|
Post by The Count on Dec 29, 2020 2:20:02 GMT
So during the pandemic, I had some time to spare in the office while waiting for the boss to give me the information I needed to do something, so I started making a FF ranking spreadsheet where I evaluated the FF books. This was based on various categories and the total added up. Then I compared this to how I viewed my favourites.
The categories were: PLOT - How well the overall story was planned out and executed. WRITING - How well written the book was overall. This includes as a story, the links between paragraphs and how easy it is to spot a false path. ATMOSPHERE - How much I was drawn into the book by the plot, writing and artwork. BALANCE - How I gauged the fights, and chance of getting through the book without wanting to throw it in the bin. This means some "unfair" books are actually highly balanced as they have a mix of high and low skill opponents, or are balanced for someone with high stats. REPLAY - How much I feel you can replay the book for enjoyment, or the satisfaction of getting alternative endings. ENJOYMENT - How much I enjoyed the book overall. Total comes to 100
I also looked at the artwork separately, but didn't include this in the overall ranking unless there was a tie. ART - How good the internal art is. Obviously, Ian Miller wins and a Scholastic title doesn't get many (if any) points. So I couldn't fairly count the overall art unless there was a tie. If a book has multiple variations, I take them all into consideration but the first set takes precedence. COVER - How good the cover art is. Unfortunately, some covers are terrible so take away from the book. (Ian Miller is the main culprit of this strangely enough). As some books have 3-4 covers, the first takes precedence even if later covers are better.
When the forum FF rankings came up, I used this as the basis for my scoring, but put more emphasis on my enjoyment of the books. Despite this, there are still a few where the rankings just don't match up for various reasons, and at least one where the ranking vote I gave was 2 points too high based on a conversation on here. Also, I may have given the most extreme rankings from what I can gather from the various posts.
This may take a while to get through and any comment or critique is most welcome. Unless it relates to the bottom 7.
|
|
|
Post by The Count on Dec 29, 2020 2:35:27 GMT
So lets kick this off with my least favourite FF book ever...
77 Blood of the Zombies 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 TOTAL 0 / FF 0 (-100)*
*I wasn't allowed to give this a negative score...
I really don't consider this a FF book at all. It is just nonsense. The new fangled "zombies" that are not zombies, the EU country taking dollars when they are Stasi-like on Euros even in some airports, the lack of plot, the non FF rules, the ambiguous counting that means you can win but still lose by not understanding the shite Ian is talking, and the fact that even with infinite stamina, you have at best a 50% chance of winning means this is simply dire... the only saving grace is some lovely internal artwork that frankly deserved to be in a much better book. Ultimately, this was an insult to all FF fans and to the legacy of FF when excreted for FF30...
(Incidentally, I can't get the excel table to post nicely - if anyone has hints PM me and I'll fix the posts accordingly)
|
|
|
Post by The Count on Dec 29, 2020 3:18:54 GMT
76 Appointment with FEAR 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 TOTAL 0 / FF 0 (-10) I'm not a fan of comic books and superheroes in general. The only comic book stories I enjoyed as a child were those 4 kids who were kidnapped or chased by the snarks and who got special powers, and those related to MOTU / She-Ra and Thundercats (as they followed on from the cartoons and mini comics with the figures). So this, is a non-starter on basics. Getting into it, you have the worlds worst superhero with the worst name and the inability to survive a vindictive old sow kicking you in the shin at Tesco. The overall atmosphere may be convincing to someone who uses Marvel as porn, but for me it just reeks of a cheap rip off and trope overdose. I loathe the art, cannot stand the simplistic writing, and find the strangely easy to miss clues (due to how BORING this is to attempt to read meaning you stop caring after the 3rd paragraph you turn to) a poor gimmick rather than clever design. As for the final super villain - you win because of a mundane piece of everyday electronics?!? Just DIRE...
This has the worst art in the entire FF series - I abhor the cover as well, and am probably the only person who finds the crappy Scholastic version to be a vast improvement.
