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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 20, 2013 13:21:33 GMT
From TUFFF... I've just completed this, I think for the first time; I must have bought it and never got round to reading it first time around! Three failed attempts before I managed it:
- Devoured by a GREEL in the Eelsea somewhere west of Port Blacksand on my third(!!) reference, although in my defence I was hampered somewhat by some truly dreadful Skill 7, Stamina 20, Luck 7 character rolls;
- Bitten to death by a pair of reanimated FLYING SKULLS in the bowels of the Mist Crypts, under a mountain capped with a peak of fool's gold; and,
- Sliced to pieces by the giant axe of the altitudinous and offputtingly oleaginous frost giant BAGGHURD. The ending itself was surprisingly easy once I'd picked up the three enchanted items. Hardest part? Overcoming the HIGH PRIEST in Carnex before I'd gathered any helpful equipment. That bugger had me down to 1 stamina point just before I finished him off. Pah, I was letting him win to make it interesting...
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 20, 2013 13:23:12 GMT
From TUFFF... Mmm...I guess your Skill was at least 10 then. Two Words
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 20, 2013 13:24:49 GMT
From TUFFF... I rolled Skill 10, Stamina 18, Luck 10 at the start and spent both of the additional points on Skill to bring it up to 12. I can't think of another book offhand where you get additional points to spend on your attributes at the start. To be honest, there's a lot of unmodified Test(s of) Your Skill throughout the book, and when you know you can't fail them it does make progression much easier, if a little dull.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 20, 2013 13:26:47 GMT
From TUFFF... You neglected to notice that the additional points MUST go into separate attributes. I'm afraid you might have to redo the book from the start. Not to worry though, the book is possible to complete with far weaker stat. rolls than yours. (Check Solutions later if need be) Two Words
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 20, 2013 13:27:12 GMT
From TUFFF... Aaargh you are right - I must have just read right past that. Oh crumbs, I'm going to have to have another go.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 20, 2013 13:28:52 GMT
From TUFFF... My favourite FF book of all time. I love it ~ Vae Victis! ~
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 20, 2013 13:29:43 GMT
From TUFFF... As a little hint, don't go by sea. It may take less time, but it exposes you to unnecessary risk - the land route can be MUCH more productive after a few tries and experimentations.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 20, 2013 13:30:26 GMT
From TUFFF... I completed this book for the first time last night. Go me! Couldn't believe how little effect the Time score had on the Night Dragon's Stamina - what a waste of Time (pun intended). Nemesis and Honour are also pretty pointless. The little twist at the end was kinda fun though it does perhaps raise more questions than it answers. The dreamtime is also a decent idea but it seemed like a rehash of Mordraneth's Empire of Illusions from Stealer of Souls. One major problem with the book seems to be that unless you blunder straight to the final fight, the Night Dragon himself is a complete pushover. Only weak characters will find him tricky and they're extremely unlikely to get that far anyway. Also why are there A=1 B=2 devices in the middle of the fight? Really breaks up the tension (and is it just me or does the one on section 388 send you to the wrong section). Still this book has some of the best illustrations in the series. And God I love that cover.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 20, 2013 13:31:16 GMT
From TUFFF... For me, this is the best Fighting Fantasy has to offer. I don't know if anything will ever replace Night Dragon as my favourite FF - excellent, lengthy paragraphs full of descriptive text and atmosphere, plenty of gameplay and stats to get your teeth into, and you can do really well in it - and finish it - with someone who has average stats. Plus the illustrations and cover are immense! ~ Vae Victis! ~
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 20, 2013 13:32:16 GMT
From TUFFF... I love this one too. It's a long adventure, but it sure keeps you captivated (unlike Revenge of the Vampire, which always bores me to death after the wonderful first scene at the monastery). Lots of great ideas here, and lots of Dragons, a cool thing if there was ever any. If there's a low point in there, I think it's the Mist Crypts, where you get the Sword: just an average dungeon with next-to-no originality. (And dammit! The French edition has its illustrations badly printed, like they wanted to spare money on ink. I should try and get scans of the originals someday...)
