Post by johnbrawn1972 on Aug 22, 2016 21:58:12 GMT
I cannot find any further improvements. I have posted an updated more rational 12-24-12 solution which is much more direct rather than the acquire everything solution before. One major change is now to use luck to avoid acquiring Codex Mortis. This means fighting the Shadow King which is much cooler and a more fitting end in my opinion. You acquire Nightslayer in this system because you should have the weapon suitable for Revenant. Others can say whether to apply the combat bonus or not though it clearly applies with the Shadow King. It is only one more round than the Amethyst Blade so I believe it is superfluous.
I have included networked solutions in both systems which have been a nightmare to work out. The irresistible challenge set out by Champskees namely a system that generates cascading choices had to be attempted.
If others abandon my 'Scream' rules then they may generate a different solution but I have tried to obey the spirit of the rules.
Post by johnbrawn1972 on Aug 23, 2016 13:00:51 GMT
I have just realised my 12-24-12 solution has become so complicated I cannot see the wood for the trees. First I am not sure the Spirit Stone is necessary but it does make the end a lot easier. I have just realised you are supposed to use the Black Hourglass first and the Spirit Stone last. I will have to change it this evening. What about if you do not acquire Spirit and only have the Black Hourglass at the end? This may entail fighting the Shadow King?
Post by johnbrawn1972 on Aug 23, 2016 21:56:54 GMT
Updates now completed. I realised the Codex Mortis is superfluous on the one hand and can be automatically avoided with the luck roll. If you do not acquire the Spirit Stone you are so powerhouse you should win in four attack rounds.
Intermediate initial dice rolls generate scenarios which call on both systems and the general help guide.
Post by johnbrawn1972 on Aug 25, 2016 22:08:16 GMT
One last post on the 12-24-12 solution. An update has just been inserted. I realised why go searching through the tower for the Spirit Stone when you can bypass it.
This entails fighting the Shadow King which seems a fitting conclusion.
The beginning is similar to the 7-14-7 solution because you acquire a great deal of will which is highly advantageous. If you are supremely unlucky with the dice rolls you reach Rest in Peace with 13 will so you would have to roll a double 6 to fail and if that concatenation of events unfolds I would suggest buying a strip of lottery tickets.
On this route it seems right to acquire Nightslayer so I bypass the Amethyst Blade. There is an encounter early on where you need a magical weapon to do full damage so this 'feels' right.
Post by johnbrawn1972 on Nov 10, 2016 11:19:19 GMT
Not a massive change to the 7-14-7 solution but a modification. The Korzen question. To be or not to be. After much thought I have made one adjustment which is to take Korzen if your will is at least 12, your stamina is at least 9 and you have no death codewords. The upshot is you will probably die at the encounter with the spirit stalkers but you will only fail the will roll if you throw double 6. If you do throw a double 6 then it is a bit tricky because you will be pulverised by the Sin Eater which is a problem because you miss the Watcher at the 'correct' encounter and have a good chance of acquiring the Endgame codeword which is 'game over', as Hudson would put it, when you discover who is the Lord Of Valsinore.
Post by johnbrawn1972 on Nov 12, 2016 19:16:08 GMT
Night Of The Necromancer transcendental deduction for 7-14-7. Updated 22.12.16.
1 Follow the rules. First Death is only acceptable until gatehouse otherwise it is destabilising. If you have bad rolls then accept Marrok and see how far you can go.
2 So when you reach gatehouse you will probably die therefore you acquire Second Death which sets you up perfectly for paragraph 250.
3 If you reach gatehouse without dying then follow the rules as in my solution and even if you are supremely lucky the later section will generate Watcher.
4 You need a bit of luck to beat the Second Death Sin Eater as another poster mentioned but with full attributes you should make it on balance.
5 Korzen and Cador is an unlikely special bonus and Cador is a slightly more likely bonus. If you do not acquire Cador then Marrok is essential.
6 If you are very unlucky and fail the will roll that generates the -2 will, -1 skill and -2 luck outcome then you will probably lose against the Phantasmagoria where you need to make the will roll to have a reasonable chance. This makes entering the Shrine less likely. Nevertheless the vitally important will roll to spook Marrok should succeed.
7 If you are left with codeword Endgame at gatehouse then you are finished. The ‘rule’ here is paragraph 250 is necessary otherwise you cannot answer the third question. This is why the beginning is difficult. If others think differently they should post their raw data and reasoning.
8 The upshot is to acquire Cador or Marrok to win as any other is too weak to have a reasonable chance. For instance their ‘blessed’ weapons.
9 The Third Death is ‘necessary’ to acquire Black Hourglass at the right time. Also Fourth Death is likely if you fail the skill roll and lose a lot of stamina. The superior 9 skill is likely to decimate your 8 skill attribute.
10 The luck roll to avoid the Bonebeasts is a gamble. If you fight them then play to win. If you find yourself in a risky position and losing then escape. It depends on if you roll Cador or Marrok and how difficult an opponent you encounter. It is a trade off between the Codex Mortis and the final encounter. It is a case of winning one or the other.
