|
Post by thealmightymudworm on Mar 16, 2014 12:36:57 GMT
From TUFFF (in scraps)... Just got my copy and cracked into it. I like the larger format, and the cover art/design looks a lot better in the flesh than the images I had seen. Also like the page numbering in the corners..brain fade, hang on, has that always been there? Anyway, more noticeable now . Rules at the back. Interesting. Pre-rolled Characters. Nah. Interesting starting Items. Yes please. I have only encountered the Manticore thus far, but I must say that the artwork is not as good as Howl of the Werewolf (but still better than Sorcery... that series needs new artwork, seriously). Currently preparing a new AFF campaign "The Plague of Dreams".
|
|
|
Post by thealmightymudworm on Mar 16, 2014 12:37:48 GMT
From TUFFF (not whole post?)... I think it is some of the best in FF especially in the first two volumes, adding immeasurably to the atmosphere and character of the books!
|
|
|
Post by thealmightymudworm on Mar 16, 2014 12:38:13 GMT
From TUFFF... And I too really enjoyed the Sorcery! Work... I love how everyone has different tastes, and how FF manages to cater to them all most of the time, very good . ~ Vae Victis!
|
|
|
Post by thealmightymudworm on Mar 16, 2014 12:38:47 GMT
From TUFFF... I finally got a copy today, so I shall be attempting it before the evening is done.
|
|
|
Post by thealmightymudworm on Mar 16, 2014 12:39:44 GMT
From TUFFF... Stormslayer Solution coming soon. I wouldn't look at it yet unless you're fed up already. . I can advise that it is not possible to complete with min. stats. though. Two Words.
|
|
|
Post by thealmightymudworm on Mar 16, 2014 12:40:24 GMT
From TUFFF (October 2009)... I got my copy today. Unfortunately I can't play it until I clear a backlog of six other Series 1 books I bought within the last week or so! Anyway, I prefer the smaller format to be honest, and especially because the cover art-work is now so tiny . "Your progress has been watched, foul creature of destruction!"
|
|
|
Post by thealmightymudworm on Mar 16, 2014 12:42:01 GMT
From TUFFF... The new books may stand out when displayed face-on, but shops tend to have a lot of their stock spine-out, and the spine of Stormslayer doesn't grab me.
|
|
|
Post by thealmightymudworm on Mar 16, 2014 12:47:03 GMT
From TUFFF (other bits impossible to fit in order or attribute properly)...
|
|
|
Post by deadshadowrunner on Mar 17, 2014 4:17:44 GMT
...decaying in front of a computer screen.Your adventure ends here.
Gallicus' signature is still the same.
|
|
|
Post by nathanh on Mar 18, 2014 22:55:25 GMT
I like this book more and more each time I play it. You really get the feeling of being a genuine hero who wanders the country doing heroic things every week. Of all the gamebooks I've played this one makes me think most of cRPGs like Baldur's Gate. In fact the structure of the book is very much like a Bioware game. I'd say from the "game" side of things this is one of the best FF books. There's also loads going on in this book, and I particularly like the way I don't have to actually solve Mount Pyre to win. Having different side-quests depending on which order you choose is really cool, and makes it non-trivial to decide on your route.
Another thing in its favour over the other "new" Green books is that the theme (elementals + steampunk) gives rather more room for variety.
There are quite a few rules issues with the book, as one might expect from a complicated adventure with lots of special rules. A few examples: What are the exact rules for the Dwarf companion in combat? Does the Dwarf's luck brew work in battles too (essentially giving you 4 damage for every hit in all battles in the mine---surely overpowered)? What does "lose two attack rounds in a row" mean when fighting two opponents at once in ref. 171? Why do I have to lose Stamina when switching to a warhammer in battles where a warhammer is particularly good, when I can normally use the warhammer "for free" (and usually do)? Why can't I use a potion of levitation when leaving the airship at the end?
