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Post by drmanhattan on Jun 13, 2021 10:47:45 GMT
1. Did you have any quirks of playing? For me, for some reason I always took East/Right by default over West/Left. No idea why. As a right handed, it even makes no sense since turning left would theoretically have your sword arm with more time to react to surprises and be away from the new danger.
2. what did people think of the random item shop stuff. I have been playing blood bones on iPad and realize this annoys me, i always think how the hell do you know if something is useful or required or not. Unless there’s some reasonable logic behind any of it, do you agree?
3. similar to above, how often were “clever” and/or “consistent” decisions really rewarded? I mean in DD for example, investigating or ignoring or tasting or not, or taking or not sometimes leads to good or required things, sometimes to injury or death, did I just miss clues in the text letting you work it out? The only one I remember “reasoning” was the entrance to DD figuring if they just want to kill you on the way in what would be the point but I mean equally if you’re dumb enough to directly take something maybe you’re not cautious enough to survive
4. how many books used the internal illustrations to provide clues or even required info/solutions in them ? Would have been cool if this was more common.
5. Has anyone else ever used combat resolvers? Luck makes it a bit tricky but otherwise for arbitrary skill/stamina you can calculate or easier just iterate to see the % chance to win, and an expectation value for damage lost. You could easily generate some cross tables where you rolled the dice once and looked at a table to get a one roll result, win or loss and stamina lost. Battles can be fun at times but honestly can also be quite dreary. Surprised the iOS versions don’t do this but instead make you rolll round for round with luck option. I didn’t care for Inkles app solution , I’d rather just have a mathematical statistic based table lookup that gives you a one roll outcome including your damage
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Post by bloodbeasthandler on Jun 13, 2021 12:44:19 GMT
1. Did you have any quirks of playing? For me, for some reason I always took East/Right by default over West/Left. No idea why. As a right handed, it even makes no sense since turning left would theoretically have your sword arm with more time to react to surprises and be away from the new danger. Yep! I am right handed and so used to turn right. And I have no more idea than you do as to why that is. If a choice of left, right or straight on, then never straight on. Straight on feels like you are going to miss out and fast-forward onto the next stage without picking up some no doubt essential item. 2. what did people think of the random item shop stuff. I have been playing blood bones on iPad and realize this annoys me, i always think how the hell do you know if something is useful or required or not. Unless there’s some reasonable logic behind any of it, do you agree? .... how often were “clever” and/or “consistent” decisions really rewarded? ... If you are set on going on an expedition to the frozen northern wastes and don't purchase furs, boots, an ice pick and a rope and grapnel to get out of a crevasse ... or go to the desert without suitable clothing and extra water supplies, then as the joker says, you get what you deserve. If anything, FF does not punish the reader enough for those sorts of oversights. As for random items with no apparent use... I see those as a punt, a bet. If we're off to some island archipelago and there's a wizened old man in the city's port flogging a golden conch shell, or an ebony statuette of a kraken, or a ship in a bottle... yeah it might make sense to go for one or two of them and see where they get you. If you fail to buy one and it's a game ender, yes that's frustrating unless you missed a clue somewhere. 3. similar to above, how often were “clever” and/or “consistent” decisions really rewarded? I mean in DD for example, investigating or ignoring or tasting or not, or taking or not sometimes leads to good or required things, sometimes to injury or death, did I just miss clues in the text letting you work it out? The only one I remember “reasoning” was the entrance to DD figuring if they just want to kill you on the way in what would be the point but I mean equally if you’re dumb enough to directly take something maybe you’re not cautious enough to survive I'll have to give a lot more thought into thinking about your first question before giving you an answer, not least because of how many books there were. It might be best to think of specific books and apply this question to them. For the rest of your point, it might be best to not include DD as an example, though, because basically it is a sadistic gameshow where the contestants are given only a very slight 'sporting chance'. Didn't drink that unlabelled potion back there? Then DIE as an undetected trap gets you! [cue audience laughter].So you crawled into a shaft and found a box (with what turns out to be the essential sapphire in it) ... and you proceed onwards in case there's anything else in there? Then plummet to your death as the shaft goes on to plunge you straight downwards!.[cue audience laughter]. DD can be forgiven for this, I'd say, whereas other books might not. What about City of Thieves? The items and ingredients that Nicodemus tells you about are to be found in logical places. 5. Has anyone else ever used combat resolvers? Luck makes it a bit tricky but otherwise for arbitrary skill/stamina you can calculate or easier just iterate to see the % chance to win, and an expectation value for damage lost. You could easily generate some cross tables where you rolled the dice once and looked at a table to get a one roll result, win or loss and stamina lost. Battles can be fun at times but honestly can also be quite dreary. Surprised the iOS versions don’t do this but instead make you rolll round for round with luck option. I didn’t care for Inkles app solution , I’d rather just have a mathematical statistic based table lookup that gives you a one roll outcome including your damage I've never used them and don't think I would anyway, tbh. The use of LUCK in battles is an essential part of it. I use LUCK if enemy has higher SKILL, or has particularly dangerous 'special damage' rule, or as an absolute last resort. 4. how many books used the internal illustrations to provide clues or even required info/solutions in them ? Not enough. I'm very much in favour of integrating text and illustrations. Steve Jackson did it the most I think. I like to see it. |
