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Post by The Count on Jan 10, 2021 20:19:56 GMT
19 Magehunter 7 16 17 14 9 12 3 8 TOTAL 75 / FF 7
Possibly the most complex FF book published, this is a very intriguing tale, and a tough nut to crack. The way the different threads and possibilities are weaved together is so well done, and that part of the book where you are hearing a story that turns out to be yours is genius. Occasionally, the switching between bodies does get a bit tiresome and overall the adventure is too short, however these are minor quibbles. A great book to get your teeth into.
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Post by daredevil123 on Jan 10, 2021 20:39:42 GMT
I think you've skipped number 20.
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Post by The Count on Jan 10, 2021 20:40:53 GMT
18 Stealer of Souls 7 15 15 18 8 12 7 7 TOTAL 75 / FF 7
The first, and easiest, offering from Keith Martin. Slightly less complex and slightly more linear than his later efforts, it still contains his signature descriptive style and gloomy atmosphere, and alternative routes for those that miss the key items. It does seem to be trying to copy earlier efforts by other authors rather than his usual hub based style, but overall it is a solid adventure with some great encounters, and most enemies have lower skills. While a step up from the likes of Forest, it doesn't quite reach the same heights as most Martin books (Revenge would be better if it wasn't so bug ridden). A good bridge between the easier early books and the trickier later ones and fun to play.
The cover is menacing while being subtle and most of the art is great - unfortunately the Spectre (signature Martin monster) looks more like a beefed up zombie or a weak mummy.
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Post by The Count on Jan 10, 2021 20:42:17 GMT
I think you've skipped number 20. I must not have posted it as I spent ages writing it... Its there now, thanks
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Post by The Count on Jan 10, 2021 20:42:42 GMT
17 Master of Chaos 8 16 16 16 8 12 3 7 TOTAL 76 / FF 7
Speaking of Keith Martin, this is more in his signature style. Hubs to explore, descriptive prose, very atmospheric, magic swords to be found yet can be missed without stopping you getting to the end. Starting on a slave ship is a great way to start as you are immediately in danger and immersed in the plot, where you have to think carefully about your decisions. The main hub of Ashkyos is a joy to explore, the notoriety score means you have to think carefully about your actions and has some nice humour once you encounter Jesper and let him go for a quick hook up before leaving. As you get deeper into the Chaos wastes, the adventure does lose some steam, and the now standard post boss fight is present. The wastes allow for some unusual and dangerous opponents while earlier you face weaker, more human foes which adds to the peril. I can't decide if the skills are well implemented or not as a few of them seem to be better than others, but I haven't explored this enough.
The art is for the most part decent, though the cover monster has the distinction of managing to look terrible in both internal and external illustrations.
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Post by The Count on Jan 10, 2021 21:07:50 GMT
16 Moonrunner 7 17 17 17 8 10 3 7 TOTAL 76 / FF 7
Hunting a dangerous war criminal through a gothic horror landscape is an interesting premise for a FF book, and one that I don't think succeeds fully. While it is full of wonderfully atmospheric paragraphs, thrilling encounters and a tightly woven tale with plenty of opportunities to explore other options, it ruins itself with the blatant insertion of an 80s horror film character which is so jarring that it takes you completely out of the book. Which is a shame, especially given the plot threads from Legend of the Shadow Warriors that it carries forward are so well executed, although if you haven't read the former you won't be able to truly appreciate these. The extra skills are well implemented, and some of the creatures and set pieces are beautifully done. Unfortunately, the ending is badly handled and the idea of the Moonrunner isn't properly explored - at least it didn't have the typical cliched 80s horror movie sequel hook.
The artwork and writing complement each other well throughout - to the extent that the same complaints about the shoddily tossed in maniac guard are just as obvious and the impact is again a grating extraction of yourself from the book.
This should really only have gotten a 5 or 6 in my FF rankings and a lower enjoyment score.
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Post by The Count on Jan 11, 2021 15:27:01 GMT
15 Island of the Undead 7 17 18 14 9 14 7 7 TOTAL 79 / FF 7
Most Keith Martin books seem to involve either a powerful wizard or plentiful undead encounters. This combines them both. The island is brooding, murky and full of suspense as is fitting for the location and a Martin book. There are enough creatures beyond the usual fair of skeletons and ghouls to keep things interesting, though the Greater Ghoul is probably a bit too tough despite being average Skill and a normal ghoul would have been sufficient. The element of a mystery that slowly unravels is well implemented and keeps the momentum going. However, there is a lot of ground to cover with a plethora of items to collect making it drag slightly. A devious puzzle and moody artwork adds to the atmosphere. Fairly error free for a post 50 book.
