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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 14, 2013 23:28:37 GMT
From TUFFF... And here at last is the mammoth Crown of Kings. This is a deceptive book in more ways than one. In La couronne des rois, as expected, you are going after the Archmage at Mampang, vying for the crown of kings. But you won't be spending too much time in Mampang. Oh sure, a large part of the book takes place there, but what I meant to say is: It does not feel big. Not the way, at the very least, it is presented throughout the series. As usual, great illustrations by John Blanche and I'll give once again his cover the edge over the new one. The one by Mel Grant is well done, but who is that Archmage on the cover? I've never met a green, enraged Bruce Banner-type Archmage anywhere. Was it a choice of spell I missed? So, while the new cover is cool by itself, it's hardly on topic. At least you can't go wrong with John Blanche vision, which is aligned with Steve Jackson's own. Apart for one illustration which was mirrored in my French edition (the extremely weak Orc-like creature), all the rest was okay. The Wizard edition was darker, but overall, this time, contrary to Kharé, I felt the darkness served better the illustrations. The old beggar woman is particularly stunning, looking as though it's been chipped out of a huge wooden block. So Mampang is small? Not really. After all, it's a fortress, not a city like Kharé. It's purpose is more focus on defending the Archmage, not on offering living quarters to a bunch of misfits. From that perspective, it's ok. But after a long trek through the mountains, with more than one treacherous path, reaching Mampang and seeing it's magnitude, you would think there's a whole world still ahead of you. Not quite so. Passing through the Throben doors is a rather quick affair. It's very dangerous, but you either fail or go through. There are some spots inside that seems crowded, like the interior courtyard, but otherwise it is kept pretty simple. Once you are done with the Throben doors, you're up to see the Archmage! Of course, it does not end that way. If it ended that way, it would be a disappointing ending to an otherwise rather fantastic series. Because when you think you've reached the end, you have not. It's full of twists and turns, of unforeseen events. And that's where the story becomes epic, dare I say, legendary. Perhaps too epic for the poor adventurer who might find himself brought back suddenly to book 1... And I don't want to spoil the fun too much for the rare few who haven't read the book yet (or who knows? This board could get some fresh new faces! It's a possibility), but it's a shame the God-Headed Hydra encounter is not mandatory. This little set-piece is simply brilliant, tying in perfectly with Book 3 and just giving that much more epicness to the whole ordeal. Of course, it's possible of not knowing what the Hydra represent, of not stumbling on that piece of information in book 3, but still, if you do, what a great story angle to experience. But enough ranting. It's always been known to vets that Ian Livingstone was overall more interested in telling stories while Steve Jackson was more interested in pushing the gaming content of gamebooks in new directions, willing to try new stuff. Well, as a general consensus. But with Sorcery!, Jackson proves that, not only he is able to push gameplay forward, he is also very much capable of delivering some epic stories as well.
Thank you Steve! Speak in extremes, it will save you time.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 14, 2013 23:39:42 GMT
From TUFFF... Ahh yes, I still remember the day back in 8th grade, where I had just finished De syv slanger.
The final paragraph had left me breathless, and i couldn't wait for the final book. I rushed down to the library to ask for it, only to be told that it had not been translated into Danish. ...... WHAT?!? This bothered me to no end for years to come, and seeing as how my parents were against buying stuff over the internet, i had to wait for 6 years before I could finally order an English copy from eBay.
I'll tell you, it felt very surreal to finally get my hands on something I had been wanting for so long. I can still recall which parts of the cover were the first to be revealing as I unwrapped the package. Ok, enough about me, how about the book? First off, I like the original cover far better than the new one. I wonder who thought it would be better to depict the Archmage standing in a foggy lightshow, clearly inspired by the use of some illicit substance, rather than the sharp, frozen peaks of the Zanzunus rising through the clouds.
