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Post by thealmightymudworm on Nov 19, 2013 15:14:11 GMT
From TUFFF (a year after the opening post)... Hmm. Interesting that no one has posted about this book at all. I would have said this is a fan favourite, for sure! Not just because it's written by the ridiculously talented Stephen Hand, is illustrated by the equally excellent (although a little scrappy here, although I really like the ones opposite 105 and 118) Martin McKenna, but also for the excellent plot, the creepy setting and that cover that makes you just want to pick it up and play it. It also has some unique encounters - The Kauderwelsch Monster, the Possessed Hand, and of course the Shadow Warriors themselves. I also thoroughly enjoyed the follow up (of sorts), Moonrunner. ~ Vae Victis! ~
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Nov 19, 2013 15:15:24 GMT
From TUFFF... *SPOILERS AHEAD!* The encounters were really cool, but I also liked its complex structure. For example that opening sequence where you have to escape the city - there are so many different options and outcomes depending your choices, what you decided to buy, and luck with the dice. It made replaying the book from the beginning fun, instead of tedious. Its pretty difficult in terms of stats though - and a lot depends on that roll to determine the life force of the Spear of Doom. On one of my later attempts I rolled a 12/24/11 character (with gold 19), but then rolled a life force of only 6. I fought through all the remaining Shadow Warriors, but by the time I reached Voivod I had only 2 stamina remaining, and was slain in the first attack round! (It was the 1st Shadow Warrior with his crazy martial arts skills who really damaged me). One thing I don't understand is the need for obtaining the number code. I mean, we as reader need it to find the appropriate reference, but why would your character? Why wouldn't he simply be able to follow the map to the Battle Plains? Why does he need to know this mystical number? It kind of reminds me of Appointment with FEAR, where you have to know the day of the week in order to win - we as the reader may not know, but your character certainly would! And Masterchief I definitely agree with you about the cover - there is something about it that makes you want to play it.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Nov 19, 2013 15:19:04 GMT
From TUFFF... This is another new book for me, but one that I had noticed quite a few times in my youth due to that catchy cover, quite well done. I'm jumping ahead a bit, but for quite a long time I thought those scarecrows were the shadow warriors. So when I first met the SW in the Magyaar Pass, I thought, well they look nothing like those on the cover, so much for an accurate representation! Then, of course, I thought: well maybe there's something else to it that I will find later... and I did found the answer I was looking for, when I got to that part of the book. Inside illos still well done by McKenna, an appropriate choice for that type of story. Stephen Hand displays a vivid imagination, slightly twisted and macabre, with lots of different and original settings, some more or less cleverly disguised as hommage to old horror movies. Just loved the mash up of all those dark themes and elements. Well done. More for fun than for nitpicking (but still it is), there's a few blunder in there, though easily forgivable in view of the overall quality of the book: as pointed by Greenspine, Hengmar (that wizard in Royal Lendle) must be the quickest writer in history, able to write about his own abduction while it is happening. At the very least we were spared the: "oh no! they've plunged a blade into my flesh, I feel my life draining away pointlessly!" kind of even worst ending. Here Stephen Hand falls victim to the nonsense cliché ending often plaguing Lovecraftian-style stories. At the very least, his fault was spread only over a small paragraph, while other Lovecraft wannabes end whole stories on that false note (don't get me wrong, Lovecraft himself usually avoids this kind of mistake).
Also, there's at least one Sky Lord moment in there, to tarnish and otherwise shiny book. It's in the beginning, when you get to the public ranters part. You are being pursued, yet you can't help yourself and stop to hear some ranting lunatics. Even worst, if you don't pick up disgruntled man number 1 first, you can stay there and listen to all 3 people rant for what seems to be an eternity, with no options to just bug off. It's a check your brain at the door moment, for sure. Does that strikes you as familiar?
Remember bumbling idiot Sky Marshall Homer in Sky Lord? How, while being pursued by dangerous life-threatening blobs, he couldn't stop himself from playing a game or two in the gymnasium? Yeah, could you wait a bit, I gotta go run after a squirrel. .... ....
....
Okay I'm back. I'll agree with Jamus also on the map and number details at the end. It's obviously just a way to avoid cheating, the code and numbers replacing the keys with the numbers in Warlock, but it's still doesn't make much sense and takes off a bit of shine on the ending product. Still, I had a blast playing this book, and didn't mind starting over after failing the first time, because I knew different choices would lead to other great things that I had previously missed. And to tell the truth, I'm already looking forward for another playthrough, somewhere down that yellow brick road (aww come on! too cheesy).
