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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 8, 2013 17:52:12 GMT
From TUFFF (a year after the opening post)... Oh! Both of Hands's solo adventures haven't been talked about!
So, which do you prefer, LotSW or Moonrunner? It's a tough call for me... Moonrunner is excellently written and, like a lot of Green's books, uses codewords to good (and bad!) effect.
I only wish Moonrunner was longer... There's so much non-linearity the pages are used up quite quickly to store the different threads you can go down. ~ Vae Victis! ~ |
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 8, 2013 17:53:26 GMT
From TUFFF... Currently I prefer Moonrunner, but that may be because I've explored it more thoroughly than LotSW. That dream sequence with the arbitrary Instant Death hidden in it slightly soured me on Legend. Moonrunner's Instant Deaths tend not to be quite so random, and where essentially neutral choices do have an option leading to extreme danger, there's usually a slim chance of getting out alive rather than just a 'Ha ha! You die!' |
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 8, 2013 17:54:47 GMT
From TUFFF... Yes, I do somewhat agree. Moonrunner is definitely more of a user-friendly experience in that regard. It also gives you the feeling, in those situations, that you are only just getting through by the skin of your teeth - which adds to the tension of the plot and the sense of adventure. Oh, what I would give for him to write his third Mandrake adventure! ~ Vae Victis! ~ |
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 8, 2013 17:55:35 GMT
From TUFFF... It also gives you the feeling, in those situations, that you are only just getting through by the skin of your teeth - which adds to the tension of the plot and the sense of adventure. Absolutely. I remember one of my non-FF reviews comparing two encounters from the same adventure. Both have a die roll determine whether you live or die, but one makes it clear that your character is in serious trouble (leading to the inclusion of a "Yee-haaah!" in my notes when I survived), while the other says nothing about the threat if you roll a 'safe' number, so it's just annoying. |
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 8, 2013 18:01:49 GMT
From TUFFF... Do we need spoiler warnings in here? If so, here's one here. Also, first review, so I hope this is fun and informative enough. 
Me and my girlfriend played this one to liven up a long dull coach trip to London recently, it was one I had as a kid but never really got into for some reason, which s weird as I'd loved Shadow Warriors.
I really liked the dark, almost noirish atmosphere, the feeling of stalking round the lonely streets of a dangerous and unfriendly city all alone, and the way you were both thrown straight into the action, and have the law turned against you right at the start. The different skills seem to work nicely, giving good variety to the game, and giving you a nice way to role play different "detectives" - our guy was a trickstery, con man kind of a guy, who we decided would try to avoid any physical fighting and talk his way out of stuff.
The second section, gathering the seven macguffins of notura for Miss Marple, was fun, though it'd have been nice to have been able to ask her a little about them before choosing, and when we finally got to use them, they seemed weirdly skewed in their usefulness against how much effort we'd had to put in to getting them. Though maybe that was the point.
The various situations you get into tracking down the items are some of the most fun bits of the game, particularly dealing with the two resurrection men you need to get you into the crypt, who came across as a kind of seedier, less trustworthy Laurel and Hardy.
The final section, heading cross country to track down our quarry, actually seemed a little anticlimactic, though from flicking through some of the rest of the book after playing, it seems we maybe just got lucky/played well enough to take a more direct route than we might have otherwise.
The reveal near the end of your characters motivation, and the meaning of the books title, didn't work as well as it should have - mainly, I think, because we'd never been given any indication earlier in the book, other than a few hundred entries back in the intro, of our characters trauma driven need for justice and closure. I did really like the fact that our aim was not to kill the bad guy, but to bring him to justice, have him stand trial - seems a much more noble and mature mission than you normally get in these books.
So all in all, it seems a great book, with lots of twists and unexpected events, different avenues to explore, and a genuine sense of constant danger at every turn. I really enjoyed the weird fusion of sort of hardboiled detective, hammer horror and fantasy world that Stephen Hand seemed to create here, and there seems to be a whole lot we missed - thinking of playing again to see the asylum, slasher-movie-killer and zombie infested village that we seemed to bypass. Might have a quick cheaty run through tonight are report back on what I find. |
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 8, 2013 18:02:29 GMT
From TUFFF... What did the girlfriend think of it? (328) Despite your best efforts, you find yourself decaying in front of a computer screen. Your adventure ends here. |
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 8, 2013 18:06:23 GMT
From TUFFF... I asked her and she says -
"I really liked it. As a kid I was a huge fan of Choose Your Own Adventure books and as an adult I love D&D, and this series is like a combination of the two. This particular one was really interesting, and I like the way it develops your own character as well as the story at large. The puzzles were challenging enough not to be insulting but not so hard as to make us feel discouraged. Finding the items was probably the most fun but after a while you end up with a pile of weird things you're somehow dragging around and some of them you never even use.
