sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,677
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on May 17, 2018 19:04:56 GMT
Howl of the Werewolf - Great hammer-esque story, good gameplay tarnished slightly with the pointless Change stat. Night of the Necromancer - Good story, good gameplay and atmosphere. Stormslayer - Meh story, great gameplay, and many easter eggs for true FF fans. Bloodbones - Good story, tough gameplay. The imaginative encounters make this book above average. The Port of Peril - fun but meh story, good gameplay from Ian for a change. Aimed for younger readers mostly. Blood of the Zombies - Good story, impossible gameplay. Not enough variation in opponents either. Gates of Death - okay story made difficult to read due to its childish nature, gameplay is far too easy. FF presented but without its heart and tarnishes the world of Titan TBH. Eye of the Dragon - zero story, near impossible gameplay. One of the worst but saved by awesome illustrations that will ironically be its downfall in the new series if re-released.
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Post by hynreck on May 17, 2018 19:19:05 GMT
You are so right, sylas, when you say that Eye of the Dragon will loose it's only good thing when they inevitably replace the old illustrations... sigh. One more reason not to upgrade (more like downgrade)!
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Post by daredevil123 on May 17, 2018 19:28:03 GMT
You are so right, sylas, when you say that Eye of the Dragon will loose it's only good thing when they inevitably replace the old illustrations... sigh. One more reason not to upgrade (more like downgrade)! I admit BotZ has incredible illustrations. If Scholastic reissue BotZ it will probably be the worst thing ever to come out of Fighting Fantasy...
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,677
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on May 17, 2018 20:08:49 GMT
You are so right, sylas, when you say that Eye of the Dragon will loose it's only good thing when they inevitably replace the old illustrations... sigh. One more reason not to upgrade (more like downgrade)! I admit BotZ has incredible illustrations. If Scholastic reissue BotZ it will probably be the worst thing ever to come out of Fighting Fantasy... BOTZ is a gamebook branded with the FF label but it's nothing to do with FF. Having said that, the story is far from bad and has good atmosphere, pacing, so it's decent enough even without the illustrations.
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Post by lordomnibok on May 17, 2018 21:28:10 GMT
If ranking these purely on how much pleasure i got from them and nothing else, BotZ hits the bottom of my list by a long way. Nothing comes close... I'm currently struggling to stick with Gates of Death, but I'll see how it goes. Racing towards the top would be Howl of the Werewolf or Necromancer. Okay here's my dark secret. I hope that I don't get too much stick for this but Eye of the Dragon would fair decently on my list despite being ludicrous. It made me laugh when it didn't mean too. The plot was a scribble and many encounters were absurd. But I did actually enjoy playing it and i got through it via the rules after a few attempts despite two overpowered enemies. I'd probably liken it to watching an 80's B movie that i knew i shouldn't like, but couldn't help but enjoy. Artwork really helped it. Now that I've confessed, i feel like i should build a wicker man and put myself in it.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,677
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on May 17, 2018 23:41:31 GMT
Once you start playing BOTZ, you immediately start hating it which is the main problem. BOTZ is much better when read through only and not played through. The sad thing is, if Ian stuck with the basic formula of including Skill, Luck, and zero zombie tallying instead of trying something radically different and untested, it could have been a really good book.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,437
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on May 18, 2018 6:27:38 GMT
I hope that I don't get too much stick for this but Eye of the Dragon would fair decently on my list despite being ludicrous. It made me laugh when it didn't mean too. The plot was a scribble and many encounters were absurd. But I did actually enjoy playing it and i got through it via the rules after a few attempts despite two overpowered enemies. I'd probably liken it to watching an 80's B movie that i knew i shouldn't like, but couldn't help but enjoy. Artwork really helped it. Now that I've confessed, i feel like i should build a wicker man and put myself in it. Wow I'm not the only defender of Eye of the Dragon anymore!
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Post by hynreck on May 18, 2018 12:29:38 GMT
There's nothing wrong with liking a bit of cheese, lordomnibok! I am too guilty of loving stuff that would make the majority shake their heads in disbelief.
