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Post by CharlesX on Feb 5, 2022 19:50:15 GMT
Those who have been clicking on my spoilers will have sussed that I'm playing these hardcore - straight-up first lot of dice rolls for a character, no re-rolling to get one with a chance of success, and not using a guide. And no second goes either. Same here. I've had some luckier rolls than you at times, and I played a lot of the books obsessively enough back in the eighties that I can still remember a lot of significant details, but no fudging, no rerolling (except when permitted by the book - which went so well for me in Demons, didn't it?), no guides to help with playing the books (though I might occasionally refer to one to help with adjudication), and only one attempt at each adventure. The fact that I never even mentioned my tries at Sky Lord and Freeway Fighter should give some indication of how well I did at them. Whoever came up with that phrase missed their true vocation as a government spokesperson. Odds a 7 14 7 Avatar can win The Warlock Of Firetop Mountain is 19.6%. So, it seems they were either lying from move one, or they have always had an interesting definition of a 'fairly easy success' (under one in five, yeah). Their disregard for Skill 7 Avatars in TWOTM in this way kinda sets the tone for the tough difficulty. I have a copy of City Of Thieves with this message in the front. I don't know whether Caverns Of The Show Witch does as well. What were they thinking when they put the message in, knowing Skill 7 or Skill 8 Avatars will probably fail? Maybe someone who has included mandatory 50 50 do-or-die rolls on FOUR of his FF gamebooks cannot be trusted on probability theory.
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Post by a moderator on Feb 5, 2022 20:01:42 GMT
Odds a 7 14 7 Avatar can win The Warlock Of Firetop Mountain is 19.6%. So, it seems they were either lying from move one, or they have always had an interesting definition of a 'fairly easy success' (under one in five, yeah). Their disregard for Skill 7 Avatars in TWOTM in this way kinda sets the tone for the tough difficulty. I have a copy of City Of Thieves with this message in the front. I don't know whether Caverns Of The Show Witch does as well. What were they thinking when they put the message in, knowing Skill 7 or Skill 8 Avatars will probably fail? Maybe someone who has included mandatory 50 50 do-or-die rolls on FOUR of his FF gamebooks cannot be trusted on probability theory. It is in Caverns. It's also in Deathtrap Dungeon, Island of the Lizard King and Talisman of Death, to name another three books with unavoidable enemies that have double-figure Skill scores. It's even in House of Hell, though that's the one book where winning with minimum stats is not just highly improable but demonstrably impossible. (This will be slightly adjusted when House comes up in the challenge).
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Post by johnbrawn1972 on Feb 5, 2022 21:09:56 GMT
Same here. I've had some luckier rolls than you at times, and I played a lot of the books obsessively enough back in the eighties that I can still remember a lot of significant details, but no fudging, no rerolling (except when permitted by the book - which went so well for me in Demons, didn't it?), no guides to help with playing the books (though I might occasionally refer to one to help with adjudication), and only one attempt at each adventure. The fact that I never even mentioned my tries at Sky Lord and Freeway Fighter should give some indication of how well I did at them. Whoever came up with that phrase missed their true vocation as a government spokesperson. Odds a 7 14 7 Avatar can win The Warlock Of Firetop Mountain is 19.6%. So, it seems they were either lying from move one, or they have always had an interesting definition of a 'fairly easy success' (under one in five, yeah). Their disregard for Skill 7 Avatars in TWOTM in this way kinda sets the tone for the tough difficulty. I have a copy of City Of Thieves with this message in the front. I don't know whether Caverns Of The Show Witch does as well. What were they thinking when they put the message in, knowing Skill 7 or Skill 8 Avatars will probably fail? Maybe someone who has included mandatory 50 50 do-or-die rolls on FOUR of his FF gamebooks cannot be trusted on probability theory. I am not sure it was possible to code for use of luck in battles so the figure might be fractionally higher. When the luck roll has a 58% chance of success it is pretty marginal but over 10 million or whatever instances in a system that is quite a significant exploitation of that opportunity.
