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Post by johnbrawn1972 on Sept 5, 2018 15:17:40 GMT
Demons of the Deep, Robot Commando, Beneath Nightmare Castle, Slaves of the Abyss, Vault of the Vampire
I have selected these because they are enjoyable and playable while being reasonably common and obtainable.
The regulars will mention some others which are undoubted classics but many are hard to come by or require a weeks wages to buy where the physical product itself may well be of inferior quality(so caveat emptor).
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Post by Egg Magic on Sept 5, 2018 21:11:02 GMT
Thanks for the recommendations johnbrawn. I'm definitely look into 'Demons of the Deep', 'Beneath Nightmare Castle' & 'Slaves of the Abyss'. They sound very interesting.
I was showering the forums, reading around the topic alittle; might pick up 'Black Vein Prophecy' and 'Portal of Evil'. Also I like House of Hell, so maybe 'Dead of Night'?
BVP seems like a must buy. A number of posters praised Mason's writing style; specifically the descriptive detail and his ability to convey atmosphere. Even though its a tad expensive, it sounds like its worth the price.
PoE sounds like a robust adventure with an intriguing concept that is currently very cheap (around £3) and therefore worth it.
Another book that caught my eye was 'Masks of Mayhem'. However, people seem quite spilt on that title. Outside of its difficulty, is it worth reading?
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Post by Egg Magic on Sept 5, 2018 21:17:02 GMT
*scouring, I was scouring the forums*
I guess that's what you get for posting a reply without reading it through...
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,678
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Sept 5, 2018 22:38:33 GMT
Anything by Stephen Hand or Peter-Darvill Evans is fantastic.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Sept 5, 2018 22:47:36 GMT
Thanks for the recommendations johnbrawn. I'm definitely look into 'Demons of the Deep', 'Beneath Nightmare Castle' & 'Slaves of the Abyss'. They sound very interesting. I was showering the forums, reading around the topic alittle; might pick up 'Black Vein Prophecy' and 'Portal of Evil'. Also I like House of Hell, so maybe 'Dead of Night'? BVP seems like a must buy. A number of posters praised Mason's writing style; specifically the descriptive detail and his ability to convey atmosphere. Even though its a tad expensive, it sounds like its worth the price. PoE sounds like a robust adventure with an intriguing concept that is currently very cheap (around £3) and therefore worth it. Another book that caught my eye was 'Masks of Mayhem'. However, people seem quite spilt on that title. Outside of its difficulty, is it worth reading? Definitely get Portal of Evil. That would be one of my first recommendations even if it were more expensive than that. It's quite clever and original as well as being reasonably fair. In general Peter Darvill-Evans's books (Beneath Nightmare Castle, Portal of Evil and Spectral Stalkers) are well-regarded. It's unfortunate that Spectral Stalkers is expensive going by a glance at Amazon. Partly of course this depends what you want. The American Steve Jackson (Scorpion Swamp, Demons of the Deep, Robot Commando) aimed to create fun, fair, highly replay-able books. (Demons of the Deep is a particular favourite of mine as you might guess.) Paul Mason was much more ambitious in writing more high concept stuff. The book of his I know best is The Crimson Tide which is clever but rather infuriating to play. That's not to put you off BVP, just a consideration. Dead of Night is usually well regarded. I don't know it very well. I see The Keep of the Lich Lord is available for under £6 plus delivery on Amazon. Many would say that it's too easy if you don't let yourself be distracted by side-quests, but there's a lot of fun to be had. There's a copy of Master of Chaos for £13 including delivery on Amazon. I'd say that's worth considering. It's a very good book though maybe not a brilliant one. Don't bother with Chasms of Malice. That's cheap for a reason. Edit: If you sign up here then you'll be able to edit your posts.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Sept 5, 2018 22:53:45 GMT
As Sylas says Stephen Hand is good.
