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Post by bloodbeasthandler on Jan 6, 2021 19:40:46 GMT
54 The Riddling Reaver
This was a difficult one. The Reaver as a cameo character is brilliant. A whole book? He loses some of his charm. As a character [cameo or not] he's great, full stop. The cameos in the regular FF books work all the better because he's a familiar antagonist from this book, during which he is encountered here and there ... and it builds up to a climactic ending. 54 The Riddling Reaver
... having 4 different sections makes it uneven and it seems rather forced by the nature of the book itself which makes the plot disjointed. The breaking up of the book into those 4 sections seems forced, perhaps, but I suspect not by the writers but by the editor? With a view to being able to put 'contains FOUR adventures!!!' on the cover? We ignored this artificial sectioning of the book. What difference does it make as one of the players whether you are in something called Act I or Act II? None at all, I'd say. It's more for the benefit of the GM perhaps, to take stock of things? How does it make the plot disjointed? The plot: Initial introduction to the Reaver and beginning of quest-> A treasure hunt -> a sea journey -> a jungle trek and getting into the temple -> gaining entry to the Reaver's lair -> the final showdown. What is disjointed about any of that? It all seems to follow on logically? It's clear the book is all one adventure and not four, and the option put forward in the introduction 'you may if you wish, decide to play them separately' is obvious lunacy. Again I question if PM or SW had that idea or if the publishers or SJ did. 54 The Riddling Reaver 3 11 12 10 3 3 4 8 TOTAL 42 / FF 2
The opening section is the highlight, with the others becoming steadily worse. The 3rd section is horribly linear in particular. I thought it was good throughout, a shocking and action packed start then a more sedate treasure hunt, but followed by a build-up towards confronting the RR himself in his own territory. The end battle is potentially the best bit, limited only by the imagination of the GM or players. 54 The Riddling Reaver 3 11 12 10 3 3 4 8 TOTAL 42 / FF 2
Considering the nature of the Reaver, a lot of the encounters are rather unimaginative - a lot of spiders in particular. I could not disagree more and at this point am wondering if we are talking about the same book here. Journeying into the guts of some sort of giant living beast, being infiltrated by a traitor, animals rendered into powder and re-constituted on contact with water, a devlin used as the light in a lighthouse, being able to be mutated, or shrunk and fighting a mouse, trapped in paintings, those Icons of good and evil acting as a heart, a powered suit of armour going out of control with the person inside it, stuffed animated sailors, fighting an army of jelly-animated servitors. A lack of imagination is not a charge to be levelled at this book, surely? And there are puzzles to be solved and traps to be avoided or countered throughout. A lot of spiders? I can only think of three, only two of which are forced encounters, really, and do not seem out of place at all. 54 The Riddling Reaver 3 11 12 10 3 3 4 8 TOTAL 42 / FF 2
I feel that I have ranked this too highly, as I vastly prefer Sky Lord. Have I entered the Twilight Zone? I think i am going to have a lie down with a warm flannel on my head, lest I begin having to start hyperventilating into a paper bag. A question I hope doesn't come across as impertinent or rude, but... have you actually played the book as it's meant to be played? Properly? Not just read it through? I have fond memories of this one back in 86 or 87 when we played it. Maybe it just 'came at the right time' as some books or films are wont to do to people, but this one had me take an interest in roleplaying that lasted a fair few years. Anyhow - keep up with your reviews!
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Post by The Count on Jan 6, 2021 20:13:01 GMT
54 The Riddling Reaver
This was a difficult one. The Reaver as a cameo character is brilliant. A whole book? He loses some of his charm. As a character [cameo or not] he's great, full stop. The cameos in the regular FF books work all the better because he's a familiar antagonist from this book, during which he is encountered here and there ... and it builds up to a climactic ending. I didn't encounter this book until quite late in the FF run, after encountering him in Slaves and TCT. 54 The Riddling Reaver 3 11 12 10 3 3 4 8 TOTAL 42 / FF 2
I feel that I have ranked this too highly, as I vastly prefer Sky Lord. Have I entered the Twilight Zone? I think i am going to have a lie down with a warm flannel on my head, lest I begin having to start hyperventilating into a paper bag. A question I hope doesn't come across as impertinent or rude, but... have you actually played the book as it's meant to be played? Properly? Not just read it through? I have fond memories of this one back in 86 or 87 when we played it. Maybe it just 'came at the right time' as some books or films are wont to do to people, but this one had me take an interest in roleplaying that lasted a fair few years. Anyhow - keep up with your reviews! I was a player (not GM) before I got a chance to actually read it. I was already part of an RPG group so perhaps as I had been playing a vibrant D&D campaign, this felt rather underwhelming. Sky Lord is much better.
