 2013 0:20:29 GMT
oakdweller:
***SPOILERS AHEAD*** Back in '86 I had very little idea what a Samurai was. All I knew was that they were warriors from eastern Asia. (I faired better than one of my class mates who had been told by someone else that FF book #20 had been published and misheard a critical detail... "This time you're given a name! You're Sam O'Rye"). Getting my first taste of medieval Japanese culture was a mystifying experience which threw me into some situations that were an intriguing culture shock, whereas others left me feeling detached from the character and situation. I was continually buffeted between these two feelings, which made it hard to assess the overall book. Since then - partly due to an impressive collection of old Japanese artefacts at the Ashmolean, including a complete set of Samurai armour - I'm a bit more familiar with Japanese history. That fantastic monster wiki that others have mentioned has helped enormously too; having insight into the original mythology behind the likes of the Kappa and the Tatsu makes encountering them in Sword of the Samurai so much better. It's a pity that the confusion concerning Rokurokubi and Nukekubi happened, but considering that the former have a tendency to imitate the latter, its understandable, especially if the authors were under time pressure. (Was this corrected for the Wizard reprint by the way?) Another problem which makes comprehending the Hachiman culture murkier is that there are myths and legends from non-Japanese cultures mixed in. In standard fantasy FFs there are of course ideas cribbed from all sorts of cultures: Ancient Greek, Roman, Ancient Egyptian, Irish, Old English... Having such mixtures works fine usually, but when aiming for a culture and feel that is as specific as medieval Japan, it's definitely better not to include a phoenix (Egyptian/Greek), a kraken (Norse) or the 'English' Golden Company. There are plenty of Japanese myths that could have be used instead. The gaming aspect has two significant weaknesses. First of all, it's too short. Some paths are longer than others of course, but which ever way you turn it's only a hop, skip and a karumijutsu heroic leap until the Hub is reached. It wasn't until I mapped this one out last year that I realised just how limited the range of the geography is - the most direct route to the Hub only includes four potential encounters. It's also too easy, not the leisurely swim of the previous book, but still achievable in somewhere between two and four attempts (or one attempt for cheaters!) The only really tough part is the trek through the Spider Fens, an extremely dangerous place to explore, brimming with sudden death moments of Robin Waterfield proportions. (Again, this would be easy if you cheat, so my advice to anyone reading this who has never played Sword before is to play straight if you want to avoid the disappointing ease of victory). Whichever route is taken, by the time you're through the Hub, as long as you've found the secret of Singing Death and have at least medium stats, then defeating Ikiru is a breeze. There are plenty of solid characters from the outset, which help with the acclimatising to the unfamiliar culture. Everyone from the world-weary charcoal-burners to the frustrated ronin Ginsei are given sufficient coverage in the text to make Hachiman throb with life. The immoral Moichi is a bit different to temporary companions from past FF books, as he is an annoyance that matters of honour require you to take along with you. His master, the gross Lord Tsietsin, is a valuable inclusion too, being the type of sly bully-boy that is a pleasure to defeat. The Hub section uses up a large number of references to work, but thankfully it earns its keep by preparing the reader for an unusual battle, the manner of which is quite different to that used by any other FF book. Visiting the seven potential allies and persuading them to join you is a highlight of the adventure because the bizarre characters on offer are so varied. The battle against Dai-Oni's minions requires some trial and error (as well as willpower for cheat addicts) to win through, but selecting which allies to send into battle is the most entertaining FF moment since... Erm, well, riding that seahorse actually. I'm aware that this style of battling is distinctly Japanese and forms the basis for the Pokémon cartoons, but I don't know much about that because I found myself unable to sit through such puerile trash. Alan Langford's earthy, reliable style suits the text perfectly. The 'rokuro-kubi' (155) picture is my favourite, making these creepy unfortunates even more disturbing by having them face different directions. I'm also taken by the Kappa (201) (I love the secret weakness that these monsters have), the spectral Mukade (378) (no entry on the monster wiki for this) and the great serpent (97), but then reptiles are Langford's speciality.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 12, 2013 0:22:41 GMT
craze b0i:
I love this book. As others have alluded it is Titan but not Titan. I like the fact that you get to pick special fighting skills. Also the fact that unlike some books, where the incentive is to evade combat as much as possible, this book rewards you for taking risks and being heroic - notably via the award of honour points. Its quite a unique structure as well because in paragraph 1 you basically choose between 2 pathways and these 2 paths don't rejoin until the final showdown. The only gripe I have is that path 2 is significantly harder and you probably need Skill 12 to be sure of getting through, also path 2 does not award honour points which is a shame. I thought the hub section at the end was a really nice idea, maybe it has been done elsewhere in FF but I am not aware of it.