So I'll leave now, while avoiding the tomatoes. Speak in extremes, it will save you time.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Nov 19, 2013 15:19:40 GMT
From TUFFF... Maybe the ranter bit is an homage to Life Of Brian, where Brian escapes the Romans by becoming a ranter? Or the PC decides blending in with the crowd might be a better idea than running away?
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Nov 19, 2013 15:20:29 GMT
From TUFFF... That's a good catch for Life of Brian. Hadn't thought of that.
But I'm pretty sure it's described in the scene that the hero just can't resist listening to the ranters even though he is fully aware of being pursued. Otherwise, blending in for a bit in a crowd is not such a bad idea; in this case, perhaps, just poorly worded. Speak in extremes, it will save you time.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Nov 19, 2013 15:21:23 GMT
From TUFFF... Here Stephen Hand falls victim to the nonsense cliché ending often plaguing Lovecraftian-style stories. At the very least, his fault was spread only over a small paragraph, while other Lovecraft wannabes end whole stories on that false note (don't get me wrong, Lovecraft himself usually avoids this kind of mistake). The worst example of such writing I have ever encountered is in the otherwise pretty decent The House on the Borderland by William Hope Hodgson. There's a sequence where some malign influence takes control of the narrator's body, compelling him to approach the door and unbolt it to let in the hideous beasts outside - and he's writing about it even as the evil entity forces him to cross the room!
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Nov 19, 2013 15:23:28 GMT
From TUFFF... lol, that's pretty funny.
Imagine a modern version: Ugh, getting hard, ngh, to type on my iphone...
I'll have to dig out my books on all things Lovecraft, I don't remember reading that one. And since I'm only half way done, it's probably in the batch I've yet to read. It gets tedious, sometimes, you know... Speak in extremes, it will save you time.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Nov 19, 2013 15:23:53 GMT
From TUFFF... Hope Hodgson died in 1917, before the bulk of Lovecraft's stories came out, so he's not one of the imitators. He wrote in a similar vein, though. His best works (IMO) are The Boats of the Glen Carrig and The Ghost Pirates. Worth reading, if you can track them down.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Nov 19, 2013 15:24:31 GMT
From TUFFF... Duh. That would explain why I had not read him, if he is not among Lovecraft's Cthulhu Mythos "friends" like Derleth, Bloch and all the other smaller fishes...
I'll keep an eye out for that particular name, though. Speak in extremes, it will save you time.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Nov 19, 2013 15:27:50 GMT
From TUFFF... In order that this thread can go back to being about LotSW, I've put further comments on Hope Hodgson here.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Nov 19, 2013 15:30:35 GMT
From TUFFF... I just picked this one up first time in 20 years. Although I remembered quite a lot of the scenes I did not remember the specifics like which option to take and which item to buy etc. This book is fantastically written and with great illustrations. The one tiny flaw, as already alluded, is the business about the book of numbers. Also there is a small consistency error between text and map, going south of Gront the text describes a fork branching south-west - whereas the map shows this as an east-west crossroads with the east track leading to the stone circle. But I don't want to dwell on this too much given the rest of the book is so well written. On my first game I didn't even make it out of Royal Lendle. In running away from the tax-man I was cornered by Bandolph (spelling?) and his goons who did alot of damage, then I got clobbered by the black-robed man and his agitators at Speakers Corner. On my second game I made it all the way through to the end battle, but was very low on stamina when I faced Voivod and was unlucky with Spear of Doom - thus resulting in my death. (I took the decision that I could not eat provisions in between fighting Shadow Warriors & fighting Voivod since it was all part of the same battle.) Also worth noting I lost my weapon early on and did not find any options to acquire a new one, so I spent most of the book fighting bare handed. I felt the author could given the player more options try and pick up a new weapon. Apart from that it was all good fun. Looking forward to my third play... My FF reviews: z3.invisionfree.com/Orc__Goblin_Warpath/index.php?showtopic=29374
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Nov 19, 2013 15:31:46 GMT
From TUFFF... Sword, axe, or mace as weapon options are still more of a choice than just a sword. This book is actually one of the more balanced FF books. There's a path that lets you win through even with minimum stats. So anything more than minimum should be a doddle, technically speaking. Two words
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Nov 19, 2013 15:33:44 GMT
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Nov 19, 2013 15:37:20 GMT
From TUFFF... There's a path that lets you win through even with minimum stats. So anything more than minimum should be a doddle, technically speaking. I have to disagree there Sylas. I think you need good initial stats AND a good Spear of Doom score. That final confrontation is just too tough. I think maybe if skill range was limited to 9-11, and Spear of Doom range limited to 8-10, then I might call it reasonably balanced... If you're looking for a good weapon, I recommend saving up for the mace in the final village.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Nov 19, 2013 15:38:49 GMT
From TUFFF... The chance is slim but not impossible, though you will need to roll at least 5 for the Spear of Doom. There was a walkthrough somewhere but I think it was only on the old forum. If you want, I can show you how it can be done though I'd rather you found the true path yourselves. Two Words
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Nov 19, 2013 15:39:56 GMT
From TUFFF... Ah yes I see now there is a weapon-seller in Shattuck. When you arrive at Shattuck the text states "where will you seek for the man of numbers?" On my game I looked for him at the main square first, meaning I couldn't go back to explore the other 2 locations. My FF reviews: z3.invisionfree.com/Orc__Goblin_Warpath/index.php?showtopic=29374
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Nov 19, 2013 15:41:28 GMT
From TUFFF... A little help, please, in a passage of this book that it is difficult to understand what the author wants to say:
In the paragraph 183, in the fight with the fourth shadow warrior, what he wants to say is that if we do not have luck in the beginning we loose 6 strength points and 1 skill point, and then we do a normal fight, or, he wants to say that in each time that the warrior wins an attack, we loose 6 strength points and 1 skill point?