I found Eye of the Dragon to be, overall, a pain, but perhaps it has more to do with my strong reactions toward the decline of Livingstone as an FF author: he was responsible for so much greatness after all, genuine classics like City of Thieves or Deathtrap Dungeon, and lots of other fun stories, to... that.
Taken on it's own, EotD might have make me laugh just like you and I would have enjoyed it a lot more, just like I laugh every step of the way while going through Sky Lord!
Who knows, one day maybe I'll replay it and, viewing it as a farce, will laugh too. The premise is certainly one of the most ridiculous one ever. And hey, it gave great blog post to just about every FF blogger out there!
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Post by thealmightymudworm on May 20, 2018 2:26:20 GMT
I haven't read The Gates of Death yet, I just bought it from some seller on the marketplace; amazon.ca for some reason don't sell the new books. So otherwise, let's try this since it's a rather small list (can't help but imagining the brain melt if you try to do the whole series this way!):(this is my best to worst from gut and bad memory; I've only played each book once and I suppose further playthrough might shift the books around... /disclaimer) Howl of the Werewolf Night of the Necromancer Stormslayer Bloodbones The Port of Peril Blood of the Zombies Eye of the Dragon We'll see where GoD slides in eventually... Slightly off topic, but there is a forum for the UK version of Big Brother where a ranking poll was started in 2003 to compare housemates from all the non-celebrity series. There were around 50 at the time... It's still running. Last year there were 313 housemates to put in order and around 30 people submitted full lists. One guy counts them up. He politely refuses help.
I don't actually own any of the books I've listed apart from Port of Peril, which I thought was generally decent. Not very sophisticated of course, but it wouldn't be a bad introduction to the series for a newbie unlike many others. Howl I played a bit on a dodgy pdf – enough to think it was really good. I'm intending to get Gates shortly – with suitably lowered expectations. At some point – possibly over the summer – I want to give these books, some of which were released when I had no idea FF books had been resurrected, a good go. I don't think I'll bother with BotZ though. I've heard enough about that to know it would just infuriate me.
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Post by philsadler on May 20, 2018 6:20:09 GMT
Once you start playing BOTZ, you immediately start hating it which is the main problem. BOTZ is much better when read through only and not played through. The sad thing is, if Ian stuck with the basic formula of including Skill, Luck, and zero zombie tallying instead of trying something radically different and untested, it could have been a really good book. I'm still amazed that he managed to dumb down the 3-attribute system to only 1. I'm also amazed that he had about 1 type of enemy in the entire book. What about zombie dogs/mutants/giants/ghouls? Oh and what's with the completely untested stamina system where the book is literally impossible to beat? I think you'd have to triple the stamina to even stand a ghost of a chance. Pathetic. But because this is IL people are always willing to forgive him.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,437
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on May 20, 2018 7:12:05 GMT
So otherwise, let's try this since it's a rather small list (can't help but imagining the brain melt if you try to do the whole series this way!): I did this on the old forum (all the books up to and including Night of the Necromancer). Can't really remember my rankings anymore and I would probably disagree with them now anyway. Crown of Kings was number 1 and I think Chasms of Malice was bottom but the middle is a blur to me.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,677
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on May 20, 2018 11:25:58 GMT
Once you start playing BOTZ, you immediately start hating it which is the main problem. BOTZ is much better when read through only and not played through. The sad thing is, if Ian stuck with the basic formula of including Skill, Luck, and zero zombie tallying instead of trying something radically different and untested, it could have been a really good book. I'm still amazed that he managed to dumb down the 3-attribute system to only 1. I'm also amazed that he had about 1 type of enemy in the entire book. What about zombie dogs/mutants/giants/ghouls? Oh and what's with the completely untested stamina system where the book is literally impossible to beat? I think you'd have to triple the stamina to even stand a ghost of a chance. Pathetic. But because this is IL people are always willing to forgive him. The system needed to have the 3 main attributes to resemble anything like FF. I don't agree with using just one attribute obviously, unless it was presented in a more Choose Your Own Adventure format where it would have worked. I don't think anyone is forgiving this because it's IL. I'm simply stating that the book is pretty decent storywise if you don't roll dice and skip the zombie tallying. It's the same approach I have with Black Vein Prophecy. Having to fail that Luck test makes the book almost unplayable for me, but going by the story alone it's one of my favourites.