I think the art is a bit weak.
|
|
sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,678
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
|
Post by sylas on Mar 19, 2014 0:53:36 GMT
There are quite a few rules issues with the book, as one might expect from a complicated adventure with lots of special rules. A few examples: What are the exact rules for the Dwarf companion in combat? Does the Dwarf's luck brew work in battles too (essentially giving you 4 damage for every hit in all battles in the mine---surely overpowered)? What does "lose two attack rounds in a row" mean when fighting two opponents at once in ref. 171? Why do I have to lose Stamina when switching to a warhammer in battles where a warhammer is particularly good, when I can normally use the warhammer "for free" (and usually do)? Why can't I use a potion of levitation when leaving the airship at the end? The Dwarf companion:- if you fight 2 opponents in the mine, fight only the first one. the second one is automatically dealt with and you do not fight it. - if you fight a single opponent, you will have two separate attacks; your own, and the Dwarf's (similar to using Symm from CotS) - if you fight a single opponent, whenever you sustain damage, roll 1 die. on a roll of 1-3 you take damage as normal. on a 4-6 the Dwarf takes the damage so deduct from his Stamina instead. (the wording is odd and could even mean on 4-6, no one takes damage! but that makes less sense.) Wyvern's Wing brew:- Testing your Luck during combat still counts as a Test your Luck situation which gives you a static +2 extra damage when you hit within the mine. it IS very overpowered. Enjoy! Lose 2 Attack Rounds in a row:- this means the same as losing 2 successive/consecutive Attack Rounds. resolve Attack Rounds in combat as normal. make a mental note of which combatant(s) made a successful hit. if a combatant is hit by that same opponent in the very next Attack Round, it has lost 2 Attack Rounds in a row against that particular opponent. whether or not anything else was hit has no effect on this outcome. Switching weapons:- it is assumed that you will always be using your default weapon (this assumption is not always correct) - the one that is both magical and has no penalty to use. changing to a different weapon takes 'one action' and must be performed BEFORE combat begins. if you are already in combat (which you will be most of the time) taking that 'one action' to perform it means your defences are down and enemies can strike at you freely. the text does not take into consideration that some heroes treat other weapons as their default weapon, unfortunately. Levitation:- in this book, the Potion of Levitation only allows you to ascend, rather than fly. Unlike a Levitation Spell, when the effects of the potion wear off, you will simply fall rather than float to the ground.
|
|
|
Post by johnbrawn1972 on May 15, 2017 13:05:46 GMT
Champskees solution is wrong. You can only visit each floor once in the endgame.
At the beginning I have come to believe the tower is a red herring. The 'free' potion of levitation is probably the best option. If you have 14 gp then buy a potion of levitation and a potion of giant strength. The only problem is if it is Highday and the potions are 8 gp each(not solved)
Also the end has become forbiddingly difficult with full strength opponents and minimal damage to the Juggernaut(the two hit deactivation is great though)
Still not sure the best way to end as no unusual backpack. I have toyed with Air elemental.
Also it is not clear when you are being forced to use an option or you have a choice eg turn to 15 at once. Others state none of the above ie does that mean you must use an option if you can or do you have a choice eg not use air elemental to ascend but instead take 1d6+2 damage(headache)
|
|
|
Post by johnbrawn1972 on May 17, 2017 19:29:43 GMT
Stormslayer solution now complete. The 400 paragraphs are not as difficult as Night Of The Necromancer with its 450 paragraphs. The logic is easier to figure out.
One thing that seems essential is being able to visit all the markets. This reduces the possibilities of the order in which to complete the sub-games quite significantly.
It is best to do all 4 sub-games and the extended beginning as this takes the pressure off the end game. The Juggernaut has a -1 skill and -4 stamina penalty along with the possibility of the deactivate code. This leaves the main bad guy and a Potion Of Giant Strength at least gives you a +1 attack strength boost along with being able to use 2 points of luck against it.