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Post by CharlesX on Feb 5, 2022 21:34:46 GMT
Odds a 7 14 7 Avatar can win The Warlock Of Firetop Mountain is 19.6%. So, it seems they were either lying from move one, or they have always had an interesting definition of a 'fairly easy success' (under one in five, yeah). Their disregard for Skill 7 Avatars in TWOTM in this way kinda sets the tone for the tough difficulty. I have a copy of City Of Thieves with this message in the front. I don't know whether Caverns Of The Show Witch does as well. What were they thinking when they put the message in, knowing Skill 7 or Skill 8 Avatars will probably fail? Maybe someone who has included mandatory 50 50 do-or-die rolls on FOUR of his FF gamebooks cannot be trusted on probability theory. I am not sure it was possible to code for use of luck in battles so the figure might be fractionally higher. When the luck roll has a 58% chance of success it is pretty marginal but over 10 million or whatever instances in a system that is quite a significant exploitation of that opportunity. That's a really good point. For example, it might affect the odds in Crypt where it could be used against Razaak, or in Space Assassin and Rings Of Kether where you are rarely if ever asked to test your luck.
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Post by a moderator on Feb 5, 2022 21:52:48 GMT
I am not sure it was possible to code for use of luck in battles so the figure might be fractionally higher. When the luck roll has a 58% chance of success it is pretty marginal but over 10 million or whatever instances in a system that is quite a significant exploitation of that opportunity. Good point. Judicious use of Luck following a couple of flukey rolls once enabled me to defeat a Skill 12 opponent with a Skill 7 character.
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Post by The Count on Feb 5, 2022 22:20:32 GMT
I played the wonderful Demons of the Deep. I didn't use a guide. I met the Mermaid, lost 2 Skill to a scorpion fish, met Greylock, had a nice sauna with some mermen, got imprisoned by the Sea Ogre, went the wrong way to find the Water Sprite or Sea Dragon, and after watching the windows in the Cathedral, I only had 2GP and no Black Pearls so declined to pay Cyrano - who ended up killing me.
Starting stats Sk 9 St 17 L 8
After Sauna Reroll Sk 10 St 15 L 9
Final stats Sk 10
St 17 L 9
Items: Lucky Charm, 2 GP, Sea Ogres ring (+2 Initial and Current Stamina), sword (from sea ogre)
Clues: Magical pentagram gave me temporary gills Find Black Pearls Look for the Sea Dragon Ask the Water Sprite Visit the cathedral Pirates are at Fish Island
Fights: Moray Eel Sea Ogre Giant Crab 1 Giant Crab 2 Devilfish Cyrano (not a paid for lesson) Still a lot of fun
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Feb 5, 2022 23:58:39 GMT
Played Demons Killed a bunch of stuff including Kraken but finally died on Captain Bloodaxe's axe
initial stats Skill 9 Stamina 19 Luck 11
Although this is, obviously, a personal favourite I haven't played it for some time and so found myself in the situation of knowing I was making mistakes but not being quite sure where. I missed the toolfish early on and (I think therefore) the Elemental and Bone Demon. I should have gone for the 'vengeance only' sea dragon ending but I wasn't certain whether that counted as a win, nor whether there were other difficulties before or after meeting it. I used the sauna, which on reflection was probably stupid. Right to the end I was convinced that another black pearl or a good few meals (a string of bad rolls depleted my picnic early on) would materialise from somewhere. As it was I ended up fighting Bloodaxe with Skill 11 (thanks Cyrano) but Stamina 5 with Luck 8 (reduced by the sauna). Even then it was a near miss.
Fights survived: 3 barracudas, 2 skeletons, grouper (not killed but driven off), stone statue, shark, sea spider, bloodworms, devilfish, Cyrano (lost to him), kraken
Knowledge: know dolphin's name is Keeekweeek, know word to activate black pearls, have seen reference to fish-shaped island
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Post by a moderator on Feb 6, 2022 2:55:47 GMT
What were your sauna-rerolled stats?