Inside illustrations by John Blanche, the marmite of FF illustrators. Somehow I find them both appealing and unappealing at the same time. It's weird, I can't explain it. The adventure in itself is awesome; the crags of Xamen are suitably treacherous, almost making me wish that a whole gamebook had been devoted to this area. The fortress of Mampang has always stood to me as an evolution of Dire's Citadel of Chaos. The same paranoia of never knowing who waits around the corner or behind the door, only this time, the inhabitants are even more scummy, and the traps defending the Archmage are more brutal.
It was great to finally get a release for all of the hype the three previous books had been building up. I finally got to meet the Sleepless Ram. Seriously, what would you expect from something called "The Sleepless Ram"? There's no way to know, that's why you're shaking in your pants when you finally find it.
I finally got to use the advice given to me by the seven serpents, and I finally found out what the ZED spell was for. The only think that irked me was that the locket you may have found back in the Shamutanti hills, turned out to depict the girlfriend of the captain of the guards. What are the odds? Have Ian's habits been rubbing off on you, Steve? The only thing that disappointed me was..the Archmage. It was an interesting, but much too short, experience to sit and talk with him James Bond Style, and the final battle.... a 7 / 7 opponent, whom you might as well take out with a HOT or ZAP?
Come on Steve, you can do better, you proved that back in Citadel of Chaos. That's not a worthy ending to an epic story of this calibre.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 14, 2013 23:40:29 GMT
From TUFFF... ***SPOILERS AHEAD*** The first time that I realised that the total number of references in the final Sorcery! adventure was 800 I was overjoyed and amazed that such a mammoth FF book had been published. Three decades later and I'm still just as overjoyed and amazed - the blood and tears which must have gone into writing not just Crown of Kings, but the whole four-part saga are much appreciated. The books have stood the test of time. Well, that's enough fanboy gushing, let's take a look at what Mampang has to offer. Other fans have mentioned the paranoia which pervades, especially in all that happens before you reach the first set of Throben Doors. Absolutely - paranoia is the key driving force for this book. The awe-filled dread which is written into every step that you take through Low and High Xamen is terrific. To have Libra suddenly chicken out on you just before you reach the fortress is a masterstroke. A chilling description of your first steps into enemy territory on reference 411 is made all the more effective for making you - temporarily - reduce your SKILL due to having the jitters. The paranoiac feeling is particularly strong in the two courtyards; do you brazen it out or sneak through, desperately hoping that no one stops you? The encounters that you can have with Red-Eyes and Sightmasters in these courtyards are edgy, making a lot of demands on the reader to establish whether these groups are potential allies or whether they're just trying to reel you in. It's tricky to get through those Thoben Doors, particularly as there are options to pass which seem reasonable (such as Libra's password), but are actually fatal if used on the wrong set of doors. It's doubtful that a reader would find their way through to the Archmage on the first attempt. There are plenty of other nasty surprises in store elsewhere too. The blood candle appears to be a bargain purchase - until you're given the opportunity of using it. The consequences of munching on the "ant meatballs" in Throg's larder are a horrific joyride, with eleven different outcomes. There's no way that such a luxury would've fitted into a standard 400 reference adventure. My favourite mutations which can befall you are the horn on the head (a roll of 11), the drooping super-nose (a roll of 8) and the tail/leg (a roll of 9). I'd love to have seen the reaction of the folks back home when the Crown of Kings is returned by a bizarre mutation. Meeting Jann again was a nice surprise, although must fall flat for anyone reading this book on its own. (As a follow-up of my observation of Jann's unexplained absence for books #2 and #3, there are mentions from Jann in this book that he was unwilling to venture into Kharé and that he tried to catch up with you towards the end of The Seven Serpents, but that you were too quick. I'd forgotten about this until my recent play-through. It doesn't affect my original point too much though because there still should've been a mention of his abandoning you at the start of the second book). The way that the Archmage hides away from you is handled very well and the way that you can cast the ZED spell to return to him is a suitably drastic device to begin the final showdown. My favourite John Blanche works for this book include the awesome 'hydra' (499) for its unsettling strangeness, the dead satyr (534) for its moodiness and the merchant's room (91) for - once again - filling shelves with a plethora of imaginative items. I'm not too sure what Ronnie Barker is doing in this book though (see 428). Mention must also go to the guards' latrine... Such places had never existed in FF before (or since, as far as I can recall). Although some of the graffitti uses some rather lame humour, this doesn't marr the fun of reading it - the 'towel' is wonderfully nasty.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 14, 2013 23:41:58 GMT
From TUFFF... Although some of the graffiti uses some rather lame humour, this doesn't marr the fun of reading it - the 'towel' is wonderfully nasty. Isn't toilet graffiti supposed use lame humour?
