Crypt of the Sorcerer (revised edition)

[sylas]

A more playable version of Crypt of the Sorcerer can now be found here: 

lookaside.fbsbx.com/file/CryptOfTheSorcererRevised.pdf?token=AWw52BkOdcRxlWrYMZfbC-b7PHgcGhXoSYGE9k6eSvnrfvgWum2jUmEvvW72Kt9m3vxMYNMeegRalAAW_o_m5dBsm6c1Ts_Is9-YwP1Yb1dGcspzNNa_4DjSODWxdqR9pYKh8wlj5ZY2XuFR8ze431jeeadqe0jbgct2ttw7BdxfvQ

This is purely fan material typed up by myself with all necessary alterations and fixes added, including: clarity on Attack Strength bonuses, less probable dice deaths, more healing, and a more balanced final battle.

[dragonwarrior8]

Well done! Ive often wondered why the authors themselves dont go back and do this for the more broken books. Do they even care?

[philsadler]

Apr 23, 2020 14:00:30 GMT dragonwarrior8 said:

Well done! Ive often wondered why the authors themselves dont go back and do this for the more broken books. Do they even care?

Of course they don't care.

[philsadler]

It won't let me download it for some reason. Any chance of putting it here?

[sylas]

Apr 23, 2020 14:09:52 GMT philsadler said:

It won't let me download it for some reason. Any chance of putting it here?

I've just tried downloading and it works fine. I'm not sure how to put it here.

[sylas]

Apr 23, 2020 14:08:30 GMT philsadler said:

Apr 23, 2020 14:00:30 GMT dragonwarrior8 said:

Well done! Ive often wondered why the authors themselves dont go back and do this for the more broken books. Do they even care?

Of course they don't care.

In addition to that, many of the authors don't know their own work as well as the fans do so they might not even know what needs fixing and will not ask the people who know.

[dragonwarrior8]

Apr 23, 2020 15:07:21 GMT sylas said:

Apr 23, 2020 14:08:30 GMT philsadler said:

Of course they don't care.

In addition to that, many of the authors don't know their own work as well as the fans do so they might not even know what needs fixing and will not ask the people who know.

Interesting. I couldnt seem to find an interview or article anywhere where Ian addresses the difficulty of this book for example. (If anyone knows of one perhaps they could share?). Has no one really asked him about it in all these years I wonder? It would be great if someone would stand up at the Fighting Fantasy Fest for instance and say "My question is for Mr Livingstone. Crypt of the Sorcerer........WHAT WERE YOU THINKING?!?!?!?"

It doesnt seem like they get a lot of hard questions at those things though if they take any questions at all? 

[sylas]

Apr 23, 2020 18:29:00 GMT dragonwarrior8 said:

Apr 23, 2020 15:07:21 GMT sylas said:

In addition to that, many of the authors don't know their own work as well as the fans do so they might not even know what needs fixing and will not ask the people who know.

Interesting. I couldnt seem to find an interview or article anywhere where Ian addresses the difficulty of this book for example. (If anyone knows of one perhaps they could share?). Has no one really asked him about it in all these years I wonder? It would be great if someone would stand up at the Fighting Fantasy Fest for instance and say "My question is for Mr Livingstone. Crypt of the Sorcerer........WHAT WERE YOU THINKING?!?!?!?"

It doesnt seem like they get a lot of hard questions at those things though if they take any questions at all? 

No one wants to sound impolite and Ian is famous for not really reading his own work (or anyone else's). But if I were to ask that question, it would be for Blood of the Zombies.

[thealmightymudworm]

Funnily enough, in all the time he's been on Twitter Ian has only tweeted about Crypt twice, (although that does include a tweet giving it an honourable mention when listing his favourites). That's despite lots of people tagging him into tweets about it – and for some its difficulty borders on obsession – and his quite often responding to random tweets on the subject of FF.

[dragonwarrior8]

Apr 23, 2020 22:04:12 GMT thealmightymudworm said:

Funnily enough, in all the time he's been on Twitter Ian has only tweeted about Crypt twice, (although that does include a tweet giving it an honourable mention when listing his favourites). That's despite lots of people tagging him into tweets about it – and for some its difficulty borders on obsession – and his quite often responding to random tweets on the subject of FF.

Thank you for the info. To me that sounds like he knows he buggered it up but cant bring himself to admit it. Is it the same story with Blood of the Zombies? 

[kieran]

I think a fan who met Ian as part of a Kickstarter reward asked him about the difficulty of Blood of the Zombies and Ian apparently admitted it's probably unbeatable.