11 The later encounters are now more subtle so you can exploit the situation as you see fit. If you have to fight the last encounter you are only at a -1 skill disadvantage but the stamina differential should see you through. The damage done by the Amethyst Blade compensates.
Yet another reply to myself. I have one final update to post for the 7-14-7 solution.(I am at work and my home connection is broken) I have realised the 50% chance of acquiring spectre is useful and not superfluous. First if you have shade enter the Inn to acquire apparition on a roll of 2-10(most likely) Second enter the shrine and hope you make the will roll. If now have spectre and 12 will enter the house and leave immediately acquiring apparition. You must have 12 will because the consequences are potentially dire if you fail the will roll.
It must be Inn first so you have not acquired Poltergeist. Shrine must be next to acquire 12 will and only then can you enter the House.
The upshot is to have spirit or acquire spirit but if you fail you have the option of shade and apparition or spectre and apparition which renders the irritating sewer rats less likely.
Post by johnbrawn1972 on Mar 28, 2017 18:27:12 GMT
I hate to break my promise but one last solution for 7-14-7 now posted over my old solution. This is Marrok only(plus Umberto and Yorrick if you are rolling with 9d6) with proper sentences so it is much easier to comprehend. A few side bits thrown in. I have squeezed as far as possible. The crunchy encounters to acquire Shade and Spook are still there which generate tactical deaths. The bifurcated route to either acquire the Codex Mortis or face the Shadow King is still there. This solution is neat and direct plus now with readability(ala Daz).
Post by johnbrawn1972 on Sept 19, 2017 22:38:52 GMT
I promise I am not going to engage in something like a Hegelian dialectic with myself to somehow confound my own wisdom.
Why am I posting? I realised there was a bug in my 7/14/7 system and no one told me. The bug had you jumping too far forward in the text when you had the Codex Mortis. The leap was straight to Gatekeeeper when it should have been to the offering. The general idea was still correct hence no need for a long list of replies to myself manifesting Proustian exhaustiveness.
This mission remains over as far as I can tell. My mission at some point might be to have a good check of The Port Of Peril solution. My feeling is the choices should make the narrative make sense as well being a solution. My initial post did realise this idea but it probably needs fine tuning. My other projects are the remaining 6 books of the 99p buys. The other classic I have not solved to my own satisfaction is Howl Of The Werewolf.
To finish on topic in this thread I cannot find any deeper logic to change the essentials of my idea. In general acquire will, acquire Shade, go as directly as possible to gatehouse, acquire Spook, Marrok is the chosen one and you should have enough will, use luck to avoid Codex Mortis but acquire if it falls into place, acquire Soul shield so skill is 12 so you make all the skill rolls, acquire Amethyst Blade if no Codex Mortis, all deaths are tactical so you acquire Black Hourglass at the right time with the right information, if you fight at the end add the boosts to your skill 8/15/7 and you live happily ever afterwards.
One of the things I am not sure about is the mathematical probability of reaching paragraph 450 with what I have delivered with my waterfalls and sluice gates system.
Many thanks to Champskees for his help guide with consequences and also to Sylas for suggesting Marrok as an alternative. My reasoning pushed me there in the end due to wanting to avoid Fool's Bargain consequences and the extra meals help a great deal as was suggested.
My solution is pretty much definitive and finally complete. This is a bold claim but justified hopefully. I will keep eliminating any bugs I come across.
The only thing I have not explained are the tactical deaths. I will explain them in reverse order.
1 The last codeword you should realise is codeword Judgement. This happens when you encounter the Hellfire Golem in spirit form. If 1d6+1=6+1 then the -7 stamina hit results in you being sk8 st8 versus a sk9 opponent. This will probably finish you off resulting in codeword Endgame but it does not matter because you are about to Spook Marrok.
2 Realising codeword Watcher at paragraph 250 falls automatically into place. There is crucial information and there is no forfeit when you encounter the Watcher as he even helps you by gifting you the Black Hourglass which makes the final encounter cleaner. You acquire codeword Judgement.
3 Codeword Devourer is a little less easy to pin down but is most likely realised with the Dread Knights encounter. This is the best way to acquire codeword Spook. Next codeword is Watcher.
4 Your first encounter where you might meet your demise is possibly the Phantasmagoria where if you took a pounding from the Grave Golem you might only be sk8 st8(or even sk7 st8) this means you acquire codeword Devourer. It is imperative to have as few melees as possible until you are bested by the Dread Knights. This is why the Cockrow Inn(logically this must be first so you do not acquire codeword Poltergeist before you go to the Cockrow Inn thereby rendering yourself incapable of acquiring Apparition – this scenario is highly improbable but I have tried to give you the best chance. If you have 12 will and no Apparition go straight to the Burgomaster’s house where you automatically ‘win’ but do not go there with 11 will or less because the consequences can be severe) and Shrine are networked in a complex fashion. Logically you must acquire Shade or Spectre. It is now advantageous to roll for Apparition at either the Cockrow Inn or The Burgomaster’s house. If you roll Spirit this makes things much easier but if not you should be able to use Shade/Apparition or Spectre/Apparition to move as cleanly as possible to the Dread Knights. This reasoning is continuous with the decision to avoid Cador and Korzen completely so the Fool’s Bargain is of no consequence. Marrok is powerhouse especially with the +1 skill Soul Shield meaning you can best the ‘quality control’ Gatekeeper easily.
