44) Legend of the Shadow Warriors Solution

[champskees]

After mapping it out, it is obvious that Stephen Hand knew how to write a gamebook. Very well designed, lots of places to go & alternative routes to complete the journey. One of my favourite gamebooks (though I must say that a lot of the 40+ books are fantastic).

This walkthrough is designed for a character with 9+ Skill. Good luck (10+) will help immensely, and you really want decent stamina too (18+ should be fine). The Ring of Agility is highly recommended, as even a 9 Skill character should make almost any skill check roll (33/36 chance with armour). The Chainmail is also fantastic.

- Take 12+2D6 Gold Pieces (Save 3 Pieces for Circus Freaks).
- You would rather leave.
- Visit eastern side.
- Buy (in order):
        o Rope & Grapple (-4 Gold) east side
        o Ring of Agility (-4 Gold) west side
        o 4 Food (-4 Gold) west side
        o Lantern & 1 Additional Skin of oil (-2 Gold) east side
        o Chainmail Armour (-1 to Test Skill, -1 Damage per hit. Takes 10 Hits. -3 Gold) east side
        o 1 more lantern skin (-1 Gold) east side
- You have not yet visited the western side of the market.
- You did not deal with Bartolph.
- You are heading west.
- Buy items (see above)
- Go left.
- You are not carrying a Loaded Die.
- Enter the magician’s abode.
- Go over to the magician’s desk.
- Add Note: Hegmar’s Warning.
- Leave the building.
- Enter the temple grounds.
- Turn the handle in the sun (2 Damage).
- You think the correct answer is the solstice.
- Take Green Leaf Brooch.
- Go right.
- Listen to a man in black who raves and shouts.
- Silence him with your fists.
- Join in & help them restore order.
- Fight Sk 8 St 7 Agitator. Use luck once.
- Take Scroll of Civic Pardon (+1 Luck).
- Leave by the East Gate.
- Approach the East Gate on foot.
- You have a Scroll of Civic Pardon.
- Admit that you cannot hope to fend off all five united and flee. Use luck up to three times in next battle.
- Roll D6:
        o 1: Fight Sk 9 St 9 First Shadow Warrior.
                o Warrior has Two Attacks per round.
        o 2: Fight Sk 9 St 9 Second Shadow Warrior.
                o Each round Roll D6. 5-6 = 2 Damage. Cannot use luck or armour to reduce damage.
        o 3: Fight Sk 9 St 9 Third Shadow Warrior.
                o Deals 4 Damage per hit. Cannot use luck or armour to reduce damage.
        o 4: Test Luck. Fail = Lose Weapon (-1 Skill for battle).
                o Fight Sk 9 St 9 Fourth Shadow Warrior.
        o 5: Test Skill. Fail = Death.
                o Fight Sk 9 St 9 Fifth Shadow Warrior.
        o 6: Roll D6 Again.
- Turn to Para 72.
- Attempt a running jump across the deep ravine.
- Test Skill. Use Ring of Agility. Fail = Death.
- Head east in search of the hermit (+2 Luck).
- Continue on your way (+2 Stamina).
- Try to stop the hermit.
- Fight Sk 5 St 7 Hammicus.
        o After one round of combat:
                o You are still determined to stop him (+1 Luck).
- Add Note: If you kill a Shadow Warrior from now on, turn to Para 223 instead of 335.
- Follow the road back west.
- Keep going westwards. Use luck once next battle.
- Roll D6:
        o 1: Fight Sk 9 St 9 First Shadow Warrior.
                o Warrior has Two Attacks per round.
        o 2: Fight Sk 9 St 9 Second Shadow Warrior.
                o Each round Roll D6. 5-6 = 2 Damage. Cannot use luck or armour to reduce damage.
        o 3: Fight Sk 9 St 9 Third Shadow Warrior.
                o Deals 4 Damage per hit. Cannot use luck or armour to reduce damage.
        o 4: Test Luck. Fail = Lose Weapon (-1 Skill for battle).
                o Fight Sk 9 St 9 Fourth Shadow Warrior.
        o 5: Test Skill. Fail = Death.
                o Fight Sk 9 St 9 Fifth Shadow Warrior.
        o 6: Roll D6 Again.
- Add Note: You have banished a Shadow Warrior (note the number).
- Turn to Para 11.
- You have a Green Leaf Brooch.
- Leave them alone & head for the town centre.
- Do as the woman commands.
- You do not have a mirror.
- Make for the other end of the alley after the woman.
- Veer off and head for the nearest portion of the town wall.
- You have a Rope & Grapple and use it to scale the wall.
- Stay on the Main Trade Route.
- You have a Green Leaf Brooch (+6 Stamina).
- Take Spear of Doom. Note D6+5 Life Force. Can use 1 point of life force to auto kill any enemy.
- You did not come here from Hustings.
- Hurry along and ask the troupe for a lift.
- Ask her to give you a chance to prove your worth.
- Test Skill. If Fail: Pay 3 Gold Pieces.
- Ask the clown about the madness at Gornt.
- Answer no (+1 Luck).
- The name ‘Korin’ does not mean anything to you.
- Search the clown’s wagon.
- Test Luck. Fail = 1 Damage.
- Look at the safe.
- Take 10 Gold Pieces.
- Search the Hall of Dreams wagon.
- You have read Hegmar’s Warning (+1 Luck).