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 14, 2013 23:43:45 GMT
From TUFFF... Isn't toilet graffiti supposed use lame humour? More like obscene messages and phone numbers you shouldn't trust. Speak in extremes, it will save you time.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 14, 2013 23:44:33 GMT
From TUFFF... And other Morrissey lyrics.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 14, 2013 23:48:57 GMT
From TUFFF... This bothered me to no end for years to come, and seeing as how my parents were against buying stuff over the internet, I had to wait for 6 years before I could finally order an English copy from eBay.
I'll tell you, it felt very surreal to finally get my hands on something I had been wanting for so long. I can beat that. For some reason I never got the 25 May 1981 issue of Scoop (a sports magazine/comic) and it meant I missed the final episode of the story "The Game", about an overlord who used football to control the minds of the people. I finally got it via eBay in May 2006...just over 25 years to the day later. The relief was palpable. and the final battle.... a 7 / 7 opponent, whom you might as well take out with a HOT or ZAP?
Come on Steve, you can do better, you proved that back in Citadel of Chaos. That's not a worthy ending to an epic story of this calibre. Ah, but if you DON'T have the 4 ST for HOT or ZAP you've got to be flawless with the sword. The point is that it's materializing before your eyes, and if you don't vamoose it sharpish you're dead meat. And it makes sense - you think you've won, and then...
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 14, 2013 23:52:10 GMT
From TUFFF... Well last night I completed my first-time trek through the Sorcery! series by recapturing the Crown of Kings. To start with the approach to Mampang through the Xaqmen peaks is superbly done. Nice use of illustrations as well showing teaser views of the distant fortress. The cave encounter at the start really messes with your mind as each one you peep inside contains potential danger. I found the dead She-Satyr really unnerving. And hooray for the Jib Jib! I also liked the side trip to visit the She Satyrs village. As to Mampang it was reasonably well done. The bit about dissident birdmen infiltrating the fortress was a nice touch. And I loved John Blanche's toilet full of graffiti! But I couldn't help feel there were too many spoilers in the previous book, meaning the clues collected from the Seven Serpents. Often this did dampen the suspense or deny the challenge of solving a puzzle yourself. Also through the series I felt the magic system to be somewhat more cumbersome and unwieldy than it needed to be. Often the spell choices available for an encounter seem quite arbitrary, and at the same time you have a lot of spells in the book that achieve more or less the same thing plus spells that will hardly get used if ever used at all. As to the final section I loved the time-travel twist at the end. But the final showdown with the arch-mage was something of a damp squib. This is the point where he could explain his plan for world-domination using the Crown to unite the unruly tribes of Khakabad and then conquer Analand. By the same token I was anticipating some kind of magical duel, as it is he goes down too easily. Overall I can't fault the ambition of the book. A good effort that just needed a slightly better ending. My FF reviews: z3.invisionfree.com/Orc__Goblin_Warpath/index.php?showtopic=29374
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 14, 2013 23:53:16 GMT
From TUFFF... Played this for the first time today. Is it just that I haven't found the correct way through yet...or is it utterly impossible to reach the fortress if playing as a warrior? All the avenues I explored led to my sudden death.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 14, 2013 23:54:27 GMT
From TUFFF... You can reach the fortress as a warrior. And go on to win the book, provided you acquired a certain item beforehand (and manage not to make any fatal decisions inside the fortress). Mind you, I don't think it's achievable without learning how to meet a certain character (I don't know how spoiler-averse you are - feel free to ask for more specific information if you want it), but that's an encounter worth having even if you are a wizard. Indeed, unless you're playing TCoK as the continuation of an adventure in which none of the Seven Serpents reached Mampang, it's an essential encounter regardless of your character type.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 14, 2013 23:55:43 GMT
