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Post by Charles X. on Aug 1, 2021 19:48:42 GMT
Would you like to see an FF in which you are a time traveller, which has barely been done in FF with the notable exception of Sorcery! (and possibly Sky Lord)? If so, what time periods would you like to travel to & would it be set in the world of Titan or Earth? I know often when one sees short sketches they don't extrapolate well when they become full-length, but I thought the ZED spell was phenomenal in Sorcery!. I think, as well, the individualist nature of FF which I wrote about in Where Are The Baddies thread would be more interesting than playing an agent as it is in Falcon (for example). My only fear is, if it were tried out, possibly many years from now, it would turn out to produce 'average' books like other sci-fi FF. Or Ian Livingstone would make it ridiculously hard  . |
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Post by a moderator on Aug 1, 2021 20:51:59 GMT
There's also time travel in Spectral Stalkers, Beneath Nightmare Castle and Dead of Night. Arguably Black Vein Prophecy too.
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Post by Charles X. on Aug 1, 2021 21:07:31 GMT
There's also time travel in Spectral Stalkers, Beneath Nightmare Castle and Dead of Night. Arguably Black Vein Prophecy to o. The first three books you cite are widely regarded as above-average, which is all the more reason for the mechanic to appear in more FF, whether briefly or otherwise. The time travel mechanics in Beneath Nightmare Castle and Dead Of Night are impressive and horrifying. I haven't read Black Vein Prophecy. Black Vein Prophecy and Robot Commando are the only two good FFs I haven't read (i haven't read BOTZ either, but that doesn't bother me). |
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Post by daredevil123 on Aug 1, 2021 21:38:12 GMT
There's also time travel in Spectral Stalkers, Beneath Nightmare Castle and Dead of Night. Arguably Black Vein Prophecy to o. also has time travel, if you count frustrating Groundhog Day-esque loops. |
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Post by bloodbeasthandler on Aug 1, 2021 21:40:04 GMT
I'm not necessarily a fan of the time-travelling thing on the whole although I agree with you that it has been well done in the books, Sorcery especially.
Time travel in tv shows can be an excuse to get the cast doing things like dressing up as cowboys and doing a 'western' episode, or a 'what if they met Napoleon?' or 'can World War 2 be stopped?' sort of thing. This isn't all that relevant in FF and you'd have to devote some of the book to showing or playing through what the catastrophe is that needs averting in the first place.
The other reason is to cut costs for the show and instead of having backdrops of spaceships and massive futuristic cities, the cast have an adventure in what looks like the Californian countryside and round the back of the studios, interacting with contemporary Americans. This is irrelevant to written fiction because you can write what you want and there's no effect on any budget.
The other issue for me is that there needs to be a tight logic to it. I mean ... why only go back in time to some crisis point and make things hard for yourself? We see this so much in films and tv - the heroes go back in time to the point where the baddy is about to press the button on the doomsday machine and there's a high-stakes fight on the edge of a chasm etc ... why didn't they go back to when the villain was a child and guide him or her off in another direction in life? Or if there's no other option, get them before they gain power and just smash them in the head with a rock, straight out of the blue? And then there's the paradox caused by the changes too. For all these reasons I don't really care for it at all.
Falcon does it well though, in the 3 books I've read.
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Post by bloodbeasthandler on Aug 1, 2021 21:48:56 GMT
There's also time travel in Spectral Stalkers, Beneath Nightmare Castle and Dead of Night. Arguably Black Vein Prophecy to o. also has time travel, if you count frustrating Groundhog Day-esque loops. That was frustrating because it was poorly done. Better not to have the loop in the first place. Do the monsters resurrect themselves? Does Yaztromo not recognise you when you turn up at his tower? If the author is not going to factor continuity into the gamebook (as was done in Scorpion Swamp) then don't bother - just have a death paragraph where the character dies in Stonebridge with the rest of the dwarves as the Hill trolls overrun the place. |
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Post by daredevil123 on Aug 1, 2021 22:03:55 GMT
The Forest of Doom also has time travel, if you count frustrating Groundhog Day-esque loops. That was frustrating because it was poorly done. Better not to have the loop in the first place. Do the monsters resurrect themselves? Does Yaztromo not recognise you when you turn up at his tower? If the author is not going to factor continuity into the gamebook (as was done in Scorpion Swamp) then don't bother - just have a death paragraph where the character dies in Stonebridge with the rest of the dwarves as the Hill trolls overrun the place. I agree with your points about Forest, but there are a few continuity errors in Scorpion Swamp too. For example, if you go to Grimslade's tower and run away, then head into the swamp and pass the Luck test to get back out, you can visit the tower again and restart the whole process. |
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,678 
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Aug 2, 2021 14:51:32 GMT
Talisman of Death kinda has time travel too.
