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Post by terrysalt on Nov 17, 2021 1:03:31 GMT
Sword - Kyujutsu - 7/14/7 I challenge three samurai to a duel. The first one kills me. Sword - Kyujutsu - 8/14/7 It was a duel with a different samurai at least. That counts as progress, right? Sword - Kyujutsu - 9/14/7 Oh, um, the sun was in my eyes. That duel doesn't count, right? Sword - Kyujutsu - 10/14/7 With the power of Singing Death and honour coming out of my eyeballs, it was an easy task to eliminate Ikiru and save Hachiman. The fights are really quite reasonable on this path.
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Post by terrysalt on Nov 17, 2021 3:01:50 GMT
Sword - Iaijutsu - 7/14/7 The very first fight in the game proves too much for me.
Sword - Iaijutsu - 8/14/7 The duel with the three samurai seems like the biggest hurdle in the game, at least until you get to the Dai-Oni.
Sword - Iaijutsu - 9/14/7 I botched the raid on Tsietsin's castle and lost Moichi early. Which put me in a bit of a tailspin allowing the undead samurai to kill me while it was invisible.
Sword - Iaijutsu - 10/14/7 Another botched effort, combined with my inability to finish fights quickly enough sees my blood staining Tsietsin's floor.
Sword - 11/14/7 Not having arrows makes the undead samurai a lot harder and a lot more annoying to fight! But after way too much dice rolling, he was defeated and, amusingly, Ikiru went down without a fight as the free hit granted by iaijutsu activated the instant kill.
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Post by terrysalt on Nov 17, 2021 7:02:51 GMT
Sword - Karumijutsu - 7/14/7 As expected, the honourable duel is my downfall. This is going to be tough, it's the equivalent of not choosing any special skill at all.
Sword - Karumijutsu - 8/14/7 Died before the duel this time!
Sword - Karumijutsu - 9/14/7 The duel again!
Sword - Karumijutsu - 10/14/7 An army of skeletons wore me down and defeated me.
Sword - Karumijutsu - 11/14/7 I was able to muscle my way through with stat power alone.
There is only one place to use Karumijutsu in this entire path. You can jump over the skeletons the undead samurai summons and escape. Sadly, doing this means you can't summon the tiger in the monster arena and therefore can't win.
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Post by terrysalt on Nov 17, 2021 9:25:11 GMT
Sword - Ni-to-Kenjutsu - 7/14/7 Would you believe it was the honourable duel? Sword - Ni-to-Kenjutsu - 8/14/7 I failed the raid on Tsietsin's castle and lost my special ability. Then the swarm of skeletons was too much for me. Sword - Ni-to-Kenjutsu - 9/14/7 The undead samurai turned invisible and I couldn't manage to hit him before I died. Sword - Ni-to-Kenjutsu - 10/14/7 The duel is still killing me! Sword - Ni-to-Kenjutsu - 11/14/7 I think once you hit skill 11, it's really hard to lose. It seems to be the point where your stats compensate for the randomness of the dice.
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Post by terrysalt on Nov 17, 2021 10:08:56 GMT
Sword - Fens - 7/14/7 A rokuro-kubi eats my face but honestly, I'm just glad to be fighting different enemies after all those times through the forest. Sword - Fens - 8/14/7 A rather impressive black elk brings an early end to my quest. Sword - Fens - 9/14/7 I suspect this elk will be the equivalent of the duel on the forest path. Sword - Fens - 10/14/7 A totate kumo got me this time. The combat feels a lot tougher along this path. Sword - Fens - 11/14/7 Of course, as soon as I say that I win the next try. I was surprised at how easy the Dai-Oni's monsters were. I thought for sure Gargantus would be a skill 12 but he's actually only skill 9.The low honour hurt less than I expected too. The hardest fight was actually a pair of spiders just before the monster arena. Okay, that's all 5 done! Next up, the disappointing return to Deathtrap Dungeon.
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Post by CharlesX on Nov 17, 2021 10:18:21 GMT
Good luck with TOC I always had a soft spot for it, but in reality, it was always a very average gamebook. I sometimes wondered (tried, once, after rolling it) whether it could be beaten with a 10 24 12 Avatar, but thanks to Champskees, I know the odds are millions to one. I'm waiting for your Passchendale\Somme attempts to beat Crypt and Blood Of The Zombies with minimum stats .