I am not sure of the minimum stats for this but low skill is a virtual impossibility. Maybe Deathtrap levels of impossibility. My guess is 10/14/7. The main early trap is being eaten a la the creature eating creature from The Phantom Menace. What are the chances of throwing 3-14 with 3d6? Not sure off the top of my head but at least not Crypt levels of unfairness.
I have avoided some of the strange logic the options seem to give you. Rejecting the Pegasus by having none of the options fell into place. This left the hot-air balloon which again seemed to fall into place. This meant having the unusual backpack so the beginning became a necessity. Codeword Maelstrom is nothing as long as you have the Hunting Horn.
I agree with Champskees to an extent so the Chainmail Armour is a fine buy for damage limitation.
My main disagreements with Champskees seem to be the order of sub-games, what 'free' potion to take, what to buy from the markets and how to use codeword Automaton at the end. One of the things I have tried to do is follow the 'rules' at end game and only visit each 'floor' once as specified in the text. Champskees seems to play fast and loose with the rules here and wants two bites of the cherry which is the reason codeword automaton is used differently in my system. Also I avoid the nasty possibility of losing skill very near to end game.
I have also started with 14 gold pieces and have been 'miserly' with the assumed dice rolls throughout. This gives a base to work from if you use 'true' rolls for gold pieces.
My 'overly prescriptive' advice as to when to eat provisions I only put in as a suggestion. The number of battles here is so extreme I have tried to make every free stamina boost count. Champskees is right to suggest some armour gives real respite from the constant attrition.
This is probably very basic advice but anyone who makes their own solution should start with what 'outcomes' result from moving about between the sub-games. Some 'treks' are juicy whereas others seem to be traps. Only 2 routes allow 'access' to the Crystal City markets so the free advice I will give is to either start your access to the four sub-games by the 'free potion' selection and then go straight to Mount Pyre or go to Eelsea followed by Mount Pyre.
One thing I wondered with Stormslayer is whether the author is a fan of the Crystal Maze because the 4 sub-games with interconnecting routes is very redolent of that fun blast with Richard O'Brien.
|
|
|
Post by a moderator on May 17, 2017 21:57:03 GMT
What are the chances of throwing 2-14 with 3d6? Not sure off the top of my head but at least not Crypt levels of unfairness. 2 is impossible on 3d6, but the odds of a 3d6 roll falling into the 3-14 range are around 90%.
|
|
|
Post by johnbrawn1972 on May 17, 2017 22:32:28 GMT
What are the chances of throwing 2-14 with 3d6? Not sure off the top of my head but at least not Crypt levels of unfairness. 2 is impossible on 3d6, but the odds of a 3d6 roll falling into the 3-14 range are around 90%. Shows how I am more a pen and paper operator rather than doing things 'properly' where the dice throws would be ingrained. Now amended. That percentage gives me the encouragement to believe I am on the right lines with my solution. I do not know if this is a strange question but why are there only solutions from Champskees and me on the board. The regular posters seem to have remarkable knowledge so I would have thought there would be rabid posting from all concerned. One answer might be the early books especially seem fairly linear(1, 2 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, 12, 15, 21 as a first stab)so this renders multiple postings redundant. One thing that might have happened more is responses to Champskees solutions but these seem only sporadic. Is there a reason for this? I wondered if it might be the case Champskees is the first responder then there could be many replies followed by a super-solution which might be 0% different or 100% different if the interpretations invert his ideas. I know the essential book mechanics must be the same otherwise it is madness. An example might be my 7/14/7 Night Of The Necromancer 'cascade' solution which goes off in a completely different direction to Champskees help guide/solution(I still love his help guide because it makes apparent what the consequences are for certain options or failed dice throws which I would suggest is invaluable to anyone who wants to break into it). Are people protective of their own solutions or is it more prosaic where we let Champskees do all the hard work and then most disagree privately? Some might be so 'prejudiced' they could not agree to a super-solution but I suppose it depends on peoples dispositions? Who would adjudicate? Headache?