- Rush all nine of them in a surprise attack.
- You have read Hegmar’s Warning.
- Kill D6+2 Mandrakes (from the bottom of the list first)
- If you have any Skins of Oil:
        o Use each one to eliminate 2 Mandrakes.
- Fight Sk 9 St 10 Clown.
- Fight Sk 7 St 7 First Mandrake.
- Fight Sk 5 St 6 Second Mandrake.
- Fight Sk 7 St 8 Third Mandrake.
- Fight Sk 8 St 5 Fourth Mandrake.
- Fight Sk 6 St 3 Fifth Mandrake.
- Fight Sk 9 St 5 Sixth Mandrake.
- Fight Sk 7 St 6 Seventh Mandrake.
- Fight Sk 7 St 7 Eighth Mandrake.
        o Fight them all together.
- Take Ring of Destiny (Do not lose a Luck point when successful in testing luck from now on).
- Search in the stores (+2 Stamina).
- Take Mace (3 Damage per hit, 4/0 if you use Luck, -4 Gold).
        o Obviously you will want to use your luck in combat to prevent damage to you from now on)
- Continue your search in the taverns.
- Use all your remaining gold to buy 3-4 Food (-2 Gold per Food).
- Go to the square.
- You cannot pay the beggar.
- Roll D6:
        o 1: Fight Sk 9 St 9 First Shadow Warrior.
                o Warrior has Two Attacks per round.
        o 2: Fight Sk 9 St 9 Second Shadow Warrior.
                o Each round Roll D6. 5-6 = 2 Damage. Cannot use luck or armour to reduce damage.
        o 3: Fight Sk 9 St 9 Third Shadow Warrior.
                o Deals 4 Damage per hit. Cannot use luck or armour to reduce damage.
        o 4: Test Luck. Fail = Lose Weapon (-1 Skill for battle).
                o Fight Sk 9 St 9 Fourth Shadow Warrior.
        o 5: Test Skill. Fail = Death.
                o Fight Sk 9 St 9 Fifth Shadow Warrior.
        o 6: Roll D6 Again.
- Add Note: You have banished a Shadow Warrior (note the number).
- Turn to Para 48.
- Enter the Forbidden Caves.
- Test Luck.
        o If Fail:
                o 1 Damage.
                o You have a Rope & Grapple.
- Go left.
- Continue around this corner.
- Risk searching through all the things here.
- Take Copper Key.
- Add Note: You may not return to Para 296 again.
- Go straight ahead.
- Open the door.
- You have a Copper Key.
- Add Note: Turn to Para 16 to view Science of Numbers.
- You would rather be on your way.
- Test 4D6 Stamina.
        o Success:
                o Fight Sk 7 St 12 Guignol.
                o Test 4D6 Stamina.
                        • Success:
                                o Leave the camp at once & continue your journey.
                        • Fail: Guignol is dead.
                                o You have a Rope & Grapple.
                                o Test Skill.
                                        o Success: +1 Luck.
                                        o Fail: Fight Sk 11 Pan-Terric Behemoth.
                                                o At the end of each round Roll D6:
                                                        • 1-5: Keep Fighting.
                                                        • 6: Enemy is killed (+1 Luck)
                                                o You can use the Spear of Doom if you have 9+ charges.
        o Fail:
                o Guignol is still alive.
                o Fight Sk 7 St 12 Guignol.
                o You have a Rope & Grapple.
                o Test Skill.
                        • Success: +1 Luck.
                        • Fail: Fight Sk 11 Pan-Terric Behemoth.
                                o At the end of each round Roll D6:
                                        o 1-5: Keep Fighting.
                                        o 6: Enemy is killed (+1 Luck)
                                o You can use the Spear of Doom if you have 9+ charges.
- You have travelled with the Circus of Dreams.
- Add Note: If you guess correctly the first time, you will arrive early.
- Turn to Para 282 to view map.
- Travel to Battle Plains.
- Turn to Para 16 to convert place into numbers.
- Battle Plains = 2+1+2+2+3+5+7+3+1+9+5+1 = 41. Turn to Para 41.
- You have arrived early.
- You haven’t any Metal Rot but are willing try a desperate leap.
- Test Skill. Use Ring of Agility. Fail = Death.
- Face each of the three remaining Shadow Warriors one at a time.
        o Remember you should use luck as much as possible until it is under 7.
        o You can use the Spear of Doom if you have 9+ charges (strongly recommended for no.3).
- You have the Spear of Doom.
- Fight Sk 10 St 10 Voivod.
        o At the end of each round:
                o 2D6 Test Life Force:
                        • Success: You give Voivod life.
                        • Fail: -1 Life Force & continue to fight.
        o You cannot hurt Voivod.
        o Any damage Voivod inflicts on you is added to his total.
        o If you kill Voivod, you die.
- You stand there on the windswept battle plains and put your arm around the old man who is crying with the simple joy of being alive.

