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Post by tyrion on Jul 23, 2020 14:57:11 GMT
Last round daggers of darkness was eliminated. Two votes again this round, with two most votes for being eliminated. You can vote for one of you want, you don't have to use both votes.
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Post by vastariner on Jul 23, 2020 15:23:01 GMT
Getting to the tight end now.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,451
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Jul 23, 2020 16:13:44 GMT
Slaves again for me.
I also voted for Dead of Night. Very subjective because I can't really fault it, it's well designed and well written with some great encounters but for some reason it never really grabs me.
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Post by stevendoig on Jul 23, 2020 16:26:20 GMT
Stealer of Souls - the rest are brilliant!!
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Jul 23, 2020 17:29:42 GMT
Appointment with fear, freewayfighter, and Vault of the Vampire. These 3 books had everything to go wrong - based in "cliches" very, very used ideas... The first one, garbage to me, the second, not bad.. But the third... Oh the third... Vault of the Vampire made the surprising and very difficult job of being a fantastic book. Flawless.
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Post by peasantscribbler on Jul 23, 2020 22:29:38 GMT
I was wracking my brain whether to vote for Stealer of Souls or Portal of Evil. You have given me the perfect solution to my dilemma.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,451
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Jul 24, 2020 7:07:56 GMT
Not looking good for Portal of Evil. It's one of my favourites for the whole series - starting to think my tastes are a bit unconventional amongst fans!
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Post by tyrion on Jul 24, 2020 7:29:50 GMT
Not looking good for Portal of Evil. It's one of my favourites for the whole series - starting to think my tastes are a bit unconventional amongst fans! There's nothing wrong with portal of evil, but there's nothing wrong with stealer of souls either. Just a bit too conventional against very stiff competition.
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Jul 24, 2020 11:20:58 GMT
Not looking good for Portal of Evil. It's one of my favourites for the whole series - starting to think my tastes are a bit unconventional amongst fans! There's nothing wrong with portal of evil, but there's nothing wrong with stealer of souls either. Just a bit too conventional against very stiff competition. Personally, i think stealer of souls is a pretty weak book.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,678
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Jul 24, 2020 14:00:04 GMT
Stealer of Souls is a great book with very balanced gameplay, good atmosphere and good pacing. Unfortunately the overall plot isn't anything special.
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Post by The Count on Jul 25, 2020 2:59:01 GMT
I am shocked and appalled at how many votes the excellent Vault of the Vampire has received - especially when noone has given a reason for doing so.
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Post by The Count on Jul 25, 2020 3:06:27 GMT
I also voted for Dead of Night. Very subjective because I can't really fault it, it's well designed and well written with some great encounters but for some reason it never really grabs me. I really dislike the end game which is why it got my second vote (the first was for Portal again) - and while the story is well written and very atmospheric, the actual gameplay is poorly constructed in comparison to the rest.
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Jul 25, 2020 9:04:07 GMT
Slaves again for me. I also voted for Dead of Night. Very subjective because I can't really fault it, it's well designed and well written with some great encounters but for some reason it never really grabs me. I miss Dead of Night.
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Post by vastariner on Jul 25, 2020 11:19:52 GMT
I am shocked and appalled at how many votes the excellent Vault of the Vampire has received - especially when noone has given a reason for doing so. Simple reason. It's my fourth favourite of these. SotA may be my favourite of the entire FF run, PoE is an intriguing one that sends you up various very different alleyways, and DoN is a more imaginative Hammer Horror take than VotV, which is basically Dracula with a family element.
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Post by Wilf on Jul 25, 2020 11:31:00 GMT
As I type, two books are in joint second place. Does that mean three books get eliminated?
I will certainly be happy to see the back of the single most overrated FF title of all, the derivative, tedious, hub-based Vault Of The Vampire.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,451
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Jul 25, 2020 11:50:10 GMT
VotV, which is basically Dracula with a family element. I smell a sitcom!