There is one thing I always wanted to ask about the rules when you die with codeword Devourer and face the sk8 st8 Sin Eater. Can you use 1 luck when your luck equals 7 to have a reasonable chance of lucky extra damage? This massively reduces the difficulty if you are trying to win with minimal attributes.
I cannot see anything in the rules, or in the spirit of the rules, against using luck in this circumstance so I have amended the 7-14-7 solution.
Post by johnbrawn1972 on Nov 17, 2017 14:19:17 GMT
Yet another bug fixed on the 7-14-7 solution.
If Champskees does a solution I can see some problems. As far as I can tell the minimum and maximum routes are incredibly different so I am not sure how this could be handled.
Another thing I would ask is can the 'rules' be obeyed? The widest strategic aspect here is to reach paragraph 250 and then paragraph 450. This suggests to me codeword Shade is necessary. Relatedly you can acquire The Black Hourglass at paragraph 250 but not before where you must make the luck roll instead.
I cannot ram this down your throat like some sort of intransigent Rimmer but what I have suggested above is I believe what the book is all about.
As far as I can tell acquiring Marrok is what it is all about(Skill 11(!) Stamina 22(!) and six meals so you have access to 46 stamina overall) so the early phase to acquire will makes sense. Your deliberate restraint about the difficulty involved if you fail to acquire spook is something of an understatement.
One radical thing I am 'sweating' over is whether to take the path of least resistance at the beginning and take your chances with the will and skill roll to acquire Shade. My only reply to this is my solution kills two birds with one stone. First to acquire Shade 1/2, 1/3, 1/6 and at the same time to acquire will(for two reasons). If you do not make any of the Shade rolls you have the backup of the will and skill rolls. If you have 12 will you automatically pass the will roll. 8 skill means it is likely you will make the skill roll. The second aspect is to have 14 will when you spook Marrok so it is an automatic acquisition. Marrok is 'necessary' as far as I can tell. Marrok gives you a +2 attack strength against the initial 'quality control' encounter. When you acquire the Soul Shield this means you have +2 attack strength against the 'quality control' Gatekeeper. This is a crushing advantage. Marrok also passes the skill rolls automatically which is a cleaner route to the final showdown.
I have just noticed something strange which I am guessing is unique compared to the other books. I am not going to go into Hegelian dialectics about this.
In my standard 7-14-7 solution if you put all the skill/attack strength numbers in a row then in the course of one attempt you will at one point or another have 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 which is the standard range of skill/attack strength. Is this unique?
Marrok is less likable, so as far as I am concerned, he can be the one to suffer possession instead of Cador.
I like to think that his ability to metabolise food quickly enough to get back to full stamina after fighting the terrible skeletal reptile is an effect of ghostly possession, as is the way the hosts double in stamina when possessed.
Post by johnbrawn1972 on Jan 29, 2018 14:13:41 GMT
Though I am relying on 'intuition' Marrok kills so many birds with one stone my instinct is to stick with my system.
The idea I have in mind is if you manage to reach Cador with no death codewords(unlikely) and have 12 will(so even more unlikely) it might be worth going to Barracks then flee option so you have met Cador. When you fight the spirit stalkers if they finish you off it does not matter as you automatically pass the First Death will roll allowing you to move to the Dread Knights where Second Death will be realized.
I am still not sure about this as Marrok might technically be the better option as Sylas suggested many moons ago rendering Cador superfluous but he does perhaps have a role if you have a very low will score but this would require Korzen. Again this is superfluous in my system because it voraciously acquires will for two reasons. First to acquire Spook and then to acquire Marrok.
If Champskees is still out there somewhere can I ask to only do my Marrok 7-14-7 system as I think this is the most coherent system and the one I am interested in when it comes to percentages.
My feeling is the unique design here will render the percentages of moderate and high attribute avatars difficult to model. My 7-14-7 is something of a sluice gates system and that has been tough enough to construct even with the low attributes making certain choices natural or inevitable.
The other thing I will ask is to ignore my 'hints' about starting again and let the codeword Endgame arise as a natural consequence of the earlier encounters.(Also with Stormslayer I think the 7-14-7 Witchtooth Line first system with the harder ending is one to go for. It is close to the madness of trying to beat Razaq with 7-14-7 but I hope the armour gives you a slim chance)
I have won this book for the second time today. Fabulous Book. Profound. Magik. I have said before that Howl of the Werewolf was the best FF book of J. Green. I changed my opinion. Night of the Necromancer is for me, no doubt, the best F.F. book of Jonathan Green. Tremendously good.