[Misomiso888]

Anybody have a solution 'Map' of this book? Looking to see how Stephen hand planned out his adventures and the Flow chart look rather than just the solution.

ty

[HunterSeekerAlgorithm]

Curious for your thoughts, why go for the Ring of Destiny over the Ring of Rabbam, which weakens the Shadow Warriors so they can’t use their special attacks?

[sylas]

LEGEND OF THE SHADOW WARRIORS SOLUTION

Note that this is a very unorthodox approach to victory. Your chances of winning are slim but it does exist (I have no idea how to work out the survival percentage).

Minimum stats are used and only 16 gold pieces (roll 4 on 2d6) are required.
Fights and Tests are taken as being successful unless further explained.

-Leave the tavern.
-Visit the western side.
-Buy the Mirror and Ring of Agility (-5 gold).
-Visit the east side.
-You did not gamble.
-Buy 3 Lantern and Oil, Metal Rot, Rope and Grapple (-11 gold).
-Run from Woad.
-Go right.
-Keep running.
-Keep running again.
-Enter Roggmondo’s.
-Say ‘No’.
-Tell him you are hiding from Woad’s man.
-Leave by the East Gate.
-Hide in the rubbish cart (you have no provisions).
-Pass unhindered.

-Stand and fight (-4 ST).
-Pretend to be dead.
-Test Luck (-2 ST).
-Restore 2 LK for surviving.
-Head for Karnstein.

-Accept the task (note ‘Cerunnos’).
-Make for the town centre.
-Do as she commands.
-You have a Mirror.
-Follow her.
-Head for the town wall.
-You have a Rope and Grapple.
-Go south-west.
-Restore 2 ST.
-Ignore them.
-Try to prove he is an Orc.
-Snatch for the amulet (use a charge from the Ring of Agility).
-Add the Green Leaf Brooch.
-Head back east.
-You have the Green Leaf Brooch.
-Take the Spear of Doom and roll for Life-Force (must roll 5 or more on one die).
-Restore 6 ST.

-Ask for a lift.
-Prove your worth
-Test Skill (use a charge from the Ring of Agility).
-Ask about the Circus.
-Say ‘No’ (+1 LK).
-You know Korin.
-You don’t have Hegmar’s Warning.
-Search the clown’s wagon.
-Test Luck (-1 ST if you fail).
-Look at the safe.
-Take 10 gold pieces.
-Search the Big Top.
-You have a Mirror.
-Set fire to the tent and the messages.
-Attack the Mandrakes.
-Roll 1d6+2 (3-8) to see how many you throw into the fire.
-Even if you roll a 1, you have enough Lantern and Oil to finish them all off.

-Add the Ring of Destiny and restore 2 ST.
-Search the stores.
-Buy Leather Armour (-5 gold).
-Search the taverns.
-Buy Provisions with remaining gold pieces.
-Search the town square.
-Don’t pay.
-Use the Spear to defeat the Shadow Warrior.

-Go south-west.
-Enter the Forbidden Caves.
-Test Luck (-1 ST if you fail, then use Rope and Grapple to climb out).
-Go left.
-Continue round corner.
-Risk searching.
-Take the Copper Key.
-Go straight ahead.
-Open the door.
-Use the Copper Key.
-Free Parcleasus and take the Science of Numbers page then leave.

-Accept his offer.
-Guignol is alive.
-Attack him! Guignol: SK 7, ST 12. If you win, discard your armour.
-Use Rope and Grapple to Test Skill (use last charge from the Ring of Agility).
-Restore 1 LK and eat Provisions.

-You travelled with the Circus.
-Go to the Battle Plains [section 41].
-You are early.
-Throw Metal Rot.
-Use Spear to defeat ALL 5 Shadow Warriors.
-Fight Voivod using Spear. You don’t have to win the fight but at the end of each attack round, roll 2d6 vs the Spear’s Life-Force (must roll equal to or under).
-You give life to Voivod and save the day!

Further notes:
If you roll a 6 for the Spear’s Life-Force, you will need to roll 5 or less when fighting Voivod. If you roll a 5 for the Spear’s Life-Force, you will need to roll 4 or less when fighting Voivod. These are obviously not great odds but even at minimum stats, victory is not impossible.

[Wizard Slayer]

I've recently completed this, and what I found interesting afterwards is that there are two possible main routes to success, with the Hustings one seemingly accepted as being much harder than the Gornt one. Yet I very nearly first completed it on the Hustings route (failing only because I'd used up most of my Spear against the Shadow Warriors, mistakenly believing I would only need one charge against Voivod). When I did complete it, it was the Gornt route (and so glad I didn't miss out on that whole side of the story), but after reading the solution here I'm not 100% convinced that Hustings is all that bad.

I can write out an entire solution if needed, but basically you buy Mirror, Cloak, Lantern, Manacles, Chainmail and Rope & Grapple that costs you 14 gp which is the minimum you can have. With any extra gold, buy plenty of provisions and maybe the Amulet of Luck and/or the Ring of Agility although they're not vital.