Complementing the atmospheric internal artwork is a striking cover that is somewhat of a spoiler in some ways
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Post by The Count on Jan 11, 2021 15:51:47 GMT
14 Tower of Destruction 7 17 18 13 9 15 5 9 TOTAL 79 / FF 8
It was a coin toss between this and Island of the Undead for 15th and 14th place. The bad points of Tower are more obvious: very linear, several mistakes such as poorly linked paragraphs and items changing names or nature, excessively difficult puzzles and a main premise that doesn't really make a lot of sense in a lot of ways. However, when thinking about it, why shouldn't a demon lord cause chaos and destruction by using a mad, power hungry wizard? Not everything a demon does has to make sense to us. Once you start, the story is compelling - chasing down the titular Tower seems to come to an end very quickly until you realise that it just a mini version, then the quest resumes through a complex hub. The Ice Palace is beautifully described, and having Dark Elves within is unexpected as you'd imagine the usual zombies and undead foes infesting the place. You are rewarded for certain actions that may not appear to be the best option, and you need to think carefully about where to go. A good mix of enemies means there are some tough fights and a few easier ones. The puzzles are incredibly difficult and managing to solve them is a triumph, though proper editorial input would have spotted this and intervened. So while Island of the Undead is a better story, Tower of Destruction is a more satisfying book to complete, giving it the edge here.
The cover is well drawn in realising the strange concept, the internal art is lovely.
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Post by The Count on Jan 12, 2021 3:56:52 GMT
13 Spectral Stalkers 8 16 15 18 8 17 2 6 TOTAL 82 / FF 8
The third and final effort from PDE is one of the most interesting entries in the FF series, and at first seems baffling. On closer inspection, you have an incredibly intriguing and often bizarre tale to navigate. I don't know if the dragon librarian in limbo is a dig at the snooty snippy spinsters that used to think they ran public libraries or an affectionate tribute to the bubbly, busty old dears that really did. Regardless, this really sets the tone for what lies ahead. While nicely written and incredibly imaginative, a lot of it seems to be wasted. While your random trek does get you to most places eventually, some are far too brief to bother with and while others have more to see, its not worthwhile as this is the second book where the Fighting part is pretty much irrelevant as you do not need to fight at all to win. Those encounters that you do have off the true path range from average through extremely weak to completely avoidable - so if you want to bother with rolling stats you might as well just go for 7/14/7 anyway. While the trail stat should build up some tension, as soon as you realise that the Stalkers aren't a real threat, you can ignore them as well, although it does potentially give a very easy roll a wee bit of difficulty. There are some minor puzzles to solve, and they are mostly very easy (such as the pawn game) though a trickier one awaits near the endgame. How you defeat the baddie, who is irrelevant for most of the book, is quite clever. Fittingly for such a strange book, the cover is weird. The internal art is nicely done. Overall, it is a very good book to play, but its also what should easily be a Top 3 book, the potential squandered with not fully committing to the idea. Possibly better suited to a Sorcery! type format instead of a singular book. Good fun nevertheless.
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Post by petch on Jan 12, 2021 18:24:32 GMT
I'm sure I'm not the first to say this, but the parts where you use the Aleph in Spectral Stalkers always make me think of the pre-title sequences from an episode of Quantum Leap. As your character manifests in various compromising positions throughout the book I can't help but picture them uttering the immortal 'Oh boy!' line as they realise they're standing on a sacrificial altar or what have you. I think one of the occasions, when you appear in a magician's trick cabinet, was actually used in one of the Quantum Leaps so I wouldn't be surprised if it was one of PDE's chief inspirations for the book.
Nearly at the top ten then! I thought early on that the Count's most controversial placings would be the low rankings he gave to Sorcery!, Deathtrap or Creature, but given that a certain chasms-based adventure has yet to make an appearance I feel the most divisive moment is yet to come...
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Post by The Count on Jan 12, 2021 19:39:40 GMT
12 Fangs of Fury 7 15 16 19 9 17 7 9 TOTAL 83 / FF 8
Another Luke Sharp book that gets a lot of unfair flak. Though I am quite surprised that I rated it so highly in some ways. It is a slightly implausible plot, however you do get caught up in the tale as you are smuggled out of the citadel. Lots of room for exploration of the various different routes, some minor puzzles, a code language and the two different cubes gives a decent adventure with lots of scope for replaying. If anything, its too easy as most encounters are low skill opponents. Cover and art are solid, the bridge orcs with the white cube toting mouse being a favourite of mine. Overall, this is great fun and another one where Scholastic are missing a trick by not republishing.