I was trying to keep prices available while posting. Moonrunner seems to be on the expensive side otherwise I would certainly recommend that.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,453
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Sept 6, 2018 6:38:59 GMT
Another book that caught my eye was 'Masks of Mayhem'. However, people seem quite spilt on that title. Outside of its difficulty, is it worth reading? Personally I find it rather bland. Coupled with the harsh difficulty, I would hesitate to recommend it. Although all FF books have something going for them imo, and I think all of them have their fans. Here's my opinions on the authors in general: - Steve Jackson (US): really puts an emphasis on the game aspect of gamebooks and his books are fun if lightweight as a result. Demons of the Deep is his most conventional book, Scorpion Swamp his least - Andrew Chapman: again lightweight but generally fun. Would recommend his two sci-fi books over Seas of Blood and Clash of the Princes - Robin Waterfield: in terms of his prose, he's probably the best FF writer when he can be bothered - wonderful poetic sections are mixed with those so terse it feels almost like another writer. His books tend to be a bit too difficult and have some gaping flaws but they're also pretty inventive at times. Phantoms of Fear is probably his most interesting book though not his least flawed by any means. Masks of Mayhem is my least favourite. I have a lot of time for Rebel Planet though it does get more dull and unfair the further you get in it. Deathmoor is probably his best designed book and I really like it though many accuse it of being bland - it's also very rare so probably not high priority to acquire. - Peter Darvill-Evans: You can't go wrong here - great writer, great designer, and his books are all a bit more weird than the average FF - Luke Sharp - avoid his first two books, particularly Chasms of Malice - badly written and hideously unfair. Daggers of Darkness is arguably the most fun book in the series though and while it's maybe a bit too incoherent, Fangs of Fury is pretty likable too. - Graeme Davis - only did one book. Starts well then turns into a dull dungeon crawl - Marc Gascoigne - only did one as well. It has its moments but a bit underwhelming. - Paul Mason/Steve Williams - the most marmite authors. Their books are weird to read and unconventional to play. Slaves of the Abyss is the most conventional but imo too linear to be a classic. Black Vein Prophecy is way too unforgiving but the most intriguing book in the series. Mason's two solo entries are also very unforgiving but incredibly satisfying to crack - Martin Allen - oh God. His books are harsh and Wacky with a capital W. If that doesn't make you run screaming, you may enjoy their sheer randomness - Keith Martin - his books tend to feature a hub-and-spoke design. Explore everywhere around a central area before moving on. It can make them a bit tedious to replay but at least you'll see a lot in one playthrough. The trick to beating his books is working out the order of doing things. He also has more complex rules and combats in most of his books. I like his earlier books best; from Tower of Destruction on his books become just a bit too mechanistic for their own good. - Stephen Hand (and Jim Bambra)- basically wrote Hammer Horror gamebooks and very good at doing so. His books get better as he goes along. Bambra only co-wrote his first - Dave Morris and Jamie Thomson - only wrote one book together. It's well written and has a lot of subquests to check out though it's so easy that they can all feel a bit superfluous. - Keith P. Phillips - only book was Siege of Sardath but this book was excellent. If you like Steve Jackson (UK)'s books, Phillips sticks to his style incredibly closely. - Jonathan Green - only one of his Puffin books hasn't been republished - Knights of Doom. It's way too hard and goes on a bit but has some solid writing and world-building.
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eggmagic
Squire
the Masks of Mayhem will not be released upon the land in my lifetime!
Posts: 7
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by eggmagic on Sept 6, 2018 16:51:01 GMT
You've twisted my arm, thealmightymudworm, I'll join. How can I refuse after that russian nesting doll of an editing joke! Truly next level!
I'm grateful for your recommendations and expertise. Admittedly, I tend to prefer how a FF book reads over how it plays. I can get over gameplay annoyances if the story is enaging and well-realised. I think I'm going to pick up Master of Chaos; having looked around, that seems a fair price. Plus, how can I say no to that cover...
I'll definitely look into Stephen Hand's efforts, starting with Dead of Night. Thank you sylas.
Wow! Cheers kieran. Thanks for putting so much effort into your reply. That's basically an in-depth introduction to FF authors and their respective entries. A lot to mull over. I might print it out! I feel it'll be very useful when making book choices in the future.