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kieran
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Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Jun 13, 2021 13:00:37 GMT
1. Did you have any quirks of playing? For me, for some reason I always took East/Right by default over West/Left. No idea why. I used to favour right and now I overcompensate by favouring left. In Stealer of Souls, I think you have the opportunity to buy an ivory carving of a cat. Like why would you? From a gameplay perspective it's as likely to come in useful as more seemingly practical things like rope, but from a believability perspective, it's very silly. The odd example scattered in a few books. Fangs of Fury really goes for the concept although it's easy to miss the necessary instructions. |
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kieran
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Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Jun 13, 2021 13:41:30 GMT
If a choice of left, right or straight on, then never straight on. Straight on feels like you are going to miss out and fast-forward onto the next stage without picking up some no doubt essential item. Although I can think of a couple of books where going straight on is essential to win. |
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Post by philsadler on Jun 13, 2021 14:05:19 GMT
Battles can be fun at times but honestly can also be quite dreary.
That's because, dare I say it, the system itself was a bit weak to begin with. With my books I, especially now, have tried to come up with ways to improve the combat. Steve Jackson, Jonathon Green and Keith Martin were all good at this because, let's face it, if you've killed one goblin, you've killed them all.
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Post by drmanhattan on Jun 13, 2021 16:00:22 GMT
I think a single roll leading to a cost in health would be my preference, it’s just bookkeeping really, maybe more fun managing your healing potions, provisions and bandaging as a resource . What are some combat highlights that standard attack strength rolloffs?
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Post by Peter on Jun 14, 2021 8:36:59 GMT
Always left, like putting out my left hand and trailing it along the wall, with the idea of exploring every area one bit at a time (of course this didn't work as generally you can't go backwards). I tried to avoid going straight ahead, for the same reason bloodbeasthandler says.
I always investigated everything, and learned by trial and error what to avoid. I never let negative outcomes deter me from this habit. It did get frustrating in some books, where you had to learn what to try and what to leave, without any clues.
I feel that playing out battles is part of the game, so I wouldn't use a resolver or a single die roll. And decisions regarding use of luck, or special abilities or items, need to be made round-by-round for the best outcome. And the intense dice-rolling provides a pause in the storyline and allows you to review your status.
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Post by bloodbeasthandler on Jun 14, 2021 18:10:30 GMT
I always investigated everything, and learned by trial and error what to avoid. I never let negative outcomes deter me from this habit. It did get frustrating in some books, where you had to learn what to try and what to leave, without any clues. That's it. Everything. Every ring gets put on, every helmet or suit of armour donned, every potion drunk, every box opened. Every hole gets a hand groping around inside it [no comments on innuendo from you please Count], every curiosity no matter how sinister-looking gets examined and worn if needs be. But I do wish that we as adventurers might be expected to shake pots upside down first in case there's a spider in there, flip the lids of chests from a distance with sword-point and a damp cloth over our faces, or be given the option to poke a stick down a grille or hole in case there's something in there like a mousetrap or a SKILL-devouring little monster. |
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Post by petch on Jun 15, 2021 13:57:54 GMT
4. how many books used the internal illustrations to provide clues or even required info/solutions in them ? Would have been cool if this was more common. For whatever reason I always really liked it when the illustrations were incorporated into the solving of a book too. I believe Space Assassin was the first book to do it with a maths-based floor puzzle, although that particular example was ruined by editorial influence changing the author's intended solution. My other favourites were a neat puzzle in Return to Firetop Mountain where you had to count up the number of gold coins hidden in the piccie, and a particularly devious puzzle in Siege of Sardath that had you take a photocopy of a page for an origami type foldy pagey puzzle (which led childhood me to cut up and deface a now collectors edition book like an idiot). I agree with Kieran that the best example in the series is probably Fangs of Fury which has the concept running throughout, where you have to keep a lookout for mystical cubes hidden in the pictures. Now that I come to think of it though, I don't think I've ever been fully sure how that puzzle was supposed to work - it seems to be kind of left to the reader's interpretation whether you could only count the cubes if you read the paragraph that was represented by that particular illustration, or whether it was enough just to see that illustration by reading another paragraph on the same page? |