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Post by The Count on Jan 6, 2021 23:11:30 GMT
44 Creature of Havoc 7 13 13 13 5 3 5 6 TOTAL 54 / FF 3
Another book highly rated by the general fandom that I deem overhyped. The "history lesson" info dump at the start would be better used in a different book as it serves no real purpose other than bring an irrelevant bit of world building in a book that due to the premise of the story, you don't know ANYTHING... so immediately, the brilliant idea behind the plot is undermined by its waffling introduction. There is no denying that there is some amazing potential and the initial dungeon section is a masterpiece of gamebook construction. Although the random direction you are forced into at first can be frustrating, as it happens so early in the book, it allows for easier replays. As the dungeon unfolds and you gain more freedom, it becomes more complex - the language puzzle is satisfying to do at first particularly the point where you get a language you don't have the ability to decode. As you get deeper into the dungeon, and closer to the exit, there is the most difficult puzzle where you need to use a bit of slightly out of the box thinking to solve - I agree with the review that if this was deliberate, it was a stroke of genius. Unfortunately, the book becomes much less satisfying once you navigate the tricky dungeon, and as soon as you do the right thing once meeting Grog, it is essentially a quick jaunty skip down the yellow brick road (unless you waste the essential item - and if you do so, you are unlikely to get past the first dozen paragraphs). The final confrontation is decent so winning is quite satisfying, its a shame the amazing beginning is diminished by the introductory essay and the post dungeon part.
The cover is a striking illustration, so why Wizard decided to do a new version of the original Citadel of Chaos cover is bemusing.
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Post by The Count on Jan 7, 2021 0:33:01 GMT
43 Star Strider 5 10 10 18 6 6 5 5 TOTAL 55 / FF 5
Not the best of books, but a fairly enjoyable romp round a sci fi version of the world. Bonus points for (intentionally or not) making a particular section of the tube deadly as using it in real life is a colossal waste of time. The story is solid, the encounters balanced and while not particularly challenging compared to many other books, it makes it easy to pick up and have a quick try. This rates higher than Creature of Havoc as it is more consistent and easier to like overall.
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Post by The Count on Jan 7, 2021 1:14:57 GMT
42 Warlock of Firetop Mountain 4 12 10 17 7 5 5 4 TOTAL 55 / FF 5
Possibly the most overrated gamebook of all time simply because it was the first ever FF, meaning it makes every Top 10 list going. Ignoring nostalgia (for me it was one I read when the series was in the 30s so not a factor), it is a fairly basic dungeon romp set up with some standard dungeon encounters, culminating in a big monster (here a dragon) and the titular Warlock who at this point was not bad or evil, just wealthy. The key puzzle is a good trick and encourages replay, as do the various paths at the start through some Orc guards and a few other creatures where it is mostly difficult to tell if you have gone the right way or taken a wrong turn, as all paths lead towards the next batch of standard dungeon fare in some Undead. Then there is the infamous maze - an exercise in causing frustration to anyone who has not thought to keep a large piece of paper to accurately map it with a good encounter, a decent encounter that doesn't really belong if you really think about it but can be helpful, and an additional layer of irritation from the 3rd. If you made the right choices, the dragon is pointless and the final confrontation with the Warlock is an anti climax. Wherein lies the biggest issue with the book: one early encounter becomes essential for victory and provides an item that makes it far too easy to win at the end - and is actually a major sign that you are on the right path as the previous item pick up monsters were much easier. The Undead section also has you tripping over and accidentally staking a Vampire... which makes no sense. As a first book, its ok. If you come to it later on, its severely lacking. An average entry at best.
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Post by The Count on Jan 7, 2021 1:39:19 GMT
41 Seas of Blood 6 12 13 11 7 6 6 7 TOTAL 55 / FF 6
The overall premise of this is very interesting. A pirate competition where you get a whole crew to rampage around the sea. The writing is solid, although there are a few strange bits. It is a challenge to complete - crew battles are tougher than your own and lack in healing, there is a tricky roll to make near the end and the big battle with the cyclops requires some good decision making. Even though I think the idea of being a pirate adds more to the appeal of this, it is still a decent effort and one worth returning to.
