Luck replacement: Karma

[aggsol]

I guess the idea is not new but bear with me:

• Inital value is 9 (good) or 3 (bad) or rolled
  
• Testing Karma does not reduce the value
  
• Karma changes are triggered by good or bad deeds done by YOU
• Karma cannot be tested during combat
  

I never use luck during combat. I do not find it plausible to run out of luck by relying on luck nor that luck can be replenished by a potion. But instead of just a random dice cast for a random event, having a value (luck or karma) that can be influenced by the player is better. The player can optimize luck/karma to nudge it in the right direction. Also binding karma to story decisions increases their weight/importance.

[lordomnibok]

You have a lot of good ideas, Aggsol

[thealmightymudworm]

It's true that LUCK is the most difficult stat to get one's head around in the books.
The rubric at the start says (from memory) "LUCK – and magic – are facts of life in the fantasy world you are about to explore." so I'm happy to think that it might be something that works in an entirely different way to anything we're familiar with on Earth.

I sometimes think of it as being favour with the gods or similar, with the powers that be monitoring your progress and nudging events in your favour or against you. Deliberate use, such as in combat might be compared to a prayer. That might tie in with losing LUCK points as the gods tire of you always needing your help. (Perhaps that's not too far from a Karma characteristic?)

This way of thinking doesn't seem to fit with the books all the time though. Sometimes you seem to be rewarded for being heroic, which might make sense, but others seem to be more to do with your wellbeing (or just being lucky – but only when you're not testing your LUCK!).

In particular, (as you said) it's quite hard to understand potions of fortune and the like which treats LUCK as if it were a physical attribute like STAMINA which bears no relation to anything or anyone else.

[unknown]

You can replenish luck with a potion? What colour is the potion

[aggsol]

obviously yellow.

I needed a luck replacement as I wanted to remove the luck rolls from combat. imo they only add complexity to the fights. Also I wanted to avoid roll or die situations.

[philsadler]

I totally agree with the awful 'roll or die' mechanics of IL and so on. Very bad design. Although in certain circumstances they could still be OK, such as instead of an instant death.

[kieran]

Aug 3, 2018 6:41:05 GMT aggsol said:

I needed a luck replacement as I wanted to remove the luck rolls from combat. imo they only add complexity to the fights.

I think they add a bit of a tactical element to combat rather than it being just pure luck of the dice. They also help even the odds against tougher opponents.

[Pete Byrdie]

Aug 3, 2018 8:16:10 GMT kieran said:

Aug 3, 2018 6:41:05 GMT aggsol said:

I needed a luck replacement as I wanted to remove the luck rolls from combat. imo they only add complexity to the fights.

I think they add a bit of a tactical element to combat rather than it being just pure luck of the dice. They also help even the odds against tougher opponents.

Without the luck attribute, I tend to think the FF combat system is just a complicated way of determining how much STAMINA one loses before the end of battle. The same could be achieved by the text simply saying 'roll a die,' or 'roll three dice,' depending on the strength of one's opponent, 'and subtract the result from your STAMINA.' Battle over in one simple roll (although one's STAMINA would have to be in a higher range). There's no need to know one's opponent's SKILL or STAMINA stats; they vanish from existence whether they lose or prevail. (Gamebook characters are committing suicide when they initiate combat with a player, albeit with a chance of being reborn in future playthroughs. A daft thought but one I find amusing.)

The problem with using LUCK as a tactic in combat is that LUCK points often feel too precious to spend, and chances of catastrophic failure are too high.

One often loses LUCK points after being unlucky, and gain them after being lucky, which seems an odd 'fortune-doubling' mechanic. If the Universe is to balance, it would make more sense if an unfortunate event, or failed test of luck, resulted in the gain of LUCK points, and fortune resulted in a loss. Better still, abandon LUCK. Something like KARMA feels like a better alternative.

When designing my own adventure (which ultimately evolved into something very not Fighting Fantasy), I'd initially decided to change the traditional approach to LUCK. Actions considered favourable to the gods, including observing certain rites and customs, increased LUCK, and impiety resulted in a loss of LUCK. LUCK would never be lost due to being unfortunate or gained due to being fortunate, but testing one's luck still resulted in the loss of a point (that is the rule in the system after all).

[aggsol]

You bring up some very interesting ideas. I just don't like the thought that Luck is somehow consumable. I handle the gain and loss of Karma by good and bad deeds the player can do.

If Karma is not reduced by usage. How would you add it to combat? I thought about things like a lucky first strike at the beginning of the fight. Do you have some ideas? I also would like to read your adventure, where can I find it?

[Pete Byrdie]

Aug 9, 2018 8:14:48 GMT aggsol said:

You bring up some very interesting ideas. I just don't like the thought that Luck is somehow consumable. I handle the gain and loss of Karma by good and bad deeds the player can do.

If Karma is not reduced by usage. How would you add it to combat? I thought about things like a lucky first strike at the beginning of the fight. Do you have some ideas? I also would like to read your adventure, where can I find it?

I'm having a creative crisis over my own adventure. It's no longer a FF adventure (in fact, it lacks character attributes, besides money and equipment), and I'm very unsure about certain aspects of it and how it should end. So it's on the back burner for now.

Use of a KARMA score without it being a consumable characteristic might be difficult. Depending on its range, I see no reason it moulded be 'tested' as you would luck, to increase damage done to an opponent at the risk of reducing it on a failed test, and to reduce damage taken at the risk of increasing it.

[Pete Byrdie]

Of course if you're concerned about complexity in combat, perhaps at a certain level of KARMA you could get a first hit, or reduce your enemy's attack strength for the first attack. Or perhaps you could choose to take damage from KARMA instead of STAMINA, effectively avoiding a strike. Or maybe, if you take a fatal blow, a 'test of KARMA' could avoid it giving you another chance to defeat your opponent.

[kieran]

Aug 11, 2018 19:45:38 GMT Pete Byrdie said:

Aug 9, 2018 8:14:48 GMT aggsol said:

You bring up some very interesting ideas. I just don't like the thought that Luck is somehow consumable. I handle the gain and loss of Karma by good and bad deeds the player can do.

If Karma is not reduced by usage. How would you add it to combat? I thought about things like a lucky first strike at the beginning of the fight. Do you have some ideas? I also would like to read your adventure, where can I find it?

I'm having a creative crisis over my own adventure. It's no longer a FF adventure (in fact, it lacks character attributes, besides money and equipment), and I'm very unsure about certain aspects of it and how it should end. So it's on the back burner for now.

Use of a KARMA score without it being a consumable characteristic might be difficult. Depending on its range, I see no reason it moulded be 'tested' as you would luck, to increase damage done to an opponent at the risk of reducing it on a failed test, and to reduce damage taken at the risk of increasing it.

I don't know if you're aware but the Marvel Super Hero gamebooks used a Karma mechanic somewhat similar to what you're saying here. You gained Karma points for doing heroic deeds and could spend them to improve your odds on dice rolls.