I've got a good idea of which titles I'm going to start with. Thanks a bunch for the help everyone. Very much appreicated.
P.S. I like Jonathan Green's work; especially when you don't have to remortgage your house to read it. Where would you rank Knights of Doom amongst his other gamebooks?
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,453
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Sept 6, 2018 18:24:00 GMT
Where would you rank Knights of Doom amongst his other gamebooks? Personally, towards the bottom. It's fairer than Spellbreaker but the setting isn't so fun in my opinion and it's only mildly fairer. It's more interesting than Curse of the Mummy, but I prefer the design of that book. It's definitely not in the same league as Stormslayer or Howl of the Werewolf. It shares a lot of flaws with Bloodbones but I find Bloodbones much more fun. Not a huge fan of Night of the Necromancer but it's definitely more inventive than Knights of Doom. But of course your mileage may vary!
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eggmagic
Squire
the Masks of Mayhem will not be released upon the land in my lifetime!
Posts: 7
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by eggmagic on Sept 6, 2018 23:45:26 GMT
Thanks again for the insight kieran. I'll probably put that title on the back-burner for now.
Lots of other recommendations to keep me occupied anyhow! Time to clear some shelf space...
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Post by jmisbest on Aug 1, 2020 20:37:48 GMT
How about we each list our favorite thing about our top 10 favorite FF Books? and you can include 1's made by fans. Also in a few minutes I'll do a topic about your top 10 least favorite FF Books and why
1st is Appointment With FEAR -set in a version of the modern world that has Super-Powers
2nd is Rings of Kether -Sci-Fii but the main reason is you get to play A Narcotics Cop
3rd is Robot Commando -again Sci-Fii but the main reason is that you get to single-handely save your homeland
4th is Rebel Planet -yet again Sci-Fii but the main reason is that you get to almost single-handely save the human-race
5th is Armies of Death -you command A Army
6th is Legend of Zagor -cos its 1 of only 2 Books in the entire series that I beat on my 1st playthrough without cheating, using a guide or getting advise from someone I knew
7th is Spellbreaker -only 1 were you winning a fight means that you can't win
8th is Forest of Doom -if you fail to get both parts of the hammer you can restart from the beginning, potentially many times
9th is Masks of Mayhem -only 1 were you start out as some-kind of Ruler
10th is Eye of The Dragon -its the only 1 set in Titan were 1 of The Enemies is A Hell-Deamon
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Post by Wilf on Oct 18, 2020 20:30:10 GMT
We've had the Tournament, in which we eliminated our least favourites until we arrived at a winner... but how closely do the results of that match what we really think of the books?
Assuming there's enough interest, here's where we find out:
Please score each gamebook with a whole number (no fractions) from 0 to 10 inclusive, then PM me your ratings.
Please don't post them publicly, lest they should influence others' scores. Please don't rate any gamebook you haven't played. I want to know what YOU think, not what you think the consensus is.
I'll work out the average for each book, and post the final rankings here.
To build up a little tension, I'll ask for ratings in eight groups of 8-10 books, and I'll post a couple of observations about each group when all the scores come in.
I'm thinking of keeping each round open for one week, but starting two rounds each week - one at the weekend and one mid-week - though I'm happy to spread them out or keep the rounds open for longer if enough folk ask.
The first six rounds will comprise of the first 59 Puffin titles, in order. There'll also be a round for the post-Puffin titles from Eye Of The Dragon through Crystal Of Storms, and a round comprising of the Sorcery! series, the Clash Of The Princes books, and the two role-playing guides Fighting Fantasy and The Riddling Reaver.
Will Howl Of The Werewolf take 1st place? Will anyone award any points at all to Sky Lord? Will any authors fare consistently well, or consistently badly? Are the sci-fi books really less popular than the fantasy ones? Which books are the most controversial? YOU decide!