The only reason this scores higher than BOTZ is for using the actual FF stats of SK / ST / L
Thankfully, I forget this exists most of the time.
|
|
|
Post by The Count on Dec 29, 2020 3:58:02 GMT
75 Gates of Death 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 TOTAL 0 / FF 0 (-10)*
This is another one that I don't really consider to be a true FF book. Superficially, the plot almost makes a vague sort of sense - then you realise it was written by someone for whom "canon" is irrelevant and who knows nothing about the series. Or about writing. Or about life in general.
The bum faced monster is just ridiculous and this sort of drek can only be conceived by someone so brain dead they make an amoeba look intelligent. Absolutely nothing can make this utter dross appealing unless you need flammable material urgently, and even then I suspect the flame will run a mile in abject horror at this moronic monstrosity!
*again, I was not allowed to give this a negative score...
|
|
|
Post by The Count on Dec 29, 2020 4:59:48 GMT
74 Freeway Fighter 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 TOTAL 0 / FF 0
My official least favourite FF book as I often forget about FEAR. As a mad max rip off, its still rather ridiculous. You need petrol? Waste loads on boy racer games! Food is in short supply? Send one person in a dodgy car to the other end of the country in a dodgy car to pick it up! Resources are dwindling? Stick ROCKETS onto every car!
The cover is good - having been used for various other things, and the internal art is ok given the context. It just doesn't fit the book. Though the drawing of the stick is the best part of an utterly abysmal effort.
|
|
|
Post by The Count on Dec 29, 2020 5:10:01 GMT
73 Clash of the Princes: The Warrior's Way 1 3 2 2 0 0 3 4 TOTAL 8 / FF 0
72 Clash of the Princes: The Warlock's Way 1 3 2 2 0 0 3 4 TOTAL 8 / FF 0
In theory, this is a good pair of adventures. In reality, it is a series of large arguments, disagreements and one book that cannot be completed leading to even bigger arguments. Being tied together ruins the good parts of each individual book - the prose is decent in both and it what lifts them above Zombies, Gates etc
I felt bad voting for these during the FF rankings as I've not read these for a long time, but as they left such a bad impression, and most reviews I've read imply I would still not enjoy them in the slightest, I felt it was justified.
|
|
|
Post by The Count on Dec 29, 2020 5:17:54 GMT
71 Steve Jackson's Sorcery!: The Crown of Kings 1 3 1 2 2 1 7 8 TOTAL 10 / FF 1
This is where things may be mildly controversial. I don't find Sorcery! to be "Epic!" in terms of individual books and as a whole. There is no denying that Steve is a decent writer and knows his way round a complex gamebook, however I find that he tries too hard to make things complex for the sake of it, which ruins the Sorcery! series. The ending is rather feeble and feels like an error - and as an ending to a supposed "Epic!" it is a major anti-climax. You know you need to do a certain something as the Wizard, and as the Warrior, its a rather easy fight. The legendary John Blanche saves it somewhat with his artwork, but not enough to stave off the boredom this final volume generates.
|
|
|
Post by The Count on Dec 29, 2020 5:40:12 GMT
70 Assassins of Allansia 2 1 6 4 1 0 5 5 TOTAL 14 / FF 1
Oh dear... new book, old ideas. The initial premise was brilliant - live for a month on a hostile island with no food. Unfortunately, you leave the island almost immediately to follow the most linear slog since War & Peace. Yes there are all of three occasions where you can digress from the true path, two of which put you back on with minor penalties, and a further two occasions where you can avoid an encounter that you need to win to beat the book, but these are not signposted due to the misleading nature of the book - which is not clever. Massive plot holes aside, this is basically an advert for other Livingstone titles (some of which were not reprinted at the time of release),and an excuse to trample all over the introduction to the biggest selling FF of all time... even the island section is ruined by two ridiculous encounters (the decayer and the dragon). The titular assassins are mostly weak and incidental. The few that are strong opponents are not assassins.
As a Scholastic title, the artwork is shoddy, though it does have some half decent pictures (ie remove half of it and its decent). Then it has the most repugnant, infantile and nauseatingly bad piece of FF related art ever made.