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Feb 6, 2022 3:12:23 GMT
What were your sauna-rerolled stats? Skill 9 Stamina 21 Luck 8
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Post by a moderator on Feb 6, 2022 13:43:52 GMT
Welcome aboard, The Count. And commiserations to peasantscribbler, who looked set to claim the 'most fights won' bonus until nathanh's 'full slaughter mode'entry towards the end of the week.
Week 5 scoring 1st: schlendrian – 14 (stats bonus 4 + victory bonus 10) 2nd= terrysalt – 12 (stats bonus 2 + victory bonus 10) 2nd= kieran – 12 (stats bonus 2 + victory bonus 10) 4th: greenspine - 11 (stats bonus 1 + victory bonus 10) 5th: nathanh - 7 (stats bonus 2+ most fights won bonus 5) 6th= vastariner - 4 (stats bonus 4) 6th= The Count - 4 (stats bonus 4) 8th: thealmightymudworm - 2 (stats bonus 2) 9th: peasantscribbler – 1 (stats bonus 1)
Running totals 1st: greenspine - 43 2nd: terrysalt - 38 3rd: nathanh – 30 4th: kieran - 29 5th: schlendrian - 28 6th: vastariner – 16 7th: thealmightymudworm - 15 8th: peasantscribbler - 13 9th: The Count - 4
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Post by The Count on Feb 6, 2022 19:00:34 GMT
Since Trial of Champions is another one of my favourites The Arena of Death was fairly easy, though I lost a lot of Stamina to the Southerner it didn't matter. Getting to the dungeon itself, the start was fairly straightforward, ignoring the trap room and not falling for the box or man under the jar, passed the Liche Queens test and those of the Trialmaster and Skeleton quizzer. Remembered which way to go for the most part, though not well enough to prevent stumbling on the Xoroa, and summoning more of them! Being very lucky with the roll against the Siren, liquid of changing properties and while fighting the Xoroa was countered by failing a Luck test by rolling 12 leading to fighting the Hill Troll, and the fight against the Fire Demon cost me more stamina from its special attacks than I'd lost against any other opponent, though it left me with just enough Stamina to survive and, following the liquid of changing properties and dungeon exit stamina boosts, was able to survive long enough to kill Carnuss swiftly by using Luck after every round.
Starting Stats: Skill 12 Stamina 19 Luck 11
Items collected: Bone Medallion Phial of Red Dust Boots of Speed Iron Key Magical Broadword Iron File Rope Hammer Vial of Anti-Poison Winged Helmet Shield Mirror Short Spear Wooden Whistle Clay Pig (unbroken)* Blue Dye Purple Cloak Clock Hands Nuts & Berries Troll Food (uneaten)* Lamp (used)* Bone Horn (used)* 20,000 Gold Pieces
*I don't know if I should have taken these, but wrote them down anyway
Clues: One is on and two is gone Don't drink the fountains The Hunchback is a liar Go through the mouth Collect Gold Rings Set 1 Set 2 Set 3 3 o'clock
Foes:
Bonecrusher Easterner Fighting Slave Southerner Hellhound Strider 1st Vampire Bat 2nd Vampire Bat Coldclaw Bone Devil Liche Queen (not fought) Giant Spider 1st Rat 2nd Rat 3rd Rat 4th Rat 5th Rat Caveman Trialmaster Skeleton King Tusker Chaos Champion Xoroa Warrior 1st Xoroa Warrior 2nd Xoroa Warrior 3rd Xoroa Warrior 4th Xoroa Warrior Tongue Idol Hill Troll Eastern Warlord Fire Imp Fire Demon Lord Carnuss
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Post by nathanh on Feb 7, 2022 19:19:13 GMT
Suspect the Count has this week in the bag already!
