aggsol
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Favourite Gamebook Series: Lone Wolf
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Post by aggsol on Jul 30, 2019 20:00:42 GMT
Lone Wolf uses a damage table to determine damage for Lone Wolf and the enemy at once. For FF that would reduce the required dice rolls for a combat round. Also damage beyond 2 and instant kills would be possible. Anyone tried that and caluclated that? How could luck be added into the mix?
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Post by a moderator on Jul 30, 2019 20:13:32 GMT
If you used a table similar to the one in the Lone Wolf books, Luck could be used to shift row or column - if Unlucky, you shift up or left (do less damage, take more), Lucky would take you down or right (do more damage, take less).
Note that the Lone Wolf tables are heavily biased in the hero's favour: against a foe of equal Combat Skill, Lone Wolf inflicts more damage than he takes 80% of the time. In FF, evenly matched opponents are evenly matched, so simply replicating the LW table would make for unbalanced gameplay.
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sylas
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Posts: 1,677
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Jul 30, 2019 22:12:19 GMT
tbh I never liked such things as damage tables. They add a level of complication for what I feel is a good simple system. I do think damage dealt in FF books should increase by +1 however (so 3 damage for a normal sword), especially with the addition of armour in later books that reduces damage.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Jul 30, 2019 23:02:56 GMT
Lone Wolf uses a damage table to determine damage for Lone Wolf and the enemy at once. For FF that would reduce the required dice rolls for a combat round. Also damage beyond 2 and instant kills would be possible. Anyone tried that and caluclated that? How could luck be added into the mix? I don't have it to hand, but the system introduced in Dungeoneer for AFF had tables to roll against for different weapons. Here's the gist of it on Titannica. I think luck was used in the ordinary way. There was also instant death if anyone could deliver a Mighty Blow by rolling a double six. I don't think the book specified if that happened even if the Mighty Blow-er still had a lower Attack Strength than their opponent. The second idea seemed pretty poorly thought through to me.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,677
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Jul 31, 2019 0:34:28 GMT
Lone Wolf uses a damage table to determine damage for Lone Wolf and the enemy at once. For FF that would reduce the required dice rolls for a combat round. Also damage beyond 2 and instant kills would be possible. Anyone tried that and caluclated that? How could luck be added into the mix? I don't have it to hand, but the system introduced in Dungeoneer for AFF had tables to roll against for different weapons. Here's the gist of it on Titannica. I think luck was used in the ordinary way. There was also instant death if anyone could deliver a Mighty Blow by rolling a double six. I don't think the book specified if that happened even if the Mighty Blow-er still had a lower Attack Strength than their opponent. The second idea seemed pretty poorly thought through to me. How about for Mighty Blows, if you win the attack round rolling any double you deal the damage equal to the number rolled (so double 4 would be 8 damage) instead of Insta-Kill.
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aggsol
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Favourite Gamebook Series: Lone Wolf
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Post by aggsol on Jul 31, 2019 7:04:07 GMT
I had a go at it.
- The damage is a bit in favour of the player
- Max damage for the player is 4 or Instant Kill
- Rolling 12 is lucky and in favour of the player
- Rolling 2 is unlucky an in favour of the enemy
- Equally skilled enemies will trade 2 damage as usual
EDIT: The table is shit, read along...
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aggsol
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Favourite Gamebook Series: Lone Wolf
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Post by aggsol on Aug 2, 2019 7:02:12 GMT
Ok, the table is shit. balancing it is way more complicated then expected. If the skill difference is 0 you would expect an even fight. But you don't want the player to loos 50% of the fights in the long run. What the FF books do is that enemies have way less stamina then the player max value.
Because the player looses stamina in the course of the adventure you have to distribute damage in favour of the player. With the FF system a lucky player can beat most enemies while receiving nearly no damage. This is difficult to map into the table... I need to think about it a bit more
I should run like 1000x1000 test combats...
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sylas
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Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Aug 2, 2019 8:33:09 GMT
I don't think damage tables work well for FF because there are frequently factors other than combat strength that need to be taken into account. Things like Luck, special items, enemy abilities etc. Lone Wolf doesn't have these things to worry about so combat plays out smoother.
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aggsol
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Favourite Gamebook Series: Lone Wolf
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Post by aggsol on Aug 2, 2019 8:58:41 GMT
I don't think damage tables work well for FF because there are frequently factors other than combat strength that need to be taken into account. Things like Luck, special items, enemy abilities etc. Lone Wolf doesn't have these things to worry about so combat plays out smoother. I will remove Luck from my adventure anyway. In FF items might add or reduce skill, are there otherfactors or effects? In LW some abilities or weapons add to the Combat Strength. My goal is to have fights that are smoother but in the spirit of FF. Maybe I need another approach...
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,677
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Aug 2, 2019 19:30:27 GMT
I don't think damage tables work well for FF because there are frequently factors other than combat strength that need to be taken into account. Things like Luck, special items, enemy abilities etc. Lone Wolf doesn't have these things to worry about so combat plays out smoother. I will remove Luck from my adventure anyway. In FF items might add or reduce skill, are there otherfactors or effects? In LW some abilities or weapons add to the Combat Strength. My goal is to have fights that are smoother but in the spirit of FF. Maybe I need another approach... Many item do flat out damage which is important. Plus damage table won't cover combat vs more than one enemy.
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kieran
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Post by kieran on Aug 2, 2019 20:31:24 GMT
Plus damage table won't cover combat vs more than one enemy. Lone Wolf had a seldom used rule for that I think. For each additional enemy, you pick a number as usual but only apply the damage the enemy does while you do no damage.
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sylas
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"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,677
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Aug 2, 2019 21:37:36 GMT
Plus damage table won't cover combat vs more than one enemy. Lone Wolf had a seldom used rule for that I think. For each additional enemy, you pick a number as usual but only apply the damage the enemy does while you do no damage. Not played them in a long time so not sure if I ever encountered this rule. Sounds awful though since you're just taking damage. IIRC healing items are scarce and food doesn't heal like it does in FF not to mention a limited number of items you can carry. Combat vs 2+ enemies seems like a mockery on your survival rating.
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aggsol
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Favourite Gamebook Series: Lone Wolf
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Post by aggsol on Aug 3, 2019 2:48:14 GMT
Combat against more than one enemy makes things way too complex to be fair. If the story needs a conflict against multiple enemies I will treat them as one like Group of Bandits or Flock of Harpies and spice it up with extra conditions.
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