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Post by a moderator on May 20, 2018 11:53:50 GMT
I'm also amazed that he had about 1 type of enemy in the entire book. Two - there are some rats as well. But that's still a pretty poor selection.
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Post by hynreck on May 22, 2018 12:51:23 GMT
Would the DK zombie count as one type? A mini-boss? He was a major roadblock if I remember correctly.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,437
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on May 22, 2018 15:16:30 GMT
Would the DK zombie count as one type? A mini-boss? He was a major roadblock if I remember correctly. Not so much a roadblock as a point where any hitherto honest players were forced to finally resort to cheating.
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Post by Wilf on May 23, 2018 6:49:07 GMT
It's the same approach I have with Black Vein Prophecy. Having to fail that Luck test makes the book almost unplayable for me, but going by the story alone it's one of my favourites. Going off on a tangent... The Luck Test might be forgivable if you rolled your stats before you started playing. As it stands, determining your Luck score in the text, right before you need to Test it, means your Luck will always be at its Initial Level when you roll against it, which is extremely unfair. But the loop mechanism in that book, where it's possible to start again from 1, means you might have had another shot at acquiring the scales if you were down on your Luck at the end... but only if you could use the stats you had at the point you restarted. It could have been made forgivable.
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Post by lordomnibok on May 23, 2018 12:24:23 GMT
Would the DK zombie count as one type? A mini-boss? He was a major roadblock if I remember correctly. I would count it as one type. I was pleased by the fact that it was a bit different, but I also recall thinking that it was impossible to defeat without cheating. Although I think I'd already hit that realisation ages before.
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Post by philsadler on May 24, 2018 5:21:43 GMT
It's the same approach I have with Black Vein Prophecy. Having to fail that Luck test makes the book almost unplayable for me, but going by the story alone it's one of my favourites. Going off on a tangent... The Luck Test might be forgivable if you rolled your stats before you started playing. As it stands, determining your Luck score in the text, right before you need to Test it, means your Luck will always be at its Initial Level when you roll against it,
My God. I'd heard about the whole 'need to fail a Luck test to gain an item thing in BVP' (which doesn't sound very 'Lucky' to me). I had no idea that your luck had to be at initial level for that moment though! If it were later on you could at least deliberately 'lose' a few luck points in easy fights and so on, but man oh man....
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Post by hynreck on May 24, 2018 12:31:13 GMT
Would the DK zombie count as one type? A mini-boss? He was a major roadblock if I remember correctly. Not so much a roadblock as a point where any hitherto honest players were forced to finally resort to cheating. Lordomnibok said: I would count it as one type. I was pleased by the fact that it was a bit different, but I also recall thinking that it was impossible to defeat without cheating. Although I think I'd already hit that realisation ages before.
Don't know how to do double quote, sorry...
But yeah, I'm probably sure that I was cheating before that. I would have to look at my old review and try to recall how I cheated as I tend to adapt to each situation differently. But I suspect this type of info is long gone. In any case, DK probably only cemented that need to cheat, it was an impossible fight.
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Post by johnbrawn1972 on May 24, 2018 12:57:40 GMT
I'm still amazed that he managed to dumb down the 3-attribute system to only 1. I'm also amazed that he had about 1 type of enemy in the entire book. What about zombie dogs/mutants/giants/ghouls? Oh and what's with the completely untested stamina system where the book is literally impossible to beat? I think you'd have to triple the stamina to even stand a ghost of a chance. Pathetic. But because this is IL people are always willing to forgive him. The system needed to have the 3 main attributes to resemble anything like FF. I don't agree with using just one attribute obviously, unless it was presented in a more Choose Your Own Adventure format where it would have worked. I don't think anyone is forgiving this because it's IL. I'm simply stating that the book is pretty decent storywise if you don't roll dice and skip the zombie tallying. It's the same approach I have with Black Vein Prophecy. Having to fail that Luck test makes the book almost unplayable for me, but going by the story alone it's one of my favourites. Is it alright with 12/24/7?