Don't bother getting the Leaf Brooch in town but maybe pick up 2 extra provisions using the Ring of Agility. After the hermit, you can get all the way into the caves without a single fight. (You lose your weapon at one point, but can quickly replace it.) Compared to the above, the only fights you get into between leaving the hermit and arriving at Karnstein are:

SMEGG (Sk 8 St 3)
NIGHTMARE MASTER (Sk 9 St 9)
First DARK ELF (Sk 7 St 5) & Second DARK ELF (Sk 8 St 6) together
DARK ELF CULTIST (Sk7 St 10)

There are also no Luck rolls and only one Skill roll (although that's fatal if you fail it, which is why you might want the Ring of Agility. Note that my way you will have avoided the similar roll near the beginning escaping the Shadow Warriors). No extra Shadow Warrior fights- although it means facing all five at the end, by that time you have the Ring of Rabbam so they have no special attacks. No mass Mandrake fight. No Behemoth fight, which is very tricky without using up a precious Spear charge. The Nightmare master is a bit tricky due to the -1 Luck penalty per hit, but you never actually need your Luck after fighting him, and if you've the Amulet you can use that afterwards if you want Luck for combats.

The big problem is that you can't arrive early, so have to take 2D6 x 2ST damage which can easily finish you, but given the weak fights the hope is that you've a lot of armour left at that point. So long as you survive it, the plan is to chow down on Provisions before facing the special attackless Shadow Warriors (with Stamina top ups while you watch them wail and melt after each fight, if you allow yourself that) and finally Voivod himself. 

I'm not saying it's easier than the above solution, but I'm not convinced it's that much harder. I actually wonder if the book has a mistake in it: when you get to Karstein you're asked if you've travelled with the Circus of Dreams (Gornt route) or been a captive of the Orcs of the Black Scorpion (Hustings route), either of which allow you to arrive early and avoid the 2D6 x 2ST punishment. But there's no way to be an Orc captive and get the necessary page from the caves for "arriving early" to mean anything! Well, if it's not a mistake then it's a very clever red herring...

[CharlesX]

I would be extremely interested to see a % comparison for the heartwarming so-called 'true path' route and the alternate interesting-but-non-optimal route you've just described, which has its disadvantages but as you remark is very much left standing on the basis of you arriving on time instead of early.

   If you'd been an Orc captive you hypothetically would have arrived early. It's like saying "if you couldn't go to the meeting because you were ill, or alternatively, if you couldn't go to the meeting because you were abducted by aliens" . Young me was left puzzled at that for some time before realising that was a misleading FF dead end (not quite as bad as some FF errors).

[sylas]

Hustings route is generally harder overall and gives more disadvantages during the second act. Even without special abilities the Shadow Warriors are still a major threat especially if you have to fight all 5 of them. I would recommend taking the route through Gornt instead. Just take a few extra oil skins with you.

[Wizard Slayer]

Mar 28, 2023 13:43:16 GMT CharlesX said:

If you'd been an Orc captive you hypothetically would have arrived early. 

You only arrive early if you travelled with the Circus/were an Orc captive and you guess where to find Vovoid on your first try. Since you can only find him on the first (or second) try if you've the page from the Book of Numbers, it's impossible to be an Orc captive and arrive early. (The book's clear, 'early' only applies to when you reach Voivod, not when you arrive at Karnstein.)

[CharlesX]

Mar 28, 2023 12:54:48 GMT Wizard Slayer said:

I've recently completed this, and what I found interesting afterwards is that there are two possible main routes to success, with the Hustings one seemingly accepted as being much harder than the Gornt one. Yet I very nearly first completed it on the Hustings route (failing only because I'd used up most of my Spear against the Shadow Warriors, mistakenly believing I would only need one charge against Voivod). When I did complete it, it was the Gornt route (and so glad I didn't miss out on that whole side of the story), but after reading the solution here I'm not 100% convinced that Hustings is all that bad.

I can write out an entire solution if needed, but basically you buy Mirror, Cloak, Lantern, Manacles, Chainmail and Rope & Grapple that costs you 14 gp which is the minimum you can have. With any extra gold, buy plenty of provisions and maybe the Amulet of Luck and/or the Ring of Agility although they're not vital.

Don't bother getting the Leaf Brooch in town but maybe pick up 2 extra provisions using the Ring of Agility. After the hermit, you can get all the way into the caves without a single fight. (You lose your weapon at one point, but can quickly replace it.) Compared to the above, the only fights you get into between leaving the hermit and arriving at Karnstein are:

SMEGG (Sk 8 St 3)
NIGHTMARE MASTER (Sk 9 St 9)
First DARK ELF (Sk 7 St 5) & Second DARK ELF (Sk 8 St 6) together
DARK ELF CULTIST (Sk7 St 10)

There are also no Luck rolls and only one Skill roll (although that's fatal if you fail it, which is why you might want the Ring of Agility. Note that my way you will have avoided the similar roll near the beginning escaping the Shadow Warriors). No extra Shadow Warrior fights- although it means facing all five at the end, by that time you have the Ring of Rabbam so they have no special attacks. No mass Mandrake fight. No Behemoth fight, which is very tricky without using up a precious Spear charge. The Nightmare master is a bit tricky due to the -1 Luck penalty per hit, but you never actually need your Luck after fighting him, and if you've the Amulet you can use that afterwards if you want Luck for combats.

