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Post by The Editor (Alex B) on Dec 1, 2021 7:42:10 GMT
Since the start of the Pertwee era, new series of Doctor Who had started in January. The BBC decided to change to an autumn start with the following series, and since that left the production team with less preparation time, what had been intended as the final story of this series was kept in reserve for the start of the next one.. And as a result Terror of the Zygons was trimmed from 6 episodes down to 4.
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kieran
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Post by kieran on Dec 1, 2021 9:07:06 GMT
The Ark in Space and Revenge of the Cybermen both being set on the same station was another attempt at saving money (the two stories were shot back-to-back). I suspected that was the case - not a bad idea really and well justified by the plot.
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Post by CharlesX on Dec 1, 2021 22:22:04 GMT
Robot was always one of my favourite Doctor Who stories. Yes, it didn't break - or push - boundaries in terms of storytelling, it had plotholes, and it never had much of a message or canonical significance. It was entertaining, and it was a good 4th Doctor \ Sarah Jane-Smith episode. Things like plotholes and tropes don't matter so much to the intended audience of younger people, especially if they're well-told.
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kieran
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Post by kieran on Jan 28, 2022 17:18:58 GMT
After a meh start, Series 13 was pretty damn good. If there's one negative to it, it's that Baker's Doctor seems to have turned into a monumental grump, routinely biting people's heads off or having tempter tantrums. Let's hope he gets back to his more playful self. Although his grumpiness really helps Sarah shine as she takes delight in winding him up. There's definitely good chemistry between the two actors.
Terror of the Zygons Doctor Who vs The Loch Ness Monster! Sounds like good schlocky fun. Unfortunately it's perfectly mediocre. There's a decent set-up for a mystery and some creepy performances (that nurse would send chills down your spine). The design of the Zygons is pretty cool, a sort of squid-babboon cross, but I didn't like their whispery voices - sound effects in general in this one were pretty annoying. The Zygon posing as Harry was quite well done, especially the scene where he tries to stick Sarah with a pitchfork. I thought it was a nice touch that all the disguised Zygons had the same manner of speaking and dealing with people (keep quiet and dismiss questions as unimportant). The idea behind the disguises that they required the originals to be in captivity was a good concept too. Unfortunately, the story suffers from bad plotting - the Doctor fakes death twice, the second time he is just left to blow up the ship from inside. The monster itself is barely used and when it is, it's too easily bested. And the mystery element basically gets abandoned by the Zygons revealing themselves and proving absolutely useless at silencing witnesses.
Planet of Evil I really have to hand it to this show - every time I'm getting a bit weary of it, it throws a really good story my way. This is a much better sci-fi horror than the previous series' The Ark in Space. The set design and cinematography on the planet are brilliant, creating a real sense of foreboding about the planet. The semi-invisible monsters are also well done, a much better effect than having a person in a costume would have been (and indeed as Sorenson's anti-man turns out to be at the end - a sort of wolf-man type thing for some reason). There's also some good banter between the Doctor and Sarah in the early stages, something that's been a bit lacking in the Baker stories thus far. Character in general is very well done here - I like the more measured Vishinsky contrasting with the hard-headed Salamar - a military man who is clearly out of his depth and trying to over-compensate. To be fair, one can't really blame him too much for being suspicious of the Doctor and Sarah - they keep being found next to murdered people! The scientist Sorenson is also a good character - we've had obsessive scientists before but what makes him differ from say Stalhman in Series 7's Inferno is that he does have good reason to be obsessed - he think he's on to a discovery that might save his entire world. One weak point is that it takes the characters a bit too long to catch on to him being the source of anti-matter - it should have been a lot more obvious to the Doctor at least. I liked that the Doctor manages to reason with him to the point that Sorenson plans to kill himself to save the rest of the crew - it's nice that the Doctor was ultimately able to save him and even give him a tip about a better way to save his planet. It was also good that the Tardis was actually used in the plot rather than just be the means of going home at the end - sometimes I think the Doctor forgets he can use it mid-story if he needs! All in all, probably my favourite Baker story thus far.
Pyramids of Mars And this almost immediately overtook the previous story as my favourite Baker story so far, but a stumble at the finish line means it will have to finish a close second. There's a nice Hammer Horror vibe to the early parts of the story and the mummy robots were quite a cool design (though their method of trying to kill by squeezing people between their breasts was... odd). Some of the characters at this early stage seem to be only included so Marcus has people to kill, but I did like Lawrence and his almost childlike amusement at the idea of time travel. The story did a good job of conveying his dedication to his brother and the tragic fate it leads to. I really liked the lore behind this one and Sutekh was a great villain, a better version of Azal from Series 8's The Daemons. His calm voice is an unusual choice but it works well - his costume was also great. By contrast I felt the actor playing Marcus overdid it a bit - he came off as a tad cartoonish, the OTT make-up not helping in that department. When things move to Mars, the story feels (as even Sarah points out) like too much of a rehash of Series 11's Death to the Daleks and really why was such an important object so lightly guarded - two mummies and the old "one of us speaks only lies" puzzle? Once again, the Tardis is used as a plot point but it feels more like a deus ex machina this time. One other weak point was The Doctor is plain unlikeable here. I suppose it's to show the gravity of the situation, but he's pretty much snappy and unfeeling throughout the whole story. Thank Heavens for Sarah who provides several laugh-out-loud lines. There was also a nice shout out to Series 5's Victoria at the start. I wonder in the days before VHS, how many fans would have remembered who she was when this story first aired?