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Post by The Count on Jan 13, 2021 1:53:28 GMT
11 Trial of Champions 9 15 18 16 8 17 7 9 TOTAL 83 / FF 9
Another Livingstone book that is full of his usual traits: difficult enemies, linearity, lots of items to collect, terse paragraphs and a precursor to the main event that doesn't really achieve much. What is missing (thankfully) is his tour of his other books, and aside from the teleportation room where it tells you you are going the wrong way, its difficult to tell when you take a wrong turn until it is too late - I keep taking the wrong direction after the Trialmaster. Admittedly, this is due to the lack of flowery prose across the book - but this makes sense for two reasons: you are a captured slave given the chance to escape via a dungeon that is almost certain death, and this is a new dungeon compared to the original which was older and you were entering for your own greed and notoriety / fame. The initial arena segment is interesting as all it really achieves if you survive is remove a luck point or two, however it is good for killing off characters with lower skills (or if you make stupid decisions) quite early, so by the time you get onto the main meat of the book, you should have a Sk 10+ character giving you a chance of survival and it is a good way of building your character, and justifying your motivation for the end. The main dungeon itself is wonderfully illustrated to demonstrate how new it is, and where it intersects with existing tunnels, although there are the occasional blips where things seem older than they should be - but it's not that difficult to imagine that this is manufactured, or a result of the manufacturing (go to a building site - the dust created is unbelievable!). The biggest faults are Ian going the same way by default in one place, the Skeleton King riding a horse when there is no room (and making him a king is unnecessary), the silly hobbit who really shouldn't be there, the zombie horde, the complete lack of provisions where giving even just two would have been reasonable and the first Trialmaster being too easy to defeat. The Eastern Warlords sudden appearance is due to him having followed you unseen from an unknown point, likely by going the other way after the Trialmaster and seeing you emerge (as opposed to the DD whataboutery where the nonsense with the ninja needs to be excused by fans). However, despite being more linear, which again makes perfect sense, the dungeon is far more challenging than in DD - leaving one room needs careful consideration about where you are facing, many essential items are well hidden, some options that read like paragraph filler are not and the encounters are a great balance of the FF spectrum of opponents. The Liche Queen is one of the most challenging foes in any FF book despite only being Sk 9, and beautifully set up. The Chaos Warrior (going the wrong way!) and Cold Claw are very atmospheric and difficult fights, yet both have chances to heal soon afterwards. The Ropecutter is a very imaginative scene. Then there is the most devious instant death in the entire franchise late on, and the nonchalant hunchback just before the exit is a nice touch as clearly noone is supposed to survive to that point. The final battle is a rather satisfying way to end the book, although the sequel hook is rather cringeworthy - especially as it turned out to be written as it it was a contractual obligation instead of an engaging gamebook. This book is nonetheless a very challenging adventure, but incredibly satisfying to figure out and defeat.
As good as the Wizard cover is, it's not that different from the internal illustration and a much better choice could have been made - the Liche Queen being an obvious example (even though she is illustrated brilliantly inside as well), the Hill Troll, Fire Demon or Tentallus would be worthy candidates as well having not been illustrated - although a reimagined version of the original cover would have been amazing.
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Post by The Count on Jan 13, 2021 6:21:10 GMT
Well, 2 of my top 5 have already been named! I never thought to ask which two... presumably D.R.E.A.R. is one of them?
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Post by The Count on Jan 13, 2021 6:24:16 GMT
Crypt of the Sorcerer
[...] when you stray from the true path, you don't realise until the inevitable instant death. [...] I'd dispute that, because this book is the zenith of Ian's 'can't be bothered to put interesting encounters on the false trails' phase. I always found I died within about 2 paragraphs of going down a false trail anyway, and right / right / left didn't work if I remember correctly
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Post by The Count on Jan 13, 2021 7:04:09 GMT
55 Sky Lord 5 7 9 9 3 8 2 6 TOTAL 41 / FF 5
Could it finally be a book I actually enjoy? And its... Sky Lord?!? Why, yes it is! This is absolutely insane. It isn't badly written, especially compared to some of the other efforts. The storyline makes no real sense, though the final revenge of L'Bastian is darkly hilarious, especially now the current fashion is for self absorbed idiots to mutilate themselves for social media likes. Most of the encounters are similarly deranged and the roll pitch yaw puzzle section is suitably challenging, and not easy to remember for replays. The trick to this is to remember that the author either wasn't taking it seriously, was on a strange combination of dodgy substances, or wanted to highlight how little attention Puffin paid to the content of the actual books themselves (all too evident with the shocking errors in the later books). The standard fights lean towards being the easier side, while the ship fights are harder making the book fairly balanced. The art is OK and fitting for the book. On my first ever read, I wasn't that impressed. Now, I can appreciate the madness a lot more. I think I may have ranked this too low and the FF ranking is fairer. If I ever redo this, Sky Lord will be much higher!