"In the end it's great because it doesn't end like every other fantasy Fight A Villain story where you omg kill him and evil loses and good saves the day and blablabla. Nor is it one of those things where it's like HAHA you went through all that and we're just giving you a shite ending where you're miserable and/or dead and there's nothing you can do about it!! Struck just the right note.
"I'd have liked to see the books be a little less male-centic, but that's as much something I'd prefer in the world at large than anything specific to this book or series.  And certainly, I prefer a male orientated book to one that thinks "female" means "we better talk about shoes and make everything pink". Being ignored trumps being patronised. "But yeah, overall, an entertaining series, and this is one is the better ones. I think I got into this one the most out of the three I've read so far."
And I just had to retype all that because for some reason you can't paste into the message window on this forum.  |
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 8, 2013 18:07:03 GMT
From TUFFF... I've never had a problem with pasting... In fact, I advise that when people are writing reviews they write it in word / whatever first, then paste it here in case anything screws up. It's available on the usual context menu and CTRL+V. How odd! Interesting story though, and I'm glad that your GF is into it. My GF has no interest whatsoever...  ~ Vae Victis! ~ |
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 8, 2013 18:13:12 GMT
From TUFFF (can't find the actual username for this poster)... Despite the ugliness of the cover and of some of the inside illos, this one was rather entertaining. My main gripe is about the overall atmosphere. It feels rather tame. Maybe this has to do with mixing too many elements from too many different periods/genres (Victorian England, gothic horror, contemporary horror - the Jason Vorhees lookalike - orcs and such, Sherlock Holmes investigations…). It just doesn't quite gel. And doesn’t the idea of crimes against humanity and international courts feels woefully out of place in a fighting fantasy book? The whole thing felt way too genteel and urbane for my taste. I also did not get what the final revelation was about. It came too late, with nothing to prepare it, and it didn’t add anything to the plot. All in all, a mixed bag. |
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 8, 2013 18:27:09 GMT
From TUFFF... Wow I love the gameplay in this one - it must be one of the most intricately structured books I've read. Its definitely one of my top favourites - up there with Creature of Havoc. As for whether this is better than LotSW, I think Moonrunner is much better. The concept and story are more interesting, and the gameplay is better as well, relying on puzzle solving, good decisions and good initial skill choice. LotSW had some strange narrative problems - the need for the book of numbers is still a mystery to me, the initial encounter with the shadow warriors doesn't make much sense, and the ending was pretty silly. It was also somewhat reliant on rolling good stats - in particular you wanted to roll good Skill and Life Force stats for a decent chance at success. Moonrunner doesn't have these problems, and its encounters are just as fun and interesting. My favourite part was going on sidequests to collect the "wards" in preparation for the confrontation with Gruul. The final confrontation itself was awesome gameplay-wise - I loved the way it incorporated randomness with your level of preparedness. Are there any flaws with this book? Maybe the fact that there are a lot of references devoted to discovering where Gruul is (after you've collected the Wards), when arguably the most common and easiest method would be to pass on the locket, which skips many of these scenarios.