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Post by a moderator on May 24, 2018 21:47:50 GMT
Skill in BVP is 1d6+4, so it'd have to be 10/24/7.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,677
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on May 24, 2018 21:58:38 GMT
1d6+4 for Skill as is the way of spellcasters.
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Post by johnbrawn1972 on May 24, 2018 22:08:58 GMT
1d6+4 for Skill as is the way of spellcasters. This beggars the question is it plausible to play with 10/24/7?
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,677
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on May 25, 2018 16:12:46 GMT
1d6+4 for Skill as is the way of spellcasters. This beggars the question is it plausible to play with 10/24/7? For BVP or spellcasters in general? Well in BVP, all you have to really 'succeed' in is failing the first Luck Test. With a Luck of 7 there's still a chance I just don't like how it's presented. The rest of the book isn't that tough on battles. The difficulty is in finding the right path. For all spellcasters, a -2 in overall Skill tends to be a tiny disadvantage since Magic is so fun and versatile and in many cases lifesaving in ways that a high Skill cannot accomplish. So I suppose for either question, answer is YES.
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Post by johnbrawn1972 on May 25, 2018 18:26:09 GMT
This beggars the question is it plausible to play with 10/24/7? For BVP or spellcasters in general? Well in BVP, all you have to really 'succeed' in is failing the first Luck Test. With a Luck of 7 there's still a chance I just don't like how it's presented. The rest of the book isn't that tough on battles. The difficulty is in finding the right path. For all spellcasters, a -2 in overall Skill tends to be a tiny disadvantage since Magic is so fun and versatile and in many cases lifesaving in ways that a high Skill cannot accomplish. So I suppose for either question, answer is YES. I have just had a bottle of wine but hang on if a roll of 7 is about 58% then the roll needed for BVP is about 42% so it is not totally ridiculous. My question was for BVP(and I hope it is released again)so 10/24/7 seems plausible. Was there ever a reason given why they did this bizarre calumny? To weed out the cheaters? There must be a better way. Turn to number on key and so on?
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Post by a moderator on May 25, 2018 18:49:32 GMT
Calumny? I'm not sure what's libellous about making it necessary to fail a roll...
I have a vague recollection of Paul Mason saying the idea was to indicate that what seems like bad fortune sometimes ultimately proves to be a good thing. Interesting idea, but not implemented very well.
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Post by johnbrawn1972 on May 25, 2018 20:08:42 GMT
Calumny? I'm not sure what's libellous about making it necessary to fail a roll... I have a vague recollection of Paul Mason saying the idea was to indicate that what seems like bad fortune sometimes ultimately proves to be a good thing. Interesting idea, but not implemented very well. He should be hung, drawn and quartered for such an egregious offence against the very idea of what luck means namely an uncalled for and unwarranted right to the riches fate or necessity has deemed you are entitled to. There is nothing more offensive than the idea the fortunate should doubt the right to happiness in this fashion.
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Post by philsadler on May 26, 2018 5:30:57 GMT
I think being 'hung, drawn and quartered' is going a bit far. A firing squad will suffice.
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Post by Wilf on May 27, 2018 11:41:19 GMT
As another aside, the only time I've ever played BVP by the rules (for my playthroughs on the long-since-deleted Unofficial Forum), I rolled an Initial Luck of 10, and then failed that first test by rolling an 11...
I think this makes me Lucky at being luckily Unlucky.
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Post by Egg Magic on Sept 5, 2018 14:42:57 GMT
Hi all,
I was wondering which Puffin books (non-reprint) people thought were the most impressive / enjoyable and worth owning?
Based on overall quality of story, replayability, re-readability and value for money, what titles would you recommend?
I already own the Wizard / Scholastic books and was looking to branch out and play some of the older adventures!
Thanks very much!
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