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Post by a moderator on Feb 8, 2022 1:19:41 GMT
Since Trial of Champions is another one of my favourites Foes:
Bonecrusher Easterner Fighting Slave Southerner Hellhound Strider 1st Vampire Bat 2nd Vampire Bat Coldclaw Bone Devil Liche Queen (not fought) Giant Spider 1st Rat 2nd Rat 3rd Rat 4th Rat 5th Rat Caveman Trialmaster Skeleton King Tusker Chaos Champion Xoroa Warrior 1st Xoroa Warrior 2nd Xoroa Warrior 3rd Xoroa Warrior 4th Xoroa Warrior Tongue Idol Hill Troll Eastern Warlord Fire Imp Fire Demon Lord Carnuss Impressive. What weapons did you use against the Bonecrusher? Suspect the Count has this week in the bag already! For highest number of fights won, very likely. But everyone who wins a book gets points for that, so it's still worth a try.
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Post by The Count on Feb 8, 2022 6:54:10 GMT
Since Trial of Champions is another one of my favourites Foes:
Bonecrusher Easterner Fighting Slave Southerner Hellhound Strider 1st Vampire Bat 2nd Vampire Bat Coldclaw Bone Devil Liche Queen (not fought) Giant Spider 1st Rat 2nd Rat 3rd Rat 4th Rat 5th Rat Caveman Trialmaster Skeleton King Tusker Chaos Champion Xoroa Warrior 1st Xoroa Warrior 2nd Xoroa Warrior 3rd Xoroa Warrior 4th Xoroa Warrior Tongue Idol Hill Troll Eastern Warlord Fire Imp Fire Demon Lord Carnuss Impressive. What weapons did you use against the Bonecrusher? Suspect the Count has this week in the bag already! For highest number of fights won, very likely. But everyone who wins a book gets points for that, so it's still worth a try. Trident & Net
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,451
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Feb 10, 2022 23:38:54 GMT
My attempt at Trial of Champions ended in the Coldclaw's lair (annoyingly despite going into the fight with 9 Luck, I rolled Unlucky 3 times while trying to do extra damage - if I hadn't tested my Luck at all I would have won). Despite doing much worse in it though I am going to use my attempt at Stealer of Souls for this week:
Sk7 St21 Lu10 Killed by the giant stormbird straight off the bat.
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Post by a moderator on Feb 11, 2022 14:02:31 GMT
I did slightly better at Trial than peasantscribbler, but I'm going with my attempt at Stealer of Souls. Sk 10 St 14 L 12
Fights won: Giant Stormbird x 2 Hobgoblin x 2 Dark Priest Goblin x 2 Ogre Snake Skeletal Warrior Troll Razorbeak Bird Orc x 2 Dark Priest Guard Half-Ogre Torturer Dark Elf x 2 Eagle-Illusion Death Skull Spider-Illusion
If I'd not chosen to ascend the wrong staircase, I'd probably have won: as it was, Mordraneth was able to reduce my Stamina to 3 before the final fight started, and though I succeeded in bringing him down to just 3 Stamina over the course of the battle, he managed to hit me often enough that not even Luck could save me.
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Post by a moderator on Feb 12, 2022 0:03:53 GMT
Just under 24 hours left for nathanh, schlendrian and thealmightymudworm to get their results in.
Week 7 Today the randomiser has gone for two adventures in which you can fail by being transformed into an arachnid.
This century - Spellbreaker Last century - Portal of Evil
This hasn’t yet come up, but I think I should mention it now, as Spellbreaker is one of the books in which it could affect player strategy. In books with an extremely narrow ‘true path’, only progress along that true path will be taken into consideration when determining who came closest to winning. If, reasoning that there’s no real chance of winning anyway, you decide to skip a high-risk encounter that provides an essential item, you will be judged to have failed the adventure at the point where that decision takes effect. You may be able to get the ‘most fights won’ bonus by killing many more opponents before your now-inevitable defeat, but any other player who chose not to avoid that encounter will be considered to have got closer to victory, even if they died much more quickly.