Please PM me your ratings for the following books before midnight on Sunday 25th October:
The Warlock Of Firetop Mountain The Citadel Of Chaos The Forest Of Doom Starship Traveller City Of Thieves Deathtrap Dungeon Island Of The Lizard King Scorpion Swamp Caverns Of The Snow Witch House Of Hell.
No need to justify your ratings to me - just send me the numbers, please. Save your reasons for discussion on this thread... but only after each round closes!
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Post by tyrion on Oct 18, 2020 20:59:24 GMT
First of all, thanks for doing this, it will be interesting!
Secondly, just to clarify, are we giving each book a rating based on the whole series, not just the ten in each round?
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Oct 18, 2020 21:17:15 GMT
Just a suggestion Do not eliminate books by 1-10, 2-20, 3-30, etc... I suppose without that process probably 4 books of the first ten would achieve the top 10.
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Post by philsadler on Oct 18, 2020 21:51:13 GMT
Very interesting! Thanks for doing this. I've just pm'ed you mine and hope they've come through 'cos I've never used the PM service here before.
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Post by Wilf on Oct 18, 2020 22:03:20 GMT
Please score each book out of 10, based on its own merits as you see fit. I've only split this into rounds to stop it being a flash in the pan (and to stop me getting overwhelmed)! I will publish the results as one list of 77 books, with the highest average score at the top, and the lowest at the bottom. No book will be eliminated. This isn't a tournament. I've never used the PM service here before, either, and I'm wondering exactly how quickly my inbox will fill up... assuming I receive your messages in the first place. And assuming anyone actually sends me any!
And thank you to all who play along.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,678
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Oct 18, 2020 22:13:34 GMT
If you get a lot of PM incoming this may turn out to be a huge task for you. Good luck!
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Post by Wilf on Oct 21, 2020 23:15:06 GMT
Thank you to everyone who has already sent me scores for the first ten books. There are still four days left before I start crunching the numbers for that set - if you would like to join in and haven't already done so, please PM me with your ratings by Sunday night. (Especially if you're a fan of a particular title whose average is, surprisingly, steadily falling with every PM I get...)
And just in case that doesn't keep me sufficiently occupied, let's open up Round Two.
Please PM me your ratings for the following books before midnight on Wednesday 28th October:
Talisman Of Death Space Assassin Freeway Fighter Temple Of Terror The Rings Of Kether Seas Of Blood Appointment With F.E.A.R. Rebel Planet Demons Of The Deep Sword Of The Samurai.
I'll start sharing some of my findings after the weekend, but I won't reveal any actual scores or placings until Round Eight closes. Spoilers!
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Post by Wilf on Oct 23, 2020 7:52:43 GMT
If you haven't yet sent me your scores for Round One, it's not too late and you can still make a difference, because I currently have two books tied for seventh place...
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Post by Wilf on Oct 24, 2020 11:10:36 GMT
Thank you for continuing to send me your Round One votes. The seventh place tie has now been resolved - for the time being, at least - but I now have two books ranking jointly at sixth! If you haven't already PMed me - and there's one or two prominent posters who still haven't, so Round One might not be decided just yet - you can still decide the final outcome! The portcullis will drop at midnight tomorrow. You have 36 hours...
ETA: Or even 37 hours! Forgot about the skcolc.
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Post by johnbrawn1972 on Oct 24, 2020 18:00:59 GMT
Thank you for continuing to send me your Round One votes. The seventh place tie has now been resolved - for the time being, at least - but I now have two books ranking jointly at sixth! If you haven't already PMed me - and there's one or two prominent posters who still haven't, so Round One might not be decided just yet - you can still decide the final outcome! The portcullis will drop at midnight tomorrow. You have 36 hours... How the heck do I PM you? I promise to be sincere but this is what always traps me. I cannot be anything other than autistic.
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Post by a moderator on Oct 24, 2020 18:30:12 GMT
Clicking on his name at the side of one of his posts will take you to his profile, and from there you can use the 'Send message' button on the other side of the screen.
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Post by Wilf on Oct 24, 2020 21:26:49 GMT
Thank you, Greenspine. Fear not, John, I've got yours now - thank you.