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 20, 2013 13:36:32 GMT
From TUFFF... After I decided to buy the original editions, Night Dragon was the first one that I got my hands on. My all time favorite FF book is Vault of the Vampire, and that is the only book written by Keith Martin ever published in my country. So, the fact that Night Dragon was written by the same author than my favorite book, plus the fact that it is very well regarded by fans in general, made my expectations to be very high. And I wasn't disappointed. Starting with the cover, I think I can firmly say that this is my favorite of the entire series. It was about time for a dragon to have a major part in some FF story (and not a "common" dragon at that!), and such a creature is amazingly depicted on the front cover by Tony Hough. The internal illustrations are very good too, I wouldn't place them among the top of the series but certainly above average (even though I didn't like the mirror demon). Also a thick book, with solid writing and lots of description by the author. About the plot: the old "we must save Allansia" storyline had already been largely explored by the time that installment # 52 of the series hit the shelves in bookstores, but at least Keith Martin got something right in this regard: if all Allansia is about to succumb to some unspeakable danger, make an opponent who is really up to the task, and not just another necromancer wannabe. Gameplay is also well balanced here, even though the combat rules were unnecessarily complicated at times, in my opinion. The items you must find reminded me a lot of VotV. In particular, I really enjoyed exploring the dwarf mines, that was the scenario I liked the most. The first item I went after was the sword, because I knew it would be the one with the highest bonus. I was just a little disappointed at finding it simply lying against a wall (ok, ok, it was being guarded by an enemy, but hidden inside a book is much better!). Strangely enough, I won this book in my second attempt! And in the first time I was killed right at the beginning, having my throat slit by three gray-cloaked men just outside Blacksand. I think this is the first 100% cheat-free victory I've ever had (as a kid I cheated a lot, now I try not to cheat, but you know, sometimes...). Albeit that, I really don't think it is an easy book. I was lucky enough to roll a 6 for my skill and still I almost got killed in combat more than once (for example, against the Night Dragon I had to use the magic power in the shield to restore my stamina). I also liked that, although the side quests are intrinsically linked to your final goal, you still have a lot of freedom when choosing where to go and when. And you don't even need to visit all the places to win (I skipped Carnex). Also, time track, honour and nemesis points seemed pretty pointless. The concept of the nemesis points is interesting, but for most of the adventure I had just 1 point, and I didn't run into any stalker along the way, when searching for the items. All in all, we have a winner here. The final battle is really epic, and the book leads you there with ever increasing levels of excitement. Another great goal scored by Keith Martin!
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 20, 2013 13:39:47 GMT
From TUFFF... Two Keith Martin in a row. That actually gives a great perspective on the style of this particular author, though it’s a bit late in his cycle for that, I’ll agree. Nevertheless, I shall start with the basic as this is a new book for me, one that I don’t particularly recall from my youth. Awesome cover though, which is why I think that I would remember it if I saw it back then. Awesome. Let’s keep going that way, shall we? Inside illos by Tony Hough are superb in their exquisite details, especially all those monsters. Take a look at that Stench Ghoul for example, isn’t it gloriously disgusting? Where Mr Hough doesn’t fare quite as well, though, is in the human element: his characters are cartoonish caricature, fine in themselves I suppose, but unrealistic and not quite to my liking. On the other hand, if you take a look at Harlequin (famously masquerading under the Arlequin pseudonym) he does make for some creepy-ass memorable characters. Add two lines on the lower jaw of that particular character and you’ve got yourself one of those spooky ventriloquist dummy. Also, that first illo about Blacksand is hilarious : can you count how many people are emptying their bladders against the buildings? And who isn’t happy about it? This could be some kind of a game. I’m stretching it a little, granted, but look at it… I can’t be the only one thinking this. For the main book itself, gameplay-wise, it’s your typical Keith Martin experience: small hub worlds with sometimes the possibility to backtrack, lots of items and informations to keep track of and a plethora of enemies all with their exclusive rules. All this does not make a good book for the beginners out there, but it’s fine: there’s already plenty of good ones for that in the FF canon. As for the story, it’s your usual Martin eccentricities and craziness, but lots of fun