A couple of other points regarding Spellbreaker: On the assumption that the Wizard edits to reduce difficulty were not trolling the readers, merely poorly implemented, at section 120 add the option ‘or simply give yourself up (turn to 25)’. If you have the Puffin edition, note that there is a mistake at the end of section 83. The correct section to turn to is 300, not 132.
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Post by terrysalt on Feb 12, 2022 2:44:00 GMT
A tough call between the famously hard book or the famously easy one. I went with Portal and won it. Skill 9 Stamina 22 Luck 11 Items: dark talisman, ring of zombie warding, sword of Gravalan (all 3 charges intact), hunting horn, Margrave's warrant, sprig of swords-ease, rope, torches, miner's helmet, red/blue birds, mirror, 6 provisions, 19 gold Knowledge: Let Gloten win, tell Gloten he fights like a dwarf, tell wizard about Gartax Fights: Soldier (down to 3 stamina), Pteranodon, Gloten (reduced him to 4 then let him win), struthiomimus (3 rounds), triceratops (5 rounds), Horfak Guide: Champskees
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Post by schlendrian on Feb 12, 2022 7:04:36 GMT
I'm physically separated from my copy of trial and won't be able to play it in time for the challenge.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,451
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Feb 12, 2022 10:02:40 GMT
On the assumption that the Wizard edits to reduce difficulty were not trolling the readers, merely poorly implemented, at section 120 add the option ‘or simply give yourself up (turn to 25)’. Can you apply this fix to the Puffin version too?
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Post by vastariner on Feb 12, 2022 10:09:24 GMT
Isn't Spellbreaker broken? Anyhoo, will go with Portal of Evil.
Rolling up my dude/dudess:
Sk 9 St 21 Lu 7 (damn)
Start off with a fight...
...and that rare thing - a win, with no St lost.
Fights won: Rubbish soldier Two even more rubbish slave warriors Gluda the dromeosaur (St down to 9) [lose to Gloten, St down to 3] Survived 3 AR against a struthiomimus (St down to 19) Zombie slave warrior (St 15) The portal, sort of (passed St test by 2, Sk test by rolling dead even, Luck by rolling 5) 2 more post-portal slave warriors Glaciator (St down to 11, have 2 provisions to get up to 17, down to 3 Pr) Dwarven slave warrior (St 13) Slave warrior guard (St 5, wolf down a quick couple of meals, St 13) Horfak (St 11)
Info gathered: There is a portal doing reaaaaaalllly bad things Gartax the miner might be of some help Throw a pickaxe handle fight with Gloten and fake he's human Remember Gartax to the Lake Mlubz wizard Queen elf zombie illusion spell thingy
Stuff picked up: Gloten's eagle horn - destroyed by Lignia Passport warrant 10 GP - destroyed by Lignia Potiion of True Seeing 4 extra provisions Mirror (St 14) Swordsease Rope Torches Miner's helmet - destroyed by Lignia Red and blue birds in cages
If you're lucky with Luck rolls, isn't that meta-luck? It got ridiculous, I passed a test on Lu 5...
...but without Igneolite, the adventure was doomed to end in tragedy. So so close.
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Post by CharlesX on Feb 12, 2022 10:27:44 GMT
Isn't Spellbreaker broken? Even if you add the surrender option, and you have a very strong Avatar, you have to roll maximum for gold (unless you spend ages doing the tedious Eclipse thing, which still won't work much more than not), pass several hard faith tests, and a 50 50. I worked out once the odds on you passing all the BS random rolls - alone - are 1-2%.
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Post by terrysalt on Feb 12, 2022 11:48:38 GMT
I'm physically separated from my copy of trial and won't be able to play it in time for the challenge. The guides in the guide section are detailed enough to use instead of the physical book. All the details as to inventory, fights, skill rolls etc... are included. It's not nearly as satisfying as using the physical book but if all you need is to submit a score before the deadline, it works.