The Android Invasion There's some excellent moments in this but as a whole it doesn't quite work. I think the main problem is scenes that would have been a bit surreal and unnerving if we didn't know what was going on instead seem to just visually confirm what we already know - think of how much creepier the calendar being all the same date would have been if we didn't already know the people in the pubs were all androids. Think how disturbing it would have been when Sarah's face fell off if we didn't already know it was an android? Really the only surreal moment that works quite well is Sarah seeing her android doppelganger rising vampire-like from the pod. The last episode is probably the best with all sorts of hijinks with two Doctors running around but it feels like too much crammed in at the end. Crayford's redemption in particular feels rushed (and did he really never think to take his eyepatch off before?). Not a bad story by any means but I think there has been similar stuff done much better (eg The War Games).
The Brain of Morbius This was a fun take on the Frankenstein story that also developed some of the lore around the Time Lords with the introduction of Morbius as a renegade Time Lord and the introduction of a rival group in the Sisterhood of Karn. Sarah is in good form here, mocking the Doctor for his petulant tantrum and then having to cope with being blind. I also really liked the Sisters and how they gradually became more reasonable as the story went on. It's interesting that, as far as I recall, all the Time lords we have met thus far have been men and their rivals seem to be exclusively women. Not sure if that was intentional. What is intentional is that the Time Lords see things in a very scientific fashion while the Sisters are much more mystically inclined - the story seems to be coming down on the side of science for the most part but Maren's rejuvenation as she was consumed by the flames suggests there may indeed have been more at work here than the Doctor gave credit. There's some good banter between Solon and Condo, but otherwise I think the story leans a bit too heavily into Frankenstein tropes - I could have done without Condo falling for Sarah and the Morbius monster being chased by flaming torches. I also thought the Doctor was repeatedly ridiculously trusting of Solon in order to serve the plot. Still, solid story overall. Interesting that we see previous incarnations of the Doctor at one stage, once again going against the idea that Hartnell was the first incarnation.
The Seeds of Doom Another excellent story which manages to cram in quite a few changes of locale. The early stages in Antarctica reminded me of The Thing while the later stages were a bit like Edge of Darkness though obviously this precedes either one. The tension stays mostly high throughout, only flagging slightly at the end. As a villain, Chase is a bit too Bond Villain for my tastes (why does he need all these armed guards normally anyway?) but John "Boycie" Challis is great as a ruthless mercenary ultimately forced to work with Sarah despite their mutual hatred. His death scene was especially well done as it looks like he might actually get away at the last minute. The Krynoid was also a good monster - I did wonder if it was meant to be the same plant monster that was encountered way back in Series 1's Keys of Marinus - probably not. I also enjoyed the banter between Sir Colin and Miss Ducat. It seemed a bit weird that the usual UNIT folk aren't about - scheduling conflicts? I could have done without the cheesy joke at the end.
Tough ranking as 4 of these stories were very good indeed: 1. Planet of Evil 2. Pyramids of Mars 3. The Seeds of Doom 4. The Brain of Morbius 5. The Android Invasion 6. Terror of the Zygons
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Post by CharlesX on Jan 28, 2022 21:54:09 GMT
Like you, kieran, I thought the Zygons were a great monster - original, distinctive, fitting - but not always brilliantly implemented, especially in their first episode. For me, the logic-based shortcomings of TOTZ didn't matter quite as much, particularly watching as a kid. Did you see any of their appearances in the post-McGann era, and did those stories do anything for you? Personally I don't like what they did with the monsters in the new episodes - I prefer the more po-faced tone, with the enemies presented as more terrifying and dangerous.
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kieran
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Post by kieran on Jan 29, 2022 0:19:11 GMT
Like you, kieran, I thought the Zygons were a great monster - original, distinctive, fitting - but not always brilliantly implemented, especially in their first episode. For me, the logic-based shortcomings of TOTZ didn't matter quite as much, particularly watching as a kid. Did you see any of their appearances in the post-McGann era, and did those stories do anything for you? Personally I don't like what they did with the monsters in the new episodes - I prefer the more po-faced tone, with the enemies presented as more terrifying and dangerous. I haven't seen many post-McGann episodes at all - beyond watching most of the Ecclestone era, I've only seen a couple of episodes. I don't recall the Zygons being in any of those I saw. I thought as villains they had potential. I look forward to better stories with them in future.