The big problem is that you can't arrive early, so have to take 2D6 x 2ST damage which can easily finish you, but given the weak fights the hope is that you've a lot of armour left at that point. So long as you survive it, the plan is to chow down on Provisions before facing the special attackless Shadow Warriors (with Stamina top ups while you watch them wail and melt after each fight, if you allow yourself that) and finally Voivod himself.

Which runs into the perennial FF problem of whether its a legitimate for you wolf down several different provisions in the space of thirty seconds between fights.

[Wizard Slayer]

Mar 28, 2023 14:30:58 GMT sylas said:

Hustings route is generally harder overall and gives more disadvantages during the second act. Even without special abilities the Shadow Warriors are still a major threat especially if you have to fight all 5 of them. I would recommend taking the route through Gornt instead. Just take a few extra oil skins with you.

You have to fight all 5 of the Shadow Warriors no matter what (plus one twice). But the Husting's way, they won't have any special abilities except when you face one at the pass.

And considering that facing the Fifth Shadow Warrior involves a potentially fatal Skill test, and he could be faced twice, that means the Hustings route involves a maximum of two such tests (one if you face the Warrior at the pass, one in the caves) while the Gornt route can require FOUR (Shadow Warrior twice, leaping to escape, jumping at Voivod), plus a Skill roll to avoid fighting the Behemoth. And the Ring of Agility only works three times.

There's also the Warrior who can smash away your weapon if you fail a Luck roll (and the text says nothing about getting it back after, so it's permanent loss), meaning a potential loss of a Skill point right at the very beginning of the final showdown if you face him first. If you have chainmail too, you could end up facing the fifth warrior right near the end of the book and having to take that fatal Skill test with a -2 penalty!

The Ring of Destiny is obviously helpful in battle, but only while you stay Lucky. If you're on 12 Luck then you're pretty much sorted, but otherwise the more you Test Your Luck, the more chances of dropping Luck points and risking a runaway unlucky streak where the ring is no help at all.

[Wizard Slayer]

Mar 28, 2023 13:43:16 GMT CharlesX said:

I would be extremely interested to see a % comparison for the heartwarming so-called 'true path' route and the alternate interesting-but-non-optimal route you've just described, which has its disadvantages but as you remark is very much left standing on the basis of you arriving on time instead of early.

I'm definitely going to have a go at working out the chances for the route I'm thinking of, but it'll take a bit of time.

[Wizard Slayer]

Mar 28, 2023 15:06:21 GMT CharlesX said:

Which runs into the perennial FF problem of whether its a legitimate for you wolf down several different provisions in the space of thirty seconds between fights.

Indeed, but the rules obviously permit it though! And if the Orc thing was a mistake and not deliberate, then all's fair.

I was good - on my winning playthrough (Gornt path) I only allowed myself one meal between Warriors, taken while they did their melty-waily thing.

If no provisions allowed at all between fights, I'd say that would make fighting three Warriors with their abilities at the end potentially even harder than fighting five without abilities and the same restriction, especially if it was the first three.

[sylas]

I don't think you can eat provisions (or even drink potions) in between fights. The Spear is the only way to avoid the fights with an automatic win. Obviously you'd need lots of charges which if you don't have, requires a high Skill score to survive.

[Wizard Slayer]

If you're given a list of enemies in a single paragraph and told to fight each one at a time, I personally agree that no, you can't eat provisions between each one. The Shadow Warrior battle is different though, in that after each fight you turn to a different paragraph and watch the warrior vanish before continuing your adventure:


...Yet no sooner does the evil fiend hit the ground then dark vapours start to rise from its body. You stand back and watch [while eating a sandwich] as the foul fumes enshroud the corpse, obscuring it from sight. When they clear, the body is no longer there...


So there's a definite break between combats. (It's established at the pass that the Shadow Warriors get a bit nervy of you when you defeat one of their number.) If somebody says "Well yeah but not long enough to eat a provision" then given it's rarely defined what a provision is and we live in a world where somebody can eat six PBJ sandwiches in one minute or a large burrito in 44 seconds, I think it gets all very argumentative and subjective over exactly when and where in any adventure you're allowed to eat, in what is after all only a game. (Personally in any book I only allow my character 1 provision with some kind of break before being allowed the next, but I'd never claim otherwise is cheating.)

Incidentally, this book doesn't even include the philosophical "You may only eat one meal at a time" which some other books do. It's also unusual in not including any potions or other items which replenish stamina, which makes the approach taken to provisions more of an issue by the end of the book.

[kieran]

Mar 29, 2023 8:51:34 GMT Wizard Slayer said:

If somebody says "Well yeah but not long enough to eat a provision" then given it's rarely defined what a provision is and we live in a world where somebody can eat six PBJ sandwiches in one minute or a large burrito in 44 seconds

In a few of the Keith Martin books, he will write something like 'You have time for one short action. you can use this to wolf down one portion of provisions.' Other times, he might say you have time to drink a potion but not to eat provisions. Without such qualifications, I generally play it like you do.