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Post by The Count on Jan 7, 2021 2:00:15 GMT
40 Night Dragon 5 17 14 11 5 4 9 8 TOTAL 56 / FF 4
I think Keith Martin is my favourite ever FF author. He manages to pack a lot into his books, which are incredibly descriptive and just ooze atmosphere. There is no denying that all but one of his books have an incredibly complex structure that combine hubs with linearity leading to an epic, climactic boss confrontation in a way no other FF author could hope to achieve (although Green tried to with his post-Puffin efforts, probably after thinking Ian wrote Legend of Zagor). That he was actually noted Parapsychologist Carl Sargent in real life is a bonus. And while this contains his signature prose and structure, I find this to be a bit of a slog. It does feel like you are making a perilous quest and this is laid on a bit too thick in places, including where you get to add bonuses to your initial stats, while some rule ambiguities spoil things slightly. Using the name "Nevill" is quite jarring as well as it seems like an in joke added as a bet which takes you out of the story, and the additional stats you have to keep track of are ultimately not worth including for the most part as they only have a minor impact. Occasionally during the last 6 months, I've felt like trying this again but instead veered towards other titles instead so it might be one that I'd appreciate a bit more now.
The artwork inside and out is brilliant and needs to be included in the off chance it ever gets republished.
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Post by The Count on Jan 7, 2021 4:33:18 GMT
39 Space Assassin 7 9 9 17 6 8 3 6 TOTAL 56 / FF 5
The story with this goes: the author read Warlock, wrote this and the editors tampered with it. As the second Sci Fi outing, it is already a vast improvement on the wretched Starship Traveller and is quite a pleasant little jaunt. The writing is a bit sparse in places and the planet within a spaceship section a bit odd, but it is good fun and quite entertaining - especially when you get attacked by the cleaners! It is fairly easy, editor added puzzle not withstanding and even that isn't too difficult, and you can do a bit of exploring. I do like the addition of Armour, though Luck is somewhat redundant, offsetting this somewhat. As most battles are almost a formality, those luck points are handy if you somehow get injured, particularly if you only have a Skill of 7 or 8 - any higher than a 9 and it seems unfair on the book! The art is quite good and the cover is a bit dull, though having it frequently used elsewhere doesn't help with this. If Scholastic really wanted to get some kid friendly books in the series that aren't condescending to a toddler, they would be smart to ensure this is republished.
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Post by The Count on Jan 7, 2021 5:13:09 GMT
38 Beneath Nightmare Castle 7 13 15 15 4 4 7 2 TOTAL 59 / FF 5
I have mixed feelings about this. The writing is good and really sets the tone, however it doesn't make for comfortable reading. While this really sets up the atmosphere for a nightmarish trek, there are times that it feels a bit much for my taste, although I don't recall being that bothered by it when younger strangely enough. Perhaps its the parts where you have to fight and kill children. There are some rather interesting parts and there is a real sense of exploring the keep and surrounds. The opening is very intriguing and adds another layer to the story. Encounters are well balanced between fairly easy and fairly tough, though the boss fight fails to be a proper challenge with the essential items. The rather twisted encounter with the Spiked Maiden, strikingly (and misleadingly) portrayed on the cover is probably the most difficult encounter as unlike the phony friendship with tedious Throm, this is a real moral dilemma that you might not even discover until it is too late - and there are a few of these scattered around such as the aforementioned urchin fights. This was targeted at a more mature reader, and the Willpower score reflects this quite nicely - making it possible for your mind to shatter as a result of the horrors you witness is one of the best implemented additional stats. The internal art seems more like it was aimed at little kids though with various blob shaped monsters, the overhyped deleted mutant woman image has greatly inflated the reputation of the drawings, although there are a few decent pieces such as the unspellable one beginning with an S. Very compelling cover.