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Post by The Count on Jan 13, 2021 7:36:06 GMT
So lets kick this off with my least favourite FF book ever... 77 Blood of the Zombies 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 TOTAL 0 / FF 0 (-100)**I wasn't allowed to give this a negative score... I really don't consider this a FF book at all. It is just nonsense. The new fangled "zombies" that are not zombies, the EU country taking dollars when they are Stasi-like on Euros even in some airports, the lack of plot, the non FF rules, the ambiguous counting that means you can win but still lose by not understanding the shite Ian is talking, and the fact that even with infinite stamina, you have at best a 50% chance of winning means this is simply dire... the only saving grace is some lovely internal artwork that frankly deserved to be in a much better book. Frankly, this was an insult to all FF fans and to the legacy of FF when excreted for FF30... (Incidentally, I can't get the excel table to post nicely - if anyone has hints PM me and I'll fix the posts accordingly) Ok, so given that it finished bottom of both the main rankings table and the Count's rankings here, I'm going to attempt to mount something of a defense for poor old Blood of the Zombies. I wouldn't blame anyone if they decided to stop reading this post right here! First off though, the fact that it is impossible to complete with the given rules is indefensible, and I'm not even going to try. It's like Ian finished writing his first draft of the book, thought 'that'll do,' and didn't bother with even cursory playtesting - given that he had created his own bespoke rules for this book, it really wouldn't have taken him much effort to tweak either the rules or your character's starting stamina to make it actually playable and just smacks of laziness on his part. Indeed, while a number of other books in the series have infinitesimally low mathematical probabilities of completing them if playing by the rules, BotZ has the dubious honour of being the only one that is actually impossible - unless I guess you count the missing paragraph trigger in Creature of Havoc as rendering that particular book impossible, which surprisingly would give one of the series' best regarded entries something in common with one of its worst! Similarly, I can't disagree with the Count's point about the ambiguity of the counting requirement, and the necessity of tallying every zombo killed from the hordes that you faced was some irritatingly intrusive numbercrunching in a book that otherwise wasn't exactly a stretch on cranial capacity. Onto the good though. The introduction was effective, atmospheric and pretty damn dark for Ian. Your character is given a brief background, which humanises them a lot more than the empty 'mighty warrior' cipher you play in the majority of the books. The fact that the book has a real-world setting and is the only one other than House of Hell to do so gives it a point of difference. Now, a lot of this promising set-up is lost when the book gets going proper and things get kind of silly, but you know what? I kind of liked that dumbness. I revelled in it. The fact that you play a weedy, malnourished mythology student who suddenly becomes an 80s action movie star, mowing down hordes of undead with whatever weapons come to hand had a satisfyingly bloodspattered, corpse-dismemberingly Sam Raimi-esque knowing daftness to it. Where else in the series do you get to cut down swathes of foes with a mounted Browning machine gun, butcher them with a chainsaw or dive off of a castle battlements as someone fires an RPG at you? As for the main villain, no, Gingrich Yurr's actions or motivations made absolutely no sense. But in keeping with the hyperbolic swagger of the rest of the book, that didn't matter to me. He was a mental cartoon bad guy who did bad things because he was bad, and that was the only justification he needed. When he suicidally injected zombie blood into himself was the icing on the very bloody cake. I'm not trying to say that Blood of the Zombies is, in any credible sense, actually good. It's not, I accept that. But I did find it a great deal of fun (once I'd doctored the rules to make it actually playable by quintupling my starting stamina or something), and more entertaining and memorable than some of the series' more formulaic moments. I don't know what's worse - you defending BoTZ or getting more likes for doing so than any of my posts in my own thread...
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,434
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Jan 13, 2021 8:38:52 GMT
Well, 2 of my top 5 have already been named! I never thought to ask which two... presumably D.R.E.A.R. is one of them? Yep and Crown of Kings the other. The rest of my top 5 didn't do too well either: Deathtrap Dungeon (#47), Portal of Evil (#46) and House of Hell (#37).
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Post by a moderator on Jan 13, 2021 14:06:29 GMT
I'd dispute that, because this book is the zenith of Ian's 'can't be bothered to put interesting encounters on the false trails' phase. I always found I died within about 2 paragraphs of going down a false trail anyway, and right / right / left didn't work if I remember correctly Go the wrong way at the first or second decision, and you won't encounter anything lethal that's not on the One True Path anyway right up until you encounter the Gargantis and autofail.
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Post by The Count on Jan 14, 2021 0:01:37 GMT
10 Scorpion Swamp 7 16 15 20 10 18 4 7 TOTAL 84 / FF 9
The first FF book by Steve Jackson II. With three missions and large number of paths to follow, this is one of the most replayable books. The plot is a bit shaky, and the Poomchucker mission is rather uninspired, especially when you are advised to map the whole thing out anyway, there are too many human encounters inside the swamp (Thief, Ranger, Brigands), and it is rather easy if you make the right choices. The range of encounters is varied with some great monsters - the pool beast, scorpions, dire beast, wolves, swamp orcs and the infamous sword trees. It would have been nice if the easter egg potential of sword tree seeds was used elsewhere. The Masters are all different encounters and can be tricky to navigate regardless of which mission you take, and the various encounters are a mix of weak to strong opponents - the most difficult fights being on the Grimslade mission, and the toughest fights of the book only happen if you make very bad choices. Despite being quite small. there are some lovely corners of the swamp to explore, and you can even go for a swim! Magic is well implemented via the spell gems, and helps keep the different missions varied. The best aspect of the book is where the "if you have been here before..." element comes into effect so you can revisit most areas multiple times without ever hitting the reset button, the Giant is incredibly well done depending on your previous actions. However you go through the swamp, this is enormously fun - want an easy trek, roll high stats and do Seletor, for a challenge do Grimslade 5 amulets on minimum stats.
The art is a bit bright, though this seems to be more of a printing error, and while the Pool Beast looks brilliant on the inside, having the same encounter on the cover is a waste, especially as it isn't as well done. The Dire Beast might have been a better choice as it is not illustrated anywhere.