[Wizard Slayer]

So I’ve tested the % wins for the below Hustings-route walkthrough, and it’s as I thought - not quite as easy as the Gornt route, but not quite as much harder as some have thought! It's far more sensitive to Luck, but if you have high Luck and Skill it's not all that much more difficult. If you have high (10-12) Luck, it's not even that much more difficult than the Gornt route!

There's a bigger difference depending on the approach you take to Provisions, but then again I don’t know what approach was taken with the above Gornt route solution. Here I’ve noted where provisions are allowed (and should) be consumed, and also included odds if you’re being “strict” about them.

With this route, you never have to risk facing any of the Shadow Warrior abilities.

Testing Your Luck in battle is only done to reduce damage if you've at least 10 Luck, unless you're about to die.

- You would rather leave.
- Visit east side.
- Buy Chainmail, Lantern, Manacles, Rope & grapple (-10 gold)
- You have not visited the western side.
- You weren’t delayed and are heading west.
- Buy Chameleon Cloak, Mirror (-4 gold)
- Spend rest of gold on Provisions.
- You have visited the eastern side.
- Run for it.
- Go right.
- Keep running.
- Keep running.
- Continue up street.
- Listen to man in black (plus old man first, if you want to).
- Silence him with fists.
- Join in.
- Fight AGITATOR (Sk 8 St 7), using Luck once.
- Get Scroll of Civic Pardon (+1 Luck)
- Head for East Gate.
- Approach in a noble manner.
- You have a Scroll of Civic Pardon.
- Stand and fight.
- They knock you to the ground (-4 Stamina).
- Pretend to be dead.
- Test Luck . Fail = Death.
- Warrior stabs you to check (-2 Stamina) then they leave.
- Search for hermit.
- Continue on your way.
- Get a hot meal (+2 Stamina).
- Stop the hermit.
- Fight HAMMICUS for one round (Sk 5 St 7).
- You are determined to stop him.
- Get Priceless Information that you’ll never need. (+1 Luck)
- Follow road back west.
- Head south-east.
- Accept his task.
- Note Cerunnos.
- Stay on the road.
- Put on the cloak.
- Head for the strange tower.
- The Haggwort break your weapon. Cross off your weapon.
- Refuse to eat the sludge.
- Ask her to prove her power.
- Tell her to free the Haggwort.
- Take Iron Band.
- You have an Iron Band and Cerunnos means something to you.
- Take Spear of Doom. 1D6+5 Life force but don’t use any until the Shadow Warriors. (+6 Stamina).
- You came here from Hustings.
- Go left.
- Stop at the tower.
- Ring the bell.
- Eat the hearty repast.
- Fall asleep due to obvious trick.
- Reach for your mirror.
- Gain +1 Luck for your quick thinking.
- Grab a Sword and sleep for a few hours (+2 Stamina)
- Head for Witchtooth Line.
- You have a Lantern and one skin of oil and wish to enter the cave.
- Attack Smegg (-2 Stamina) (or stay where you are and rather make your way alone for the same outcome but the moral high ground).
- Fight SMEGG (Sk 8 St 3)
- Descend staircase into maze.
- Eat enough provisions over the next few paragraphs to get your Stamina within 4 points of your Initial score.
- Head east, west, south, east, north.
- Fight NIGHTMARE MASTER (Sk 9 St 9). Lose 1 Luck point each time he hits you.
- You wake up (+3 Stamina).
- Head west.
- Add 2 Provisions (+1 Luck)
- Head south.
- Fight First DARK ELF (Sk 7 St 5) and Second DARK ELF (Sk 8 St 6) together.
- Search the library.
- Read Numeris Astrakaans.
- You tear out the most important page. Note Paragraph 16.
- You have a Chameleon Cloak.
- Hurry through the secret door.
- Bind its ankles.
- You have found the Ring of Rabbam and can ignore any Shadow Warrior’s special combat instructions.
- Go right.
- You have a rope and grapple.
- You swing across the chasm like a boss. Cross off Rope and Grapple.
- Go left.
- Test Skill. Fail = Death.
- Fight DARK ELF CULTIST (Sk 7 St 10)
- You have reached Karnstein. Eat as many provisions as possible on your route to reach Voivod (he’s quite a long way).
- You have searched for the hermit but not been to the tavern.
- Battle Plains sounds good. Use the page on Paragraph 16 to convert it to 41.
- You have not arrived here early.
- Roll 2D6 and get hit that many times. Lose 2 Stamina per hit, reduced by any Chainmail you have left and any successful Luck throws (only Test your Luck if your Luck is 8 or higher, or if you’d otherwise die).
- Eat a provision unless you’re being strict.
- Fight all five Shadow Warriors (Sk 9 St 9) in turn. You have the Ring of Rabbam so can ignore the special instructions. Use the Spear until you have 8 charges left (or 9, if you have Skill 11 or 12). Eat a provision after each fight while they dissolve (during Para 335 or 223, unless you’re being strict.
- You have the Spear of Doom.
- Fight Voivod (Sk 10 St 10), following the rules and trying to give him life. Test Life Force at the end of each round. Success = Paragraph 400, otherwise you lose.