Overall though, this is an awesome gamebook! |
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 8, 2013 18:31:44 GMT
From TUFFF... Recently finished this new book and it was rather easier than I initially thought it would be. And if I have to directly compared to, hmm, let's say, it's predecessor, The Crimson Tide, then they're a world apart, in more ways than one. So, another new book for me, and one that I actually recall from my youth, what with such a striking cover. It's not particularly pretty, or amongst my favourites, but it is something easy to remember and quite atmospheric. I failed to meet the creature displayed on it through my playing - more on that soon enough - and was a bit saddened by that (it looked like a great and dangerous set piece) but by flipping through the pages after having been done with the whole thing, I saw that it was a worthy candidate for the cover's subject matter. But of course, this book is full of interesting set pieces that would have been worthy... it is this book strong point and flaw rolled into one. But before continuing with that, let's talk about those inside illustrations a little. Maestro's McKenna is at work here again, and again, in his element (VotV, DoN, LotSW...) but this time, while there are plenty of amazing work, as usual, there are also a few that look sketchier, rough on the edges. Perhaps the artist was short for time? Fall date and such could be responsible for how some illos turned out to be. Not my favourite from McKenna, suffice to say, but still a lot of great work. What works for the book gameplay and storywise is stuff like the skill set, diversified and well used and the great atmosphere coming from the descriptions and set pieces. Those set pieces are plentiful and original, with a definite penchant for some more or less homage to the all-time greats of the horror films of the past with a few more modern ones, albeit circa 1992. All those diversified vignettes are neatly tied-up with a gothic bow. Neatly? Not quite. Those vignettes are often created at the expense of a smooth narrative flow. Often they're so disjointed that they stop that flow dead and take the reader out of, not the gameplay, but the story itself. Which is a little sad, of course.
It started pretty well. You are thrown into the thick of the action, it's fast, the choices are numerous, the world seems vast and non-linear, a hard feat in itself. But non-linearity has a price, it seems: the narration stops dead once you reach a certain eccentric lady. It then changes into what is well known as a hub world in todays gaming lingo. You are dispatch from a central point to do different little mission: they are all connected yet at the same time not. You'll be thrown into cool yet often quite short little set pieces, all very clever, but still, every time you come back to that hub world, even though time is supposed to flow, you feel like you've just quit your own universe. Suddenly you are not playing and reading hand in hand, you are simply playing. A gothic board game, perhaps. And when you get back on track toward your main goal, that feeling of urgency will be gone; instead you'll probably just wonder if all those neat things you managed to grab will be of some use down the road, some whens and some whys.
Another element that doesn't work, and it's been pointed out in plenty of reviews already, is the whole hidden agenda thing by YOU, the hero. The whole reason the book is name as it is, really. When the reveal is done, all steam is gone, and you really don't care any more about the reasons why. It is too late in the game and no allusions whatsoever amongst the plentitude of pages preceding is ever done to ensure that we keep interest in the subject matter.
How hard would it have been to create some small passages reminding us of this ultimate goal? Of the pain, the torture, the nightmares? Even better would have been to include some kind of system where an occasional roll of the dice is done to determine whether your altered state influences your choices. How awesome would it have been to have to fight the beast within? A missed opportunity, really. But, even if it might seems like I'm complaining a lot, I had a lot of fun doing this book and enjoyed the atmosphere on display. And missing on all those awesome looking set pieces will make sure that the next time I play, I'll be going out of my way to find them, even if it means damning myself in the process. Speak in extremes, it will save you time. |
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 8, 2013 18:32:48 GMT
From TUFFF... Excellent write-up. I enjoy this one a lot, but you're quite right that the hub section does take you out of it somewhat and the whole Moonrunner element was woefully mishandled. There's also a pretty bad continuity bug where the book dramatically reveals Character A has been disguised as Character B all along even though it's quite possible for the reader never to have encountered or even heard of Character B before this revelation. |
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 8, 2013 18:39:07 GMT
From TUFFF... Thanks. I wasn't aware that you could botch that dramatic reveal. It's also fair I guess to point out that the hub section is entirely skippable... but not recommended, of course! Speak in extremes, it will save you time. |
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 8, 2013 18:40:14 GMT
From TUFFF... Good review Hynreck. I suppose the personal score could be mentioned more often, but I was glad there was one. All too often, you are some 2D sword swinger after gold. I'm being biased though, as Moonrunner is one of my favourites. I always thought that the creature at the front was the moonrunner, committing atrocities |
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 8, 2013 18:42:37 GMT
From TUFFF... Thanks. Unless I'm mistaken, it's the Obsidian Predator. Speak in extremes, it will save you time. |
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 8, 2013 18:46:13 GMT
From TUFFF... Great review Hynreck. I do love this book also. Though I didn't mind the hub thing, I am inclined to agree. It might have been better if they made only certain locations available after you visited a destination. So if you went to Gallows Square, you'd only be able to go to Ward locations near or around that area. This kinda makes more sense than if you went hunting for the Wards in a zigzagging fashion. While the main Moonrunner plot of the book is probably its weakest point due to it not receiving enough attention, what's great about this book is its gameplay. You can literally do as much or as little with your character as you like. Start off with the lowest rolls and you can succeed. Start off with ZERO skills and you can succeed. This versatility in a book appears unsurpassed and is what makes Moonrunner so special. Let's hope that this system finds its way into another gamebook one day along with a similarly intriguing and compelling story. Two Words |
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 8, 2013 18:46:58 GMT
From TUFFF... Thanks. Stephen Hand was/is(?) a good author. I guess it would be a dream come true for lots of fans if he were to complete his Mandrake "trilogy"...