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Post by terrysalt on Nov 17, 2021 10:29:57 GMT
Looking at the stat block for Trials is depressing. 25% for maximum stats. I think this will be the first book to require a superhuman character. Crypt is a whole other story. That is going to take a LOT of attempts! I'm expecting at least 15 skill, probably higher, to avoid Razaak's instant death ability.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,458
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Nov 17, 2021 10:55:37 GMT
There is only one place to use Karumijutsu in this entire path. You can jump over the skeletons the undead samurai summons and escape. Sadly, doing this means you can't summon the tiger in the monster arena and therefore can't win. I always thought that was pretty unfair. It does give you a bonus if you fight the three samurai all at the same time (where presumably you bounce about like Sonic the Hedgehog while fighting them) rather than challenging them to an honourable duel, though I imagine statistically you're still better off doing the latter. Is it any use on the fens path?
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Post by terrysalt on Nov 17, 2021 11:21:58 GMT
You can use it against the kappas to discover their weakness but Champskees' guide recommends avoiding that encounter entirely. Technically you can use it to impress the charcoal burners but it doesn't give you any benefits the other abilities don't have access to. If you don't mind missing the armour in the cave, it also lets you avoid fighting the groundhog which is nice I guess. It's definitely not a great skill to choose.
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Post by a moderator on Nov 17, 2021 15:00:33 GMT
The probabilities for Trial and subsequent Livingstone books are skewed by Ian's making non-stat-related rolls pivotal. In Trial there's a 1 in 3 chance of needing to fail a Skill roll to survive - not such a big deal with your 'choose to voluntarily fail' option, but Champskees' stats must have been affected by the fact that potentially a third of the characters who made it past the Tongue fight were doomed by having a Skill high enough to get them through the book's tougher battles.
The 'roll one die and fail if you get the wrong number' stuff gets worse in Crypt and Armies. What will you do any time you lose because of one of those instances?
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Post by terrysalt on Nov 17, 2021 18:58:58 GMT
Ah, that would explain it. Thanks. My plan is that if I die to a roll that isn't based on a stat, I give myself a reroll as the "stat" that I increase. That reroll would only be used for non-stat-related rolls but wouldn't have to be the same one where I died. So if I died against the harpoon flies, and on my next attempt I survived them, I could use the reroll to avoid my sword getting stuck in the clay golem but not to retry a luck or skill test.
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Post by terrysalt on Nov 17, 2021 20:21:51 GMT
Trial - 7/14/7 That was fast! I failed a skill roll right at the start which meant I had to roll a 6 to survive. I rolled a 4 instead. I guess we have our first ever reroll.
Trial - 7/14/7 - 1 reroll I failed the same skill roll but rolled a 6 this time. A lucky roll let me bring down the bonecrusher first try. Then the Easterner I shared a cell with stabbed me to death with a pin.
Trial - 8/14/7 - 1 reroll I actually hit the Easterner this time. He still killed me though.
Trial - 9/14/7 - 1 reroll I lost a luck point to the bonecrusher and the Easterner knocked me down to 4 stamina. Both of which conspired to kill me as I rolled a 7 on a luck test and was forced to fight a slave that I quickly got overpowered by.
Trial - 10/14/7 - 1 reroll The Easterner got a string of lucky rolls and I'm once again dead in my cell.
Trial - 11/14/7 - 1 reroll I finally made it to the dungeon itself! The start of the dungeon is actually quite easy compared to the qualifying process. Unfortunately, I ran into a coldclaw and after a close fight, was defeated.
Trial - 12/14/7 - 1 reroll I got killed by the Southerner. I was 1 hit away from qualifying for the dungeon but the dice were not on my side.
Looks like I was right. We need to go superhuman. Skill 13 will probably still not be enough to be honest.
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Post by CharlesX on Nov 17, 2021 20:22:07 GMT
Ah, that would explain it. Thanks. My plan is that if I die to a roll that isn't based on a stat, I give myself a reroll as the "stat" that I increase. That reroll would only be used for non-stat-related rolls but wouldn't have to be the same one where I died. So if I died against the harpoon flies, and on my next attempt I survived them, I could use the reroll to avoid my sword getting stuck in the clay golem but not to retry a luck or skill test. So, will it be a single reroll, or one for every failed attempt (for example, with the iron-eater, where you have a 5 in 6 chance of failure)? I can see you making tens of rerolls in the book, before failing of course which is a mockery, but then the book itself is a mockery. You will no doubt be doing the same thing with Masks Of Mayhem. By the way, I personally would place a bet you will not need superhuman or even above maximum stats to complete TOC. It's not crazy hard, and you may paradoxically pass on the strength of a very good Avatar before touching the maximum - which is part of your point, isn't it.