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Post by sleepyscholar on Jan 7, 2021 11:27:48 GMT
The breaking up of the book into those 4 sections seems forced, perhaps, but I suspect not by the writers but by the editor? With a view to being able to put 'contains FOUR adventures!!!' on the cover? We ignored this artificial sectioning of the book. What difference does it make as one of the players whether you are in something called Act I or Act II? None at all, I'd say. It's more for the benefit of the GM perhaps, to take stock of things? How does it make the plot disjointed? The plot: Initial introduction to the Reaver and beginning of quest-> A treasure hunt -> a sea journey -> a jungle trek and getting into the temple -> gaining entry to the Reaver's lair -> the final showdown. What is disjointed about any of that? It all seems to follow on logically? It's clear the book is all one adventure and not four, and the option put forward in the introduction 'you may if you wish, decide to play them separately' is obvious lunacy. Again I question if PM or SW had that idea or if the publishers or SJ did. 54 The Riddling Reaver 3 11 12 10 3 3 4 8 TOTAL 42 / FF 2
Considering the nature of the Reaver, a lot of the encounters are rather unimaginative - a lot of spiders in particular. I could not disagree more and at this point am wondering if we are talking about the same book here. Journeying into the guts of some sort of giant living beast, being infiltrated by a traitor, animals rendered into powder and re-constituted on contact with water, a devlin used as the light in a lighthouse, being able to be mutated, or shrunk and fighting a mouse, trapped in paintings, those Icons of good and evil acting as a heart, a powered suit of armour going out of control with the person inside it, stuffed animated sailors, fighting an army of jelly-animated servitors. A lack of imagination is not a charge to be levelled at this book, surely? And there are puzzles to be solved and traps to be avoided or countered throughout. A lot of spiders? I can only think of three, only two of which are forced encounters, really, and do not seem out of place at all. Very much appreciate what you're writing here, even though I probably incline slightly more towards the Count's opinion of the book. The story behind the 'four sections' business, as I've mentioned before here and there, is as follows: Steve J came into the office and told us that he wanted to do a book of four adventures for the FF RPG, and would we like to pitch for one? We said yes, we would very much like to. So we went away, and came back very quickly with a pitch for four linked adventures (hard of hearing? Us?). I have no way of knowing who else, if anyone, Steve J spoke to about the book, or whether anyone else pitched anything. I'd be surprised at anyone who was asked not bothering, so I've always assumed that Steve W and I got our pitch in so quickly that Steve J just thought it would save a lot of hassle to accept it in toto. But anyway, you're absolutely right, it's one adventure, written as 4 for no other reason than that Steve J asked us to do four adventures. The option in the introduction to play them separately is obvious lunacy but then, to be fair, so is much of the actual adventure! The Count's right: there are too many spiders (I'm an arachnophobe). Your potted list of the bonkers components of the adventure did give me a nostalgic reminiscence. I mean this was basically what we were going for. I entirely understand The Count's reaction in that if you already played role-playing games and then came to this, it would just seem a bit wacky and forced (I derided Tunnels & Trolls for pretty much that reason). But I'm glad to see that at least one person took the adventure exactly as we intended it: a four-colour rollercoaster ride with moments of slapstick as well as peril. We didn't see the point in making FF role-playing just a simplified facsimile of D&D, so we were trying to achieve a different atmosphere, and if you think about it, it's a development of what we tried to do (and largely failed, Marc took over and did it better, I feel) at Warlock at the time the book was commissioned. It was a long way from the role-playing I was doing at the time (apart from Pendragon, mostly bespoke campaigns/rules, including my own Outlaws of the Water Margin) but we were not trying to foist our gaming on the world, so much as imagine a style that FF readers might enjoy.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,457
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Jan 7, 2021 11:35:42 GMT
39 Space Assassin 7 9 9 17 6 8 3 6 TOTAL 56 / FF 5The story with this goes: the author read Warlock, wrote this and the editors tampered with it. As the second Sci Fi outing, it is already a vast improvement on the wretched Starship Traveller and is quite a pleasant little jaunt. The writing is a bit sparse in places and the planet within a spaceship section a bit odd, but it is good fun and quite entertaining - especially when you get attacked by the cleaners! It is fairly easy, editor added puzzle not withstanding and even that isn't too difficult, and you can do a bit of exploring. I do like the addition of Armour, though Luck is somewhat redundant, offsetting this somewhat. As most battles are almost a formality, those luck points are handy if you somehow get injured, particularly if you only have a Skill of 7 or 8 - any higher than a 9 and it seems unfair on the book! The art is quite good and the cover is a bit dull, though having it frequently used elsewhere doesn't help with this. If Scholastic really wanted to get some kid friendly books in the series that aren't condescending to a toddler, they would be smart to ensure this is republished. Nice to see this and Star Strider earn respectable positions - two of the better SF offerings IMO.