From TUFFF... Mind you, I don't think it's achievable without learning how to meet a certain character (I don't know how spoiler-averse you are - feel free to ask for more specific information if you want it), but that's an encounter worth having even if you are a wizard. Indeed, unless you're playing TCoK as the continuation of an adventure in which none of the Seven Serpents reached Mampang, it's an essential encounter regardless of your character type. I don't mind spoilers to help me out with this, so please provide all the information you feel would be helpful. Thanks.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 14, 2013 23:57:58 GMT
From TUFFF... This is just off the top of my head so one or two minor details are likely missing. S
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At the start, go into the cave with the footprints and see the dead body. Do not stay here though. Instead spend the night in the small cave. When you get to a choice of 2 trails, take the one that goes uphill to the right. Tell the she-satyrs about the body you found and they will tell you about Colletus the holy man and how to summon him. When you are offered a chance to stop and eat it, take it (even if your Stamina is maximum) and you'll see an inscription telling you where Colletus is. When you get to that place, summon him and he'll show you how to get to the fortress safely.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 14, 2013 23:59:35 GMT
From TUFFF... That's pretty much it, Kieran. A couple of additions, though:
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You should accompany the She-Satyrs back to their village. A warrior cannot succeed without the bottle from their leader. When you meet Colletus, call on his services as a holy man. If you don't get him to bless the spear the She-Satyrs gave you, you cannot succeed unless the Seven Serpents all failed in their mission.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 15, 2013 0:00:28 GMT
From TUFFF... Thanks very much.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 15, 2013 0:01:55 GMT
From TUFFF... Has anyone else noticed there is a way to reach the fortress without meeting Colletus and crossing the secret bridge? I played this for years on and off thinking the only way to get to Mampang was to take the route where you meet Colletus. However recently I tried the other way where you nearly get trapped in a landslide (ref 551.) By chance I used the WAL spell and made it past the rocks safely to get to the keep! Of course it's much tougher to get through the courtyard area without having the spear blessed by Colletus, but its great to still be able to find secret routes after all this time.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 15, 2013 0:04:12 GMT
From TUFFF... I had no idea until Marsten went that way in his playthrough of TCoK. One of the fun things about gamebooks is that you can still discover new aspects to some of them even after multiple readings.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 15, 2013 0:05:45 GMT
From TUFFF... I bought them 1983-1985 when I was into them. They remain something special. The paper in my Hills is now like parchment but 2-4 are still in good shape though the paper is now a bit brown at the edges. The wizard option is truly great fun. The warrior option is a waste of time? Even now the truly vast number of paths you can take, especially with the spell options, mean I am still changing my mind as to the best route all these years later. I have just changed my mind as to the best route in Khare. Is there anyone with a suitably fastidious mind who has something like a perfect solution to the entire Sorcery saga? There are some obvious constraints, especially 2-4, that limit the route that can be taken. I am still not sure of some of the options even now. Is it best to use the DUM or WOK spell when defending the beggar in Khare. If DUM works you basically have won but with a luck of only 8 it is a gamble. Maybe someone has covered all the angles but I have not come across it yet. One thing always bugged me about the beginning of Kings. Is it ok just to look at the dead body so you know it is there or do you have to spend the night in the cave and catch the disease? The text is not clear on this? I think when you make the information known the text says something like you recall the creature from when you spent the night in the cave seemingly implying you have to spend the night in the cave and catch the disease but the whole thing is vague.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 15, 2013 0:07:04 GMT
From TUFFF... Has anyone else noticed there is a way to reach the fortress without meeting Colletus and crossing the secret bridge?