In hindsight, I was overly generous rating this a 1. I believe that was down to the very brief part on the shore where you can miss one assassin or vital item without realising it.
|
|
|
Post by philsadler on Dec 29, 2020 5:49:28 GMT
I stopped reading after the pathetic Gates of Death attempt at more anti-white racist, self-hating bullshit.
|
|
|
Post by vastariner on Dec 29, 2020 10:42:12 GMT
71 Steve Jackson's Sorcery!: The Crown of Kings 1 3 1 2 2 1 7 8 TOTAL 10 / FF 1...and as an ending to a supposed "Epic!" it is a major anti-climax. You know you need to do a certain something as the Wizard, and as the Warrior, its a rather easy fight. The legendary John Blanche saves it somewhat with his artwork, but not enough to stave off the boredom this final volume generates. I think getting there means you deserve an easy fight - and it's only easy if you're quick. Maybe it is a bit like the nuclear codes? For a long time the password to get into the US portable nuclear bomb key was 000000. On the basis that it was so heavily guarded that anyone who got that far was going to be able to crack it anyway.
|
|
|
Post by vastariner on Dec 29, 2020 10:44:33 GMT
76 Appointment with FEAR 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 TOTAL 0 / FF 0 (-10) I loathe the art, cannot stand the simplistic writing, and find the strangely easy to miss clues (due to how BORING this is to attempt to read meaning you stop caring after the 3rd paragraph you turn to) a poor gimmick rather than clever design. As for the final super villain - you win because of a mundane piece of everyday electronics?!? Just DIRE... This has the worst art in the entire FF series - I abhor the cover as well, and am probably the only person who finds the crappy Scholastic version to be a vast improvement. Surely the artwork is brilliant? Just the right side of comic book parody. And any book that has Georgie Boy & The Vulture Club and a self-referential throwback is not simplistic writing. Again it's parodying a genre.
|
|
|
Post by The Count on Dec 29, 2020 13:34:38 GMT
I stopped reading after the pathetic Gates of Death attempt at more anti-white racist, self-hating bullshit. That was a clear dig at the typically hypocritical comments made by self righteous low grade "celebrities", of which the author is one and he has made similar comments. I've removed it as you seem to have misinterpreted it completely, and this isn't the place for such things anyway. Edit: I'm intrigued to why someone would jump to such a ridiculous conclusion in the first place, and then not bother trying to justify or discuss it with me, especially after I clarified the nature of the comment. Frankly, it is actually insulting toward me on multiple levels especially when the author of this post has not attempted to justify anything he has accused me of (ie racism and self hatred), knows nothing about me to make such allegations and has never attempted to speak to me about it beyond the rank, baseless accusation. Those who wish to will always be more than welcome to send me a PM to have a rational, adult discussion about it, or any other subject.
|
|
|
Post by The Count on Dec 29, 2020 13:44:36 GMT
71 Steve Jackson's Sorcery!: The Crown of Kings 1 3 1 2 2 1 7 8 TOTAL 10 / FF 1...and as an ending to a supposed "Epic!" it is a major anti-climax. You know you need to do a certain something as the Wizard, and as the Warrior, its a rather easy fight. The legendary John Blanche saves it somewhat with his artwork, but not enough to stave off the boredom this final volume generates. I think getting there means you deserve an easy fight - and it's only easy if you're quick. Maybe it is a bit like the nuclear codes? For a long time the password to get into the US portable nuclear bomb key was 000000. On the basis that it was so heavily guarded that anyone who got that far was going to be able to crack it anyway. Could be, though I couldn't get into the Sorcery! series at all, so by the end of Crown that kind of idea was not appealing.
|
|
|
Post by The Count on Dec 29, 2020 13:50:31 GMT
69 Eye of the Dragon 1 5 5 4 1 0 9 8 TOTAL 16 / FF 1
This is a strange one. The plot makes no sense whatsoever and the balance skews wildly near the end, only for the final encounter to be rather pathetic. Viewed as part of the FF series, it is a massive step backwards. However, viewed in isolation, it is really just a rather basic dungeon crawl similar to the first few books in typical Livingstone style - without the reader hating elements. I can see why this would be good as a starter book, but it wasn't one I enjoyed after years of reading better written and more complex books. The artwork is good and the cover is striking.