I think it is the first one, but i'm afraid it's not very clear to me. Razaak's apprentice
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Nov 19, 2013 15:43:50 GMT
From TUFFF... Hi I'd say that if you have no weapon AND you fail your Luck check, you lose 6 Stamina and 1 Skill. If you have a weapon AND you fail your luck check, you lose the weapon because it is knocked from your grasp (but you don't lose Stamina or Skill). If you pass the Luck check, you avoid the attack and nothing happens. AFTER you have resolved the Luck check, you then fight the fourth shadow warrior.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Nov 19, 2013 15:45:36 GMT
From TUFFF... Hi
I'd say that if you have no weapon AND you fail your Luck check, you lose 6 Stamina and 1 Skill.
If you have a weapon AND you fail your Luck check, you lose the weapon because it is knocked from your grasp (but you don't lose stamina or skill).
If you pass the Luck check, you avoid the attack and nothing happens.
AFTER you have resolved the Luck check, you then fight the fourth shadow warrior. The weapon isn't knocked from your grasp; it is destroyed. You can't recover it. For the duration of the battle you will be fighting unarmed (-1 Skill). You may look for another weapon if you survive the combat. Two Words
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Post by a moderator on May 24, 2014 13:24:12 GMT
My UFFF playthrough:
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Jul 23, 2015 15:50:38 GMT
A fantastic book. Great atmosphere! Very realistic!
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Dec 7, 2015 14:50:05 GMT
A good book. However, for my taste, there is something wrong with Voivod - I do not like to deal with good and evil as a kind of game.
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Post by deadshadowrunner on Dec 8, 2015 3:58:18 GMT
For my taste,there is something wrong with someone I could name.
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Dec 8, 2015 16:17:09 GMT
For my taste,there is something wrong with someone I could name. I would not say something I would say a lot.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2015 21:37:41 GMT
All this fighting fantasy talk just breaks my cold, callous heart.
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Dec 15, 2015 17:04:38 GMT
No man has in himself a switch that turns him - good in bad or bad in good. I do not like Voivod.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,457
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Dec 15, 2015 21:21:07 GMT
Wasn't Voivod an evil entity that possessed an innocent man? How is that like a switch?
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Dec 16, 2015 0:36:38 GMT
Wasn't Voivod an evil entity that possessed an innocent man? How is that like a switch? No. I do not like Voivod. Materialisticaly speaking is not a case of possession. It's different. Possession is when a demon takes possession of Kieran's body or Vagsancho's body and acts through him. In Voivod, his primary form was not the form of the man but his own form. I do not like the switch between good and evil. It's tasteless.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,678
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Apr 24, 2016 19:49:54 GMT
i just read LotSW again and i was pleasantly surprised that i discovered something new even though i thought i'd examined the book to bits already. i don't recall it being mentioned but it's a minuscule detail i never noticed before: just before you bump into Quinsberry Woad (some reference to a Queensbury Road maybe?) an annoying shyster tries to sell you a mongoose paperweight but you tell him where to shove it. later on in the adventure, you may be captured by Doktor Kauderwelsch. if you get free, one of the items you can grab on your exit happens to be a mongoose paperweight. i know it's nothing major but i just love this bit of detail and the fact that the conman does okay selling paperweights. i may have to reread it again just to see if i missed anything else.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,457
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Apr 25, 2016 11:56:05 GMT
It's little details like that that make Stephen Hand's books (particularly the latter 2) feel so rich in terms of setting.
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