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Post by The Count on Jan 14, 2021 5:44:33 GMT
9 The Crimson Tide 8 19 19 16 10 18 7 9 TOTAL 90 / FF 9
One of the more experimental books, and in some ways one of the strangest. Starting as a child, you are given the chance to grow and develop as the plot unfolds, and you get to control your destiny. Pretty zen stuff. The oriental influence is evident, without dropping into tired cliches or stereotypes (something SotS didn't quite manage) and the prose if full of lovely details that help you to really soak up the story. Unfortunately, this was one of the only books that any kind of editor bothered looking at, and in doing so made a mess of it by failing to read (and from reading said editors own tedious tome, its clearly not something he is good at), making one choice lead to an impossible fight, when it should merely be a very difficult fight. Luckily, you can win without having to defeat this enemy. What you are otherwise faced with is a complex puzzle that requires careful thought about your options. Enemies are reasonably balanced - you don't start facing truly strong ones until your Skill has increased - and a good mix of human and creatures. The Ferocity stat is well implemented, and this is one of the few books where codewords are not only incredibly well implemented, it's very difficult to tell if a codeword is good or bad. There is a minor carry-on moment where the King can offer you his wood if you make certain choices. Possibly quite forward thinking in creating that path. The continuity nods to BVP, SotS and the Riddling Reaver are subtle enough to enhance the book - you get a sense of a much wider world of which you know little to nothing about as you are focused on your own little corner of it - and you don't have to have read any previous FF books either making them nice easter eggs for fans (and no unsubtle tour guide of the Abyss either, thankfully). When you gradually place the bits of the puzzle together and everything clicks, you have an incredibly zen moment - and this can happen in at least 3 of the endings. You can also choose some the opposite path if you so wish. Aside from the Deaths Messenger looking like a glow in the dark cartoon sticker you would get free from Weetabix or Cornflakes, the art is fantastic, really drawing you further into the plot. The cover is interesting as it seems to be more of a statement of an alternative ending instead of an actual scene from the book, again quite clever world building.
The only thing dragging this down is that the aging aspect doesn't fully work. Granted, it would make for a very long book if there was too much detail, and the revelation that the author thinks the true ending happens about a third of the way through. Despite being tough with low stats, this is one that can be explored extensively on numerous occasions.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,434
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Jan 14, 2021 10:43:09 GMT
Massive spoiler warnings for Crimson Tide in my response here: Unfortunately, this was one of the only books that any kind of editor bothered looking at, and in doing so made a mess of it by failing to read (and from reading said editors own tedious tome, its clearly not something he is good at), making one choice lead to an impossible fight, when it should merely be a very difficult fight. The idea that Marc Gascoigne missed that you start with max Skill:6 Stamina:12 and therefore upped the mudworm's Skill to 12 doesn't make a lot of sense to me: - Even in a standard FF book, Skill 12 enemies are very rare and presented as extremely powerful (with odd exceptions like the birdman in Caverns of the Snow Witch). It seems very odd that Marc would think a Skill 12 therefore appropriate for the mudworm. - Marc's own book Battleblade Warrior had very fair fights for the most part. Although there are powerful enemies (eg the lizardman champion and the dinosaurs), you are clearly not expected to actually beat them in combat. It seems weird that he would do something to someone else's book that he didn't do to his own. - None of the other enemies in The Crimson Tide have similar Skill scores - why up the mudworm's Skill but not bother with the rest? I did once suspect that Marc actually made the mudworm so overpowered to make the book easier since avoiding it puts you on the right path, but that's probably overthinking things a bit. More likely it was just a transcription error or his mind was wandering when he was typing things up or Skill and Stamina somehow got muddled. I would disagree here. Even had the mudworm retained its Skill of 6, that's way too powerful - equivalent to the first enemy having a Skill of 12 in a normal book. Even Ian Livingstone and Jonathan Green wouldn't do that! And even though it's on a false route, Death's Messenger is not and he is equally powerful. Again, it has its issues. Linking it to Stamina was a mistake (also a bit weird - are tougher people angrier?). This means having a high Stamina means you'll probably have a high Ferocity. Yet the correct route requires you to lose 2 Stamina, gain a Ferocity point, fail a Ferocity roll, then fight a Skill 6 Stamina 6 enemy. There is a ridiculously low probability of achieving such a combination. Removing the link between Stamina and Ferocity would help a lot here. True, you can still go for one of the other 2 good endings if you mess up here, but I think these are definitely lesser endings. I do find it strange that you can make your provisions last 6 or 7 years! Maybe they were Twinkies?