[vastariner]

Apr 23, 2020 15:07:21 GMT sylas said:

Apr 23, 2020 14:08:30 GMT philsadler said:

Of course they don't care.

In addition to that, many of the authors don't know their own work as well as the fans do so they might not even know what needs fixing and will not ask the people who know.

Or, either someone edits without their knowledge, or their previous works were properly edited and playtested but their later ones were not.

[sylas]

Apr 24, 2020 8:45:41 GMT vastariner said:

Apr 23, 2020 15:07:21 GMT sylas said:

In addition to that, many of the authors don't know their own work as well as the fans do so they might not even know what needs fixing and will not ask the people who know.

Or, either someone edits without their knowledge, or their previous works were properly edited and playtested but their later ones were not.

Someone else didn't do what they were supposed to do or did too much, has always been a good excuse.

[dragonwarrior8]

Apr 24, 2020 7:41:09 GMT kieran said:

I think a fan who met Ian as part of a Kickstarter reward asked him about the difficulty of Blood of the Zombies and Ian apparently admitted it's probably unbeatable.

Even some kind of edict from the author I think would go a long way in helping people who are sticklers for playing by the rules. Saying to "make the following modification to this section" or some such. If it verifiably came from the author I think it can safely be considered "official".  This wouldnt help of course if the whole book is hopelessly broken which it sounds like might be the case for Blood of the Zombies? 

I was impressed with Dave Morris on his Fabled Lands blog apologizing and admitting he made a mistake with the wraith encounter in The Temple of Flame after Greenspine (who probably knows the book even better than Mr Morris) politely explained it to him. This made me like him even more and I was already enjoying his books greatly. Tough to picture some other authors doing this but one can dream I guess. 

[bloodbeasthandler]

Apr 23, 2020 14:00:30 GMT dragonwarrior8 said:

Well done! Ive often wondered why the authors themselves dont go back and do this for the more broken books. Do they even care?

Jonathan Green cares - he had changes made to Spellbreaker (option of surrendering to the guards, though i think that was botched was it not?) and Curse of the Mummy. 

I would imagine that most of the authors, were they to be approached and informed that their books were to be republished but with any bugs, errors and gameplay problems fixed, would consent. They are gamebooks, not holy writ derived from divine revelation. 

Can you imagine Steve Jackson objecting to 'You find yourself...' being added to that dead end paragraph? 

Surely even Ian L would acquiesce to suggestions knocking a few SKILL points off, say, the FF9 Birdman, or put a few 'power-ups' here and there in his books?

[vagsancho]

The most beautiful FF Book.

[bloodbeasthandler]

Apr 24, 2020 17:31:24 GMT dragonwarrior8 said:

... people who are sticklers for playing by the rules.

There is an interview from 2013 on eurogamer.net which may shed light on Ian's take on this - basically that these 'sticklers' you mention above did not exist!


www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-08-16-you-are-the-hero-a-history-of-fighting-fantasy

'He says that since no one uses the combat system legitimately, there is no point in having it.' 


It doesn't apply to all the FF authors of course - that SKILL 12 mudworm was not Paul Mason's fault - and i think he was a little bit peeved that it distorted his book (what difference would it make if it was Skill 6 to the ideal solution?). Sticklers: treat the 12 as a printing error and replace it with a 6. 

[thealmightymudworm]

Apr 26, 2020 12:21:28 GMT bloodbeasthandler said:

Apr 24, 2020 17:31:24 GMT dragonwarrior8 said:

... people who are sticklers for playing by the rules.

There is an interview from 2013 on eurogamer.net which may shed light on Ian's take on this - basically that these 'sticklers' you mention above did not exist!


www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-08-16-you-are-the-hero-a-history-of-fighting-fantasy

'He says that since no one uses the combat system legitimately, there is no point in having it.' 


It doesn't apply to all the FF authors of course - that SKILL 12 mudworm was not Paul Mason's fault - and i think he was a little bit peeved that it distorted his book (what difference would it make if it was Skill 6 to the ideal solution?). Sticklers: treat the 12 as a printing error and replace it with a 6. 

I don't think I'm on the correct path anyway – unless you want to become a village rebuilder, which Paul Mason probably believes is the real win because he's quite odd.

TCT is pretty tough stat-wise anyway, not least because of the conflict between needing a decent Stamina and a low Ferocity.

Yes, my understanding of Ian's view is that everybody cheats all the time (and therefore presumably the only point of monster stats is to make people say
"Wow! It says Skill 13 Stamina 45! That is so cool. Now let's assume I've won...").

