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Post by stevendoig on Dec 14, 2013 6:28:27 GMT
Only tried this book a couple of times before, but last week I sat down and gave it a shottie.
The first thing I did was checked the wiki out for all the errors and corrected them before I started - I forgot to do that the last couple of times.!
Also took note of the Gold pieces problem (so I could cheat withoot feeling guilty!)
You're probably all expecting a nice long review eh? - nope, its not happening!
This is the first book since I started my 'completing the books in order marathon' that I gave up reading! - I don't mean gave up because I couldn't complete it (theres been a few of them noo since I hit book 49!) I mean gave up on my first read!
I got quite far on as well, I found the clue fae the Counts brother and went to look for the lad himself, then hit yet another 'hub world' situation. Hubs don't ususally bother me, but in this book they were completely uninvolving and, well, a chore!
I honestly felt like I'd turned to aboot 500 references by the time I got as far as I did, and I had been playing the book for hours.
Never given up part way through an FF book before - just wondering if its happened to anyone else? - with this book or others!
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Post by a moderator on Dec 14, 2013 22:50:51 GMT
I've given up on Legend of Zagor before now. And I never did get back to the attempt at Blood of the Zombies I started last December.
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Post by hynreck on Dec 16, 2013 15:33:41 GMT
I usually never quits, but I remember doing it back then (when I was far younger) with the french issue of Creature of Havoc. Of course, now I know why I was stuck, due to that particular mistake in the text.
Other than that, there's the first Fatemaster (I believe it is so named in english?)that I've also played in french, a few tries, I believe, but always ended up quitting, being stuck and having no clue about what I was doing wrong. For all I know, I was being the victim of another editing mistake.
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Post by a moderator on May 2, 2014 17:40:49 GMT
From the 'Books in Order' thread:
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Post by a moderator on May 2, 2014 18:12:17 GMT
The TUFFF thread on this book was only two posts long (and one of those was Masterchief's standard intro). Here's the other one: Despite all of it's flaws (such as having to cheat at one point and pretend you have a gold piece, and an error in which paragraph you must turn to in the first edition including a very serious flaw with a must-have quest winning item) I do love the book! The setting, the story, the adventure... Keith Martin's ( Carl Sargent's) books are some of my favourites. I know a lot of people don't really like him, even though he was one of the more prolific FF writers. Here's the deal for me: - I love the way he tells a story. Most of his books, especially later ones, are very verbose in description and narrative. Night Dragon is my all-time favourite FF.
- Really enjoying the gameplay aspect of FF as well as the story, I also love the extra rules he puts in his books, even if they aren't always necessary. Night Dragon is my all-time favourite FF.
- His books are often dark fantasy in a very threatening world, that creates a tangible sense of dread (RotV is great at this).
- The downside? His books are also hideously flawed! Paragraphs leading to wrong sections, the "A=1, B=2, C=3... ...Z=26" rules often lead to the wrong sections too, and they were not thoroughly play-tested meaning all his work on gameplay can be very flawed (RotV is great at this).
So what do you all think? For those of you wishing to attempt the book again (as it may very well appear in a challenge very soon....!), I have copied from Titannica Wikia the following. All links within the text go to the relevant sections on Titannica, for your perusal. Unfortunately there are a number of errors and continuity problems in Revenge of the Vampire, and some of these may be fatal for finishing the adventure. These errors include: - You can go from (140) to (203) which, although not fatal, means that continuity is disturbed (you visit the coaching inn again). (140) perhaps ought to lead to (155) or (279).
- (5) gives the option of turning to (98). This should rather be to (166).
- (322) gives the option of turning to (399). This should rather be to (393).
- To get Sewarth's Codex the player needs to buy a Horse and then buy a room in the Inn. However, to buy a horse it costs all of the player's Gold Pieces, no matter how many they have (276), and with no opportunities to get gold on the trip, it is impossible to get into the inn. If you don't buy the horse, Reiner leaves the inn before you get there. Therefore, it is completely impossible to get Sewarth's Codex without cheating!
- Page 8 refers to magic points but these do not feature in the gamebook. It should refer to the faith score.
- (142) and (210) have been wrongly swapped. This is corrected in the second impression.
- The "Adventure Sheet" incorrectly features three boxes for SKILL and none for STAMINA or LUCK.