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Post by a moderator on Feb 12, 2022 13:51:47 GMT
On the assumption that the Wizard edits to reduce difficulty were not trolling the readers, merely poorly implemented, at section 120 add the option ‘or simply give yourself up (turn to 25)’. Can you apply this fix to the Puffin version too? Yes. I meant that to apply to both versions: apologies for not making it clearer.
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Post by nathanh on Feb 12, 2022 15:39:13 GMT
I prevailed at Stealer of Souls, incidentally meaning that it joins Scorpion Swamp as the only books I've beaten more times than lost. An interesting book in that I obviously missed a lot, not having used a guide or any previous notes, but high attributes are just about enough to get you through despite a lot of random directional choices being needed (I ended with 0 provisions but 17 Stamina). Sk 10 St 23 Lu 10
Enemies defeated: GIANT STORMBIRD, 2 HOBGOBLINS, 2 GOBLINS, STONE GOLEM, 2 ORCS, ORC, DARK PRIEST, 2 ORCS, HALF-OGRE TORTURER, 2 DARK ELVES, EAGLE ILLUSION, DEATH SKULL, SKELETAL ILLUSION, SPIDER ILLUSION, MORDRANETH
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Feb 12, 2022 22:04:03 GMT
Well gosh.
I've never played Stealer of Souls before and again severely struggling for time, I figured that my chances of success were slim. This proved accurate.
Skill 7 Stamina 19 Luck 7
Given my stats, on seeing the Giant Stormbird I felt that discretion was the better part of valour. This cost me 2 STAMINA points. The ensuing battle cost me the rest of them. I think it might be my shortest playthrough of all time. Vanestin must be a complete moron for thinking that such a hapless klutz was worth wasting a glug of cooking sherry on, nevermind payment of passage.
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Post by a moderator on Feb 13, 2022 14:03:48 GMT
Week 6 scoring 1st: The Count - 16 (stats bonus 1 + most fights won bonus 5 + victory bonus 10) 2nd: terrysalt – 14 (stats bonus 4 + victory bonus 10) 3rd: nathanh - 11 (stats bonus 1 + victory bonus 10) 4th= peasantscribbler – 5 (stats bonus 5) 4th= thealmightymudworm - 5 (stats bonus 5) 4th= vastariner - 5 (stats bonus 5) 7th: kieran – 4 (stats bonus 4) 8th: greenspine - 3 (stats bonus 3)
So it's more profitable to be a Skill 7 loser who doesn't live through the first fight than a moderately competent hero who almost manages to kill the villain. But winning is better still.
Running totals 1st: terrysalt - 52 2nd: greenspine - 46 3rd: nathanh – 41 4th: kieran - 33 5th: schlendrian - 28 6th: vastariner – 21 7th= thealmightymudworm - 20 7th= The Count - 20 9th: peasantscribbler - 18
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Post by nathanh on Feb 13, 2022 22:25:40 GMT
Couple of Eclipse questions for Spellbreaker (ref 246): i) It is clear that if I draw I can play again, but if I win or lose can I play again? ii) I can't see an instruction as to who goes first. Do I go first?
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Post by a moderator on Feb 13, 2022 22:33:00 GMT
Couple of Eclipse questions for Spellbreaker (ref 246): i) It is clear that if I draw I can play again, but if I win or lose can I play again? ii) I can't see an instruction as to who goes first. Do I go first? i) I think that since the book specifies 'in the event of a draw', replaying after a win or a loss is not an option. ii) There is no instruction regarding who starts, which is a problem, but not the worst one with this book. It's up to you.
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Post by nathanh on Feb 13, 2022 22:35:09 GMT
I'm going to go first since it is materially beneficial to go first (amazingly, if Drogo goes first, the game is almost perfectly balanced!)
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