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Post by peasantscribbler on Jan 7, 2021 14:55:42 GMT
41 Seas of Blood 6 12 13 11 7 6 6 7 TOTAL 55 / FF 6
The overall premise of this is very interesting. A pirate competition where you get a whole crew to rampage around the sea. The writing is solid, although there are a few strange bits. It is a challenge to complete - crew battles are tougher than your own and lack in healing, there is a tricky roll to make near the end and the big battle with the cyclops requires some good decision making. Even though I think the idea of being a pirate adds more to the appeal of this, it is still a decent effort and one worth returning to. This was a favourite of mine as a kid, and I still like it a lot. As an adult, I find that the whole slave-trading aspect puts more of a damper on enjoyment. (This may be akin to your experience with killing children in Beneath Nightmare Castle).
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Post by petch on Jan 7, 2021 16:20:02 GMT
Your potted list of the bonkers components of the adventure did give me a nostalgic reminiscence. I mean this was basically what we were going for. I entirely understand The Count's reaction in that if you already played role-playing games and then came to this, it would just seem a bit wacky and forced (I derided Tunnels & Trolls for pretty much that reason). But I'm glad to see that at least one person took the adventure exactly as we intended it: a four-colour rollercoaster ride with moments of slapstick as well as peril. We didn't see the point in making FF role-playing just a simplified facsimile of D&D, so we were trying to achieve a different atmosphere, and if you think about it, it's a development of what we tried to do (and largely failed, Marc took over and did it better, I feel) at Warlock at the time the book was commissioned. It was a long way from the role-playing I was doing at the time (apart from Pendragon, mostly bespoke campaigns/rules, including my own Outlaws of the Water Margin) but we were not trying to foist our gaming on the world, so much as imagine a style that FF readers might enjoy. Funnily enough, I can remember running some sessions of The Riddling Reaver with some of my schoolfriends for pretty much the exact reasons you're saying here...none of them were really roleplayers but I thought they might enjoy it for its fast pace and imaginative encounters. And they did, so hope you can take something from knowing that there were at least a few more of us who took the adventure in the spirit you intended I can remember playing it over a number of lunchtimes over the course of a couple of weeks. My schoolfriends did annoy me a bit in Act 2...as we were playing to the time constraints of the lunchtime period, I think I may have set the scene that the voyage would last the duration of our lunchtime so instead of boldly exploring the Twice Shy as I hoped they would, they spent most of the time cowering on deck, afraid to take on the tricks and traps within. In hindsight that was as much my fault for letting them know the time limit in advance so lesson learned for me, but it was disappointing as some of my favourite encounters in the book were in Act 2! But by the end they'd come out of their shells a bit and got into the whole idea of roleplaying a lot more, which suited me well as I didn't really have a clue how I was going to run the climactic encounter with the Reaver as the text left it purposefully vague. If I remember rightly one of my friends had the bright idea of grabbing a whole load of the powdered animals and chucking them into the Replicanth-creating vat, which resulted a stampede of jelly-armoured reconstituted animals rampaging through the Reaver's lair. I think the Reaver was finally defeated by one of them riding a jellified mammoth through the army of Replicanths protecting the Reaver and barging him into the volcano crater, with the player character dramatically sacrificing themselves as they, the mammoth and the Reaver plummeted to their fiery doom. Those were some fun lunchtimes
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Post by The Count on Jan 7, 2021 20:33:34 GMT
37 House of Hell 7 15 18 7 6 5 9 7 TOTAL 59 / FF 6
Following on from an acid dripping tale of horror to old fashioned Hollywood Satanism. The premise is very much of its time and the tale unfolds like a Hammer Horror film with some very intriguing encounters and an increasingly tense atmosphere. While there is room to explore and the true path is well hidden - I remain convinced there must be a way out of the kitchen hidden somewhere in the text, much like the unflagged CoH secret passage - the Fear mechanic can lead to you losing simply for doing everything right. The final encounters are rather problematic as the essential baddie beating weapon actually adds no bonus unless you have managed to lose a ridiculous number of Skill points, which would lead to you dying long before getting it. This skews the balance somewhat as otherwise it is a tough yet manageable book.
I like that the Warlock version is different enough so you can play it and the book as if they are two different people having two different experiences within the titular house - and it is quite funny that it was one of the first reprints aimed at younger kiddies.
The original cover is amazing. The Wizard effort was abysmal and the Scholastic is strange.