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Post by Charles X. on Aug 2, 2021 21:02:09 GMT
I'm not necessarily a fan of the time-travelling thing on the whole although I agree with you that it has been well done in the books, Sorcery especially. Time travel in tv shows can be an excuse to get the cast doing things like dressing up as cowboys and doing a 'western' episode, or a 'what if they met Napoleon?' or 'can World War 2 be stopped?' sort of thing. This isn't all that relevant in FF and you'd have to devote some of the book to showing or playing through what the catastrophe is that needs averting in the first place. The other reason is to cut costs for the show and instead of having backdrops of spaceships and massive futuristic cities, the cast have an adventure in what looks like the Californian countryside and round the back of the studios, interacting with contemporary Americans. This is irrelevant to written fiction because you can write what you want and there's no effect on any budget. The other issue for me is that there needs to be a tight logic to it. I mean ... why only go back in time to some crisis point and make things hard for yourself? We see this so much in films and tv - the heroes go back in time to the point where the baddy is about to press the button on the doomsday machine and there's a high-stakes fight on the edge of a chasm etc ... why didn't they go back to when the villain was a child and guide him or her off in another direction in life? Or if there's no other option, get them before they gain power and just smash them in the head with a rock, straight out of the blue? And then there's the paradox caused by the changes too. For all these reasons I don't really care for it at all. Falcon does it well though, in the 3 books I've read. Your post reminds me of Time Tunnel TV series by the famous Irwin 'Lost In Space' Allen. Out of an entire two seasons in which the travellers went somewhere else every episode, there were maybe three episodes set in the future, and even in those the aliens were invariably Irwin Allen trope bad guys in all silver. Irwin Allen was always a really commercial writer, so that's a slightly extreme example\case. It shouldn't be that way, and it often can work well, normally when it's used because it works for the audience, not the other way around (e.g. horror & kids). The notion time travel is about stopping or changing events is fairly modern and twentieth century, and a long throw away from the fictional romance The Time Machine by H.G. Wells. I tend to subscribe to the theory any deliberate attempt to change the past would make the present worse most of the time. |
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Post by sleepyscholar on Aug 4, 2021 16:27:24 GMT
Your post reminds me of Time Tunnel TV series by the famous Irwin 'Lost In Space' Allen. Out of an entire two seasons in which the travellers went somewhere else every episode, there were maybe three episodes set in the future, and even in those the aliens were invariably Irwin Allen trope bad guys in all silver. Irwin Allen was always a really commercial writer, so that's a slightly extreme example\case. It shouldn't be that way, and it often can work well, normally when it's used because it works for the audience, not the other way around (e.g. horror & kids). The notion time travel is about stopping or changing events is fairly modern and twentieth century, and a long throw away from the fictional romance The Time Machine by H.G. Wells. I tend to subscribe to the theory any deliberate attempt to change the past would make the present worse most of the time. I have a long-ago memory of a series called Timeslip, which -- in my memory at least -- was pretty dark and dystopian. But that's by-the-by. What I came here to say was that although the 'anything you do in the past makes things worse' angle is sort of a popular take on things, I think if I were doing time travel I'd be far more interested in the angle whereby an intervention in the past actually does make the world a better place... but makes things worse for the time traveller and hiser nearest and dearest, as individuals. This may be because my ancestors were slave plantation owners (though I should add that because they were were French, and in St Domingue, they lost everything, as against the various existing British families who owe their lands and fortune to slaves). I like the idea of someone going back in time and ending slavery early... making the world a better place, but coming back to the present and discovering that they are no longer the wealthy, privileged type they were when they departed. Changing society has consequences. |
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Post by Charles X. on Aug 5, 2021 20:28:37 GMT
Your post reminds me of Time Tunnel TV series by the famous Irwin 'Lost In Space' Allen. Out of an entire two seasons in which the travellers went somewhere else every episode, there were maybe three episodes set in the future, and even in those the aliens were invariably Irwin Allen trope bad guys in all silver. Irwin Allen was always a really commercial writer, so that's a slightly extreme example\case. It shouldn't be that way, and it often can work well, normally when it's used because it works for the audience, not the other way around (e.g. horror & kids). The notion time travel is about stopping or changing events is fairly modern and twentieth century, and a long throw away from the fictional romance The Time Machine by H.G. Wells. I tend to subscribe to the theory any deliberate attempt to change the past would make the present worse most of the time. I have a long-ago memory of a series called Timeslip, which -- in my memory at least -- was pretty dark and dystopian. But that's by-the-by. What I came here to say was that although the 'anything you do in the past makes things worse' angle is sort of a popular take on things, I think if I were doing time travel I'd be far more interested in the angle whereby an intervention in the past actually does make the world a better place... but makes things worse for the time traveller and hiser nearest and dearest, as individuals. This may be because my ancestors were slave plantation owners (though I should add that because they were were French, and in St Domingue, they lost everything, as against the various existing British families who owe their lands and fortune to slaves). I like the idea of someone going back in time and ending slavery early... making the world a better place, but coming back to the present and discovering that they are no longer the wealthy, privileged type they were when they departed. Changing society has consequences. Any reasonable human being would make the 'Mr. Spock' choice they would lose even their own mother if they believed it was in the best interests in the world. If it would make the world a better place at a stroke, there would be no conflict, and no story. It's just as likely it would be sideways and subjective, like a country which seizes property from the richer classes. Outrageous? Nuts? Or moving from the interests of the rich to the interests of the many? |
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Post by drmanhattan on Aug 8, 2021 14:10:10 GMT
I disagree with your premise. I would let the world end rather than have my children endure a terrible ending for example. But generally, time travel is a boring idea to do properly in FF since it just means loads of extra references, what’s the point, may as well just play the RPG version if you want legacy elements. Time travel snippets already exist in FF with locations or refs that are conditional if you’ve been there before
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