|
|
kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,458
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
|
Post by kieran on May 18, 2017 8:23:22 GMT
I do not know if this is a strange question but why are there only solutions from Champskees and me on the board. The regular posters seem to have remarkable knowledge so I would have thought there would be rabid posting from all concerned. One answer might be the early books especially seem fairly linear(1, 2 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, 12, 15, 21 as a first stab)so this renders multiple postings redundant. One thing that might have happened more is responses to Champskees solutions but these seem only sporadic. Is there a reason for this? I wondered if it might be the case Champskees is the first responder then there could be many replies followed by a super-solution which might be 0% different or 100% different if the interpretations invert his ideas. I know the essential book mechanics must be the same otherwise it is madness. An example might be my 7/14/7 Night Of The Necromancer 'cascade' solution which goes off in a completely different direction to Champskees help guide/solution(I still love his help guide because it makes apparent what the consequences are for certain options or failed dice throws which I would suggest is invaluable to anyone who wants to break into it). Are people protective of their own solutions or is it more prosaic where we let Champskees do all the hard work and then most disagree privately? Some might be so 'prejudiced' they could not agree to a super-solution but I suppose it depends on peoples dispositions? Who would adjudicate? Headache? I can't speak for anyone else here, but in my case, I don't really like to play the books with an ideal solution in mind, I even quite like forgetting the optimal route at times because it keeps the book fresh. Of course if I spot a mistake in Champskee's or someone else's solutions I'll comment - for instance I pointed out that it is quicker to skip the entire basement section of Citadel of Chaos. Usually though I'm either happy with Champskee's solution or don't know the book well enough to disagree and have no interest in analysing it to come up with an alternative. Heck, I don't even know the optimal route through some of my own gamebooks!
|
|
|
Post by lordomnibok on May 18, 2017 10:24:52 GMT
I do not know if this is a strange question but why are there only solutions from Champskees and me on the board. The regular posters seem to have remarkable knowledge so I would have thought there would be rabid posting from all concerned. One answer might be the early books especially seem fairly linear(1, 2 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, 12, 15, 21 as a first stab)so this renders multiple postings redundant. One thing that might have happened more is responses to Champskees solutions but these seem only sporadic. Is there a reason for this? I wondered if it might be the case Champskees is the first responder then there could be many replies followed by a super-solution which might be 0% different or 100% different if the interpretations invert his ideas. I know the essential book mechanics must be the same otherwise it is madness. An example might be my 7/14/7 Night Of The Necromancer 'cascade' solution which goes off in a completely different direction to Champskees help guide/solution(I still love his help guide because it makes apparent what the consequences are for certain options or failed dice throws which I would suggest is invaluable to anyone who wants to break into it). Are people protective of their own solutions or is it more prosaic where we let Champskees do all the hard work and then most disagree privately? Some might be so 'prejudiced' they could not agree to a super-solution but I suppose it depends on peoples dispositions? Who would adjudicate? Headache? I can't speak for anyone else here, but in my case, I don't really like to play the books with an ideal solution in mind, I even quite like forgetting the optimal route at times because it keeps the book fresh. Of course if I spot a mistake in Champskee's or someone else's solutions I'll comment - for instance I pointed out that it is quicker to skip the entire basement section of Citadel of Chaos. Usually though I'm either happy with Champskee's solution or don't know the book well enough to disagree and have no interest in analysing it to come up with an alternative. Heck, I don't even know the optimal route through some of my own gamebooks! After completing a book, I always compare my walkthroughs with the ones on this forum. I posted an alternative route for Deathmoor because I felt that there was a definite need for it. The reason I haven't posted others is simply because I am usually very satisfied with the ones that have already been done. If I wasn't, I would certainly mention it.