A solid effort.
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Post by The Count on Jan 7, 2021 20:46:35 GMT
36 Rebel Planet 4 15 13 17 5 5 7 6 TOTAL 59 / FF 6
For a Sci Fi effort, this is fairly decent. As a FF, it is average. The premise is OK and relies on the writing to hold it together - and manages to do so until the final act where it runs out of steam somewhat. The cheap rip off of the D battery operated hard plastic light up clubs we all had as 5 year olds in the 80s shows a bit of a lack of imagination which is odd given the author. Having a puzzle is something I like in a gamebook, and this one isn't too difficult. Most fights seem fairly easy - though a couple are made artificially tougher with special rules. Despite its many good points, this does fall a bit flat.
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Post by bloodbeasthandler on Jan 7, 2021 21:33:06 GMT
Your potted list of the bonkers components of the adventure did give me a nostalgic reminiscence. I mean this was basically what we were going for. I entirely understand The Count's reaction in that if you already played role-playing games and then came to this, it would just seem a bit wacky and forced (I derided Tunnels & Trolls for pretty much that reason). But I'm glad to see that at least one person took the adventure exactly as we intended it: a four-colour rollercoaster ride with moments of slapstick as well as peril. I forgot to mention the mass of flesh grubs under the serving cloche. We just KNEW something bad was going to happen but could not resist having a peek... like that Chimaera in the crate. That got let loose too. But I'm glad to see that at least one person took the adventure exactly as we intended it: a four-colour rollercoaster ride with moments of slapstick as well as peril. It wasn't just me, there must have been 7 or 8 from a class of 30 who played the campaign in the end (not all at the same time), and similar to petch's experience it all took place in the lunch hours. Some carried on with roleplaying, others didn't, but for a while it dragged some of us away from the traditional games of football [or British bulldog as the mood took us] which usually happened during sunny lunchtimes. We didn't see the point in making FF role-playing just a simplified facsimile of D&D, so we were trying to achieve a different atmosphere, and if you think about it, it's a development of what we tried to do (and largely failed, Marc took over and did it better, I feel) at Warlock at the time the book was commissioned. It was a long way from the role-playing I was doing at the time (apart from Pendragon, mostly bespoke campaigns/rules, including my own Outlaws of the Water Margin) but we were not trying to foist our gaming on the world, so much as imagine a style that FF readers might enjoy. As you say in your final sentence, it's always a good idea to know your target audience. Any idea on the average age of gamebook readers in 1986? I'd guess about 12 or 13. An adult-themed Call of Cthulhu campaign or WFRP's 'The Enemy Within' might not be fully appreciated by younger PCs or be able to be run properly by a younger DM. Riddling Reaver felt at the time like a step up from the introductory dungeon bashes of The Wishing Well and Shaggradd's Hives of Peril. And I was pleased to see Kallamehr turn up in later FF books. Very much appreciate what you're writing here, even though I probably incline slightly more towards the Count's opinion of the book. I've tried to make a point of telling people I appreciate their work like this, ever since I stupidly missed a chance at a UK Games Expo to talk to Joe Dever. Too late now, sadly.
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Post by tyrion on Jan 7, 2021 21:33:06 GMT
There are a couple of points that you have made that have come up before:
The maze of zagor. I like mazes. This is not a hard maze, and is easy to map. Once you've realised looking for secret doors is pointless, it removes some of the frustrations as well.
The minimum fear score needed in house of hell. Lots of other books need certain stats to complete, I can't see this being a sticking point. I would imagine most failed attempts involve the kitchen or the vampire route. I do wish the kris knife was a proper attack strength bonus though. I play it like it is, even if this is cheating: earlier you get a skill bonus for having a weapon, to counteract the skill penalty for not. When you right the two bosses, you get an additional bonus just for those fights.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,457
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Jan 7, 2021 22:00:10 GMT
There are a couple of points that you have made that have come up before: The maze of zagor. I like mazes. This is not a hard maze, and is easy to map. Once you've realised looking for secret doors is pointless, it removes some of the frustrations as well. Isn't there one secret door that serves as something of a shortcut? Although you're probably best not looking for it rather than run the risk of getting teleported or disturbing a wandering monster.
