kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,451
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Aug 28, 2015 10:06:59 GMT
Well technically the Mad Green Leper on the Wizard cover is Razaak too.
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Aug 28, 2015 13:03:41 GMT
Well technically the Mad Green Leper on the Wizard cover is Razaak too. Indeed. However, somethings are just difficult to explain. The Puffin Cover of Crypt of the Sorcerer is just the best one of all Fighting Fantasy Gamebooks. And the reason is very clear: Razaak. He just has something that no other enemy have.
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Post by hynreck on Aug 31, 2015 15:35:35 GMT
Yes, Razaak does have something that no other enemy have: his world's number 1 greatest fan! (and I'm not talking about Annie Wilkes, here)
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,678
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Sept 1, 2015 21:35:37 GMT
Against my better judgment, I started reading Crypt of Razaak again. Yes, Vags made me do it. Surfing through and reading the intro and ending, it occurs to me that the final paragraph is rather ambiguous. Yes, you are prevented from being turned into a Skeleton. But what exactly did Yaztromo do? Did he really just neutralise the sword's power as he states? Possibly. But what if he didn't? What if he had to do something too dark and terrible for you to know about in that moment of triumph? Notice how you have no idea how long you stayed unconscious at the end. And how Borri and Symm, though present, stay quiet and let Yaztromo do all the talking.
I may be looking into this too deeply but I do find it intriguing all the same. Are we readers supposed to accept the ending for exactly how it's presented, or is it left open for us to ponder on the aftermath?
I’d be interested to know what everyone's take is on this.
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Sept 1, 2015 23:54:20 GMT
But what exactly did Yaztromo do? I really like Yaztromo. He is pure, good, and believer. But I saw Fear in his eyes when he spoke of Razaak. And, Never, in no other occasion I saw fear in his eyes! If someone comes to make a sequel of Razaak, my only wish is that that someone be able to do a book (400 or 500 paragraphs) such as wonderful as this. Such a book would be a treasure. Undoubtedly. But it will not be me to do so. Fear. Never before had I seen fear in Yaztromo's eyes.
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Post by hynreck on Sept 2, 2015 15:05:35 GMT
So, Vag, what Yaztromo did was fear? And of course, you never saw fear in Yaztromo's eyes, but I won't go there. As for Sylas' very real puzzling, I'm afraid I can't answer as I can't even remember this bit for the life of me. I would have to pick it up again but I'm not in a hurry as right now I'm into The Way of the Tiger (Ninja!) and it is Way Better, so far, than Crypt of the Guy Who Put Fear in the Eyes of Yaztromo for the First Time.
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Post by a moderator on Sept 2, 2015 16:37:33 GMT
Interesting idea, sylas, but I think it's rather too subtle for Crypt-era Ian Livingstone.
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Sept 3, 2015 1:06:52 GMT
Disgust. Disgust for humanity is all that is seen in the eyes of Razaak. Disgusted by humanity that wants to be exactly the way it is, and do not want to go beyond itself to another essential form. Disgust. Disgust for humanity is all that is seen in the eyes of Razaak. And power.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2015 1:48:37 GMT
I am reading Crypt of the Sorcerer right now. There are so many things you need to do just to succeed and so many numbers to remember because if you don't have them you're screwed. Still haven't found the number that Raz puts on his zombies. There is a necklace, but that's not what I'm looking for.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2015 1:50:36 GMT
So, Vag, what Yaztromo did was fear? And of course, you never saw fear in Yaztromo's eyes, but I won't go there. As for Sylas' very real puzzling, I'm afraid I can't answer as I can't even remember this bit for the life of me. I would have to pick it up again but I'm not in a hurry as right now I'm into The Way of the Tiger (Ninja!) and it is Way Better, so far, than Crypt of the Guy Who Put Fear in the Eyes of Yaztromo for the First Time. Also, if you examine the illustration of Yaztromo where he's tied down, he's not scared at all.
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Post by hynreck on Sept 3, 2015 12:28:54 GMT
Kinky.
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Sept 3, 2015 14:20:47 GMT
What a Quest!! Even Ungoth is to my eyes, more powerful, more interesting, and more charismatic, than most villains of all the other Fighting Fantasy books.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2015 19:27:58 GMT
When I gaze into my crystal ball, I see...... I see... someone has written something involving a sequel?
The image is fading.... fading...
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,678
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Sept 3, 2015 21:47:12 GMT
okay, it's a tad cliche and sometimes incoherent, but i am amazed that Vags is at least putting some effort into it. it's the largest body of text i've ever seen him write, and it even sparks a few ideas on how the adventure can proceed.
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Post by hynreck on Sept 4, 2015 13:09:08 GMT
Yes, it's some long fan fiction praising the mightiness of Razaak instead of... wait a minute. Just the usual praises? From one small post to the next? Oh well, at least it is quite the elaboration, not a straight copy/paste job.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2015 17:24:10 GMT
Against my better judgment, I started reading Crypt of Razaak again. Yes, Vags made me do it. Surfing through and reading the intro and ending, it occurs to me that the final paragraph is rather ambiguous. Yes, you are prevented from being turned into a Skeleton. But what exactly did Yaztromo do? Did he really just neutralise the sword's power as he states? Possibly. But what if he didn't? What if he had to do something too dark and terrible for you to know about in that moment of triumph? Notice how you have no idea how long you stayed unconscious at the end. And how Borri and Symm, though present, stay quiet and let Yaztromo do all the talking. I may be looking into this too deeply but I do find it intriguing all the same. Are we readers supposed to accept the ending for exactly how it's presented, or is it left open for us to ponder on the aftermath? I’d be interested to know what everyone's take is on this. I think Yaztromo neutralized the sword, he's a wizard, he has the power. Then again, to be kidnapped like that and not fight back magickally is odd, so one wonders how far his powers actually go? It was a very short abrupt ending, i was kinda left up in the air like 'what? Uh, okay' kinda feeling. Now that you mention it WHY were Borri and Symm quiet? I doubt this could lead to any sequel regarding YOU as an adventurer (and your future) since we know what has happened to Razaak and that he's not coming back. Yaztromo has seen many adventurers come and go, so losing you might be difficult, but there's nothing much he can do about it. With the evil sorcerer disposed of, what good is the sword?