[sylas]

I don't like the outlook of 'Everybody cheats all the time', it's a poor excuse for not been able to balance your own work and shows a lack of understanding your audience. If the book is fair, people wouldn't have to cheat. Don't give them anymore incentive to.

[kieran]

Apr 26, 2020 7:47:02 GMT bloodbeasthandler said:

Surely even Ian L would acquiesce to suggestions knocking a few SKILL points off, say, the FF9 Birdman, or put a few 'power-ups' here and there in his books?

I don't know about the authors, but I remember a few fans weren't keen on Wizard making Curse of the Mummy and Spellbreaker easier (of course, Wizard buggered that one up anyway!).

[kieran]

Apr 26, 2020 15:52:41 GMT sylas said:

I don't like the outlook of 'Everybody cheats all the time', it's a poor excuse for not been able to balance your own work and shows a lack of understanding your audience. If the book is fair, people wouldn't have to cheat. Don't give them anymore incentive to.

Agreed. Why bother with a game system at all if you work under the assumption everyone cheats?

[dragonwarrior8]

Apr 26, 2020 20:28:27 GMT kieran said:

Apr 26, 2020 15:52:41 GMT sylas said:

I don't like the outlook of 'Everybody cheats all the time', it's a poor excuse for not been able to balance your own work and shows a lack of understanding your audience. If the book is fair, people wouldn't have to cheat. Don't give them anymore incentive to.

Agreed. Why bother with a game system at all if you work under the assumption everyone cheats?

Totally agree with this as well. Cheating would absolutely rob me of the feeling of accomplishment I get from beating a book. If cheating is the only way to win then why should I bother playing? The book is broken to me in those cases and doesnt deserve to be finished. I would hope its a privilege to have people buying and playing your books and that therefore due care was put into them. Its almost like there needs to be an unofficial author rule that if you cant beat your own book without cheating it shouldnt be released.  

[bloodbeasthandler]

Apr 26, 2020 15:52:41 GMT sylas said:

I don't like the outlook of 'Everybody cheats all the time', it's a poor excuse for not been able to balance your own work and shows a lack of understanding your audience. If the book is fair, people wouldn't have to cheat. Don't give them anymore incentive to.

It's like putting out an impossible to win and bugged computer game believing that everyone uses cheat codes and POKEs (remember whole sections of 1980s computer magazines given over to these.... I never used them) and other hacks like 'infinite lives' to win. 

[The Count]

I can't get it to download either.

Even if they just got rid of the ridiculous instant death if he hits you twice rule, it would be greatly improved.

I'd also remove the need to attack the bone keeper as well just because that is utterly ridiculous and makes no sense (and the loss of so much luck pretty much kills you in the end fight anyway...)

Then it would be an incredibly tough, atmospheric, challenging yet winnable book - more like Deathtrap Dungeon.

[sylas]

This is bizarre.
For everyone who can't download the file, drop me an email and I'll send it to you that way.
My email : [e-mail]

[daredevil123]

I've had a look at the revised edition and it's pretty great - it makes the book much fairer while maintaining the story. However, unless I've missed something, the Clay Golem fight remains unchanged. I think that given its chances of killing even a max stats player, some adjustments need to be made - maybe a Stamina penalty instead of death on a roll of 1?

[sylas]

May 3, 2020 16:44:12 GMT daredevil123 said:

I've had a look at the revised edition and it's pretty great - it makes the book much fairer while maintaining the story. However, unless I've missed something, the Clay Golem fight remains unchanged. I think that given its chances of killing even a max stats player, some adjustments need to be made - maybe a Stamina penalty instead of death on a roll of 1?

The Clay Golem fight has been made slightly easier. It's Stamina is reduced from 9 to 8 which is one less hit required. The roll to see if your sword sticks now only applies to when you score a hit instead of each attack round no matter the outcome. Together with the Attack Strength bonuses and Luck you can gain, the fight is still potentially dangerous but much easier to handle than before.

[philsadler]

Razaak can still kill you with 2 consecutive hits?

[sylas]

May 3, 2020 17:56:53 GMT philsadler said:

Razaak can still kill you with 2 consecutive hits?

Yes. I've done nothing to destroy the essence of the book. I've just made it much easier for you to survive. That's not to say a Skill 7 hero has a chance; he doesn't. But a Skill 10 hero has a decent chance of winning, and a Skill 9 hero with high Stamina and Luck also has a tiny chance of success.

[sylas]

Download link in the first post should be working now. Let me know if it fails again.