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Post by champskees on May 11, 2014 12:12:09 GMT
Quick query on the new edition: what does it actually fix? Did they only fix the 142/210 sections or have they dealt with the codex issue as well?
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Post by a moderator on May 11, 2014 14:24:59 GMT
The only thing fixed in the second printing was the 142/210 mix-up.
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Post by CharlesX on Oct 30, 2021 12:53:29 GMT
It started fairly weak but got better. I liked the feud with the masters of air and earth and the final battle was quite interesting. It's VERY Keith Martin, for better or worse, and the correct path is way too long (which is probably why I abandoned my effort to write a guide for it  ). All in all, a decent effort but far from his best. I wonder how Keith Martin feels about Revenge Of The Vampire, which was not mentioned (at least, not with criticism) in You Are The Hero. I imagine both the author and the editors work at their job, and a potentially good book was spoiled because the editors (and the author) didn't lift a finger. Do they take the Stephen King approach to publishing & editing? link |
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Post by bloodbeasthandler on Oct 31, 2021 9:07:57 GMT
I wonder how Keith Martin feels about Revenge Of The Vampire, which was not mentioned (at least, not with criticism) in You Are The Hero. I imagine both the author and the editors work at their job, and a potentially good book was spoiled because the editors (and the author) didn't lift a finger. Do they take the Stephen King approach to publishing & editing? Sadly we'll not know now, at least not directly from Carl Sargent [Keith Martin is just a pen name remember], because he died in 2018. And a smacked bum for the editor for not picking the error up. Consider the error a typo and amend the book accordingly and don't let it ruin the book for you. If you bought a car brand new but it had a faulty indicator you wouldn't immediately scrap it or push it off a cliff would you? Same with this book. Edit: Some of the books need errata. New printings should be free of mistakes because there's no excuse now for leaving errors in. |
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Post by a moderator on Oct 31, 2021 13:56:26 GMT
[Shifted a couple of posts from the thread on Island of the Undead]
There's more than one error in Revenge (though, bizarrely, just one of the mistakes in it was fixed between the first and second print runs), and at least one of the remaining issues is more complex than just a typo in need of fixing. Pity it never got the editorial attention it needed.
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IoannesKantakouzenos
Traveller
Being slowly eaten alive by a Ghoul
Posts: 105
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy (Aventuras Fantásticas)
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Post by IoannesKantakouzenos on Mar 6, 2023 16:08:36 GMT
Would very much like a revised edition of this book. Even at the cost of having the shoddy artwork of the Scholastic books.
(OK, maybe that's way too extreme)
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Post by CharlesX on Mar 6, 2023 16:39:59 GMT
Would very much like a revised edition of this book. Even at the cost of having the shoddy artwork of the Scholastic books. (OK, maybe that's way too extreme) I personally don't think Revenge is one of Keith Martin's better books (and yes, I've played it and owned it) but I very much get what you mean, and I think it's sad when your main memory of an FF or any other work for that matter is not the work itself but the many errors about it (in other words, I'm not a fan of Tower Of Destruction, which by the way I think is slightly better than Revenge and at least as worthy of a revised edition with fewer or preferably no errors). Now Keith Martin has sadly passed away we may never know what he had in mind with the gold piece \ horse issue..
This was very much my own thoughts on first reading ROTV, I might add I was unsure what kind of charlatan he might be to demand what was in effect a GP tip. I even thought it might be a numerical error, that 8 GP was the number that should have been printed, which would make some sense but probably isn't the truth.
Bit like in Stealer Of Souls where you might as well cast the Speed spell before the combat starts, not when you are given the specific reference option (before the stairs, that is).
Most printings change very little, or normally nothing, so there's a gap between what should be happening and what is happening. Spellbreaker made some changes which were arguably more than cosmetic but very much kept the fundamental one that you have to lose the fight with the guards and accept the Mad Beggar's help, maddeningly giving the surrender option on the incorrect path. Curse Of The Mummy was the exception to the rule where gameplay was tweaked and errors corrected, but new errors crept in. Most reprints change absolutely nothing or fix one or two things, not as many as they should (Legend Of Zagor has a number of technical errors I would like fixed as well as more glaring gameplay issues).
