Playing Them One Last Time

[babbagefart]

Playing through the series one last time. And NO cheating!! 

[babbagefart]

Fighting Fantasy Play-throughs

Thought I’d give these little puppies one last play-through before I either sell them or (much more likely) box them up again and store them away forever (or more likely for another ten to fifteen years and then bring them out and play them again). We’ll see.

So – absolutely NO cheating! That’s the rule. Play fairly. Not something I ever did, especially as a kid. I’ve bought some dice just for the occasion. And try to get through one book per week. Again, we’ll see. Let’s get started.

1) The Warlock of Firetop Mountain

Start with Skill 12, Stamina 23, Luck 12 (Jeez! Peaking too soon!?)

Right – I know I’m looking for three keys and I think I can remember where two of them are. Having played this one several times before I also have the advantage of knowing one or two places I should avoid. Let’s get going.

Part 1: Southern Section

1
71
301
82

147 – So far lost 2 Luck Points and then regained them. Nothing to see here.

208
397
240

145 – Key ‘99’. Now we’re getting somewhere.

363
370
116
378
296

42 – T-junctions are always a pain in gamebooks. One wrong turn here and I could end up missing a key. The illustrations help more with guiding my memory of previous plays than does the text.

257
372
21
339
201
293

113 – When given the option of going one way (usually east or west) or going north I plan to always take the west / east option as I believe you mostly get to turn back and get to go north anyway.

78
159
365
183
266
237
285
213
36
263
314
223
53
155
300
102
19

317 – Damn! Three pages just detached from the spine. This is an old copy of the book I’m using. Looks even older now. But anyway: two goblins and all they have is a piece of cheese? What was the dwarf carrying? Nothing?

303

128 – Another darn T-junction…

210
225
63

281 – Don’t remember ever having been here before on any previous play. Seems pointless – just a reference burner. Feels good to know that repeated plays still yield new areas though.

10
77
18
261
345
381
84
204

130 – I bet a whopping 2 gold coins. Wish I’d known. Then again – I don’t think there’s a need for coins in here.

280
311
178
162
69
244
399
218
3
272

Part 2: Northern Section

7
214
104
49
122
282
115
313
221
110
319
221
170
319
81
205
254
279

333 – The first of me losing any Stamina in battle. Crazy considering how many fights I’ve been in. Things might have been more interesting were it not for those insanely good initial rolls.

327
380
37
366
89
286
275
230
390
393
212
369
109
120
197
295
161
48

60 – Is this me in that Maze of Zagor already?

48
391
362
177
175
267
312
308
54
179 – Another Key ‘99’.
258
54
308

354 – Writing out reference numbers as you go is almost as good as mapping an area. I can check numbers I’ve already been to and it sooner or later becomes a process of elimination as the same numbers turn up again and again. Doesn’t make it any more fun though…

14
161
117
354
234
161
43
52
354
308
54
179
54

308 – The process of elimination is well underway.

160
267
246
329
299
359
385
398

12 – It’s getting to be by-the-numbers gamebook stuff now. In saying that – this was the first book so it was setting the standard. This would have been cutting edge gamebooking in 1982.

161
12
364
373
85

Part Three: Endgame

106 – At last! Out of the maze. It wasn’t as bad as I remember actually.

126
26
371
274
356
358
105

39 – I never tried using the invisibility against him before. I am pleasantly surprised.

396
242

139 – Damn! What to do here? With only two keys it simply says that I’ll have to search the mountain again for the keys I need. I think Forest of Doom gives the option of going back to the start and looking through the forest again with the same character you have. That option isn’t given here but I’m going to do it anyway. I know there are some people who take their gamebooks seriously (like – waaaaayyy too seriously) and will see this as cheating… but…

Part 4: Southern Section (again)

1 – So, same character currently Skill 12, Stamina 18, Luck 12 and with two keys (‘99’ and ‘111’) and looking for one more key, I believe in the room with the Cyclops. Let’s get adventuring.

278
156

343 – f**k.

92

71 – This is quite cool. I crept past him the first time so it would have been nice to have fought him this time. But no – my initial rolls prove to be too good for this adventure.

301
208
363
42
113
285
314
300
208
363
128
58
15
367
323
255

193 – And now I can taste victory.

338
75
93
8
273
189

25 – Rookie mistake. Still – the reduction of a Skill Point might add to the challenge in battles.

340

31 – Wtf? I have my Skill Point back. Oh well.

90
253
73
218
386
55

Part 5: Northern Section (again)

7
214
99
383
129
104
49
122
282
115
330
81
205
380
37

11 – This is one of the most memorable illustrations in the book for me (possibly in all of the books). It’s nowhere near the best – I just remember it more than most of the others. Probably as a kid looking through the book before I could read and this is an early illustration.

366
89
286
107
197
48
391
52
354
308
54
179

54 – Time to start consulting those reference numbers from the last time I was here.

308
160
267
246
329
299
359
398
364
373
85

Part 6: Endgame (again)

106
126
26
371
274
324

358 – So I’m happy to go along with this and pretend that he’s sprung back to life for a second go.