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Post by The Count on Jan 15, 2021 0:18:46 GMT
Massive spoiler warnings for Crimson Tide in my response here: Unfortunately, this was one of the only books that any kind of editor bothered looking at, and in doing so made a mess of it by failing to read (and from reading said editors own tedious tome, its clearly not something he is good at), making one choice lead to an impossible fight, when it should merely be a very difficult fight. The idea that Marc Gascoigne missed that you start with max Skill:6 Stamina:12 and therefore upped the mudworm's Skill to 12 doesn't make a lot of sense to me: - Even in a standard FF book, Skill 12 enemies are very rare and presented as extremely powerful (with odd exceptions like the birdman in Caverns of the Snow Witch). It seems very odd that Marc would think a Skill 12 therefore appropriate for the mudworm. - Marc's own book Battleblade Warrior had very fair fights for the most part. Although there are powerful enemies (eg the lizardman champion and the dinosaurs), you are clearly not expected to actually beat them in combat. It seems weird that he would do something to someone else's book that he didn't do to his own. - None of the other enemies in The Crimson Tide have similar Skill scores - why up the mudworm's Skill but not bother with the rest? I did once suspect that Marc actually made the mudworm so overpowered to make the book easier since avoiding it puts you on the right path, but that's probably overthinking things a bit. More likely it was just a transcription error or his mind was wandering when he was typing things up or Skill and Stamina somehow got muddled. I would disagree here. Even had the mudworm retained its Skill of 6, that's way too powerful - equivalent to the first enemy having a Skill of 12 in a normal book. Even Ian Livingstone and Jonathan Green wouldn't do that! And even though it's on a false route, Death's Messenger is not and he is equally powerful. Again, it has its issues. Linking it to Stamina was a mistake (also a bit weird - are tougher people angrier?). This means having a high Stamina means you'll probably have a high Ferocity. Yet the correct route requires you to lose 2 Stamina, gain a Ferocity point, fail a Ferocity roll, then fight a Skill 6 Stamina 6 enemy. There is a ridiculously low probability of achieving such a combination. Removing the link between Stamina and Ferocity would help a lot here. True, you can still go for one of the other 2 good endings if you mess up here, but I think these are definitely lesser endings. I do find it strange that you can make your provisions last 6 or 7 years! Maybe they were Twinkies? I agree to an extent about Ferocity, however as Stamina is the best FF stat to represent you aging, it makes sense - and keeps the book tough. Also helps with the zen.
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Post by The Count on Jan 15, 2021 2:11:09 GMT
8 Demons of the Deep 7 18 16 20 10 19 9 8 TOTAL 90 / FF 9
The highest ranking book by any Steve Jackson, and one with the signature SJII style: multiple paths, good endings with several varying degrees of success, interesting encounters. This was one of the first two or three FF books I ever read, alongside Temple of Terror so it does have some nostalgic pull. The plot seems slightly contrived, however justifying an underwater adventure without it wouldn't have been easy, and thankfully the writing allows you to dismiss this immediately and go with the story. The atmosphere is beautifully created with the prose and the artwork, and the many marine encounters are well placed - Barracudas, assorted fish, Kraken, Shark, Dolphin, Eels, a sneaky Sea Spider, Sea Dragon and assorted Merfolk types - though there is a bit of a strange point where you are asked if you are a Deep One by someone supposedly at war with them. While slightly childish, the Toolfish are brilliantly done and are incredibly useful, and there is a great clue about the significance of the black pearls (and this may even be a nice nod to CoT, as might the Sea Hag). Making the most out of the aquatic environment, you can be pulled by currents, go above or beneath some areas, and explore some coral. Several opportunities to increase or even completely change your stats adds a bit of randomness, but does help you if you roll a low Skill. Most enemies are fairly easy with lower skills but higher stamina than found in other FF fare, though there are some tougher battles (Sea Dragon and Kraken mainly). Atlantis itself is full of great locations, and while you only explore a small part, you do see a lot. As it is so well constructed with the different endings, ways of getting to these endings and plethora of areas to explore, there is a lot of replay. Not as much sheer fun as Scorpion Swamp, however it is a better overall gamebook.
A few of the internal art pieces could be better (the Shark / Dolphin specifically), the vast majority is great. The cover is amazingly executed, especially on a technical level as it looks far more like a photograph of a model than a drawing or painting, and has stood the test of time.
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Post by The Count on Jan 16, 2021 4:42:06 GMT
7 Chasms of Malice 7 18 18 17 10 20 8 8 TOTAL 90 / FF 10
Yes, if it wasn't blatantly obvious, the "mystery" 10 points for this was given by me! You can keep your smelly Deathtrap Dungeon and Nap of the Necromancer. This is an adventure!
I do like a challenging book. There is no doubt that this is a very challenging book, and quite unforgiving thanks to the one strike combats and numerous instant deaths. While these can be viewed as slightly unfair, they are in some ways better than similar mechanics in other books, and add a lot to the tension. While the idea of a 3rd assistant rabbit skinner is laying it on a little thick, it is clear that you are hopelessly out of your depth. Lost in a dark, labyrinthine tunnel complex , facing the menacing Khuddam and hordes of Orcs, Trolls and other creatures to destroy Orghuz, who only you can defeat. It does have an almost epic feel when you look at the bigger picture. At times the prose is quite terse and lacks description of your surroundings but remember, you are not on a sightseeing trip: this is no Ian Livingstone adventure! It is dark, you are in a race against time and proper reading reveals occasions when you have to grope blindly in the gloom, others where you trip and stumble on the ground or piles of bone, and unidentified creatures crawl up your leg. Meeting the Gaddon adds another layer to this and if you learn the cypher, some lovely puzzles to solve, which can be of minor assistance or save you from a gruesome death in the darkness. On occasions where there is light whether it is fire, or lava, you are usually 1-2 paragraphs away from danger. While several of the enemies are standard fantasy fare, there are some unique creatures like the Shadrack, Shimmera and Mist Wraith as well as the Xokusai Orcs. These range from weak to fairly tough, the Khuddam and Orghuz being top tier, and if you choose the wrong route, you can end up doing a lot of fighting. There are a few different ways through, including one where you encounter six of the seven Khuddam, and the number of one strike combats varies. There are things to help you: some spells can be found in places, Tabasha the Bazouk (the only worthwhile companion in the entire FF series) can help you nine times - including restoring your Skill or Luck once - you can learn to sensefight which makes fighting in the darkness easier, and you can make the fight against Orghuz less of an ordeal with careful exploration. Overall, it has a good balance of easy fights and nail biting confrontations. There is a lot of opportunity to replay whether that is to play cautiously to try and sneak through, attempt to find an easier route, try to kill as many Khuddam as possible, or go hell for leather, dooming Gorak to the Malice. Altogether a highly enjoyable yet challenging book, all the more so as it is so under appreciated, and getting through to the end is both immensely satisfying and tremendous fun.