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Post by peasantscribbler on Jul 26, 2020 20:34:00 GMT
I also voted for Dead of Night. Very subjective because I can't really fault it, it's well designed and well written with some great encounters but for some reason it never really grabs me. I really dislike the end game which is why it got my second vote (the first was for Portal again) - and while the story is well written and very atmospheric, the actual gameplay is poorly constructed in comparison to the rest. I’ve done a replay of Dead of Night over the last few days, and I’ve discovered (to my chagrin) that you’re absolutely right about this. There are some seemingly sloppy ambiguities in the gameplay, and some of these really mar the endgame. I think that the battle against Myurr might be an all-time classic if combat was a viable option. Combat might be viable if the Demon-Slaying sword unambiguously added 4 to your attack strength against demons. Instead it will “increase your SKILL score by 4 points, even if that takes your SKILL to over 12”. This will work fine if you substitute “above your initial level” for “to over 12”, but you really shouldn’t be able to use this bonus as it is written. Neither can you use the skill bonus for the potion of heroism unless you use a house rule to convert it to an attack strength bonus. I don’t usually change skill bonuses to attack strength bonuses, but I’m really tempted to in this case because I’d love to take this guy down with the sword. Yes, he wants to destroy the world. Yes, he kidnapped my parents. But come on, he’s really going to stand in front of me and suggest that he lured me to his tower and allowed me to defeat his minions along the way all as a part of his master plan? Oh no, my friend, that won’t stand.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,678
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Jul 26, 2020 20:52:32 GMT
The Skill bonus would increase your current Skill by 4 points even if it takes your Skill over 12. This is a specific instruction in the text which would allow you to break the Initial limit rule as far as I understand. The Potion of Heroism does not allow this bonus because it is not mentioned in the text. The same issue was featured much earlier in the series with House of Hell, which according to your outlook would make a terrible book because of the ambiguity (which, of course, it isn't).
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Post by peasantscribbler on Jul 26, 2020 22:14:04 GMT
I don't mean to say that the ambiguity makes Dead of Night terrible (it doesn't), just that it lowers my esteem for the book a bit. I'm still not voting for it.
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Post by The Count on Jul 27, 2020 0:36:38 GMT
The Skill bonus would increase your current Skill by 4 points even if it takes your Skill over 12. This is a specific instruction in the text which would allow you to break the Initial limit rule as far as I understand. The Potion of Heroism does not allow this bonus because it is not mentioned in the text. The same issue was featured much earlier in the series with House of Hell, which according to your outlook would make a terrible book because of the ambiguity (which, of course, it isn't). House of Hell is similarly ruined by the sloppy endgame (and the Fear rules) - though is a better book than Dead of Night, which 30 books later should really have tight gameplay rules. Neither is terrible, just not as good as they should be - so when compared to other books in the series, the sloppy endgame is going to have a negative impact on some opinions. Similarly, Revenge of the Vampire has errors that makes it almost unplayable which will likely see it being voted out before the utterly broken trio of Spellbreaker, Knights of Doom and Curse of the Mummy despite them being inferior books.
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Post by vastariner on Jul 27, 2020 7:53:30 GMT
I think that the battle against Myurr might be an all-time classic if combat was a viable option. Combat might be viable if the Demon-Slaying sword unambiguously added 4 to your attack strength against demons. Instead it will “increase your SKILL score by 4 points, even if that takes your SKILL to over 12”. This will work fine if you substitute “above your initial level” for “to over 12”, but you really shouldn’t be able to use this bonus as it is written. I think it's unambiguous that you CAN go over your initial skill. After all, you can't have an initial skill of 13 or more.
(Maybe it is also a sneaky nod that nobody really starts an adventure with Sk7/8...)
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,678
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Jul 27, 2020 13:50:59 GMT
Why not? More than a third of the series can be completed with Skill 7-8. Dead of Night being one of them.