105
382

396 – It says here that if I have no keys then I’ll have to charge the door but that this will come at a cost of almost all of my Stamina. Then it says to reduce Stamina by 5 points. Just goes to show either how much the authors mistook the difficulty of the book or how easy this one is with high initial rolls. I do have keys but if I had to charge the door and lose the 5 Stamina then I would still have 13 left. And that’s after going through the mountain twice.

242
139
321
169
400 – It’s been nice here, and thanks for the offer, but I think I’ll return to the village. This gold isn’t going to spend itself.


So that’s it. Most fans of Fighting Fantasy probably have a soft spot for this one, especially if they are in their early to mid-forties as it is likely one of the first books they got back when there were only a handful of these books around. But they also likely acknowledge its shortcomings. This isn’t a criticism – Warlock is what it is and it paved the way for all that was to come.

I like the way that the creatures are weak goblins and orcs in the initial stages but then get more difficult as the adventure progresses deep into the mountain (even though my dice rolls made light work of all of them – even Zagor himself only hit me once). I also like how it would have been quite challenging had I rolled less fortunately.

I’m not so keen on how basic it is and the Maze of Zagor sucks big-time. I was getting really tired of it the second time around.

But hey – it’s better than I could do and I have the benefit and hindsight of having played dozens of these books to draw inspiration from so I do respect it.

I’m gonna rank these books as I go along.


1) The Warlock of Firetop Mountain.

[a moderator]

The portcullis just before the maze is a major obstacle to going back to the start and searching again.

[kieran]

Jan 5, 2020 22:57:39 GMT a moderator said:

The portcullis just before the maze is a major obstacle to going back

I wonder if the successful hero ended up dying of starvation.

[a moderator]

The successful hero had access to Zagor's spell book, which would probably have contained something that could help deal with the portcullis.

[vagsancho]

I will play them one last time only in my last days of life in this world.

[deadshadowrunner]

Jan 7, 2020 15:36:05 GMT vagsancho said:

I will play them one last time only in my last days of life in this world.

How would you know when your last days in life will come?

[thealmightymudworm]

Jan 8, 2020 10:09:41 GMT deadshadowrunner said:

Jan 7, 2020 15:36:05 GMT vagsancho said:

I will play them one last time only in my last days of life in this world.

How would you know when your last days in life will come?

Increasingly intense smell of brimstone, I imagine.

[babbagefart]

2) The Citadel of Chaos

5th Attempt


Skill: 12

Stamina: 16

Luck: 10

Magic: 12

Spells:

Levitation Luck Creature Copy
Fire Strength Levitation
Weakness Illusion Skill
ESP Fool’s Gold Weakness

I’m looking forward to this one more than I was Warlock due to not having played it for such a long time. I think I know what I need to complete it and know it can be done on minimum stats (surely the only one of the whole series that this might be said for) but it’s been a while so I go in only mildly confident.

Four attempts later…

Part 1: Main Gate

1
261

81 – It’s taken until this attempt to figure the ‘true path’ through the main gate. Better late than never.

Part 2: Courtyard

251
321
339
134
60
213
235
269
186

15 – Surely I have done everything there is to do in this courtyard now (including healing a man using a Stamina spell when all he did was attack me during my second attempt when I had only 9 spells and 15 Stamina).

245
161
390
350
218

118 – This brute took 8 Stamina Points from me on my first attempt.

273
371

Part 3: The Citadel

177
5
40
243
352
11
262

180 – Is this the item I have to give to Mrs Dire on the bed? I think so.

99
38
132
238
18
84

234 – I always seem to end up here.

397
193
35
174
116

210 – And here.

359
29
348
22
188
51
280
323

144 – One of the few places I have not yet been on the previous four attempts.

56
334
275
272
242
24
219
95
367
308
257
237
169
197

363 – Damn! Which door is it again to get to Mrs Dire’s room? Is it cheating to consult my previous notes?

228
296
292
42

91 – I knew it! I like how you can test your Luck more than once here to get a shot at grabbing the Fleece.

Part 4: The Tower

140
104
310
181
54
160
206
182
322
291

328 – The only other time I’ve been here (attempt 4) I used 2 Creature Copy spells to beat it. I had the maximum number of spells and took 3 Creature Copy spells – the other one I used on the Golem. Now I know better.

226
37
229
217
293
374

158 – There were times during this book where I genuinely thought that Jackson hated people but it’s great how he throws things like this in there every now and then to turn the tables and go easy on his players, as well as giving another option to beat the Hydra without the Fleece. Wish he’d write another book.

77
355
351

400 – I actually do have a Levitation spell left over so can officially complete this.


And that’s it. I get the feeling people typically think of this book as being one of the easier ones but I had some real problems. I only made it into the tower on the 4th and 5th attempts and fell foul to the Ganjees, in battle against the Golem, by being left to starve in the jail due to not having any spells I could use to get out, and after falling down a pit under the weight of a treasure chest I was holding onto.