nonetheless. I wasn’t as engrossed with it as I was with Island of the Undead, but still quite nice. And what a badass nemesis. It seems that Mr. Martin wanted to bring out the baddest of the bad with this one: not only in terms of awesomeness, but in terms of sheer stats. Reports from my fellow players are that the Night Dragon isn’t so bad if you get the bonuses you are supposed to get anyway, but still, this is one terrifying beast. Plus, it’s surrounded by all sorts of nasties that aren’t too shabby either. All of it seems a bit misleading at times. Maybe the book should have been named Night Demon instead, as not only the main dragon seems more like a demon under guise, but all of it’s children, Stalkers and all, looks more like demons than otherwise. Some are even rotting, akin to undead. Plus the cultists surrounding the Night Dragon reminds me of Satan’s worshippers and the like. Maybe it’s my lack of cultural knowledge towards dragons responsible for my puzzled state of mind. If so, I’m sure some of you fellow readers will enlightened me. Things of note: I’m not sure how much Mr Martin wanted the last mountain to be a climb up the dragon itself, going into it’s head and such… Sure enough, there’s enough passages written to fit that intention - it’s even explained somewhere that this is indeed the case. But some other parts feels like Mr Martin wanted instead to describe a sort of womb-like environment where the dragon was nursed into being. A real womb, you know, not a head-womb. Just read that passage (I’m sorry I don’t have the section in hand) where you have to go through a bizarre valve made of skin flaps with a knob of flesh protruding on top of it… sounds to me like the original intent was to write the word vulva and not valve… which would have made a realistic description of going into the womb albeit a graphic one clearly unacceptable for the kiddies out there, the original main target audience.
In any case, a good book, though recommended only to the vets out there, as for most of Keith Martin’s work. Speak in extremes, it will save you time.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 20, 2013 13:54:32 GMT
From TUFFF (second link changed to my best guess - original dead)... Ah, Night Dragon.This was one of the books i was looking forward to getting my hands on back when i rediscovered Fighting Fantasy. Reviewers seemed to like it, and the monster on the cover looked like what you would get by attaching a facehugger to a dragon.
So what's it actually about? Well, for several years, the Twilight's Hammer cult have been nursing their master Deathwing back to health, and he's now ready to cast his shadow over all of Aze...oops, wrong fantasy universe, but the similarities are more than superficial.
Anyways, this is one awesome gamebook. It's one of those that really sucks you in and doesn't let you out until you have beaten it or been beaten.
Highly recommendable to those who haven't read it yet.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 20, 2013 13:55:24 GMT
From TUFFF... Hmm never liked this one, I'm not a big fan of Keith Martin anyway, an author way too overrated in my view.... Well except for Vault of the Vampire which was a work of genius I'll give you that.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 20, 2013 13:56:59 GMT
From TUFFF... Ah, Night Dragon.This was one of the books i was looking forward to getting my hands on back when i rediscovered Fighting Fantasy. Reviewers seemed to like it, and the monster on the cover looked like what you would get by attaching a facehugger to a dragon.
So what's it actually about? Well, for several years, the Twilight's Hammer cult have been nursing their master Deathwing back to health, and he's now ready to cast his shadow over all of Aze...oops, wrong fantasy universe, but the similarities are more than superficial.
Anyways, this is one awesome gamebook. It's one of those that really sucks you in and doesn't let you out until you have beaten it or been beaten.
Highly recommendable to those who haven't read it yet. I've actually wondered about the parallels with Warcraft. In fact when you look at it a lot of things we find in FF can be seen in Warcraft.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 20, 2013 13:57:48 GMT
From TUFFF... I've actually wondered about the parallels with Warcraft. In fact when you look at it a lot of things we find in FF can be seen in Warcraft. So, who's copying whom? The more beautiful and pure FF is – the more satisfying it is to corrupt it.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 20, 2013 13:59:23 GMT
From TUFFF... Well Night Dragon dates from 1993; the earliest Warcraft release is given as 1994 on Wikipedia.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 20, 2013 13:59:46 GMT
From TUFFF... To be honest, I don't think the idea of a cult bringing their evil master back to life was new in 1993.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 20, 2013 14:00:25 GMT
From TUFFF... Yep, all those stories are old as hell. I strive to enjoy what an author does with the ideas given to him by the world instead to look for the rare original new idea.