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Post by bloodbeasthandler on Jan 29, 2022 9:48:49 GMT
I do like a lot of those old episodes and have wondered to myself if the best of all worlds would be: old (1970's/80's) Doctor Who + modern day special effects. I like the old series, where everything is not all solved and sewn up in three quarters of an hour. And though I can tolerate some of those special effects I would have loved to see what script-writers like Terrance Dicks could have done with what is possible to depict nowadays.
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Post by a moderator on Jan 29, 2022 13:46:57 GMT
Bob Baker & Dave Martin (who wrote The Claws of Axos, The Mutants, The Three Doctors, The Sontaran Experiment and several stories Kieran has yet to see) were always coming up with ideas way more ambitious than 1970s FX and budgets could handle. If they'd been able to write for the modern series, the end product could have been epic.
Or possibly a massively self-indulgent train-wreck (their original outline for Axos purportedly included an giant skull-shaped spaceship crash-landing in Hyde Park, and an astronaut mutating into a carrot), but it would have been spectacular either way
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kieran
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Post by kieran on Mar 30, 2022 10:28:58 GMT
Series 14 was also pretty good. Baker seems a bit more comfortable in the role now, no longer seeming like an odd cross between Troughton and Pertwee (though his grumpiness does rear its head again in one story). But what the heck has happened to UNIT? The Brigadier got just a single mention all series.
The Masque of Mandragora Fourteen series in and someone finally questions why everyone across time and space speaks English. The Doctor suggests there is some explanation but I wonder how it would square with the characters not understanding a French speaker in The Underwater Menace? Anyway, it's good to see the Doctor more cheerful though he overdoes it on the mugging for laughs. I liked the theatrical way the actors spoke, thought it added a certain gravitas to everything. I particularly liked Count Fedrico and would have been happy to have a simple plot with the Doctor and Sarah trying to stop him taking over the duchy (though I did wonder why he has to go for such elaborate schemes when Giuliano's soldiers already seem to be loyal to him anyway). As it is, the story gets a bit lifeless once Federico is killed. Mandragora is built up to be this awesomely powerful enemy but I didn't really buy it - it all seemed very easy in the end. There's also a lot of hand-waving about helix energy, fate and astrology which makes me think the writers had only vaguely worked it all out in their heads. The ending hints that Mandragora will return but I'm in no hurry for it.
The Hand of Fear There's lots of great comedy in this story, particularly from Sarah - not too sure if this is her swansong but if so I'll be sorry to see her go. Her banter with the Fourth Doctor has really enlivened the recent series. Anyway I liked this story in general, the hand is pretty creepy and there's some good character work. I particularly liked Professor Watson who I expected to be just a stock hardheaded bureaucrat who doesn't believe any of this, but he was much more well-rounded than that - him calling his wife was touchingly handled. There was some good thriller stuff in the early stages (though it is a tad repetitive). The female version of Eldrad manages to come across as pretty sympathetic - she had me hoodwinked just as much as the Doctor. I liked the look of Kastria and for some reason I always enjoy sci-fi stories where the characters have to deal with ancient booby traps and ghost-like recordings. The male Eldrad was a bit too unsubtle though and his defeat was silly - this guy survives nuclear blasts but gets beaten by tripping over a wire? Still, very enjoyable overall. I guess Jodie Whittaker's Doctor wasn't the first Doctor Who character to regenerate as a different gender!
The Deadly Assassin Up to this point, the show has given me an impression of the Time Lords that they are wise, far-minded, almost god-like beings who if they have a fault it's that they are too aloof, leading them to view those who take more of an interest in mundane affairs like the Doctor and the Master as foolish mavericks. Well, I can forget about all that now because this story has them as a bunch of small-minded, petty bureaucrats with no understanding of their impressive technology and no concept of higher ideals. If I can forgive it that, this is an OK story. I liked the first two parts best with the Doctor winning fair-minded plod Spandrell round to his cause though it's not particularly difficult to unravel the mystery once Spandrell commits to some very basic police work. The third part doesn't really make enough of the virtual reality setting - apart from a disturbing clown, there's nothing as imaginative as seen in Series 6's The Mind Robber. The final part is a bit of a forgettable face-off with the Master - it feels like this could be any old villain rather than the Doctor's arch nemesis. To be honest, he probably could have got away with his scheme if he had just used any old bystander rather than the Doctor as his patsy. I did like the Doctor's old teacher giving him a 9 out of 10 at the end and there was some interesting "print the legend" dialogue. And I wonder if there will ever be an explanation of why the "you only get 12 regenerations" thing doesn't apply to the Doctor or it will just end up ignored?