I finished the adventure on 4 Stamina and used Luck twice in the final battle with Dire. Had I died in that fight I would have rolled another character and followed closely the path I laid out on this attempt but would have made sure I had all of the spells on option against Dire at the end. I hadn’t played this book much as a kid and only once as an adult (but that was following a solution map) and so I feel as though there were many things I didn’t know and hadn’t done before.

I also was aware that when fighting Dire at the end there are many ways he can kill you and so with a Skill of 12 and a Stamina of 14 (at the time) I fancied my chances in battle as opposed to risking an instadeath. With another less powerful character I would probably have been killed. I am aware that there are easy ways to kill him without having to resort to the sword but I made my choice and it turned out well in the end.

Overall I think this is a much better book than Warlock. It has more imagination put into it and it is more enjoyable, less generic. I feel like I could play it a few more times and still learn some more about the citadel, not that I can be arsed. I look through the artwork and see many illustrations of situations I’ve never been in during my plays and wonder how one might access them, which doors must be opened to get to them. In many ways it feels like an old-school video game in many ways where you have enemies of increasing difficulty towards the end.


Rankings:

1) Citadel of Chaos
2) Warlock of Firetop Mountain

[a moderator]

Jan 12, 2020 18:10:22 GMT babbagefart said:

2) The Citadel of Chaos

it can be done on minimum stats (surely the only one of the whole series that this might be said for) 

Nope. There's a route through Starship Traveller that involves no rolls, so even a minimum-stats character is guiaranteed victory as long as you know the right decisions to make.

With luck and wise decision-making it's also possible to beat Spectral Stalkers with minimum stats, and victory at Beneath Nightmare Castle with minimum stats is tough but doable (more so if you take advantage of the fact that the rules do not forbid exceeding your Initial Skill).

[babbagefart]

Jan 12, 2020 22:31:55 GMT a moderator said:

Jan 12, 2020 18:10:22 GMT babbagefart said:

2) The Citadel of Chaos

it can be done on minimum stats (surely the only one of the whole series that this might be said for) 

Nope. There's a route through Starship Traveller that involves no rolls, so even a minimum-stats character is guiaranteed victory as long as you know the right decisions to make.

With luck and wise decision-making it's also possible to beat Spectral Stalkers with minimum stats, and victory at Beneath Nightmare Castle with minimum stats is tough but doable (more so if you take advantage of the fact that the rules do not forbid exceeding your Initial Skill).

Thank you, Greenspine. I will take note of this in the coming weeks, especially Spectral Stalkers and Beneath Nightmare Castle which I have very little experience of. 

[marblefigure]

Keep of the Liche Lord and Moonrunner can be done on minimum stats. So can Forest of Doom. Warlock of Firetop Mountain is just about doable for a 7-14-7 character, if you read the rules carefully.

A 5-14-7 wizard has maybe 50% chance of winning the Sorcery! Series. It would be up to 70% if it weren’t for one dreadful life or death luck test.
Edited to add- Also House of Hell, though barely, IF you interpret the Kris bonus as being to attack strength. Bizarrely, the Fighting Fantasy authors often forgot their own rule regarding the difference between skill and attack strength.

[kieran]

Jan 14, 2020 15:18:06 GMT marblefigure said:

Also House of Hell, though barely, IF you interpret the Kris bonus as being to attack strength.

SPOILER: Click to show

You also need a Fear score of at least 9 unless you just guess the password which feels a bit cheaty.

[schlendrian]

Isn't there that wraith in Khare that is skill 8 and you can't use your sword (therefore not getting the 2 AS bonus)? Pretty hefty for a skill 5 mage, or am I misremembering that encounter?

[kieran]

Jan 14, 2020 20:34:57 GMT schlendrian said:

Isn't there that wraith in Khare that is skill 8 and you can't use your sword (therefore not getting the 2 AS bonus)? Pretty hefty for a skill 5 mage, or am I misremembering that encounter?

Yes, that's right

[marblefigure]

What do you mean? Of course you can use your sword, you just can’t hurt it, only fend it off long enough to pray to Libra.

[kieran]

Jan 14, 2020 22:18:44 GMT marblefigure said:

What do you mean? Of course you can use your sword, you just can’t hurt it, only fend it off long enough to pray to Libra.

Ah yes, I forgot Libra can bail you out of that one.

[schlendrian]

So did I

[The Count]

Scorpion Swamp can be done on minimum stats, though the grimslade path is the hardest as you have to fight

SPOILER: Click to show

The cursed Master of Spiders and / or the sword trees after losing a point or two of skill to the fear flowers, and pass a few luck test - fail that and it's best to find the master of gardens for that 3rd amulet...

As can Space Assassin, Rings of Kether, Demons of the Deep, Fangs of Fury, Battleblade Warrior, Star Strider and I think Daggers of Darkness and Dead of Night.


Phantoms of Fear (item path) is doable as well - but not easily...