|
|
|
Post by thealmightymudworm on May 19, 2017 3:32:14 GMT
I do not know if this is a strange question but why are there only solutions from Champskees and me on the board. The regular posters seem to have remarkable knowledge so I would have thought there would be rabid posting from all concerned. One answer might be the early books especially seem fairly linear(1, 2 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, 12, 15, 21 as a first stab)so this renders multiple postings redundant. One thing that might have happened more is responses to Champskees solutions but these seem only sporadic. Is there a reason for this? I wondered if it might be the case Champskees is the first responder then there could be many replies followed by a super-solution which might be 0% different or 100% different if the interpretations invert his ideas. I know the essential book mechanics must be the same otherwise it is madness. An example might be my 7/14/7 Night Of The Necromancer 'cascade' solution which goes off in a completely different direction to Champskees help guide/solution(I still love his help guide because it makes apparent what the consequences are for certain options or failed dice throws which I would suggest is invaluable to anyone who wants to break into it). Are people protective of their own solutions or is it more prosaic where we let Champskees do all the hard work and then most disagree privately? Some might be so 'prejudiced' they could not agree to a super-solution but I suppose it depends on peoples dispositions? Who would adjudicate? Headache? That's not quite true: for example fallingmast offered up some jovial walk-throughs of Sorcery! and nathanh came up with a very interesting set of walkthroughs for Moonrunner which vary according to what stats the player starts with. I don't have any well-worked out walk-throughs written out myself (I probably wouldn't top the 'remarkable knowledge' list on here). Probably there is a feeling that as Champskees has held himself to a high standard it would take a lot of energy and maths to eke out any minor improvements. As I recall there had been a number of solutions on TUFFF – mostly posted by a guy named Sunil (seeking/finding his solution to TCT brought me to FF forums) – before Champskees set himself the task of doing all the books with the sense that it would be a more exacting process. I don't know Jonathan Green's books at all well, so I can't really comment on those anyway.
|
|
|
Post by johnbrawn1972 on Jul 31, 2017 22:52:50 GMT
I have realised two different routes are possibly necessary depending upon whether you lose 2 skill at the beginning or not.
Solutions to be posted shortly.
I cannot explain this but it is somehow wonderful to work on these later masterpieces.
|
|
sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,678
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
|
Post by sylas on Aug 1, 2017 15:47:32 GMT
I have realised two different routes are possibly necessary depending upon whether you lose 2 skill at the beginning or not. Solutions to be posted shortly. I cannot explain this but it is somehow wonderful to work on these later masterpieces. That's because the later books were allowed more flexibility in rules compared to the early rigid ones.
|
|
|
Post by johnbrawn1972 on Aug 1, 2017 23:01:13 GMT
Latest update now posted in the solutions thread.
I think Champskees is right to choose the order of the sub-games in the way he does but I have altered the route in other ways. Paying 7gp for a Potion of Underwater Breathing or 10gp for Prospero Seacharmer is a waste when there are so few opportunities to buy equipment. This means taking the Potion of Underwater Breathing as the free potion option. The Dragon Tattoo provides fire protection. There are no rules for how encumbered you can be in relation to armour protection. I have taken the radical decision to buy the Breastplate, Chainmail Armour and Wyrmskin Cloak. I have taken minimal gold rolls so this is included in the solution.
I have another solution suitable for someone who does not incur the -2 skill protection and has a decent luck score. This route entails going to Howling Plains first and then going to Eelsea. I am not sure of the validity but you have a lot of gold to buy equipment.
The change in the order of the sub-games in my standard solution realises more gold but I think Champskees mishandles the way he spends gold in his solution. His suggestion about being armoured to the eyeballs is in my opinion inspired. The last encounter is rather tough so why not be close to invulnerable?
|
|
sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,678
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
|
Post by sylas on Aug 2, 2017 14:40:26 GMT
Its very unclear as to what armour the breastplate is as it can be interpreted as both a piece of armour or a full suit. The cloak should be fine though.
|
|
|
Post by johnbrawn1972 on Aug 11, 2017 16:56:22 GMT
I have realized(the software has Americanized my English I suppose C3PO would say how rude)my solution needs a wash and brush up but I feel I am on the right lines.