Here are the calculated odds if you’re flexible on when you can eat provisions. I’ve only bothered for Skills 10 - 12 and lack the time right now to make it as pretty as above:



If you're being strict and won't let yourself eat between running the undead gauntlet and facing Voivod, your odds drop considerably but aren't insurmountable:

[CharlesX]

Thanks Wizardslayer!

Sounds like the endgame is very much the killer, and a single provision before facing the Shadow Warriors, or between them, isn't going to go far. For me, a problem about Gornt is while the odds aren't outrageous for success (if definitely worse than Hustings), you require high statistics to stand a chance, which is the case for the truer path but rather more so this way.

It will divide players whether they want (effectively) their entire challenge at the end, rather than the more nuanced conventional route, as well as having a lot depend on a single throw of two dice just before the end. But obviously this was not intended as the true path, and that's what it would play as - interesting, but not optimal.

[CharlesX]

What do you gain by stopping at the tower and eating the drugged food? Perhaps it might make more sense to not buy a mirror and spend the money on other helpful things?

   It obviously seems illogical (not unsual in FF) but is it the only way to get a weapon back?

[Wizard Slayer]

After going left at the fork before, the only way to avoid the tower encounter is to fight a Shadow Warrior so you're better off going there. Once in there, eating the drugged food is necessary to get the chance to use the mirror, otherwise you have to fight Kauderwelsch's monster directly. It's Sk 8 St 14, so maybe it's worth spending the gold on a provision and taking the fight instead, but it's marginal.

If you go right at the fork, the only way to get into the caves is by fighting an ogre (Sk 9 St 11) or passing a Luck test and losing the rope and grapple (which would mean having to fight more cultists in the caves).

Plus I don't think there's any way to get a weapon aside from the tower!

Something I missed is it's possible to get an extra precious two provisions after fighting the Nightmare Master, plus a Luck point! I'll add that into the solution. How much difference it'll make to the odds I'll work out later.

[Wizard Slayer]

Mar 30, 2023 12:57:54 GMT CharlesX said:

Sounds like the endgame is very much the killer, and a single provision before facing the Shadow Warriors, or between them, isn't going to go far.

Far enough it seems, though? Allowing those single provisions gives an 11/18/10 player the same chance on the Hustings route as a 12/18/10 player on the Gornt route.

What I don't know of course is if the odds for the original solution are based on allowing one provision between fights, none or as many as you like, which makes comparisons difficult. Stood on its own though, I'd say that for a strong character the Hustings route is challenging rather than near impossible.

[sylas]

Curious. Why is everyone saying the Gornt route requires really high stats to get through?

[CharlesX]

Mar 30, 2023 16:01:29 GMT sylas said:

Curious. Why is everyone saying the Gornt route requires really high stats to get through?

Loving The Legend Of The Shadow Warriors, I played the Gornt route quite a bit as well as the orthodox true path (and no, unfortunately you can't 'arrive early' via the Orc capture route).

   There are two main downsides to the Gornt route:

Primary one, not arriving early and having 2d6 hits is very random and comes just at the end. You may allow one provision at the end but even with some armour it can easily kill a low or mid Stamina Avatar, or even an above-average one if you are unlucky.

Two, you have to fight both the tough Nightmare Master opponent, and later two Shadow Warriors when you're already low on Stamina. Getting the Ring Of Rabbaam is helpful but very much isn't worth it with these disadvantages and others (e.g. you probably won't have enough money for a Ring Of Agility meaning you'll face a Skill test which would kill you if you fail). Fighting the two Dark Elves together isn't easy either and on par with fighting the Clown on the Hustings route.

For a very good Avatar the difference in between the two routes is still distinct but not terrible.

Gornt route is notable for often depleting your Stamina and making you die from Stamina loss, sometimes because you can't replenish your Stamina with enough provisions. This is not the norm in most FF where you will normally have more than enough provisions for the adventure and death from lower Stamina is rare (where you are given provisions, that is).

Edit: Wizard Slayer might be right below where he suggests I (I don't think Sylas) have confused Gornt and Hustings here, my apologies.

[Wizard Slayer]

I think you're confusing Gornt with Hustings...? Also:

- there's no way you're low on stamina when you face the Nightmare Master. (I realise now what you meant.)
- you don't face any Shadow Warriors until the end, and only ever when they're powerless.
- you only face one fatal Skill test via Hustings, while Gornt you face two, and potentially four.

It turns out the discovery of those two extra Provisions plus the Luck point makes a big difference! I'm updating the solution with the new odds...

[CharlesX]

Mar 30, 2023 17:59:11 GMT Wizard Slayer said:

I think you're confusing Gornt with Hustings...? Also:

- there's no way you're low on stamina when you face the Nightmare Master.
- you don't face any Shadow Warriors until the end, and only ever when they're powerless.
- you only face one fatal Skill test via Hustings, while Gornt you face two, and potentially four.