[kieran]

According to Champskees' stats book, these are all the books where you stand better than a 50% chance of success with minimum stats (provided you take the optimal route):
Gates of Death: 100%
Starship Traveller: 100%
Appointment with FEAR: 100% (provided you choose Super Strength)
The Crown of Kings: 100% (Warrior - presuming you've already beaten Books 1-3)
Shamutanti Hills: 99.7% (Wizard)
The Crown of Kings: 95.4% (Wizard - presuming you've already beaten Books 1-3)
Spectral Stalkers: 91.4%
Citadel of Chaos: 90.1%
Forest of Doom: 86.0%
Moonrunner: 83.3%
The Seven Serpents: 80.7% (Wizard - presuming you've already beaten Books 1&2)
Robot Commando: 78.3% (Potion path)
Khare: Cityport of Traps: 67.7% (Wizard - presuming you've already beaten Book 1)
Space Assassin: 60.2%
Night of the Necromancer: 57.2%
Daggers of Darkness: 56.2%
Portal of Evil: 54.1%
Sorcery!: 51.9% (Wizard - whole saga in one go)

These books give you a decent chance (between 10% and 50%):
Khare: Cityport of Traps: 50.0% (Warrior - presuming you've already beaten Book 1)
Keep of the Lich-Lord: 46.3%
Dead of Night: 36.9%
The Seven Serpents: 33.3% (Warrior - presuming you've already beaten Books 1&2)
Robot Commando: 33.1% (Robot path)
Demons of the Deep: 27.2%
Fangs of Fury: 25.8%
Star Strider: 24.7%
Scorpion Swamp: 24.6% (Selator)
The Warlock of Firetop Mountain: 19.6%
Beneath Nightmare Castle: 15.4%
Siege of Sardath: 13.9%

These books give you an outside chance (between 1 and 10%):
Howl of the Werewolf : 9.3%
Scorpion Swamp: 9.2% (Poomchukker)
Appointment with FEAR: 2.5% (with Psy Powers)
The Shamutanti Hills : 1.8% (Warrior)
Rings of Kether : 1.2%

All the others give you less than 1% chance of success with minimum stats.

[marblefigure]

He also mentioned Scorpion Swamp - decent chance for good quest, outside chance for neutral quest.

The Sorcery! Series is an interesting case. Chances are so much better for a wizard than a warrior. The warrior path could have been fixed just by reducing the manticore’s skill to 10. Anyway... The complete quest does give a better than 50% chance to a rock bottom wizard. But starting in book 2, I suppose a rock bottom wizard would have no chance. Really, it was supposed to be played as a wizard and from the beginning.

[kieran]

Jan 17, 2020 14:26:56 GMT marblefigure said:

He also mentioned Scorpion Swamp - decent chance for good quest, outside chance for neutral quest.

The Sorcery! Series is an interesting case. Chances are so much better for a wizard than a warrior. The warrior path could have been fixed just by reducing the manticore’s skill to 10. Anyway... The complete quest does give a better than 50% chance to a rock bottom wizard. But starting in book 2, I suppose a rock bottom wizard would have no chance. Really, it was supposed to be played as a wizard and from the beginning.

Good catch - I was looking at the warrior stats for the whole Sorcery! saga and only the evil path for Scorpion Swamp. I've edited it now. Also forgot Robot Commando.

[a moderator]

Jan 17, 2020 1:05:58 GMT The Count said:

Scorpion Swamp can be done on minimum stats, though the grimslade path is the hardest as you have to fight

SPOILER: Click to show

The cursed Master of Spiders and / or the sword trees after losing a point or two of skill to the fear flowers, and pass a few luck test - fail that and it's best to find the master of gardens for that 3rd amulet...

As can Space Assassin, Rings of Kether, Demons of the Deep, Fangs of Fury, Battleblade Warrior, Star Strider and I think Daggers of Darkness and Dead of Night.


Phantoms of Fear (item path) is doable as well - but not easily...

I'm not convinced about Battleblade Warrior, with its unavoidable fights against two separate Skill 10 opponents, and the restrictions on when you can eat Provisions (plus the scarcity of opportunities to do so).

[The Count]

Jan 17, 2020 16:00:06 GMT a moderator said:

Jan 17, 2020 1:05:58 GMT The Count said:

Scorpion Swamp can be done on minimum stats, though the grimslade path is the hardest as you have to fight

SPOILER: Click to show

The cursed Master of Spiders and / or the sword trees after losing a point or two of skill to the fear flowers, and pass a few luck test - fail that and it's best to find the master of gardens for that 3rd amulet...

As can Space Assassin, Rings of Kether, Demons of the Deep, Fangs of Fury, Battleblade Warrior, Star Strider and I think Daggers of Darkness and Dead of Night.


Phantoms of Fear (item path) is doable as well - but not easily...

I'm not convinced about Battleblade Warrior, with its unavoidable fights against two separate Skill 10 opponents, and the restrictions on when you can eat Provisions (plus the scarcity of opportunities to do so).

I was thinking of Portal of Evil - I always get them mixed up, probably because both have dinosaur type encounters and I never enjoyed either enough to play more than once.