As much as I like the art, there are times it is too bright. The cover is striking and impactful.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,434
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Jan 16, 2021 9:16:49 GMT
I humbly withdraw my hesitant assertion that I may be the biggest Luke Sharp fan on this board!
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Post by The Count on Jan 17, 2021 2:59:04 GMT
6 Slaves of the Abyss 9 20 20 16 8 20 6 9 TOTAL 93 / FF 10
When I first read this, I didn't get it. I hated the cover, and the fact that with each playthrough, I seemed to keep getting killed despite doing everything correctly. So I gave up and returned it to the library. Some time later, I tried it again, and it clicked. Despite being extremely linear, it is a wonderful puzzle that needs careful consideration how to proceed with each stage of the unwrapping. Very sneaky! It is so well written that you don't notice until you reach one of the wonderfully esoteric instant deaths, or one of the more plain yet brutal ones. Unfortunately, there isn't enough about the Abyss itself, or Bythos, to fully appreciate them. Nevertheless, there is an undercurrent of impeding doom throughout as well as an air of mystery, and there are some very disturbing encounters - the Hornet Assassin, Maijem-Nosoth, Quagrant, hand covered in ants emerging from a hole. Fewer fights than some books that range from Skill 3(!) to 11, with more towards the lower end, and as you can discover a way of bypassing certain fights (the only part of the book where the writing fails as it is not subtle about advising this), this throws the balance off heavily in favour of a Skill 12. It is very easy to miss the (unnecessary) killing blow rule as well, until it tells you that you might not have it. As this is a race against time, the time track does the job much better than in other books where it is used. A Riddling Reaver cameo is bemusing - and becomes somewhat amusing when you learn his history with Kallamehr and spot him on the cover. Most of the enjoyment comes from gradually putting everything into place so while there is a lot of scope for replaying I'd only really do so with a Skill of 10 or less if I was confident I remembered the true path. As a book that gets you thinking, it gets so much right.
The cover did take some time to appreciate. Having a similar image inside seems wasteful despite being well done. The rest of the art is great and keeps you immersed in the story.
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Post by petch on Jan 17, 2021 14:05:38 GMT
7 Chasms of Malice 7 18 18 17 10 20 8 8 TOTAL 90 / FF 10
Yes, if it wasn't blatantly obvious, the "mystery" 10 points for this was given by me! Prior to this thread, I did have a suspicion that the 10 for CoM was a typo & whoever had given it had intended either a 1 or a 0!
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Post by The Count on Jan 18, 2021 1:11:46 GMT
I humbly withdraw my hesitant assertion that I may be the biggest Luke Sharp fan on this board! Overall, his books are good. Even though I didn't mention it, I like the subtle way the three Fantasy ones are linked via Astrogal and small continuity nods like the Fangtigers. Unlike others who hit you over the head with an atlas and drag you kicking and screaming round every place ever mentioned in their previous titles...
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Post by The Count on Jan 18, 2021 2:37:59 GMT
5 Vault of the Vampire 9 20 20 17 9 20 10 9 TOTAL 95 / FF 10
I've alluded elsewhere to the fact that I consider Keith Martin to be my favourite FF author, and this book is the primary reason. The plot is like a classic Hammer Horror - and the writing just oozes that dark, majestic gothic atmosphere that these films revelled in. From the outset, you have to make some difficult decisions and there are several routes to take in the first section, each with a distinctive set of circumstances and resulting encounters. Once you reach the castle, there are a couple of places to explore, though the hub design does well to disguise that you are very subtly being steered towards the linear route to the endgame. Although quite small, the castle seems vast and forbidding, it is surprisingly compact. There are some excellent side quests that can help or hinder you, and a plethora of relevant horrors lurking in both rooms you need to examine and those you really shouldn't have. A surprising number of characters you meet throughout the tale can be helpful if deal with correctly, and be a major hinderance if not, including one particularly devious and vampish character who toys with you like a cat does with a trapped mouse in honour of those diaphanous gown wearing iconic seductresses for whom feminine wiles were employed to hide their true strength. By the time you are ready to dispatch the Count, there is little left to uncover, and the tension has built towards a fitting confrontation from which there are several further possibilities, and even an ending in which you win the day by rescuing the girl but ultimately failing in your quest. The final twist is obvious if you have played an earlier optional encounter out a certain way and read things very carefully, unexpected if you haven't, and overall a much better way to end the book. This is something Martin implements in further books with much less success. The Count himself is incredibly tough and you might have to fight him more than once. Fortunately, you have the chance to gather some useful items in one of the main side quests, which includes the first of his typically fiendish puzzles, and some alternatives scattered round. Altogether, you do need to gather a few essential items to win, but each has an alternative elsewhere in the book. You can also get a few magic spells towards the end which are useful, though situational as while getting the right spells makes things much easier if you use them