***SPOILER BELOW*** In the hub there is an element of 'trial and error' to pick the right combatant to each fight, but there is also a sort of pattern. Beast vs beast and humanoid vs humanoid. The Ki-Rin, a being of holiness, is obviously meant to be saved for the end. My FF reviews: z3.invisionfree.com/Orc__Goblin_Warpath/index.php?showtopic=29374
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 12, 2013 0:23:04 GMT
vagsancho:
Where do we find the item, the "tube", or "trumpet" that makes the tiger one's ally?
Razaak's apprentice
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 12, 2013 0:23:47 GMT
wilf:
You need to defeat the undead from the river, shown on the cover of the book (you'll encounter them on the same path that Lord Tsietsin is on).
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 12, 2013 0:24:11 GMT
vagsancho:
Are you sure? I haven't got the book here but if my memory doesn't fail, what we find there is a different object, a horn i think, with the form of a serpent, which we use to get the big snake as our ally and not the tiger.
Razaak's apprentice
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 12, 2013 0:24:28 GMT
sylas:
Wilf is correct. the serpent item comes from the elk on the other path.
Two Words
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 12, 2013 0:25:00 GMT
vagsancho:
I think that there is one thing in this book that gives a lot of frustration!! - the path where we find the rokuro kubi, we can only win 1 point of honour, so the maximum will be 4 points, and for that reason, we can not make the Ki-Rin as our ally!! am I mistaken about this?
Razaak's apprentice
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 12, 2013 0:25:17 GMT
greenspine:
So take the other path. It would be a problem if there were no way to get more than 4 Honour, but the fact that one of the viable routes through the book makes things a lot harder for you, including denying you one valuable ally, is hardly a problem.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 12, 2013 0:26:05 GMT
sylas:
It would have been nice if the two paths weren't so unbalanced in difficulty. You choose Game A or Game B right at the start. Choosing the safer route means a LOT of paragraphs are wasted on the other. It's not like you can accidentally go on the harder path either, not after a couple of attempts at least. Could have easily been a winner imo. But as it stands, it just feels like another wasted opportunity.
Two Words
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 12, 2013 0:26:21 GMT
greenspine:
I wouldn't call the paragraphs on the tougher route 'wasted'. They may not get as much attention as the easier path, but a player who wants a challenge may still give them a go. It's not an ideal set-up, but it's better than things like the incorrect routes in Temple of Terror and Armies of Death, which are completely redundant once you realise that there's no way of acquiring an essential item on them.
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Post by a moderator on May 24, 2014 14:00:03 GMT
My TUFFF playthrough:
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Jul 23, 2015 15:36:39 GMT
Strong Atmosphere. Magic Book. Very Realistic. Fantastic.
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Dec 19, 2015 2:05:21 GMT
I bet that in "real life", one day I'll be in the Hub. I feel it.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,678
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Dec 21, 2015 1:48:18 GMT
Vags, if you were stuck in the Hub, what 'helpers' would you call the assistance from and how would you convince them?
Actually, now that i mention it, what helpers would anyone else call? pretty sure i know who Vag's number 1 guy is going to be.
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Post by hynreck on Dec 29, 2015 13:41:54 GMT
Can we choose or invent our own, cause I can barely remember those from the book, well, their names, especially.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,678
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Dec 29, 2015 14:52:26 GMT
yeah. that's what i meant. (i.e. Vags numero uno would be the R-Man)
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Post by hynreck on Dec 29, 2015 19:42:34 GMT
Well, quick like that, and to stay in the gamebook world (as oppose to, let's say, asking help from the likes of Anakin Skywalker and Harry Potter), but still stretching beyond FF, I think I'd have pretty much all based covered if I asked Lone Wolf and Avenger to side by me...
Come to think of it, I'd most likely die, no matter how much asses I can kick in real life, but I would have at least some sort of solace thinking on how those two are then going to annihilate whatever comes at them.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,453
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Dec 29, 2015 20:25:17 GMT
Hey I'd want Razaak on my team, along with the Night Dragon, Titanium Cyborg, Zagor Demon and Lizardman Champion.
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Post by deadshadowrunner on Dec 30, 2015 3:57:05 GMT
Hey I'd want Razaak on my team, along with the Night Dragon, Titanium Cyborg, Zagor Demon and Lizardman Champion. I would rather have the adventurer who beat Razaak in Crypt on my team
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Post by Pete Byrdie on Dec 30, 2015 11:10:05 GMT
Hey I'd want Razaak on my team, along with the Night Dragon, Titanium Cyborg, Zagor Demon and Lizardman Champion. I would rather have the adventurer who beat Razaak in Crypt on my team I think it's been firmly established on this forum that no adventurer ever beat Razaak. Not by the rules, anyway.
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