I'll also revise my Phantoms of Fear submission as you need a decent Power score to get one of the items and avoid a nasty fight

[babbagefart]

3) The Forest of Doom


Skill: 11

Stamina: 18

Luck: 8


Looking forward to this one. Know where I have to go and what I need to succeed. Kinda cheating without even wanting to. I wish there was a way the book could change where the parts of the hammer are from one play to the next…

Part 1: Yaztromo’s Tower

1
261

Part 2: The Forest

177

160 – I wasn’t sure which direction the crow was but for some reason remembered that the illustration is on reference 160. A sign that perhaps having played a book many times in the past constitutes cheating in some way in itself.

343
8
317
301
157
125
15
217
262
337
230
137
55
168

117 – This is a complete mismatch and so skipping is tempting but I said NO cheating so that means fighting it out with dice and all.

232
263
126

22 – Darn! Another rookie mistake. I’m hoping to complete this one first time through because I know where both parts of the hammer. This is a blow. More caution in future.

358
218
274
195
352
207

302 – Almost as good as getting one of those Skill Points back

109
72
138
159
142
366
127
298

Part 3: The Second Day

140
25

56 – Feels like a maze.

233
17
256
122
135
284
81

49 – How embarrassing! Injured by a Gremlin with a Skill Score of 3!? I am fighting on my hands and knees and so do battle with a reduced Skill myself but even still! Puts my Stamina down to 7.

371
93
270
229

45 – Stabbed by another Gremlin. This takes my Stamina down to 5 and my Luck to 4, which I can restore after this battle back to its initial of 8. But this Gremlin Well could actually be the death of me. Even for an ‘easy’ Livingstone book this is proving quite challenging.

165
242
121
61
398

320 – I was sure that the Gremlin Well served some purpose in the book. Whatever it was, assuming I didn’t miss it, it really wasn’t worth the risk on this occasion.

362
238
221
199

283 – At last some good news!

303
247
3
322
94
136

69 – Either green or red fungi is good while the other is bad. Intuition says that ‘green means go’ and all that. This is a children’s book after all. But I’m not taking a risk at this stage.

264
189
293
215

248 – That’s rather handy.

389 – As is that.

88
212
321

107 – I forgot about this bastard. This could be tricky.

152
249
164
144
213
306
391
379

73 – Got worried for a moment there. In later books Livingstone won’t be as forgiving. No key = no entry and fail.

327
351
292

95 – Dust of Levitation? Noooo! Is that an item Yaztromo sells at the start? Or have I missed it? So there’s essentially three items you need to complete this? Looks like I’m heading back to the start.

368
112
103
360
104
311
204
381
98

Part 4: Yaztromo’s Tower (Again)

1

261 – With 42 gold pieces I can buy a couple of Potions of Strength and any items I don’t already have. I’ll be going into this a second time as a sort of adventuring superhero. Bring it on!

Part 5: Forest (Day Three)

177
160
8
392
157
337
358

40 – Really firing through it this time, bypassing every potential event.

274
109
72
138
64
142
178
298

Part 6: Forest (Day Four)

140
267
196
39
287

25 – I’m an idiot. Forgetting about provisions and their healing properties for the whole adventure up until now. Not that I need any now but it would have been nice to know an hour or so ago.

56 – A wrong choice at any of these junctions could see me walk right past the Dust of Levitation.

163
375
236
170
346

111 – Literally never been here before in all the time I’ve played this.

150
171
190
265
356

34 – Thanks

231
224

332 – Bigleg’s map might seem terrible but given that you camp for the night just north of the river it is possible to sort of gain an insight into roughly where in the forest you are.

103
57
35
132
258
305

360 – Shit! I’ve missed it again. I’m going to have to go back to the forest a third time.

104
311
204
381

98 – Rolling a 2 and a 1 with a Luck of 7. This might actually be the most feared reference in the book if I don’t find what I’m looking for this time.

Part 7: Yaztromo’s Tower (Again)

1

261 – I now have one of everything. Except the one thing I really need.

Part 8: Forest (Day Five)

177

160 – It’s tempting to try the other direction but I KNOW that this is the route to finishing it.

8
392
157
337
358
40
274

109 – Decisions… We’ve gone east the last twice so it’s west this time and then north should we find ourselves here again.

124
180
361
396
364
194
208
99
209

28 – I possess everything.

52 – Dust of Levitation you say? I’ll take you up on that.

78

349 – I really don’t remember that encounter being so crucial to the story. I’ll know for next time. Anyway – now it’s just a case of getting back to a point that I know and following my breadcrumbs to the end.

291
145
285
388
155

83 – Lucky I had this.

139

Part 9: Forest (Day Six)

198
278
319
228
255

334 – Can’t be too much longer to go. Would be nice to see a landmark or something, like a reference number I recognise.

51
397
393
369
390
280

306 – Here we go!

391
379
73
327
351
292

95 – You bet your ass I have some Dust of Levitation

173
58
112
103
360

104 – This is the final challenge. With Skill 11 and Stamina 14 there shouldn’t be a problem.

311
204

400 – Satisfying. I feel rather good about myself.