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Post by bloodbeasthandler on Jul 27, 2020 18:14:55 GMT
I've said it before. The SKILL bonuses given by items throughout these books, like the Kris Knife, like the sword spoken about above, like magic shields, like suits of armour... they are all there to boost your ability in combat. The rules at the start of the books with regard to this? I just ignore them and apply common sense, and so should you. If you like, consider it an error by publishers too idle to check the playability of their books and/or are just copying and pasting stuff from one book to the next. Or an error by the author to correctly word what he (or she, soon ) clearly intended. Hands up here who when playing The Talisman of Death believe that YOU with The Holy Sword [para 193], with magical chainmail [para 117] with the magical Dragonsbane spear [para 371] (as long as you dont combine it with the Sword), with a magical helmet bestowing quickness of thought [para 165], the Jade Ring etc ... are no better off in a fight than YOU in a set of leather armour and a standard sword? Anyone? How else do you think you are meant to defeat the SKILL 12 Red Dragon if you roll relatively low initial SKILL? I'm giving Jamie Thomson some credit here and assuming he knew that an average SKILL 9 or 10 player needed some boosts. Don't let an adherence to those erroneous rules ruin your enjoyment of the books. You are only hurting yourselves.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,678
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Jul 27, 2020 19:41:42 GMT
You ignore the stated rules to further your enjoyment of the books. That's fine, but is regarded by others as cheating. I don't enjoy the books any less by playing by the rules. Sure, use common sense where applicable. But most of the time, if I applied every item/weapon bonus to Attack Strength instead, a good majority of the books would become super easy. How would people react to Deathtrap Dungeon if you could complete it with a Skill of 9? The book gains a bit of balance in gameplay but loses its infamous lethality. It's a tough call for a rule that has been around since the beginning, and who are we to say whether it was author intended just because it suits us? With regards to Attack Strength bonuses, I have only ever applied them through magical weapons as certain books would not be possible to beat without it. The Kris Knife, Venom Sword, and sword of Demon-Slaying being some prime examples. They are very specific bonuses against very specific enemies. I do not take the same bonuses from items as these do not give specific instructions that I can do so.
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Post by bloodbeasthandler on Jul 27, 2020 20:45:10 GMT
The ridiculous ambiguity has been there more or less from the start.
Citadel of Chaos. Ransacking Balthus Dire's weapons cupboard gives you a magic sword (+2 Attack Strength) [para 353] Fiddling with a pocket myriad results in you having a 'sun sword' (description similar to a light sabre maybe) which will 'add 4 points to your SKILL when you fight with it'. [para 315]
I doubt the authors themselves know what they are on about half the time, so i suppose I feel entitled to make sense of it all myself.
This would be all easily rectified if the publisher were to take the time to actually read and play through the books, or drop a line to the author and see what was intended...
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,678
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Jul 27, 2020 21:58:30 GMT
I doubt the authors themselves know what they are on about half the time, so i suppose I feel entitled to make sense of it all myself. This would be all easily rectified if the publisher were to take the time to actually read and play through the books, or drop a line to the author and see what was intended... Yeah...well, nothing to stop one from hoping one day...
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Post by peasantscribbler on Jul 29, 2020 0:25:06 GMT
I think that the battle against Myurr might be an all-time classic if combat was a viable option. Combat might be viable if the Demon-Slaying sword unambiguously added 4 to your attack strength against demons. Instead it will “increase your SKILL score by 4 points, even if that takes your SKILL to over 12”. This will work fine if you substitute “above your initial level” for “to over 12”, but you really shouldn’t be able to use this bonus as it is written. I think it's unambiguous that you CAN go over your initial skill. After all, you can't have an initial skill of 13 or more.
(Maybe it is also a sneaky nod that nobody really starts an adventure with Sk7/8...)
You can have an initial skill of 13 in Dead of Night if you start with 12 because success in one of your sub-missions explicitly adds one point to your initial skill.
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