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Post by Wilf on Oct 26, 2020 0:20:52 GMT
And here endeth the casting of the votes for Round One. Whilst I peruse the totals and ponder the implications, please consider your ratings for Round Three, and PM me with your scores for:
Trial Of Champions Robot Commando Masks Of Mayhem Creature Of Havoc Beneath Nightmare Castle Crypt Of The Sorcerer Star Strider Phantoms Of Fear Midnight Rogue Chasms Of Malice.
I will close Round Three at midnight on Sunday November 1st.
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Post by Wilf on Oct 26, 2020 1:29:50 GMT
ROUND ONE OBSERVATIONS:
Fifteen posters (plus myself) offered a numerical opinion in this round. All sixteen responders gave a score to Warlock, City, Deathtrap, and House. Fifteen people had a view on Citadel, Forest, Swamp and Caverns. And fourteen ratings were submitted for Starship and Island. Fear not - I slave over spreadsheets for a living, and have set this one up to ensure a no-vote for a given title will not affect its place in the rankings - a zero will lower the average, but an abstention will not.
Did any titles actually get a zero? Surely not - we're all fans here, right? Well, mostly. One voter gave one zero to one book, though I won't let on whether or not that book is in tenth place as a result. But I will tell you the book in question is Starship Traveller.
By contrast, three books received a perfect 10/10 from at least one voter: Citadel Of Chaos, Deathtrap Dungeon, and House Of Hell. But these are not the top three of the round...
...indeed, the title whose average was "steadily falling" on Thursday morning was one of these three. Happily, my appeal for votes very much reversed that trend, and the book in question received half a dozen votes, all of 8 or above, thereafter.
The Warlock Of Firetop Mountain and City Of Thieves are the least controversial books in Round One. By this, I mean that there is only a difference of three points between the highest and lowest scores they received. And in Warlock's case, the variance was only two until the very last PM came in.
The Forest Of Doom, Starship Traveller, and Caverns Of The Snow Witch are at the other end of the spectrum, with a difference of seven points between their highest and lowest scores. This is still a comparative consensus next to a certain title in Round Two, though, which received two tens and a zero from the first three people to respond...
And despite being in this 'Marmite' category, The Forest Of Doom received the same rating from the last six voters... and no-one else!
There is a difference of 3.3 points between the averages of the most and least generous responders' scores in this round.
Ian Livingstone's books in Round One score higher on average than Steve Jackson (UK)'s books... but it's very close!
I spoke earlier of a tie for seventh place and then a tie for sixth. I won't name all three books involved, but I will reveal that Scorpion Swamp was in both ties.
But exactly which book came where, and what their averages were, is something I'll save until Round Eight closes. I would hate for this information to influence the voting on future rounds. I would also ask everyone who took part please not to reveal your scores to anyone before all the rounds are complete.
More useless tidbits on Wednesday night/Thursday morning after I close Round Two and open up Round Four...
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Oct 27, 2020 9:25:35 GMT
No FF book deserves a negative score to me. The worst - appointment with fear - is a 5.
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Post by Wilf on Oct 27, 2020 12:07:44 GMT
No FF book deserves a negative score to me. The worst - appointment with fear - is a 5. No book will receive a negative score. Everyone is asked to provide scores between 0 and 10.
Should anyone try to provide a score outside that range, I will treat it as a spoiled ballot. Nobody yet has, (although one person has said they'd like to in the case of one book).
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Post by daredevil123 on Oct 27, 2020 12:31:43 GMT
I think by "negative score" he means lower than 5 - IE closer to 0 than 10. Hence the lowest score he gives is 5.
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Post by Wilf on Oct 27, 2020 13:26:50 GMT
I would also ask everyone who took part please not to reveal your scores to anyone before all the rounds are complete.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,453
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Oct 27, 2020 15:17:29 GMT
No FF book deserves a negative score to me. The worst - appointment with fear - is a 5. Without giving anything away, I've been scoring the books in comparison to one another. If I were to rate them compared to all books, or even just gamebooks, in general, probably nothing would get less than 7/10.
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