And that’s it. Again – people say this is an incredibly easy book, and again – I’m going to say that I had some problems with it. Technically this was finished on the first attempt but only because Ian allowed me to go back to the start and try again. This allowed me to stock up (the amount of gold you can gather in the forest is surprising) on all of the items I needed.

There were a couple of times I thought I might not make it. The Gremlin Well on the first trip through had me low on Stamina and I worried that, with only an initial Luck score of 8, that if I had to keep going back into the forest multiple times I would eventually fail that Luck test against the Wild Hill Men and be killed outright before making it back to the tower. So this was quite tough – and that was with me going into it knowing where both of the pieces of the hammer were.

Rankings:

It’s a decent little book. As far as ranking goes I would say that it’s definitely not as good as Citadel but it’s quite tight between this and Warlock, with this book just edging it.

1) Citadel of Chaos
2) Forest of Doom
3) Warlock of Firetop Mountain

[babbagefart]

Jan 17, 2020 11:53:33 GMT kieran said:

According to Champskees' stats book, these are all the books where you stand better than a 50% chance of success with minimum stats (provided you take the optimal route):
Gates of Death: 100%
Starship Traveller: 100%
Appointment with FEAR: 100% (provided you choose Super Strength)
The Crown of Kings: 100% (Warrior - presuming you've already beaten Books 1-3)
Shamutanti Hills: 99.7% (Wizard)
The Crown of Kings: 95.4% (Wizard - presuming you've already beaten Books 1-3)
Spectral Stalkers: 91.4%
Citadel of Chaos: 90.1%
Forest of Doom: 86.0%
Moonrunner: 83.3%
The Seven Serpents: 80.7% (Wizard - presuming you've already beaten Books 1&2)
Robot Commando: 78.3% (Potion path)
Khare: Cityport of Traps: 67.7% (Wizard - presuming you've already beaten Book 1)
Space Assassin: 60.2%
Night of the Necromancer: 57.2%
Daggers of Darkness: 56.2%
Portal of Evil: 54.1%
Sorcery!: 51.9% (Wizard - whole saga in one go)

These books give you a decent chance (between 10% and 50%):
Khare: Cityport of Traps: 50.0% (Warrior - presuming you've already beaten Book 1)
Keep of the Lich-Lord: 46.3%
Dead of Night: 36.9%
The Seven Serpents: 33.3% (Warrior - presuming you've already beaten Books 1&2)
Robot Commando: 33.1% (Robot path)
Demons of the Deep: 27.2%
Fangs of Fury: 25.8%
Star Strider: 24.7%
Scorpion Swamp: 24.6% (Selator)
The Warlock of Firetop Mountain: 19.6%
Beneath Nightmare Castle: 15.4%
Siege of Sardath: 13.9%

These books give you an outside chance (between 1 and 10%):
Howl of the Werewolf : 9.3%
Scorpion Swamp: 9.2% (Poomchukker)
Appointment with FEAR: 2.5% (with Psy Powers)
The Shamutanti Hills : 1.8% (Warrior)
Rings of Kether : 1.2%

All the others give you less than 1% chance of success with minimum stats.

This makes for a very interesting read, Kieran. 

Great job Champskees for working out the numbers. 

I guess all it takes to make a book really difficult with minimum stats is one mandatory fight against an opponent with a Skill of maybe 10 or more.  

[babbagefart]

4) Starship Traveller


Ship:

Weapon: 10

Shield: 18



Crew: Skill Stamina Luck

Captain: 8 23 11

Science: 9 21

Medical: 10 22

Engineering: 8 20

Security: 12 17

Guard 1: 7 20

Guard 2: 8 24


Like most people I didn’t fancy this one and it was one of the few I did not own as a child but bought when I had grown out of these books (says the guy who’s currently playing through them all) and started working as a teenager just to finish the series.

I’ve played it twice in my life – once when I first played it and I failed, and a second time when I followed a solution just to finish it out of curiosity. I remember next to nothing about it though. I’ve certainly never finished it own my own.

Attempt 1: Sector 288, Stardate 21 – Wrong Coordinates
Attempt 2: Killed in battle against Manslayer Robot (183)
Attempt 3: Sector 159, Stardate 45 – Wrong Coordinates

Started mapping…

Attempt 4: Stranded in Limbo forever (246)
Attempt 5: Shot by aliens in return fire (206)
Attempt 6: Sector 083, Stardate 21 – Wrong Coordinates
Attempt 7: Executed in Extermination Chamber (309)

I’m sorry – I just had to cheat. I looked online to find the coordinates I needed and where to find them. If I didn’t then there’s no way I would have been able to keep the one-a-week thing going as this was taking way too much time. Not only that – I am sick of this book!

Attempt 8:

Bridge

1
256
86

321 – Think we’ll bypass the Sector 288 planet this time, thank you very much.

44 – This planet sucks too!

250

34 – And we’ll also skip the Rain Lord’s planet.