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,678
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Sept 10, 2015 22:27:49 GMT
I think Yaztromo neutralized the sword, he's a wizard, he has the power. Then again, to be kidnapped like that and not fight back magickally is odd, so one wonders how far his powers actually go? It was a very short abrupt ending, i was kinda left up in the air like 'what? Uh, okay' kinda feeling. Now that you mention it WHY were Borri and Symm quiet? I doubt this could lead to any sequel regarding YOU as an adventurer (and your future) since we know what has happened to Razaak and that he's not coming back. Yaztromo has seen many adventurers come and go, so losing you might be difficult, but there's nothing much he can do about it. With the evil sorcerer disposed of, what good is the sword? when power is stripped away from an enchanted sword, it becomes a normal sword. but if that were the case, why still bury it 'under tons of rock and rubble at the bottom of the fissure'? what good or evil will it do anyone who finds this 'neutralised' sword? and guess who else is likely still down there? oh no one special - just Ungoth the Skeleton Lord, guardian of the crypt that you've just ruined and probably a necromancer in his own right, a being so powerful you become instantly petrified if you even think about attacking him. so yeah, thanks Yaztromo for leaving the sword in the presence of the only other person who knows anything about it. because like Middle Earth's Sauron, destroyed beings can totally be forgotten about and i'm sure Razaak the Undying One isn't going leave any of his spirit in his self created sword. and having a Skeleton Lord guardian who can probably resurrect him through his sword or grave dust totally isn't anything to worry about either. but blah blah blah...and celebrate you do.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2015 20:19:12 GMT
I guess the only person who knows for sure is Mr. Livingstone, and I don't think we'll be able to probe his mind.
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Sept 20, 2015 14:30:40 GMT
The moment i reached that lake. walking slowly towards its margins. when i forced my eyes and my eyes saw it. saw him. My heart stop beating. Truely. No words could describe it.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,678
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Sept 20, 2015 23:16:56 GMT
The moment i reached that lake. walking slowly towards its margins. when i forced my eyes and my eyes saw it. saw him. My heart stop beating. Truely. No words could describe it. he saw Razaak.
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Post by hynreck on Sept 21, 2015 12:20:17 GMT
If only that were so...
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Oct 6, 2015 21:04:00 GMT
When i saw Razaak looking at me, i felt in him a wish for power as i have never seen before. I always asked myself what was the reason for that.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,678
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Oct 6, 2015 21:22:30 GMT
When i saw Razaak looking at me, i felt in him a wish for power as i have never seen before. I always asked myself what was the reason for that. it's not his fault. he was drawn that way.
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Dec 1, 2015 1:06:38 GMT
Razaak. I disagree with the thought that a cause must always have at least as much reality as its effect. Ian created a being far more important than himself. From one certain point of view, Razaak is like a god.
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Post by a moderator on Dec 1, 2015 13:47:29 GMT
A profoundly disturbing and tragic certain point of view.
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Post by Jon on Dec 6, 2015 10:16:17 GMT
This book is practically unwinnable without cheating. On top of all the artifacts and weaponry and magical protections, the player character also required superpowers to win.
I would have liked there to have been an artifact that could empower them to that extent, but which would have meant an irreversible transformation. Like if there had been a replica of the Mask from the Mask, but which remained on forever. Much more interesting than turning into a skeleton.
Incidentally, do we know whether the camouflage from the Chameleonite blood was reversible or did the player character stay a slimy dark green?
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,678
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Dec 6, 2015 15:43:11 GMT
Minor alterations to make the book winnable in a fair way:
- Defender Shield reduces enemy AS by 1. - Razaak's sword gives +2 AS against Razaak and the Hellspawn. +1 against everything else. - increase Hellspawn Skill to 10. - Yaztromo gives you a choice of 3 potions (Skill, Strength, Fortune) upon each meeting. - you begin with 10 Provisions like all adventurers should.
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Dec 9, 2015 3:08:42 GMT
The most perfect evil sorcerer is without doubt - Razaak. There is something in him that there is in no other. A hate for life. A rage for life. A disgust for life. A huge emptiness in his eyes. An enormous power.
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Post by hynreck on Dec 9, 2015 14:43:37 GMT
He's got a lot of characterisation, for sure. Remember that time when he... well, when the hero was trapped and then, Razaak showed up with your girl friend, gloating, wait, that's not it, no... Remember when... he just... sit there waiting for you to... arrive. Well, I'm stuck, got nothing, sorry. Lifeless eyes, lifeless chap, limp bad guy. Only as powerful as Livingston felt like giving us shit.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,451
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Dec 9, 2015 15:26:40 GMT
Shun the unbeliever! Shun! Shun!
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