The Face of Evil Not too sure when the Doctor had a chance to set the wheels of this story in motion since most of the Fourth Doctor's stories seem to have flowed into one another. Still, I can overlook that because this was an excellent story and a strong introduction to a new companion. I like that there is a level of complexity to the Sevateem - Neeva could have been so easily just a cynical manipulator of religious sentiment for his own purposes but instead he is a devout believer being manipulated himself and has to deal with coming to terms with that. Meanwhile Calib is on the side of the good guys but only to further his own power, the Tesh are in some ways enlightened but in other ways even more superstitious. It's interesting that nothing is really resolved at the end - the Doctor leaves the Tesh and Seateem to sort out their new society rather than everything sorted out neatly after Xoanan is defeated. Throw in some great sets, imagery and costumes, some interesting speculation on logic and eugenics and some decent action scenes and this was definitely a winner. One slight criticism - did we really need two scenes of Leela being mind-controlled especially when Sarah had already been mind-controlled in two previous stories this series?
The Robots of Death A story of two halves this. The first half is pretty awful, coupling the tired Dr Who staple of waiting for characters to solve a mystery to which we already know the answer with the most annoying bunch of supporting characters bitching at one another. I get what they were going for - these characters are forced to work together for money but they don't like or respect one another, but by God they're so annoying. And they become more annoying still when the Doctor and Leela run into them and they just refuse to listen to the possibility that the Doctor isn't a murderer. Series 13's Planet of Evil handled such a setup so much better. Thankfully the story gets better later on, with the supporting characters getting thinned out enough that they stop carping at one another and the mystery moves on from who is doing the killing to why and who is controlling them. And this side of the mystery is pretty well done, keeping me guessing between Dask and Poul as the mastermind. Defeating the villain by manipulating his voice pattern was also well-handled, being clearly signposted throughout without becoming obvious. The ending was very abrupt though, almost like they ran out of time. The story also features some very good costumes and the robots have quite a cool design - more human than the Daleks and Cybermen while still being wholly machine-like. I also liked the Doctor pairing with D84 to solve the mystery. It's a pity about the first half and the fact that Leela doesn't have much to do (though I like her reliance on instinct over knowledge - stops her becoming another Jamie lost amongst sophisticated technology) and the Doctor has reverted back to grumpy mode, biting Leela's head off for no reason.
The Talons of Weng Chiang Elephant in the room: this is pretty racist. A Yellow Peril henchman played by a white man in make-up has not aged well and was probably a bit dated even in 1977. If you can look past that though, this story is a lot of fun. Leela really comes into her own in this story, charging into action at every opportunity and actually being pretty capable at it too (bar when she proves absolutely useless at stabbing folk at the end and ends up a damsel in distress after all). The Doctor is in good form now, relishing his Sherlockian persona and drumming up some good banter with the amusing Professor Litefoot and Henry Gordon Jago. Despite the unfortunate racist stereotypes, Li H'sen Chiang proves to be a fairly complicated villain, seeming to suffer existential despair at the abandonment by his god. Mr Sin is creepy as hell too, reminding me of the plastic troll thing from Terror of the Autons. There's also some giant rats, a fair bit of action and the whole 19th Century look just seems to suit the series. There's a definite Jack the Ripper vibe to proceedings but with a sci-fi twist - the show did quite well in having a clear prostitute character while still keeping things suitable for the family. Unfortunately, Weng Chiang just isn't a great villain. The concept of a human who has stumbled into a facsimile of Time Lord technology and become a sort of god is a good one but he comes across as a whining, petty coward. Which I suppose was the point, but things definitely feel less fun when he takes over as the main villain.
Series 14 rankings 1. The Face of Evil 2. The Talons of Weng Chiang 3. The Hand of Fear 4. The Masque of Mandragora 5. The Robots of Death 6. The Deadly Assassin
Also, I should probably update my companion rankings to include Sarah and Harry. Despite me taking some time to warm to her, I thought Sarah really helped bring some comedy and emotion to the series. I don't think she's up there with Jo or Ian, but she's probably slightly better than Barbara. Harry had potential, but the show never seemed to know what to do with him exactly - a bit like Steven and Victoria so I'll put him just below them.
1. Jo 2. Ian 3. Sarah-Jane 4. Barbara 5. Ben 6. Liz 7. Vikki 8. Steven 9. Victoria 10. Harry 11. Zoe 12. Jamie 13. Polly 14. Susan 15. Dodo
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Post by CharlesX on Mar 30, 2022 11:55:17 GMT
You're right Talons Of Weng Chiang is considered racist, I think it's one of those shows which aren't on certain social media (Britbox for sure, I think you can still get it on DVD) along with Fawlty Towers because of The Germans episode and Little Britain because they have a guy who blacks up. Kinda shows how far Who has changed now when they have an episode about Rosa Parks.