|
|
|
Post by The Count on Dec 29, 2020 14:01:23 GMT
68 Starship Traveller 2 2 1 10 2 0 2 1 TOTAL 17 / FF 0
I don't think the FF system as it stands is the best way of representing science fiction. Like most people who grew up reading FF, Star Trek was a tv staple so trying to put the cheesy amusement of the show into a book was going to be difficult. Starting it is a chore with rolling all the crew - and you might as well not bother as if you get in a fight, you've gone the wrong way. The encounters are well balanced but the books lacks atmosphere and comes across as if Steve got bored half way through forgot all about it then slapped an ending on to meet a deadline. Approached differently and it could have worked. The Wizard cover was a major improvement on the original.
|
|
|
Post by Law on Dec 29, 2020 14:03:57 GMT
71 Steve Jackson's Sorcery!: The Crown of Kings 1 3 1 2 2 1 7 8 TOTAL 10 / FF 1This is where things may be mildly controversial. I don't find Sorcery! to be "Epic!" in terms of individual books and as a whole. There is no denying that Steve is a decent writer and knows his way round a complex gamebook, however I find that he tries too hard to make things complex for the sake of it, which ruins the Sorcery! series. The ending is rather feeble and feels like an error - and as an ending to a supposed "Epic!" it is a major anti-climax. You know you need to do a certain something as the Wizard, and as the Warrior, its a rather easy fight. The legendary John Blanche saves it somewhat with his artwork, but not enough to stave off the boredom this final volume generates. You're absolutely right on this count, Count!
While I enjoy the first and third books for their hiking journey atmosphere, I literally had to beef up the encounters in 'Crown' so I didn't suffer an anticlimax-aneurysm from boredom. It involved a proper wizard's duel with the Archmage (no, the wiry-bearded chap is not one of his chamberlains!) and then facing the garrison in a pass when the Samaritans can't fly you all the way back home!
When one has to do so much fanon leg-work, you know the ending is a whimper.
|
|
|
Post by petch on Dec 29, 2020 16:03:06 GMT
I'm enjoying this, particularly the venom and bile aimed at the books at the bottom of your rankings (not necessarily saying I agree with it all as you've ranked some books low I'm rather fond of but your comments are very entertaining to read nonetheless and each to their own!).
I have my own rankings list, but I haven't broken mine down analytically as you have, mine is just based on gut feel of how much I enjoyed each book overall in comparison to the others. As we're sharing, I'll post mine at some point, but I'll wait until you have finished yours as I don't want to interrupt your flow!
|
|
kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,458
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
Member is Online
|
Post by kieran on Dec 29, 2020 17:17:17 GMT
I actually like this aspect. The new combat rules feel more appropriate for wading through a sea of zombies with a baseball bat, or blasting several at once with a shotgun. Just a pity there was zero playtesting.
|
|
kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,458
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
Member is Online
|
Post by kieran on Dec 29, 2020 17:27:39 GMT
Well, 2 of my top 5 have already been named!
|
|
|
Post by The Count on Dec 30, 2020 5:53:09 GMT
67 Crypt of the Sorcerer 4 5 7 1 2 0 2 7 TOTAL 19 / FF 1
On paper, I should love this. It has a decent plot, the writing is a grade above Ian's usual style so clearly a lot more effort went into the prose. It has some really tough encounters, and when you stray from the true path, you don't realise until the inevitable instant death. I have berated the Livingstone tour guide style before, and will do again, but here he really takes you on a sweeping adventure - and it makes sense to visit these far off lands. Ignoring the fights and random penalties, you cannot help get caught up in the atmosphere and feel the tension of the quest.
And therein lies the problem - ignoring the fights and penalties. Enough has been said about the sadistic Raazak encounter as it is. I wonder if he is the codifier for the Mary Poo character on tv tropes? Then the clay golem, the harpoon flies, the lack of provisions / healing, and the poor Bonekeeper. It is enough to break the immersion completely and make you irritated at best with a book that should be highly enjoyable.
|
|
|
Post by The Count on Dec 30, 2020 6:21:35 GMT
66 Caverns of the Snow Witch 4 6 5 2 2 2 2 6 TOTAL 21 / FF 2
Proof that Ian Livingstone hates his readers can be found in this. Specifically, the bit tacked on to the end. Where you are forced to go for a tedious slog around all the places Ians previously published FF books were set. Except Fire Island. I suspect the last ferry had gone, and it was off season. Essentially, this is made up of three separate small adventures that are shoved together to make a full length FF book. The initial kill the Yeti quest seems pointless, and is over far too quickly. The titular caverns of the titular witch are also far too short, making them feel more like a small cave. Neither encounter with the boring baddie are in any way satisfying - the second one is just utterly ridiculous. A game of rock-paper-scissors? The enforced companions are irritating, and do nothing to improve the second half where the relentless tough encounters and mandatory tour turn an already mediocre book into something really quite terrible.