126

Small grey planet – This is where Jackson has been very clever. My map tells me there’s nothing on this planet other than death to some crew but not coming here means I don’t get to visit the next planet which I now know is where the correct sector is given. Good work, Steve…

66
18
337
284
11

Blue Planet

2
222
98
127
53
293
322
113
166
338
20
166
293
322
214

305 – Died here during attempt 4

113
192

293 – How boring…

338
20
113

166 – Think I might be caught in a loop with no way out…

293
322
214
318

232 – I was so close to closing the book. Genuinely thought there was no way out of that maze if you took a wrong turn. Should have mapped it and not just the planets.

41 – It’s all but completed now…

253
109
320
104
118
4
148

229 – Stardate 21

191
120
296
324

216 – Sector 159 minus Stardate 21 = 138

138

400 – eh, I mean – 340!?



And that’s it. When I started this adventure it was refreshing to roll for all these different characters and during the story I did get the feeling of being part of a crew and not just trudging around on my own as I have been the last three books. I feel like Steve could have used these characters a bit more.

This book was HARD! Now that I can look through the walkthroughs to see where I went wrong I notice that it can be completed in just 41 choices. It’s very similar to Citadel in that way. However – I still think this book is very difficult and I have had to cheat for the first time in this series to finish it. I didn’t cheat with battles and dice rolling – just peeking to see what coordinates I need. Players who know the book very well will go into it with this same knowledge but won’t be considered cheats. But I’m just trying to justify things…

I actually don’t think this one completely sucks like most do. There are some boring parts in it but the idea of planet-hopping means that environments can change dramatically from one set-piece to the next. I also don’t want to judge this book on the later ones and only on the books that had already been released up to this point.

Jackson was clever in the way that sometimes you are given different choices when beaming back from a planet than if you had not visited it. This makes the true path quite tough to find. Again – I’m judging by the standards of the time and long before authors figured out keywords and hidden references and clues in illustrations and secret languages that must be deciphered and all the other ways they figured out to taunt us, and so I think Steve deserves some credit for this.

It’s not amazing. I don’t think it’s completely shit either. But I really was getting tired of it by the end.


Rankings:

There will be some people in the world who would rank this book as not being the worst out of the first four. But I’m not one of them (just).

1) Citadel of Chaos
2) Forest of Doom
3) Warlock of Firetop Mountain
4) Starship Traveller

[babbagefart]

5) City of Thieves



Skill: 10
Stamina: 21
Luck: 10

Potion of Fortune
Broadsword

Gold: 30
Provisions: 10

One of my favourite in the series as a kid but remember not thinking as much of it as an adult. It’s been a few years since I gave it a go but I’m confident I know where I’m going and what I need to be doing.

Attempt 1: Killed in battle fighting Sourbelly.
Attempt 2:

Part 1: The Main Gates

1 – Was really disappointed not to complete this on the first attempt. Better rolls this time though, so here goes.

202
151
29
143
306

Part 2: South of the River

74
17
331
86
45
376
161
245
178
264

121 – I wonder about this. Last time this Ogre gave me a problem and knocked 6 Stamina off me. But here I am with a better character giving him potentially 8 points of Stamina in meals. I’d better smarten up fast.

71
324
282
247
384
396
145
293
24
336
302
240
36
196

148 – Playing along with the maps from Blacksand! is really fun.

287
3
37
398

378 – Lost…

52
200
117
31
329

Part 3: North of the River

238
27
223
165
139
113

141 – There’s no point. I’m at full Stamina.

375
40
168
359
91
124
326
184
55
180
344
58
171
399
87
50

271 – I love Port Blacksand. Not enough to want to live there though…

162
7
232
12
176
78
256
320
216
72
208
317
280
213

248 – Too right I can afford it. I’m pretty rich at the moment.

85
100
246
363
48

321 – It’s bits like this that make me wonder how this book is only 400 references. It feels bigger.

356
28
265
82
104
205
44
18
102
372
131
179
16
333
76
25
169

46 – Can’t remember if I need this or not but I’ve got plenty money so what the hell?

115
90
199
222
370
14
237
133

182 – He is really generous with the gold in this one.

279
307
290
219
393

73 – Wow! My first really tough battle and it’s halved my Stamina.

110
239

Part 4: Endgame

201

138 – I fought the Orc.

283
217
259
4
339
21
77
292
254
310
263
281
391
235
65
319
352
193
286
163
231
96

257 – It’s as good as finished now. Drink the Potion of Fortune for the showdown.

385
203
244

337 – Catcha later Zanbar Bone.

400

And that’s it. Love it! Port Blacksand is the best city to have had an adventure in at this early stage in the series. I love how you go into the sewer and explore the pirate ship – these things make the book seem much bigger than it is. I have it in my hands and it’s actually a really thin and tiny book.

The later section at Bone’s tower is a little boring but is thankfully short. Livingstone is actually really fair in this one (although I knew where to find most of the items before I went into the adventure – I’ll bet it’s pretty hard if you go in as a newcomer) and in terms of battles there were only one or two I had to worry about (mainly Sourbelly and Fatnose and the Moon Dogs near the end).