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kieran
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Post by kieran on Mar 30, 2022 12:15:06 GMT
You're right Talons Of Weng Chiang is considered racist, I think it's one of those shows which aren't on certain social media (Britbox for sure, I think you can still get it on DVD) It's on Britbox (that's where I watched it) but it has a warning about offensive content. A few of the other stories have carried the same warning - The Aztecs for example.
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Post by The Editor (Alex B) on Mar 31, 2022 18:29:59 GMT
You're right Talons Of Weng Chiang is considered racist, I think it's one of those shows which aren't on certain social media (Britbox for sure, I think you can still get it on DVD) along with Fawlty Towers because of The Germans episode and Little Britain because they have a guy who blacks up. Kinda shows how far Who has changed now when they have an episode about Rosa Parks. The story came out as part of the Season 14 blu-ray set a year or so ago. Fandom has almost weekly debates about the racism of this story on internet forums. Nobody argues it isn't racist. The argues are about just how racist it is, could the production team have made more attempts to get real Chinese actor to play Li, was the writer aware of how racist he was being etc.
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Post by The Editor (Alex B) on Mar 31, 2022 18:34:49 GMT
Up to this point, the show has given me an impression of the Time Lords that they are wise, far-minded, almost god-like beings who if they have a fault it's that they are too aloof, leading them to view those who take more of an interest in mundane affairs like the Doctor and the Master as foolish mavericks. Well, I can forget about all that now because this story has them as a bunch of small-minded, petty bureaucrats with no understanding of their impressive technology and no concept of higher ideals. If I can forgive it that, this is an OK story. There was a famous negative review by a fan back in 1977 that I'll reproduce here:
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Post by CharlesX on Mar 31, 2022 19:12:08 GMT
Equally applicable to the Eccleston reboot, which has The Doctor a very cliche\trope 'last member of his race', and increases the moralizing and Mary Sue personality of the character (although I get they move with the times, they appeal to different age groups, and one of the less sanctimonious is Peter Capaldi, who has shades of Hartnell and McCoy about him). I can't accept either the Time Lords as petty and squabbling or as perfect creatures, so I'm quite willing to go along with the 'weird nightmare' game. Whether or not you can pilot a TARDIS through the continuity errors in Deadly Assassin, it has some good concepts, the Doctor fighting for his life and almost drowning to death was really good and very nuanced and non-patronising for an audience of kids (no apologies to the late Mary Whitehouse), the Doctor having had many previous, unmentioned regenerations, and so on. I'm not 100% sure it's Deadly Assassin which has images of The Doctor's pre-Hartwell regeneration faces (in other words, I'm probably wrong) but either way I think it's a good Tom Baker story in spite of its shortcomings.
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kieran
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Post by kieran on Mar 31, 2022 22:59:16 GMT
Yeah can't really argue against any of that. I do find it odd that the showrunners let this one through.
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kieran
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Post by kieran on Mar 31, 2022 23:04:29 GMT
I'm not 100% sure it's Deadly Assassin which has images of The Doctor's pre-Hartwell regeneration faces No, that was in The Brain of Morbius.
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Post by CharlesX on Apr 1, 2022 3:49:53 GMT
I'm not 100% sure it's Deadly Assassin which has images of The Doctor's pre-Hartwell regeneration faces No, that was in The Brain of Morbius. Haha I knew I was wrong when I wrote it!
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Post by Peter on Apr 2, 2022 6:50:41 GMT
Good reviews kieran. I remember watching most of series 14.
I thought The Hand of Fear built the tension very well. I remember being a bit bemused by The Deadly Assassin - "is this what Time Lords are really like?". The Face of Evil left a good impression on me, partly because of the unresolved ending as you noted. The Talons of Weng Chiang has been voted as one of the best stories, and I agree with the majority here. It is a well-written murder-mystery. The derogatory stereotypes are impossible to ignore, though.
In short, I agree with pretty much everything you said. Sarah-Jane Smith was a very likeable character, so much so that she was brought back for a spin-off series, which I also enjoyed.
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Post by a moderator on Apr 6, 2022 15:28:07 GMT
I've been listening to the Big Finish Fourth Doctor audio The Crooked Man, and it contains a Fighting Fantasy reference. The villain is able to summon characters from books into reality, and at one point a policeman (and closet nerd) recognises that they're being attacked by a creature that's 'virtually impossible to defeat - they've SKILL 12 and STAMINA 14'.
When explaining how he knows about this, he says 'I used to read Choose Your Own Adventure books', but since people often use that term as a substitute for 'gamebook', it's forgivable.
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Post by The Editor (Alex B) on Apr 8, 2022 9:49:04 GMT
I’ve completed the McCoy era. Will watch the 1996 TV movie over the weekend and take a break till the next school term whereupon I’ll start the 2005 series..