It does have its good points though - making certain choices rewards you by allowing your sorely depleted luck to creep back up to its Initial level, and the Scholastic art is rather good - with an excellent cover that wipes the floor with the sorry specimen Puffin put out. The Warlock version which is essentially just the first half somehow seems to read better, making the full length version seem like a lazy cash grab
|
|
|
Post by a moderator on Dec 30, 2020 13:23:28 GMT
Crypt of the Sorcerer
[...] when you stray from the true path, you don't realise until the inevitable instant death. [...] I'd dispute that, because this book is the zenith of Ian's 'can't be bothered to put interesting encounters on the false trails' phase.
|
|
|
Post by Law on Dec 30, 2020 14:53:38 GMT
66 Caverns of the Snow Witch 4 6 5 2 2 [2] 2 6 TOTAL 21 / FF 2 Still gave you the most enjoyment of the series so far!
|
|
|
Post by sleepyscholar on Dec 30, 2020 16:01:27 GMT
I stopped reading after the pathetic Gates of Death attempt at more anti-white racist, self-hating bullshit. That was a clear dig at the typically hypocritical comments made by self righteous low grade "celebrities", of which the author is one and he has made similar comments. I've removed it as you seem to have misinterpreted it completely, and this isn't the place for such things anyway. I live in a country that is actually racist against white people (and in fact anyone who is not Japanese), so I can only agree with you that this isn't the place for whiny, self-pitying right-wing identity politics.
|
|
|
Post by The Count on Dec 31, 2020 6:19:53 GMT
That was a clear dig at the typically hypocritical comments made by self righteous low grade "celebrities", of which the author is one and he has made similar comments. I've removed it as you seem to have misinterpreted it completely, and this isn't the place for such things anyway. I live in a country that is actually racist against white people (and in fact anyone who is not Japanese), so I can only agree with you that this isn't the place for whiny, self-pitying right-wing identity politics. Erm... okay... making a few massive leaps there... I really don't want to see this thread devolve into other peoples (incorrect) perceptions of what my political views are, or them trying to impose theirs on me. I removed the comment, despite the fact it was based very loosely on something the author said about a current viewpoint, since it was so wildly misinterpreted, and taken as a political point instead of a dig at a rather substandard, smarmy, self righteous author with who I believe should never have been allowed near FF - and not just for his typical vapid witterings as his writing is abysmal. If anyone wishes to discuss politics, please open a new thread in the appropriate section. If has anyone an issue with anything I have said, send me a PM so it can be discussed like rational, reasonable, mature individuals and adults. I do like a good discussion and debate, and these are quite hard to come by thanks to social media. I am now going to carry on with some insignificant minor rants about the lower ranked FF books - I might even get to one I actually enjoy before someone gets properly offended by something worth getting offended over! Or more likely I say something that is actually offensive as Sky Lord mysteriously hasn't been rated yet...
|
|
|
Post by sleepyscholar on Dec 31, 2020 6:22:16 GMT
I live in a country that is actually racist against white people (and in fact anyone who is not Japanese), so I can only agree with you that this isn't the place for whiny, self-pitying right-wing identity politics. Erm... okay... making a few massive leaps there... I really don't want to see this thread devolve into other peoples (incorrect) perceptions of what my political views are, or them trying to impose theirs on me. I removed the comment, despite the fact it was based very loosely on something the author said about a current viewpoint, since it was so wildly misinterpreted, and taken as a political point instead of a dig at a rather substandard, smarmy, self righteous author with who I believe should never have been allowed near FF - and not just for his typical vapid witterings as his writing is abysmal. If anyone wishes to discuss politics, please open a new thread in the appropriate section. If has anyone an issue with anything I have said, send me a PM so it can be discussed like rational, reasonable, mature individuals and adults. I do like a good discussion and debate, and these are quite hard to come by thanks to social media. I am now going to carry on with some insignificant minor rants about the lower ranked FF books - I might even get to one I actually enjoy before someone gets properly offended by something worth getting offended over! Or more likely I say something that is actually offensive as Sky Lord mysteriously hasn't been rated yet... My comment wasn't directed at you. I was agreeing with you.