Often what we think is new is just something we weren't yet aware of. Speak in extremes, it will save you time.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 20, 2013 14:00:58 GMT
From TUFFF... If you didn't hear a bell ringing, when you were told that the Stalkers were made by mutating abducted dragon hatchlings with dark magic, then you start reading Dragonlance right away, young man!
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Post by a moderator on May 24, 2014 12:07:01 GMT
My TUFFF playthrough:
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Post by nathanh on May 24, 2014 13:48:35 GMT
Rules/fair play question. In Rentarn, you are given the option to essentially spend 2 Time Track to gain 3 provisions "if at any time you get desperately short of food". Since "desperately short" isn't defined, a strict rules interpretation is that you can do this whenever you like. Thus, since Time Track is broadly irrelevant and Provisions are quite handy, the optimal approach seems to be to refresh your provisions to 12 in Rentarn at the cost of at most 8 time track (and indeed refresh your health to maximum through Provisions as well).
This seems far from intentional. How desperate do people think desperately should mean? 0 Provisions? Maybe 2 or so?
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Jul 23, 2015 15:44:28 GMT
Great Atmosphere. Fantastic Book. The dragon has not personality however.
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Post by hynreck on Jul 30, 2015 14:14:21 GMT
Poor dragon. You must give it a chance to catch up on Facebook and all that shit.
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Post by slloyd14 on Feb 3, 2019 8:28:40 GMT
I'm trying to convert Night Dragon to an AFF adventure and I was wondering if I could get help from the Fighting Fantasy hive mind - can anyone tell me the locations of Rentarn, Carnex, Ismater, the giants' village, the dragon conclave, Sharndale, the Mist Crypts, the Great Mine and the Night Dragon's lair? I could probably work them out based on the book, hut I was wondering if someone had already made a map. I also want to compare their locations to where the Snow Witch lives (as she has a dragon who might have information) and the area around Sardath (as the heroes could get help from Corinthus the storm giant, the ranger who is the hero of the book or even the dark elves)
Many thanks!!!
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Post by babbagefart on Feb 21, 2019 16:19:22 GMT
I'm trying to convert Night Dragon to an AFF adventure and I was wondering if I could get help from the Fighting Fantasy hive mind - if someone had already made a map. Download this: Atlas of Titan by Simon Osbourne. It's mind-bogglingly good for fans of the Fighting Fantasy world. Just allow it a couple of minutes to load as it's 300+ pages. outspaced.fightingfantasy.net/PDFs/Atlas_of_Titan.pdf
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Dec 5, 2019 1:13:28 GMT
I am not a grand fan of night dragon. However, i miss it.
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Post by Charles X. on Jul 22, 2021 20:02:30 GMT
Fan, but don't feel the Night Dragon skull fight worked. By that point I was so strong it felt like taking on a Jib-jib, especially so if you consider the Night Dragon combat bonuses with your weapons to be applicable to the skull.
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Post by Charles X. on Aug 7, 2021 10:25:50 GMT
So, do people feel it's worth taking the detour to Carnex? I've no idea whether it'd be best to (dependent on the Avatar), I often go for it because I find I'm running out of provisions and I find the big backpack handy.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,677
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Aug 7, 2021 17:25:32 GMT
Carnex is the hardest of the locations even if your stats are fairly high. The fight with the High Priest is really unfair in comparison with the other 'boss' battles due to the sheer damage he can inflict. The only useful items it provides is the bigger backpack and the Tome of the Reaches - the only way to get the Harlequin's winged boots. The negation of the Skill drain is handy in the Night Dragon's Lair but the lore on the Undead Chieftain to gain the damage boost in the Mist Crypts isn't necessary. You'd fare better if you didn't visit Carnex but going there feels more complete.
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