I played this for years on and off thinking the only way to get to Mampang was to take the route where you meet Colletus. However recently I tried the other way where you nearly get trapped in a landslide (ref 551.) By chance I used the WAL spell and made it past the rocks safely to get to the keep!
Of course it's much tougher to get through the courtyard area without having the spear blessed by Colletus, but its great to still be able to find secret routes after all this time. Yes, I discovered this some time ago. However, it will lead to ultimate failure unless you defeated all 7 serpents and even if you have it's probably better to go the Colletus route. Having said that, if you're unlucky enough to get to the start of Crown of Kings with no provisions (which has happened to me more than once), it's technically impossible to meet Colletus so it does provide a helpful alternative route in that case.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 15, 2013 0:08:55 GMT
From TUFFF... One thing always bugged me about the beginning of Kings. Is it ok just to look at the dead body so you know it is there or do you have to spend the night in the cave and catch the disease? The text is not clear on this? I think when you make the information known the text says something like you recall the creature from when you spent the night in the cave seemingly implying you have to spend the night in the cave and catch the disease but the whole thing is vague. I don't have the book to hand, but I think it does ask you if you have the disease after checking if you recognise the she-satyrs- which it wouldn't have to do if you have to spend the night in the cave.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 15, 2013 0:09:46 GMT
From TUFFF... Interesting. I do not have an eidetic recall of Kings but your suggestion makes sense. The shaking disease is so debilitating I feel it is best avoided but even back in 1985 I was a bit baffled as to what you are being committed to. It certainly makes it a lot easier just to be aware of the dead body and the text does not debar you from looking in one cave and then spending the night in the safe cave. The other obvious example has to be the well known House Of Hell conclusion. The meaning must be a +6 addition to attack strength not skill otherwise it is virtually impossible to beat the final creature even with a skill of 12 and a high stamina.
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Post by a moderator on May 24, 2014 11:12:28 GMT
My playthrough from the lost forum, restored from a back-up I found:
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Post by marekv on Jan 19, 2016 19:54:02 GMT
I dont know if someone mentioned it already here but cant kill pixie Ian with your uber teleportation spell. If you cast it sucesfuly you transport to your yongster self and kill Archmage before he can send you to prison where you can kill Ian with this spell.
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Post by deadshadowrunner on Jan 20, 2016 1:46:22 GMT
I dont know if someone mentioned it already here but cant kill pixie Ian with your uber teleportation spell. If you cast it sucesfuly you transport to your yongster self and kill Archmage before he can send you to prison where you can kill Ian with this spell. I don't get it.
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Post by marekv on Jan 20, 2016 6:27:30 GMT
My bad. You can think about it also like that reality when you kill Iann with teleportation spell doesnt exist because you send your memory from that reality to the past self (with the information who is archmage) and you can kill archmage before he can send you to the prison tower and so on. You never really meet Iann wrom the first book, so you cannt kill him. It is a very difficult.
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Post by deadshadowrunner on Jan 20, 2016 11:35:43 GMT
Who is lann? You mean Jann?
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Post by hynreck on Jan 20, 2016 13:22:21 GMT
I hope it's not vagsancho 2.0...
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Post by marekv on Jan 20, 2016 13:44:57 GMT
Yeah Jann.
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Post by marekv on Jan 20, 2016 13:46:29 GMT
That small magic blocking, flying thing.
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Post by Pete Byrdie on Jan 20, 2016 14:00:30 GMT
Jann the minimite. I've just finished The Shamutanti Hills app. I'd forgotten about this little goit's magic blocking, and wasted a couple of spells before remembering. If I remember correctly, in The Crown of Kings you use the ZED spell to teleport somewhere, killing Jann in the process. Presumably you're saying that, since you're teleported back through time as well as space, the act of using the spell and killing Jann becomes part of a redundant timeline, so in effect it didn't happen.
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Post by deadshadowrunner on Jan 20, 2016 14:14:37 GMT
Okay thanks for clearing that up Pete Byrdie I finally understand now. hynreck:Let's hope not...
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