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kieran
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Post by kieran on Apr 8, 2022 10:45:32 GMT
I’ve completed the McCoy era. Will watch the 1996 TV movie over the weekend and take a break till the next school term whereupon I’ll start the 2005 series.. Well done! I've definitely slowed down quite a bit in my watching of late - still plan to get through them all though. How would you rate the McCoy era? I know there's a few fans on the board.
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Post by CharlesX on Apr 8, 2022 11:08:38 GMT
How would you rate the McCoy era? A mixed bag. McCoy himself definitely fitted the role, as did Sophie Aldred\Ace, there were some good stories such as Greatest Show In The Galaxy, and some poor stories such as The Silver Nemesis. I have to be honest and say the number of better than average stories\episodes was probably fewer than the number of filler or poor stories. Some of the special effects stand the test of time, such as the minutes-long shot over the space ship which owes something to Star Trek The Motion Picture, others such as The Candyman just seem reminiscent of 70s Who at its most average. I'm definitely not defending the cancellation, which I would say was political as much as anything else, but there was a decline in overall quality on the whole. Some of the later McCoy in particular had heavy hamming, and guest stars such as Reeves And Mortimer who weren't taking it seriously (as an aside, while I think Colin Baker was a good Doctor, Bonnie Langford has to rate as one of the most unusual companions, possibly worse than Catherine Tate even though I like both women).
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kieran
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Post by kieran on Apr 8, 2022 13:00:17 GMT
and guest stars such as Reeves And Mortimer who weren't taking it seriously I didn't realise they were even a thing yet in that era. It does sound a bit cringe.
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Post by a moderator on Apr 8, 2022 13:07:51 GMT
Reeves and Mortimer were never in televised Doctor Who.
Hale and Pace, on the other hand...
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Post by CharlesX on Apr 8, 2022 13:55:43 GMT
Reeves and Mortimer were never in televised Doctor Who. Hale and Pace, on the other hand... You are right, it was Hale and Pace who appeared in Survival, Reeves and Mortimer having absolutely no role in televised Doctor Who. Although they did a skit about it on their own show at one point.
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Post by The Editor (Alex B) on Apr 13, 2022 19:47:25 GMT
How would you rate the McCoy era? I know there's a few fans on the board. Season 24 (McCoy’s first) is okay after a bumpy start. Season 25 does feel like a revamped show. The stories feel much faster in pace and his last story “Survival” doesn’t feel a million miles away from the new stuff.
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kieran
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Post by kieran on Jul 1, 2022 9:05:16 GMT
Series 15 was, um, not great. Quite possibly the weakest series so far.
Horror of Fang Rock This one gets off to a nice creepy start, but sadly it kinda falls apart as it goes on. In terms of horror settings, you can't really go wrong with a lighthouse on a stormy night and the first person view of the alien adds to the creepiness. When the survivors of the wrecked ship join in, there's a fairly diverse bunch to provide cannon fodder for the alien but unfortunately they come across way too disposable. The likeable Hawkins is killed without the other characters even knowing about it and Palmerdale's redemptive self sacrifice is greeted with little more than shrugs by the Doctor and Leela. As for the alien itself... yeah, it probably should have stayed masquerading as Reuben rather than adopt its hairy green gobstopper form. Otherwise, the Doctor and Leela are in good form. I really like how independent and feisty (not to mention bloodthirsty) Leela is and her clashes with the Doctor about morality. Not a bad start, but it's a pity it couldn't keep the atmosphere of the first 2 episodes going.
The Invisible Enemy A lot crammed into 4 episodes here. What starts off as a typical base-under-siege story then moves to a much larger base then turns into a sort of take on Fantastic Voyage. This stops the story from ever being boring and the idea of a villain who needs to be battled at both the micro and macro level is a good one. There's some decent action scenes courtesy of Leela who gets another strong story here. Unfortunately the Doctor acts like a jerk to her for no apparent reason - why bring her along for her expertise as a hunter only to ridicule her for her sense of danger? Professor Marius is a fun character and K9 just about avoids being annoying. Some fairly ropey SFX let it down a bit (not something I normally comment on but the show has done better than this before) and I felt a bit more could have been done with the Fantastic Voyage segment - they may as well have been exploring a cavern for the most part. I'm also not sure Leela's immunity made any sense - if it's psychological rather than physiological, how can it be turned into a vaccine? The cloning also seemed a bit out of nowhere. But these are nitpicks really, I very much enjoyed this one. Interestingly, this story opts for a somewhat Cartesian view of the mind - not something I've come across much in sci-fi!