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Post by CharlesX on Nov 17, 2021 20:39:57 GMT
Trial - 7/14/7 That was fast! I failed a skill roll right at the start which meant I had to roll a 6 to survive. I rolled a 4 instead. I guess we have our first ever reroll. Trial - 7/14/7 - 1 reroll I failed the same skill roll but rolled a 6 this time. A lucky roll let me bring down the bonecrusher first try. Then the Easterner I shared a cell with stabbed me to death with a pin. Trial - 8/14/7 - 1 reroll I actually hit the Easterner this time. He still killed me though. Trial - 9/14/7 - 1 reroll I lost a luck point to the bonecrusher and the Easterner knocked me down to 4 stamina. Both of which conspired to kill me as I rolled a 7 on a luck test and was forced to fight a slave that I quickly got overpowered by. Trial - 10/14/7 - 1 reroll The Easterner got a string of lucky rolls and I'm once again dead in my cell. Trial - 11/14/7 - 1 reroll I finally made it to the dungeon itself! The start of the dungeon is actually quite easy compared to the qualifying process. Unfortunately, I ran into a coldclaw and after a close fight, was defeated. Trial - 12/14/7 - 1 reroll I got killed by the Southerner. I was 1 hit away from qualifying for the dungeon but the dice were not on my side. Looks like I was right. We need to go superhuman. Skill 13 will probably still not be enough to be honest. Those are some unlucky rolls. I forgot in my previous post you don't increase Stamina and Luck unless you die via them; which could mean your skill sails up into what satirists would call 'ludicrous', particularly when playing Crypt. I guess you'll be sticking with you model even if you will win Crypt with an adventurer with Skill in the high teens and below-average Stamina - I imagine him looking like The Rock only with limited patience and endurance.
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Post by terrysalt on Nov 17, 2021 21:00:21 GMT
Ah, that would explain it. Thanks. My plan is that if I die to a roll that isn't based on a stat, I give myself a reroll as the "stat" that I increase. That reroll would only be used for non-stat-related rolls but wouldn't have to be the same one where I died. So if I died against the harpoon flies, and on my next attempt I survived them, I could use the reroll to avoid my sword getting stuck in the clay golem but not to retry a luck or skill test. So, will it be a single reroll, or one for every failed attempt (for example, with the iron-eater, where you have a 5 in 6 chance of failure)? I can see you making tens of rerolls in the book, before failing of course which is a mockery, but then the book itself is a mockery. You will no doubt be doing the same thing with Masks Of Mayhem. By the way, I personally would place a bet you will not need superhuman or even above maximum stats to complete TOC. It's not crazy hard, and you may paradoxically pass on the strength of a very good Avatar before touching the maximum - which is part of your point, isn't it.
Every time I die (or make the game unwinnable) by a roll that has no stat tied to it, I gain a reroll. If I've accumulated multiple rerolls, I can burn as many as I need on any particular roll. The iron eater is not directly fatal from memory, so getting hit by that wouldn't get me a reroll, though I could use them to avoid it if I wanted to. For Trials, I just meant that by the rules my skill 12 died in combat so skill is what gets raised. A 12/24/12 would obviously have a much better chance than a 12/14/7 but the next run will be with a 13/14/7.
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Post by terrysalt on Nov 17, 2021 21:04:34 GMT
Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised to see me need something like 15-17 skill for Crypt. And yeah, the stats will probably be very lopsided. I blame that on the series putting so much emphasis on skill to the detriment of the other stats.
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Post by terrysalt on Nov 17, 2021 22:24:59 GMT
Trials - 13/14/7 - 1 reroll I beat the coldclaw but only had 3 stamina left. This meant that, despite passing the skill roll, the damage from the lich queen's gauntlet was exactly enough to kill me. Trials - 13/15/7 - 1 reroll I guess that 1 stamina made all the difference (or I just rolled better this time ) as I made it through and took down Lord Carnuss at the end. The game is actually surprisingly good about restoring your stamina to compensate for the lack of provisions and potion. Never actually used that reroll though, which is disappointing. From the ruthlessness of Ian to the gentle nature of Steve 2. Up next is another one I loved as a kid because dinosaurs and robots. I still like it as an adult because, as I said, dinosaurs and robots.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,458
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Nov 17, 2021 23:25:15 GMT
The start of the dungeon is actually quite easy compared to the qualifying process. I actually think the start of the dungeon is the toughest part of the book: - the hellhound (weak but its special ability may take a few Stamina points off you) - the strider - vampire bats (will automatically take a few Stamina off you) - the coldclaw - the bone devil - the liche queen's test Once you get past all that, the combats ease up and there's some healing to be found, but getting there is an absolute gauntlet.