correctly, weaker characters need to keep them for the crypt battle and hope they have found everything else - these paragraphs could have been put to better use and a single use magic ring with one spell (Jandors Bolt) would have been better. Afflictions lead to instant deaths in very specific circumstances, yet have no other real impact so unfortunately are almost forgettable. The Faith stat however is better employed, allowing you to bypass some weaker enemies and save you from instant death. As well as some Undead creatures and Vampiric staples - Zombies, Ghouls, Wraith, Bats, Wolves and the signature Spectre, there is the disgusting Necrotic Jelly, some constructs and the bizarre Tigerskin Rug which is a work of genius as why shouldn't someone who dabbles in the Necromantic arts animate such a thing as an unexpected guardian? Fights are against a good mix of abilities giving a good balance to the book, making it tough, challenging and rewarding - although it is a bit too easy to remember the true path once discovered which leads you to having all the essential items and several spares. What truly brings this to life are the small details: you can get tipsy on a beautiful wine, snack on something resembling a jaffa cake and like a true connoisseur an exquisite brandy is well appreciated. Most of the joy in replaying comes from discovering these little touches scattered throughout, or trying without getting the best of the essential pair which sadly means you do miss at least one amazing encounter.
The cover is so well executed and at once screams classic Vampire and Fighting Fantasy villain. Internal art is beautiful, only let down by the internal drawing of the Count as he looks more like someone in bad fancy dress than an imposing, regal and deadly figure while Natassia is more of a middle aged matron disapproving of your appearance than the lithesome captive. However, illustrations of the Gnome, Katarina, and the Tigerskin Rug make up for this.
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Post by sleepyscholar on Jan 18, 2021 4:50:45 GMT
6 Slaves of the Abyss 9 20 20 16 8 20 6 9 TOTAL 93 / FF 10When I first read this, I didn't get it. I hated the cover, and the fact that with each playthrough, I seemed to keep getting killed despite doing everything correctly. So I gave up and returned it to the library. Some time later, I tried it again, and it clicked. Despite being extremely linear, it is a wonderful puzzle that needs careful consideration how to proceed with each stage of the unwrapping. Very sneaky! It is so well written that you don't notice until you reach one of the wonderfully esoteric instant deaths, or one of the more plain yet brutal ones. Unfortunately, there isn't enough about the Abyss itself, or Bythos, to fully appreciate them. Nevertheless, there is an undercurrent of impeding doom throughout as well as an air of mystery, and there are some very disturbing encounters - the Hornet Assassin, Maijem-Nosoth, Quagrant, hand covered in ants emerging from a hole. Fewer fights than some books that range from Skill 3(!) to 11, with more towards the lower end, and as you can discover a way of bypassing certain fights (the only part of the book where the writing fails as it is not subtle about advising this), this throws the balance off heavily in favour of a Skill 12. It is very easy to miss the (unnecessary) killing blow rule as well, until it tells you that you might not have it. As this is a race against time, the time track does the job much better than in other books where it is used. A Riddling Reaver cameo is bemusing - and becomes somewhat amusing when you learn his history with Kallamehr and spot him on the cover. Most of the enjoyment comes from gradually putting everything into place so while there is a lot of scope for replaying I'd only really do so with a Skill of 10 or less if I was confident I remembered the true path. As a book that gets you thinking, it gets so much right. The cover did take some time to appreciate. Having a similar image inside seems wasteful despite being well done. The rest of the art is great and keeps you immersed in the story. I tend to think that the time track doesn't work. It might have been made to work, but it would have required far more discipline. But the decision to do it was made early in the process, and of course the authors had never written an FF before this, so even when they discovered that it couldn't be executed as well as originally planned, it was too late to ditch it. I think the excuse for it I've generally come up with is that it isn't so much a system element of the book as an aesthetic one: the very act of having to tick the boxes generates a feeling of a race against time, even if the mechanic doesn't really bear this out properly. I can remember nothing about the logic behind the inclusion of the killing blow rule. My guess is that it's nothing more than impatience with FF combat! In any case, I don't think there's any real justification for it. The point about the waste of reproducing the cover internally is very well made. I can't remember why that happened. I wasn't involved in the art on this book (and if you look at the cover of Black Vein Prophecy you can see why!). I liked the cover mainly because it seemed like a deliberate answer to the Riddling Reaver cover that Steve J foisted on us (which completely screwed up the look of the Riddling Reaver). He insisted that a cover had to revolve around a central figure. Slaves used a very different visual dynamic, to disturbing effect. A certain gamebook author who has republished his own books has been suggesting to me that I should republish Slaves. I'm not sure I see the point myself, but it's worth a thought. I'd have to work out which names I was allowed to use, and which I'd have to change (good thing I'm still in touch with Marc). I would certainly want to use the internal art, though.
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