Image of the Fendahl There's some good imagery in this one (fitting considering the title I guess!). The skull is pretty creepy and I like when Thea is turned into an evil Sibyll-type creature. I also think this manages to mix sci-fi with the occult in a much more convincing way than The Daemons or The Masque of Mandragora. Having said that, it's not half as fun as either of those stories. The script is pretty leaden and the actors try hard to inject some life into it and mostly fail. And considering just how high the stakes are here, the finale feels bereft of any tension. Throw in some largely unamusing banter between The Doctor and Leela about whether K9 is an It or a Him and this story is a bit of a duffer.
The Sun Makers I like a good dystopia and this one started off pretty well. The Gatherer was likeably pompous and the idea of an all-encompassing monopoly extracting the absolute maximum wealth from its workers and then hitting them with crippling taxes to boot is suitably bleak. Unfortunately, as it goes on it just gets worse and worse. The likeable Gatherer soon plays second fiddle to the the Collector, probably the most cartoonish villain so far. He's kind of like someone took Davros and mixed him with The Hood from Thunderbirds and then somehow went to the future to pluck the grandmother from The Kumars at Number 42 to add her to the mix. He's certainly evil, seeing humankind as purely a resource to be used up and discarded, but why would anyone take such a ridiculous figure seriously in the first place? The Gatherer ends up getting killed for thinking he can end a revolution by raising his voice and his assistant changes sides at the earliest opportunity. It's a wonder how a system so oppressive and yet so fragile persevered this long! As for the revolutionaries, they are mostly annoying and unlikeable, fast evaporating any sympathy for them. Then there's the absolutely terrible sets (featureless white corridors, machines clearly made of cardboard and a surface of Pluto resembling a carpark in Harrogate) and Leela having to play second fiddle to K9. On the plus side, it's one of the Doctor's most likeable performances in a while with some good jokes and moralising.
Underworld I quite like the premise of this one: a crew who have been on the same mission for countless millenia and how it's become almost a religious obsession for them at this stage. I also liked the Doctor and Leela's interaction with the crew and how the story manages to avoid the usual headbutting. When it moves towards the underground society, I'm a bit less fussed about it. I don't think we needed another society of exploited workers so soon after The Sun Makers. It's presented a bit more simply here, but at least the workers are a lot less annoying. The sets are also a lot better this time although the green screen used for the tunnel sequences never quite convinces - at one stage Leela's foot seemed to go through a rock. Speaking of the tunnels, I'm definitely no physicist, but wouldn't the pressure in the planet's core be intense? The revelation that the inhabitants of the new planet are the descendants of the Minyans was a bit obvious, but I did like the Doctor convincing the crew to take them on board on the grounds that they represent a successful completion of the quest just as surely as using the race banks would be. It might have been better for the race banks to have been destroyed to really hammer this point home, but I still think it works. The villains are a bit meh. I like the costumes, but the oracle is just a retread of countless evil AIs we've seen before. Decent enough adventure all told, but probably not one likely to stick in my memory.
The Invasion of Time The first two episodes of this story are incredibly annoying. The doctor capers about at a frantic pace, talking to himself and yelling at people (even more than usual) with no explanation as to what he's about. Now, there is a good reason for this, but it's still a pain to watch. When we get to episode 3, the frantic pace eases, we get some explanations and there's a good subplot where Leela turns some renegade Time Lords into an army. Unfortunately, this plot ends up having no impact whatsoever on the overall story. The Vardans are ok villains though I share Kelner's disappointment when they turn out just to be humanoid. That they and the Doctor turn out to be puppets for the Sontarans is a clever(ish) twist but the Sontarans are extremely dull and one-note villains. In the end the Doctor ends up outfoxing them by shooting them with a big gun. I don't know why he bothered, just give Leela a few throwing knives and she could have done the job. The whole finale is pretty limp, with the characters running around what looks like the backstage of the BBC studios. I'm still not a fan of this portrayal of Gallafrey, but I did like the Doctor's banter with Borusa and the snivelling Castellan Kelner (although why is he so afraid of death when Time Lords are essentially immortal?). Rodan and Andred are also decent supporting characters. Speaking of Andred, it's a shame to see Leela join Susan and Jo in leaving the Doctor to settle down with a nice boy she's shared about 3 lines of dialogue with (though at least Andred actually is a nice boy unlike Professor Cliff). It's a poor swansong for one of my favourite companions. The story also tries to trick you that we're losing K9 too. I'm not sure the revelation that there's a K9 Mark II merited the Doctor's mug to the camera.
Series 15 ranking: 1. The Invisible Enemy 2. Underworld 3. Horror of Fang Rock 4. The Invasion of Time 5. Image of the Fendahl 6. The Sunmakers
And I guess I'd better update my companions ranking. I thought Leela was great - kinda like a better done version of Jamie, she was a fish out of water who adapted quickly, did well in the action scenes and let the Doctor's moral side come out a bit. I'll put her just below Jo. And as UNIT wasn't even mentioned this series, I'll go ahead and add the Brigadier in. A bit of a hard character to rank, he obviously clashed badly with the Third Doctor and could be annoying but he did bring some decent comedy and tension to the series. I'll put him below Liz, but above Vikki.