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Post by petch on Jan 7, 2021 23:22:43 GMT
There are a couple of points that you have made that have come up before: The maze of zagor. I like mazes. This is not a hard maze, and is easy to map. Once you've realised looking for secret doors is pointless, it removes some of the frustrations as well. Isn't there one secret door that serves as something of a shortcut? Although you're probably best not looking for it rather than run the risk of getting teleported or disturbing a wandering monster. I think the quickest way through the maze is to avoid all of the secret doors, not least because as you say most of the time you'll just end up getting disoriented. I don't mind mazes, but the problem I had with the one in TWoFM was that it was largely empty and - unusually for Jackson - free of description which just made it a bit tedious for me. Mind you, part of my problem with it is of my own making as I've always been too lazy to map it and just tried to solve it by trying to remember which references I'd already been to and avoiding them where possible, which is a rubbish way of doing it. My favourite gamebook maze would have to be the Labyrinth in the fantastic At the Court of King Minos from the Cretan Chronicles. The authors there managed to add jeopardy by your needing to solve the maze within a set number of references or your torch would go out, meaning you would have to face the Minotaur in the dark making your final encounter with the beast that much more difficult. Plus exploration of it was fun as various Greek myths were depicted in fresco on the walls at different points, which gave it a narrative thrust of sorts.
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Post by The Count on Jan 7, 2021 23:45:55 GMT
35 Citadel of Chaos 4 15 10 18 7 5 0 2 TOTAL 59 / FF 5
Arguably the most balanced FF book ever, this is in many ways a great improvement on Warlock, and also a bit disappointing in others. The idea behind it is solid but the execution is lacking - there is no sign of a huge army, just a small band of random creatures. Exploring off the true path is more interesting and contains some of the best encounters and locations - the washerwoman ghost, dungeon, wine cellar and wheelies are much more intriguing than the stupidly placed hydra and the vapid wife. Unless you fight Dire himself, the fights are too easy. The spells are well implemented though there are occasions where choosing the spell Steve wants you to is not fun. Overall, it is a decent attempt and you can have many replays without repeating the same paragraphs constantly.
Managed to have two terrible covers under Puffin, a third under Scholastic and a brilliant one from Wizard. Also notable for the Scholastic art being an improvement on the original.
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Post by The Count on Jan 8, 2021 0:40:00 GMT
34 Masks of Mayhem 4 13 15 12 7 8 4 6 TOTAL 59 / FF 6
The idea behind this is a bit daft. The insular ruler of a kingdom goes galivanting about unknown lands to stop an evil sorceress instead of sending a soldier or mercenary. Once it gets going though, you end up in a rather tricky book where not only does following part of what it tells you to do end up being useless despite being quite entertaining, you end up in a rather gripping series of life or death decisions and face an extremely difficult to make roll. Most battles are fair with the big bad being rather weak, nicely explained in the text, though the twist is ruined by the misleading clue so that even if you spot it immediately, you might not get to the right place. Gets an unfairly bad reputation based on the need for one roll, though failing that can be frustrating. Overall, its a good effort and quite enjoyable to play.
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Post by The Count on Jan 8, 2021 0:46:04 GMT
The minimum fear score needed in house of hell. Lots of other books need certain stats to complete, I can't see this being a sticking point. I do take that and how well it is implemented into account, mainly in the "balance" score - which is why Spellbreaker loses a lot of points, and HoH is higher.
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Post by The Count on Jan 8, 2021 1:32:54 GMT
33 Sword of the Samurai 5 14 15 11 8 6 8 8 TOTAL 59 / FF 6
Still in the books that are tricky to rank. This has a very interesting set up with four special skills and two paths through giving it good replay opportunities. At first glance, the choice of skills doesn't seem to favour one over any of the others, though the archery one suggests it will be advantageous, and one of the others can lead to you losing. Maybe they were surplus to requirements. Some brilliant adversaries - the undead samurai from the cover is the most memorable thanks to also getting an internal piece - and several tough battles do make it difficult in places, especially if you choose the wrong path / skill combination and the final battle is either a OTK or gets progressively more difficult. The planes before the boss are a bit strange and seem to rely on guesswork. The Honour stat seems pointless. It has a great atmosphere throughout, though the introduction is lacking and despite being in the same style as the rest of the book.
The cover is unusual in that while it is good, the Wizard cover is even better.