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Post by a moderator on Mar 7, 2023 13:36:03 GMT
This was very much my own thoughts on first reading ROTV, I might add I was unsure what kind of charlatan he might be to demand what was in effect a GP tip. I even thought it might be a numerical error, that 8 GP was the number that should have been printed, which would make some sense but probably isn't the truth. The man's an opportunist. Pretty much any time there's a tragedy, you'll get some greedy individuals exploiting the desperation of others to wring as much profit out of the situation as they can, and the farmer is just such a person. What 'seems reasonable' is irrelevant when an unreasonable person wants to take advantage of unreasonable circumstances. The horse isn't worth more than 8 GP. It's probably worth slightly less. But the owner sees this as his big opportunity to fleece an adventurer - the sort of person he may sometimes see in taverns or markets, flashing around more money than an 'honest' worker such as himself can earn in a year. The encounter could have gone something like this... Farmer: Darned thing escaped again. He loves running away, the wretch. Must have been all the noise of folks getting up at nights that roused him. You: Can I buy him? Farmer: Now, don't go thinking that just 'cause I was complaining about him a moment ago, he's not a valuable horse. Cost me a lot, he did, and a lot of good work he does for me. I'll need a decent price if I'm to part with him now. How much have you got? You: [However many gold you have] Farmer: Well, I guess that'll just about do. |
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,458
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Mar 7, 2023 14:57:55 GMT
The oddest thing is this farmer doesn't even show up unless you have at least 8 gold pieces. Can he smell gold?
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,678 
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Mar 8, 2023 19:36:53 GMT
Honest adventurer shows a full bag of 500 gold pieces.
Farmer: Well, I guess that'll just about do.
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Post by a moderator on Mar 8, 2023 22:55:26 GMT
Honest adventurer cannot have amassed anywhere near that much money by that stage of the book.
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Post by CharlesX on Mar 9, 2023 13:32:22 GMT
Honest adventurer shows a full bag of 500 gold pieces. Farmer: Well, I guess that'll just about do. No, but Sylas's words definitely made me think of the point in Gates Of Death where you can claim to be buying the map for 200gp, with the Riddling Reaver appearing and setting your pants on fire for being a liar - even though you can have gotten 200gp by that point, either by repeatedly purchasing the box for 10gp which has 20gp within, or repeatedly slaying Fossick with a high Skill adventurer, and using one of the several items which loop you back. Even if Gates Of Death were fixed it would be a poor book, not only because the gameplay would be extremely easy but the writing and artwork are poor and dull, although not without charm. It isn't like Revenge Of The Vampire or Tower Of Destruction where a technically revised edition would make me change my mind and want to play the gamebook (in my opinion).
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IoannesKantakouzenos
Traveller
Being slowly eaten alive by a Ghoul
Posts: 105
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy (Aventuras Fantásticas)
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Post by IoannesKantakouzenos on Mar 9, 2023 14:32:09 GMT
I personally don't think Revenge is one of Keith Martin's better books (and yes, I've played it and owned it) but I very much get what you mean, and I think it's sad when your main memory of an FF or any other work for that matter is not the work itself but the many errors about it (in other words, I'm not a fan of Tower Of Destruction, which by the way I think is slightly better than Revenge and at least as worthy of a revised edition with fewer or preferably no errors). Now Keith Martin has sadly passed away we may never know what he had in mind with the gold piece \ horse issue.. I know, it's not a fan favourite - which in theory deems it unworthy of a re-edition, especially with KM's passing - but like I said somewhere I cannot remember, I wanted RotV to be perfect (because VotV was pretty awesome), and even with its faults I kinda like it and only wished I could find a copy of it (that wouldn't make me sell my house to afford it, that is) or that Verbo had published it before they cancelled the series in Portugal. I have no problems with the flow feeling like the book has 500 or 600 references (honestly I enjoy long treks, having to pass by four or five places before arriving at the climax) and wished that, at least, the continuity errors in this one had been grooved out and, at the very least, there was some explanation on how Katarina became a Vampire or how she became sort of linked with Reiner (i.e., if you attack and kill her when she first appears, you may subtract Skill and Stamina from her brother in the final fight). The 8 gp thing is annoying in a sense that, as kieran said, the horse gimmick only happens if you have them. It's a "me" thing, I guess.