I think I will also post the Howling Plains as first selection route where you need a decent luck score so maybe 10/14/10. This acquires 13gp and a rope and grapple. The upshot is you must go to Eelsea next to acquire equipment and so follow with Mount Pyre. If I recall correctly from Howling Plains you can opt to go to Mount Pyre and then divert to Eelsea thus acquiring extra provisions.
|
|
|
Post by johnbrawn1972 on Aug 14, 2017 22:30:48 GMT
I am fairly sure about my solution as currently posted where it is Mount Pyre first with the gold piece acquisition generating maximum armour for the end game. It is easy to understand the chainmail armour being overladen with the Breastplate a la A Fistful Of Dollars along with the Wyrmskin Cloak.
This raised questions about minimum attributes but 10 skill makes the early stages make sense especially the skill roll -2.
The roll that is a bit tough is the 3d6 stamina roll where you have no rope and grapple.
Does anyone have any theory about this?
My only solution is the Howling Plains as first move solution. This acquires a rope and grapple. The problem is Eelsea must be next so you cannot go to Mount Pyre first which feels natural. This route requires 10/14/10 as a minimum?
|
|
sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,678
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
|
Post by sylas on Aug 14, 2017 23:34:14 GMT
My route is Howling Plains, Eelsea, Mount Pyre, Witchtooth Line. I normally go for Skill/AS bonuses instead of armour. But being near impregnable seems a good choice. I posted a solution a while ago even before Champskees but it seems my old posts just keep getting erased thus destroying the evidence.
|
|
|
Post by johnbrawn1972 on Aug 15, 2017 14:22:03 GMT
My route is Howling Plains, Eelsea, Mount Pyre, Witchtooth Line. I normally go for Skill/AS bonuses instead of armour. But being near impregnable seems a good choice. I posted a solution a while ago even before Champskees but it seems my old posts just keep getting erased thus destroying the evidence. This seems plausible as my earlier post. The only thing I am not sure about is if you fail to smash the door down and lose 2 skill points the upshot is there is no way to restore skill if Howling Plains is first. Secondly to achieve on the way to Howling Plains it seems to me you need a high skill and high luck score. If you do achieve this the rest of the book become much easier. The diversion from Mount Pyre to Eelsea also acquires an extra 4 provisions. You will have 32gp to spend when you reach Eelsea markets.
|
|
sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,678
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
|
Post by sylas on Aug 15, 2017 17:26:00 GMT
The lowest stats I've complete Stormslayer with is: SK 9, ST 17, LK 9, GP 14, choosing the Hunting Horn and Dragon Tattoo as starting items.
|
|
|
Post by johnbrawn1972 on Aug 16, 2017 22:07:22 GMT
I have posted a similar solution to the one suggested above. I now believe if you lose 2 skill it is better to go to Mount Pyre first as you can buy the Potion of Skill. If you retain the skill it is probably better to go to Howling Plains first but 9 skill and 9 luck are probably the minimum as it is difficult to complete the task and gain the 10gp otherwise.
|
|
|
Post by johnbrawn1972 on Aug 17, 2017 12:57:37 GMT
I thought it best to reply to Sylas here in the proper thread.
I had never considered the radical decision to cause no damage whatsoever. Champskees solution causes maximum damage but clearly breaks the moving between decks rules. My solutions obey the rules but causes just enough damage to activate the -1 skill and -4 stamina enemy penalty. I have always considered this a neat compromise.
I am not sure about your suggestion. Does this mean having to confront the full strength Juggernaut? A tougher encounter than Balthazar Sturm?
|
|
sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,678
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
|
Post by sylas on Aug 17, 2017 16:38:21 GMT
Yes. But as I said, my solution goes for all the AS bonus items instead of the armours. After you throw the Dreadnought at it, you can still use the deactivate method for an easier fight. I found causing more damage hurts you more overall but I can't guarantee it's a better way to go.
|
|