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Post by terrysalt on Nov 18, 2021 0:00:33 GMT
That's fair, I was only referring to the first 3 which individually are quite easy (I died to the coldclaw on that run after all). Though it's true that the lack of healing until you pass the test with the gauntlet makes the start quite dangerous overall. On my successful run I went from barely scraping by to drowning in stamina boosts after that point.
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Post by CharlesX on Nov 18, 2021 0:09:31 GMT
Odd man out but I found the 2nd half of the dungeon quite tough, with minimal opportunities to restore Stamina the Chaos Champion and other strong enemies would deplete my Stamina if not kill me, and the Fire Imp and Fire Demon, with the latter's special ability, would probably kill a character who made it that far as often as not.
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Post by terrysalt on Nov 18, 2021 0:38:55 GMT
I think it's because my character was high skill, low stamina. The fights were unquestionably tough in the second half but skill 13 could handle them. However, the constant wearing down of my stamina in the first half was as an issue when I only had 15 of it. A more rounded character would probably have struggled with both.
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Post by a moderator on Nov 18, 2021 0:40:41 GMT
As I recall, my most successful 'by the rules' attempt at Trial ended in the fight against the Fire Demon, which is a little anecdotal support for your point.
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Post by terrysalt on Nov 18, 2021 4:12:35 GMT
Robot - Potion - 7/14/7 I'm going to mark this as a failure but with an asterisk. The guide says to use the sonic gun on the man-trap plant but I wasn't sure how it worked against plants, so I just fought it normally and lost. It's an instant win against unprotected humans, deals 1d6 damage to robots and 2d6 damage to dinosaurs. The man-trap plant is none of those. I also decided that the interface transponder didn't do anything as there is no instruction to exceed your initial skill. So with a more generous interpretation of the rules, I could have won.
Robot - Potion - 8/14/7 This was a clean win with no rules confusion. The cure was released into the storm and everyone was cured.
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Post by terrysalt on Nov 18, 2021 6:49:50 GMT
Robot - Robot - 7/14/7 Off to a bad start. Killed by a guard robot in the first city.
Robot - Robot - 8/14/7 Champskees' idea of continually returning to pick up a new robotank when you need a new sonic gun was genius and enabled me to win easily.
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Post by terrysalt on Nov 18, 2021 8:17:19 GMT
Robot - Sword - 7/14/7 I got my butt kicked by the information robot. Fortunately it doesn't kill you, but with only 2 stamina and medkits being hot garbage in this book, I fell to a Karossian soldier. Robot - Sword - 8/14/7 I made it to Minos but since the sword of the state suffers from the same issue as the transponder, I didn't claim the 2 extra skill points and he quickly cut me down. Robot - Sword - 9/14/7 Minos got me again. Robot - Sword - 10/14/7 Minos tore me apart. Robot - Sword - 11/14/7 The king is dead! Long live the king! Not a big fan of this path, it seems a waste not to use any of the robots in the robot game. If I hadn't been such a stickler for the rules as written, it would have been a lot easier though. When I saw what book was up next, my reaction was "I remember nothing about this." Then a moment later: "Oh, wait, is this the Ifor Tynin one?" Turns out it is! So I remember one thing about Masks of Mayhem.
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Post by tyrion on Nov 18, 2021 17:09:55 GMT
Another hard one! Looking forward to see how you do on this.
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Post by terrysalt on Nov 18, 2021 20:18:56 GMT
Another hard one! Looking forward to see how you do on this. At the start of the guide it mentions a 1 in 6 chance to get an essential item. I guess I'll be needing my rerolls for this one!
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Post by terrysalt on Nov 18, 2021 20:33:22 GMT
Masks - 7/14/7 I slept by a lake and a failed luck test later, became food for a kraken. Masks - 7/14/8 The snackin' kraken strikes again. Masks - 7/14/9 The kraken didn't kill me in my sleep! It killed me with its tentacles in combat instead. Ah, progress. Masks - 8/14/9 I rolled a 10 for the luck test. Tyrion wasn't kidding about this being a hard book! Masks - 8/14/10 I killed 2 tentacles out of 5 this time. Maybe this fight is all Robin wrote into the book so he wants to make sure no one gets past it.
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Post by terrysalt on Nov 18, 2021 22:04:11 GMT
Masks - 9/14/10 A failed luck test in a copper mine has me step into thin air and fall to my death.
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Post by terrysalt on Nov 18, 2021 22:55:18 GMT
Masks - 9/14/11 I swear random.org knows what it's doing. I had 11 luck, I rolled a 12. I stepped into the same thin air as before.
Masks - 9/14/12 For the crime of rolling a 4, I was sentenced to burn to death in a field.
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