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Post by a moderator on Mar 9, 2023 21:01:18 GMT
I have no problems with the flow feeling like the book has 500 or 600 references (honestly I enjoy long treks, having to pass by four or five places before arriving at the climax) and wished that, at least, the continuity errors in this one had been grooved out and, at the very least, there was some explanation on how Katarina became a Vampire or how she became sort of linked with Reiner (i.e., if you attack and kill her when she first appears, you may subtract Skill and Stamina from her brother in the final fight). Doktor Adenauer in Vault has arcane knowledge, seems rather fond of Katarina (185), and cannot be killed by the adventurer who slays Reiner and Katarina. Speculation: he goes down to the Crypt after the adventurer and Nastassia leave, and finds Katarina's remains. Suspecting, based on some of the research the Count had him conduct, that Reiner has plans to restore himself to undeath, the Doktor uses some of the vampire blood that splashed the coffin's lining during the staking to perform a dark rite over Katarina's corpse. This creates a mystical bond between the two Heydrich siblings, so that if Reiner does rise again, some of his vampiric energy will be transfused into his sister, bringing her back as a vampire - and that bond has the side-effect that if one of the vampires is killed again, the other will suffer harm. |
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IoannesKantakouzenos
Traveller
Being slowly eaten alive by a Ghoul
Posts: 105
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy (Aventuras Fantásticas)
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Post by IoannesKantakouzenos on Mar 9, 2023 22:05:53 GMT
Damnit. Beautiful. And it makes sense.
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Post by zimgief on Mar 13, 2023 10:18:14 GMT
I love it! Be it republished, adding this to the story would perfectly connect the two books.  |
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roidhun
Wanderer
Ironic, self-deprecating nerd and geek extraordinnaire.
Posts: 78
Favourite Gamebook Series: The Legends of Skyfall (Yes, really!)
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Post by roidhun on Aug 16, 2023 9:04:07 GMT
I always go to the mansion first and then head for the lair of the witches. Because I really enjoy pouring Oil Of Disenchantment over the cursed standing stone, blowing it up and setting the trapped souls free!
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IoannesKantakouzenos
Traveller
Being slowly eaten alive by a Ghoul
Posts: 105
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy (Aventuras Fantásticas)
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Post by IoannesKantakouzenos on Sept 6, 2023 20:54:57 GMT
I always go to the mansion first and then head for the lair of the witches. Because I really enjoy pouring Oil Of Disenchantment over the cursed standing stone, blowing it up and setting the trapped souls free! I would do the same thing (which, for me, makes sense for a goody-goody-two-shoes hero), however it gives you a (no idea about the odds) chance of being killed outright in a first fight with Reiner Heydrich. |
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Post by Peter on Dec 15, 2023 7:02:42 GMT
I have no problems with the flow feeling like the book has 500 or 600 references (honestly I enjoy long treks, having to pass by four or five places before arriving at the climax) and wished that, at least, the continuity errors in this one had been grooved out and, at the very least, there was some explanation on how Katarina became a Vampire or how she became sort of linked with Reiner (i.e., if you attack and kill her when she first appears, you may subtract Skill and Stamina from her brother in the final fight). Doktor Adenauer in Vault has arcane knowledge, seems rather fond of Katarina (185), and cannot be killed by the adventurer who slays Reiner and Katarina. Speculation: he goes down to the Crypt after the adventurer and Nastassia leave, and finds Katarina's remains. Suspecting, based on some of the research the Count had him conduct, that Reiner has plans to restore himself to undeath, the Doktor uses some of the vampire blood that splashed the coffin's lining during the staking to perform a dark rite over Katarina's corpse. This creates a mystical bond between the two Heydrich siblings, so that if Reiner does rise again, some of his vampiric energy will be transfused into his sister, bringing her back as a vampire - and that bond has the side-effect that if one of the vampires is killed again, the other will suffer harm. Just completed this book. I loved the atmosphere, really well written.
I think there is no link between Katarina and Reiner. Rather, Reiner is currently gaining energy from the pictures while you encounter Katarina. If you choose to listen to her story, the Count has more time and becomes more powerful, but if you attack straight away, you reach him sooner and so his strength is less developed.
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). All in all, a decent effort but far from his best.