One can always dream, right? Speak in extremes, it will save you time. |
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 8, 2013 18:48:45 GMT
From TUFFF... Okay, listen up FF authors, regular authors and film makers: On the off chance that Stephen Hand might write Blood of the Mandrake, nobody use 'Blood of the' ANYTHING in their titles! No offence JG but isn't that how we ended up with Bloodbones and Stormslayer. Not that they're bad titles it's just, Pirates of the Black Skull and Eye of the Storm would have been much stronger titles. IMHO |
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 8, 2013 18:49:57 GMT
From TUFFF... What? You wouldn't like:
Bleeding Mandrake
Fluids of the Mandrake
Mandrakebleeder
Hmm...
Blood of the Ginger root looking guys
?? I'm sure someone will come up with a real clever title. I can't. Speak in extremes, it will save you time. |
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 8, 2013 18:50:44 GMT
From TUFFF... I really enjoyed this book, having only read it for the first time last week. However I managed to find the locket and thus miss out on part of the story!
I liked the atmosphere too, being quite genre-spanning and thus a nice change from the usual 'dungeons and dragons' setting. I like the hubs as they make the book feel more like an adventure and less linear. When I completed it I had a real sense of achievement, not because of the difficulty level, but because the story was well constructed and engaging. Very impressed with some of the later books! |
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,677 
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Dec 9, 2013 0:26:59 GMT
From TUFFF... Okay, listen up FF authors, regular authors and film makers: On the off chance that Stephen Hand might write Blood of the Mandrake, nobody use 'Blood of the' ANYTHING in their titles! No offence JG but isn't that how we ended up with Bloodbones and Stormslayer. Not that they're bad titles it's just, Pirates of the Black Skull and Eye of the Storm would have been much stronger titles. IMHO yes, i'm quoting myself cos i'm sad like that. i'd forgotten about this post and reading it, i'd probably written it before BOTZ came out. i guess Mr Livingstone didn't hear my warning then. THANKS  |
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Post by hynreck on Dec 10, 2013 20:50:16 GMT
yes, i'm quoting myself cos i'm sad like that. i'd forgotten about this post and reading it, i'd probably written it before BOTZ came out. i guess Mr Livingstone didn't hear my warning then. THANKS Ha ha I was re-reading this and was just thinking among the same lines, then I saw your post. Too funny!
...in a sad way, of course. Let's mourn together.
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Post by deadshadowrunner on Dec 11, 2013 3:35:50 GMT
I guess Stephen Hand will have to change the title to Escape from Mandrake Castle now.
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Post by hynreck on Dec 11, 2013 16:30:51 GMT
Well thought! ^_^
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Post by a moderator on May 24, 2014 12:17:12 GMT
My TUFFF playthrough:
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Jul 23, 2015 16:03:32 GMT
A fantastic book. Not magical however. Not so strong as the amazing atmosphere of City of Thieves or the Evil Enemy of Crypt of the Sorcerer.
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Post by deadshadowrunner on Jul 24, 2015 11:38:02 GMT
Yes,I agree,"Evil Enemy of the Crypt of the Sorcerer" is indeed a very brilliant book.
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Post by hynreck on Jul 24, 2015 13:50:25 GMT
So... in case of a power outage?
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Jul 4, 2019 14:51:18 GMT
Not a good book. Nothing special about it. Miles away from masks of mayhem.
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Post by deadshadowrunner on Jul 4, 2019 17:09:09 GMT
Miles away from masks of mayhem. This part I can agree with. |
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And certainly, I prefer a male orientated book to one that thinks "female" means "we better talk about shoes and make everything pink". Being ignored trumps being patronised. 