It turns out the discovery of those two extra Provisions plus the Luck point makes a big difference! I'm updating the solution with the new odds...

1. Perhaps I worded it clumsily, or you misread, or both, but what I meant is that the Nightmare Master is a tough opponent generally, and not that you face him with low Stamina. But you definitely might face the Shadow Warriors with low Stamina..

2. Yes, you face those Shadow Warriors at the end, after the 2d6 hits, which can be very damaging even with armour. Facing all five Shadow Warriors singly, with only enough time for one provision between each, which you may not have, can be tough. I have played this route quite a bit as I've said and that's my experience, whether or not you're on the same page (and I feel I have a point or two).

Skill 9 Stamina 9 is a tough Avatar, not a powerless one, I say the Ring of Rabbaam can be helpful but arguably nothing more.

3. Of course, the other route you have the money for the Ring Of Agility for two tests. Again, different page.

Edit: No prob Wizard Slayer I've clarified my post so we're cool .

 

[Wizard Slayer]

Mar 30, 2023 18:08:50 GMT CharlesX said:

Facing all five Shadow Warriors singly, with only enough time for one provision between each, which you may not have, can be tough. I have played this route quite a bit

I don't deny it's tough, but facing six Shadow Warriors (since you face one twice in the Gornt solution) with their powers while not being low on stamina is also tough, and I'm getting the feeling it's balancing out. Incidentally, I'm getting odds by having the computer play through the route 100,000 times...! Plus you have the option of using the Spear against them.

(I tried it with using the Spear on the Nightmare Master but it made no real difference to the odds.)

Interesting point: if facing a Shadow Warrior with a pre-combat special attack (like the fatal Skill test throwing stars), is it acceptable to say using the Spear negates that attack or not?

[Wizard Slayer]

Mar 30, 2023 16:01:29 GMT sylas said:

Curious. Why is everyone saying the Gornt route requires really high stats to get through?

If you mean the Gornt solution at the top of this thread, look at the odds: not a lot of green there at all.

A just above average 10/18/10 still only has a 1/4 chance of winning.

Now I look through it, the Hustings odds aren't far off the same - if you allow yourself to eat a provision between Shadow Warrior combats.And like I keep saying, it's not clear in the Gornt odds that was forbidden.

Maybe another day I'll write the same for the Gornt solution and see what I get!

[Wizard Slayer]

Mar 28, 2023 13:43:16 GMT CharlesX said:

I would be extremely interested to see a % comparison for the heartwarming so-called 'true path' route...

One last thing I meant to ask: why do you consider Gornt "heartwarming"? I suppose you rescue the Man of Numbers, but then he was foolish to go into those caves anyway - Hustings route, you rescue a whole village of innocents!

[sylas]

Mar 30, 2023 18:23:50 GMT Wizard Slayer said:

Mar 30, 2023 18:08:50 GMT CharlesX said:

Facing all five Shadow Warriors singly, with only enough time for one provision between each, which you may not have, can be tough. I have played this route quite a bit

I don't deny it's tough, but facing six Shadow Warriors (since you face one twice in the Gornt solution) with their powers while not being low on stamina is also tough, and I'm getting the feeling it's balancing out. Incidentally, I'm getting odds by having the computer play through the route 100,000 times...! Plus you have the option of using the Spear against them.

(I tried it with using the Spear on the Nightmare Master but it made no real difference to the odds.)

Interesting point: if facing a Shadow Warrior with a pre-combat special attack (like the fatal Skill test throwing stars), is it acceptable to say using the Spear negates that attack or not?

Personally I would say yes it negates the attack. The Spear lets you win the combat automatically so your opponent shouldn't get an attack at all.

[CharlesX]

Mar 30, 2023 18:23:50 GMT Wizard Slayer said:

Interesting point: if facing a Shadow Warrior with a pre-combat special attack (like the fatal Skill test throwing stars), is it acceptable to say using the Spear negates that attack or not?

Hmm no idea. Don't see any good reason it shouldn't (where it isn't specified, assume it's possible). Think Sylas words it better than I.

[CharlesX]

Mar 30, 2023 18:33:01 GMT Wizard Slayer said:

Mar 28, 2023 13:43:16 GMT CharlesX said:

I would be extremely interested to see a % comparison for the heartwarming so-called 'true path' route...

One last thing I meant to ask: why do you consider Gornt "heartwarming"? I suppose you rescue the Man of Numbers, but then he was foolish to go into those caves anyway - Hustings route, you rescue a whole village of innocents!

Like Champskees I take some effort in finding the best and correct solution and path, and any path that is not optimal is therefore 'worse than useless', no matter how good it might be. Doubly so if it's a really good gamebook such as Legend.

   This can take some of the fun out of a gamebook because some of the most interesting paths don't have the best odds, this path being quite interesting and with odds in the middle of 'silly' and 'close run'. But the other path is light years ahead of it because the odds of success are maybe very slightly better.

   That's what I mean by "heartwarming", any path that isn't the best odds of success is by argument never worth taking, which something at the back of my head doesn't entirely agree with.