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Post by bloodbeasthandler on Jun 15, 2021 19:39:58 GMT
1. Did you have any quirks of playing? For me, for some reason I always took East/Right by default over West/Left. No idea why. As a right handed, it even makes no sense since turning left would theoretically have your sword arm with more time to react to surprises and be away from the new danger. I write 'sword', 'backpack' and 'leather armour' in the equipment box. Almost always a pointless thing to do. |
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Post by drmanhattan on Jun 15, 2021 19:49:24 GMT
1. Did you have any quirks of playing? For me, for some reason I always took East/Right by default over West/Left. No idea why. As a right handed, it even makes no sense since turning left would theoretically have your sword arm with more time to react to surprises and be away from the new danger. I write 'sword', 'backpack' and 'leather armour' in the equipment box. Almost always a pointless thing to do. You say that but my daughter aged 6 is playing wofm with me now and she insisted on writing all that down, she was a bit confused where the lantern came from when we waved it at the start and so far she’s avoided most rooms plus killed wild man and then stabbed the tortured dwarf. Maybe I should start to be concerned |
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Post by bloodbeasthandler on Jun 15, 2021 19:55:53 GMT
I write 'sword', 'backpack' and 'leather armour' in the equipment box. Almost always a pointless thing to do. You say that but my daughter aged 6 is playing wofm with me now and she insisted on writing all that down, she was a bit confused where the lantern came from when we waved it at the start and so far she’s avoided most rooms plus killed wild man and then stabbed the tortured dwarf. Maybe I should start to be concerned Let us know how she interacts later on with the dwarfs who are having having a nice game of cards. Also keep an eye on her at the start of Forest of Doom - see if she instantly attacks old-man Yaztromo at the first opportunity. |
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Post by The Count on Jun 16, 2021 8:31:18 GMT
I always investigated everything, and learned by trial and error what to avoid. I never let negative outcomes deter me from this habit. It did get frustrating in some books, where you had to learn what to try and what to leave, without any clues. That's it. Everything. Every ring gets put on, every helmet or suit of armour donned, every potion drunk, every box opened. Every hole gets a hand groping around inside it [no comments on innuendo from you please Count], every curiosity no matter how sinister-looking gets examined and worn if needs be. But I do wish that we as adventurers might be expected to shake pots upside down first in case there's a spider in there, flip the lids of chests from a distance with sword-point and a damp cloth over our faces, or be given the option to poke a stick down a grille or hole in case there's something in there like a mousetrap or a SKILL-devouring little monster. Even I never thought there was any innuendo in that! Such filth...  I agree, but there should be times where prodding random holes leads to consequences |
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Post by Peter on Jun 16, 2021 8:39:22 GMT
1. Did you have any quirks of playing? For me, for some reason I always took East/Right by default over West/Left. No idea why. As a right handed, it even makes no sense since turning left would theoretically have your sword arm with more time to react to surprises and be away from the new danger. I write 'sword', 'backpack' and 'leather armour' in the equipment box. Almost always a pointless thing to do. Almost always. I never used to bother, as I felt it went without saying. Now I do. It feels like I am describing my character more fully. Perhaps, in a sense, becoming more involved. And as the series progressed, the starting equipment became more varied. Things that were standard in the earlier books, like a lantern or 10 provisions, were not always provided in later books and had to be found before they could be used. I found that I needed to keep track a bit more accurately. |
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kieran
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Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Jun 16, 2021 9:19:27 GMT
For whatever reason I always really liked it when the illustrations were incorporated into the solving of a book too. I believe Space Assassin was the first book to do it with a maths-based floor puzzle I think that's the earliest in the main series, but I think the earliest overall was the Scholar's puzzle in Khare: Cityport of Traps. I had always assumed the former since I think your character needs to physically see the cubes, but yes that could be better explained. |
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Post by a moderator on Jun 16, 2021 14:23:00 GMT
Has anybody checked to see if any of the cube-containing illustrations depict events that occur before it's possible to learn about the white cubes?
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kieran
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Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Jun 17, 2021 14:49:15 GMT
Has anybody checked to see if any of the cube-containing illustrations depict events that occur before it's possible to learn about the white cubes? The illustrations for Sections 1 and 286 don't have any cubes. Neither does Section 39 (where you use the cubes), nor Sections 91, 273 or 299 (which are after you've had your chance to use them). I also can't see any in Sections 104, 143, 247 or 325 though not altogether sure why in those instances. |
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