1. Jo 2. Leela 3. Ian 4. Sarah-Jane 5. Barbara 6. Ben 7. Liz 8. Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart 9. Vikki 10. Steven 11. Victoria 12. Harry 13. Zoe 14. Jamie 15. Polly 16. Susan 17. Dodo
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Post by CharlesX on Jul 1, 2022 9:59:14 GMT
I will never be able to think of 'Leela' again without remembering Matt Groening's equally cool series Futurama. Aside from being an intelligent feisty female, the character arguably has little in common with her Who namesake (though that's probably enough), Matt Groening is obviously a bit of a Whovian. As you remark it sometimes feels like The 4th Doctor talks down to his companions, particularly female ones (Jo, Liz and Sarah Jane Smith even point this out, humorously), UNIT and other humans, this element was toned down in the eighties when Ace often played a large, even independent role, and in the 2000s onwards when The Doctor became less judgemental or more politically correct, as you like it. Tom Baker's Doctor obviously casts a long shadow but his portrayal was not without its shortcomings.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,434
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Post by kieran on Jul 1, 2022 10:18:06 GMT
As you remark it sometimes feels like The 4th Doctor talks down to his companions, particularly female ones (Jo, Liz and Sarah Jane Smith even point this out, humorously), UNIT and other humans, this element was toned down in the eighties when Ace often played a large, even independent role, and in the 2000s onwards when The Doctor became less judgemental or more politically correct, as you like it. Tom Baker's Doctor obviously casts a long shadow but his portrayal was not without its shortcomings. Yeah, I mean Hartnell's Doctor was snappy and I quite enjoyed that, but it seemed more amusing when he did it - it made him seem foolish rather than the people he was snapping at. Pertwee's Doctor could be pretty scathing though at least he was grumpy in general and he could be quite warm when the situation called for it. Baker's Doctor seems to be quite fun-loving except with his companions who he's rude and impatient with. And yes, I did keep thinking of Futurama's Leela as well!
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Post by The Editor (Alex B) on Jul 3, 2022 9:24:55 GMT
Series 15 was, um, not great. Quite possibly the weakest series so far. This is likely the result of a number of factors. 1) Upon the broadcast of Part 3 of "The Deadly Assassin" in the December of 1976, Mary Whitehouse (a prominent UK 'right morals' campaigner) complained to the BBC about the cliffhanger to that episode (a freeze frame on the Doctor's head being held underwater), a complaint that was somehow taken seriously (her previous complaints about Doctor Who had been ignored). As a result, Producer Philip Hinchcliffe was removed from the TV show (and moved over to a new police drama "Target"), replaced by Graham Williams (the Producer who had been developing "Target"). Williams was immediately told to reduce the horror content of the show. 2) With Hinchcliffe unceremoniously shuffled off, Script Editor Robert Holmes decided to move on, being replace by Anthony Read after the first 3 stories of Season 15. 3) Knowing he was now leaving, Hinchcliffe was happy to over-spend on the last two stories of Season 14 ("The Robots of Death" & "The Talons of Weng-Chiang"). Season 15 would be 'punished' for this overspend with less money. 4) 1977 is the year inflation went mad in the UK, meaning that by the end of Season 15 the £ had less buying power than it had at the start. The season starts off being able to afford night shoots ("Image of the Fendahl") etc. but the money is all gone by "The Invasion of Time". 5) Tom Baker had lost the supporting actor he respected (Elisabeth Sladen as Sarah) and with a change of Producer stretched his star power, becoming much more pushy. His relationship with Louise Jameson was not smooth and Williams was apparently averse to conflict and so tended to let Tom get his way. Paddy Russell (who directed Tom in Season 13's "Pyramids of Mars") found him a lot harder to work with hen directing "Horror of Fang Rock". 6) They had planned to open the season with a Vampire story by Terrance Dicks, but at a late stage the BBC bosses said you can't make that as it might be seen as a send up of the "Dracula" adaptation we're currently making. So they had to replace it with a new script ("Horror of Fang Rock") at the last minute and as a result "The Invisible Enemy" was the first story shot of the season. 7) The K9 prop cost a lot more than expected, so money was saved by making him a regular. As you can tell, "Image of the Fendahl" wasn't written with K9 being around in mind. 8) The original season finale was "Killers of the Dark", but when the scripts came in at a late hour they were found to be too expensive and unworkable. "The Invasion of Time" was written by Graham Williams & Anthony Read at the last minute as a replacement. In addition the recording of this story was affected by union strikes at the BBC. They were able to avoid losing recording dates by shooting on location (hence the inside of the TARDIS becomes an abandoned hospital!) - these union issues would affect the end of the next 2 seasons.
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