|
|
|
Post by The Count on Dec 31, 2020 6:39:18 GMT
65 Night of the Necromancer 2 5 5 8 4 1 5 7 TOTAL 25 / FF 2
I like Jonathan Greens writing. He has a lovely turn of phrase. I have probably spelt his name wrong. Once he stopped trying to make his books harder than Crypt, they became more playable. The plot is interesting in theory and there is no doubt that this is beautifully constructed and crafted. Yet, I just don't like this at all. It is inexplicably a bit... underwhelming... and I can't quite figure out why. I have no desire to pick it up again and investigate if something has changed since my last attempt.
The artwork is lovely and I definitely marked that down unfairly as it is doing the heavy lifting here.
|
|
|
Post by The Count on Dec 31, 2020 6:48:48 GMT
Erm... okay... making a few massive leaps there... I really don't want to see this thread devolve into other peoples (incorrect) perceptions of what my political views are, or them trying to impose theirs on me. I removed the comment, despite the fact it was based very loosely on something the author said about a current viewpoint, since it was so wildly misinterpreted, and taken as a political point instead of a dig at a rather substandard, smarmy, self righteous author with who I believe should never have been allowed near FF - and not just for his typical vapid witterings as his writing is abysmal. If anyone wishes to discuss politics, please open a new thread in the appropriate section. If has anyone an issue with anything I have said, send me a PM so it can be discussed like rational, reasonable, mature individuals and adults. I do like a good discussion and debate, and these are quite hard to come by thanks to social media. I am now going to carry on with some insignificant minor rants about the lower ranked FF books - I might even get to one I actually enjoy before someone gets properly offended by something worth getting offended over! Or more likely I say something that is actually offensive as Sky Lord mysteriously hasn't been rated yet... My comment wasn't directed at you. I was agreeing with you. Whether it was or wasn't, it reads as if you are making assumptions about other peoples politics - and an entire country - and I'd much rather not have any further discussion about it in this thread please. As mentioned, happy to do so elsewhere - either in another thread or via PM. If not, I've been working 12 hour shifts with a 3 hour commute home and before going to sleep just want to tell the 3 people reading this thread that I wouldn't even use the pages of Appointment with FEAR as toilet paper if panic buying stripped the shelves at Sainsburys again. Or similar unfunny comments about other books.
|
|
|
Post by The Count on Dec 31, 2020 7:05:17 GMT
64 Port of Peril 3 6 8 6 2 2 3 2 TOTAL 27 / 2
I'm surprised I rated this so highly! Allansias worst tour guide railroads you down a linear path full of amateur mistakes to see various places you've already visited, though without the fun bits. Can't remember that much else about this uninspired, uninteresting, unremarkable drivel. Clearly the start of the dumbing down of the series. With the emphasis on dumb...
I must have liked something about it surely? Or could it be that I had recently attempted Crypt and Caverns while this has remained unread since it was published?
|
|
|
Post by Law on Dec 31, 2020 13:37:48 GMT
64 Port of Peril 3 6 8 6 2 2 3 2 TOTAL 27 / 2
I'm surprised I rated this so highly! Allansias worst tour guide railroads you down a linear path full of amateur mistakes to see various places you've already visited, though without the fun bits. Can't remember that much else about this uninspired, uninteresting, unremarkable drivel. Clearly the start of the dumbing down of the series. With the emphasis on dumb... I must have liked something about it surely? Or could it be that I had recently attempted Crypt and Caverns while this has remained unread since it was published? This book felt like the main game to AoA being the DLC afterthought.
The charm of revisiting central Allansia does wane a bit, like in CoTSW when you realise just how quickly you are travelling.
Writers often have no sense of geography.
|
|