It’s a shame that he wasn’t in the same mood when he wrote next week’s adventure in Sukumvit’s dungeon. I might actually play through that one tomorrow to get myself one ahead as it might take a few tries and I can’t always be sure I’ll have time. After that I know there’s a couple of easier ones coming up and then Steve Jackson’s next effort, but that’s another story.

Rankings:

As for this story I think it’s easily the best of the five so far and it’s actually hard to believe that this guy’s last book was Forest of Doom. Talk about an improvement.


1) City of Thieves
2) Citadel of Chaos
3) Forest of Doom
4) Warlock of Firetop Mountain
5) Starship Traveller

[marblefigure]

Forest of Doom was a mess, but still much better than some of Livingstone’s attempts.

[babbagefart]

6) Deathtrap Dungeon

Skill: 10
Stamina: 18
Luck: 10

How I wish I could go back and play this one again for the first time. Knowing it so well has its advantages but lowers the overall enjoyment I would think. Still – I’ve been looking forward to this one since I first picked up Warlock a few weeks ago.

Right then, Emerald, Sapphire, Diamond. Off we go…

Attempt 1:

1
270
66
119
56
373
13

147 – Straightforward dungeon stuff so far…

182
25
197
156
208
326

91 – Damn! I spoke too soon. I finish this fight on 8 Stamina.

257
164
299
126
226
83
37
351
396
151

240 – Emerald. 1 down, 2 to go.

89
54
239
102
251
344
229
107
168
94
174

39 – Stamina at 11 and Luck at 8. The dungeon starting to take its toll.

111
267
68
30
319

285 – You know this ruby isn’t something needed to complete the adventure because the authors hadn’t figured out it would be a good idea to give people important items after failed Luck tests….yet.

237
12

382 – I remember taking this book into school to show my teacher to help explain this puzzle. He couldn’t understand it, nor could most of my family. They didn’t realise that the first 100 lbs was the first half. Neither did I… I do now though. Moving on…

391
100
87
381
331
71
128
35
124
81
136
210
27
78
301

162 – Sapphire. 2 down, 1 to go.

142
338
123

282 – Meeting the other contenders in one of the things that makes this book so good…

22
63
194
52
138
397
369
288
64
115
221
374

118 – My first real mistake so far in the dungeon. Have to be careful.

60 – The Trialmaster. I prefer this guy’s tests to the ones in Trial of Champions.

365
191
152
55

40 – Current character stats: Skill 10, Stamina 9, Luck 10. Might have to use my Potion of Strength after the battle with Throm.

163
363
302

379 – Skill 10, Stamina 4, Luck 9. Yep – definitely have to use that Potion of Strength.

213
108
59
341
367
244
109
24
324
256
188
155
378
112
356
170
281
399
192
120
228

150 – Another mistake? Can’t remember if the brass bell is needed. Probably a sign that it isn’t.

292
93
284
398
230
385
318
86
187
360
328
99
266
305
253
315
129
361
82
214
181

45 – Hit by the ninja. My character really starting to show signs of wear and tear now.

312
232
320

330 – Add 1 Stamina point? Really!? After almost dying to a bloody ninja and you give me 1 Stamina point for my trouble? Skill 8, Stamina 5, Luck 6. I want to go home…

269 – Another 3 Stamina points. That’s more like it.

127
90

172 – f**k…

278
134
222

196 – Dead. Just too many hard fights at the end.




Attempt 2:

Same route (minus one or two changes) Skill 9, Stamina 22, Luck 10: dead, killed by the ninja.




Attempt 3:

Skill 11, Stamina 17, Luck 12

For this attempt I’m just rolling for the fights and deducting any Skill and Stamina points along the way but sticking to the exact same path. Quite boring but we are back at the Manticore. Here we go…

196 – At last it is dead.

364
31
376

62 – Emerald, Sapphire, Diamond.

287 – Wtf? I was sure! My Stamina is now at 5. I’ll get one more shot at this.

16 – I don’t believe it! I’m down to 2 Stamina now.

177
243

400 – It’s great when you only just make it through an adventure.


And that’s it. What a dungeon! What a book! It would have been great to finish this one on the first attempt but it really is difficult and even knowing the right items I needed I still got stuck at the end with the combination and it just about cost me dearly. This book would be impossible to complete your first time round as a new player.

There’s so much to like about this. Meeting all of the other contenders is a classy element and really makes this one stand out for me in the early books of the series. Later dungeon crawls in Fighting Fantasy (even those by Ian) tended to be pretty dull as I remember (and some other series completely screwed them up) and Deathtrap Dungeon shows what a dungeon adventure can be like if it’s done right. The design and structure I think is superb.

The fact that I only just survived maybe added to the enjoyment. I still think this book holds up though. Livingstone really finding his feet in the gamebook genre.





Rankings:

I do think that dungeon-based adventures tend to pale in comparison to more complex and varied outdoors ones but Ian absolutely nailed it with this one.

1) Deathtrap Dungeon
2) City of Thieves
3) Citadel of Chaos
4) Forest of Doom
5) Warlock of Firetop Mountain
6) Starship Traveller