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Post by The Count on Jan 8, 2021 2:10:46 GMT
32 Talisman of Death 6 14 15 11 5 8 8 6 TOTAL 59 / FF 7
A minor outlier here. I have fond memories of this from first reading it, however more recent playthroughs have not been as satisfying. The premise of being whisked to Orb (somewhat annoyingly not Titan) to meet a convenient group of RPG avatars and save the world is a good one, and well implemented for the most part, though seems rather contrived at the start. Once you receive the talisman of the title, the book really hits its stride and you are immersed in a dangerous, strange land with unknown foes, lethal entities sent against you, and some well concealed assistance. Some beautiful writing in places, a tavern set up springs to mind, that really draw you into the story - as do some gruesome death paragraphs. Towards the end however, things become almost sloppy and the book starts to lose its charm. The reset button if you make the wrong decision or fail what seems to be the only luck test of the book doesn't add anything to the story - if anything, it detracts from it - and the final paragraph is a bit of a damp squib. Some very impressive illustrations inside and another one where the cover, while great, is bettered by the Wizard offering.
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Post by The Count on Jan 8, 2021 2:53:42 GMT
31 City of Thieves 6 14 14 14 7 5 5 8 TOTAL 60 / FF 7
Another outlier, and one where it should be at least 2 points lower for its FF ranking score. As a Livingstone adventure, and his second solo effort, there are some of the trademarks we know and moan about: item hunt, linear path, reader hatred (nothing else explains the moronic tattoo). There are also signs of a properly structured gamebook with places to explore and a few red herrings that are not obvious. Once you get into Blacksand itself, there are some interesting encounters, the Lizardine is a favourite, and you do get the sense that you are wandering the streets of a bustling port filled with criminality - with the artwork doing a lot of this. Once you meet Nicodemus, things become a lot more linear. There is the utterly ridiculous baseball game, complete with very unfunny obvious pun and the worst drawing in the book which pulls you out of the story completely. While the rest of the later city does its best to pull you back in, you meet kiddie name guards... the Scholastic stupidity of bum faced monsters and poo smells was signposted as early as this. Heading to the geographically impossible location of Bone's tower, the difficulty in battles ramps up suddenly (another Ian trademark), and rather stupidly, you can have everything you need to win but fail if you didn't waste your time going after a redundant item. Despite this, the final encounter is well put together and feels dangerous. A good book to get your teeth into.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,457
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Jan 8, 2021 10:06:07 GMT
My favourite gamebook maze would have to be the Labyrinth in the fantastic At the Court of King Minos from the Cretan Chronicles. The authors there managed to add jeopardy by your needing to solve the maze within a set number of references or your torch would go out, meaning you would have to face the Minotaur in the dark making your final encounter with the beast that much more difficult. Plus exploration of it was fun as various Greek myths were depicted in fresco on the walls at different points, which gave it a narrative thrust of sorts. I second that, brilliant maze.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,457
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Jan 8, 2021 12:26:03 GMT
The Honour stat seems pointless. Well, it determines whether you can get the Ki-Rin to aid you and a high score makes the final battle easier. The main problem with Honour is it's easy to acquire on one path and very difficult on the other - in fact I'm not sure it's even possible to acquire enough points to get the Ki-Rin on the hard path. This means your initial decision determines how difficult the Tourney of the Planes and the final battle will be. Perhaps this was the intention of the authors and I suppose it could be argued to be a clever design feature, but personally I don't like it.
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Post by peasantscribbler on Jan 8, 2021 17:43:29 GMT
I like how the Honour stat is implemented, particularly because you don't know how important it will be or even what function it will serve until the end. I found that the prospect of losing Honour points affected my decision making in interesting ways, particularly near the beginning. The system incentivized certain decisions that I might not have made otherwise, which somehow seems like a good approximation of how real-world honour codes work.
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Post by The Count on Jan 8, 2021 22:30:19 GMT
30 Rings of Kether 6 13 15 18 5 5 3 5 TOTAL 62 / FF 5
So the highest ranking Sci Fi book is one that would be better in another setting. It reads and plays out like a classic 1920s based film noir, with a slight air of mystery. The space elements are well done, yet something is missing in marrying the elements together. The final baddie is underwhelming. However, it is still well balanced and an easy book to play through and replay a couple more times before forgetting about for years.
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Post by tyrion on Jan 8, 2021 23:03:39 GMT
I quite like the sci-fi books, but the illustrations are poor. They all have a certain style, which is fine, but considering the art games workshop put out for rogue trader at roughly the same time, it really is sub standard.
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