|
Post by thealmightymudworm on Feb 20, 2014 14:08:25 GMT
From TUFFF (October 2010, one year after thread first posted)...
Ok, ok ok... So the gameplay consists of this: Walk North... Door on either side of the passageway... Do you wish to enter the left (xxx) or right (xxx) door or continue North?
Walk North... Door on either side of the passageway... Do you wish to enter the left (xxx) or right (xxx) door or continue North?
Walk North... Door on either side of the passageway... Do you wish to enter the left (xxx) or right (xxx) door or continue North? You arrive at a T-junction. Do you wish to go left (xxx) or right (xxx)? Walk North... Door on either side of the passageway... Do you wish to enter the left (xxx) or right (xxx) door or continue North?
Walk North... Door on either side of the passageway... Do you wish to enter the left (xxx) or right (xxx) door or continue North?
Walk North... Door on either side of the passageway... Do you wish to enter the left (xxx) or right (xxx) door or continue North?
......BUT I still enjoyed it. It was easy to map, at any rate... Also, Livingstone does have a very good way of introducing companions to your adventure that you actually feel like you're travelling with, which I also enjoy a lot. and the artwork in this book was pretty cool, if in a slightly different (didn't get paid much) style. What do you think? ~ Vae Victis! ~
|
|
|
Post by thealmightymudworm on Feb 20, 2014 14:11:05 GMT
From TUFFF... Livingstone does have a very good way of introducing companions to your adventure that you actually feel like you're travelling with, which I also enjoy a lot. and the artwork in this book was pretty cool, if in a slightly different (didn't get paid much) style.
What do you think? Really? For me the best...sorry, the ONLY thing great about this book was the artwork, barring that awfully uninspired cover. I don't think the art was done haphazardly. Many even looked like they took a lot of time and effort, such as lovely old Pia and the detail on those candles in the background. Having said that, I do think Martin's artwork is beginning to look a bit stiff. Because his style is progressing towards boldness and realism, it also loses a lot of dynamism that was so effectively brought through from the likes of Iain McCaig, Russ Nicholson and even Bob Harvey. There's a big difference between a great illustration on the page and a not so great illustration that leaps out of the page. Two Words
|
|
|
Post by thealmightymudworm on Feb 20, 2014 14:11:37 GMT
From TUFFF... Well, I don't think it was as bad as Curse of the Mummy's artwork, but it's nowhere near the heights of Return to Firetop Mountain and Legend of Zagor. ~ Vae Victis! ~
|
|
|
Post by thealmightymudworm on Feb 20, 2014 14:12:52 GMT
From TUFFF... When I read this book I always have one question running around in my head. Who in creation moved the Deathtrap Dungeon into the Darkwood Forest? This is your typical Ian Livingstone dungeon crawl. Open the door or move on, left or right, pick up X to use on Y until the universe collapses in on itself. Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. But anyway, like all Livingstone's books I enjoyed it anyway, for what is lacking in originality, is made up for in atmosphere, and most rooms are very well presented, and that makes it an enjoyable book in its own right. And as you said masterchief, it is very easy to map, so that is a welcome change of pace for those of us who love maps (still haven't forgiven Steve Jackson for Citadel of Chaos, what a nightmare to map without using absurdly long passageways to connect everything up to the grand hall).
|
|
|
Post by thealmightymudworm on Feb 20, 2014 14:15:29 GMT
From TUFFF... This is your typical Ian Livingstone dungeon crawl. Open the door or move on, left or right, pick up X to use on Y until the universe collapses in on itself. Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. But anyway, like all Livingstones books I enjoyed it anyway, for what is lacking in originality, is made up for in atmosphere, and most rooms are very well presented, and that makes it an enjoyable book in its own right. Yes, this is exactly how I feel about Eye of the Dragon.
Deathtrap Dungeon, although fairly linear (well, quite very linear if you actually wanted to succeed) is a fan favourite because the atmosphere, the setting and the adventure or all high on the agenda. It is true that what he lacks in story telling design he makes up for with sheer adventure. ~ Vae Victis! ~
|
|
|
Post by thealmightymudworm on Feb 20, 2014 14:16:34 GMT
From TUFFF... Having said that, I do think Martin's artwork is beginning to look a bit stiff. Because his style is progressing towards boldness and realism Part of that I think is a result of switching to drawing entirely on a computer. (328) Despite your best efforts, you find yourself decaying in front of a computer screen. Your adventure ends here.
|
|
|
Post by thealmightymudworm on Feb 20, 2014 14:17:18 GMT
From TUFFF... All on computer...yes, technology sucks. It's hard trying to put soul into a machine.
I still think EOTD may have been better as a throwaway adventure for AFF players. Two Words
|
|
|
Post by thealmightymudworm on Feb 20, 2014 14:18:28 GMT
From TUFFF... I like the way it has a little restaurant in the middle of a dungeon.
|
|
|
Post by thealmightymudworm on Feb 20, 2014 14:19:50 GMT
From TUFFF... Hahaha! That's the classic Livingstone thing though, isn't it. I can't remember who's it was, maybe one of Greenspine's or Hynreck's I'm not sure, but someone's write up of him mentioned ages ago about the thoughts that must be going through someone's head to think "Oh yeah! I'll just set up shop in the middle of this creature infested dungeon". It is all rather bizarre. ~ Vae Victis! ~
|
|
|
Post by thealmightymudworm on Feb 20, 2014 14:20:37 GMT
From TUFFF (September 2011)... I just completed it, and I absolutely hate this book. I didn't like my companion Littlebig either, him and his skill 8 status. I didn't like the part where you had to pull the correct weapon from the wall in a certain sequence or face death... There was a lot going on in this book though, it kept me busy, but I will put it on my bookshelf and leave it be. I'm reading Creature of Havoc next and so far I like the background. Steve writes magick the way I wish I could. Maybe one day I'll try... The more beautiful and pure FF is – the more satisfying it is to corrupt it.
|
|
|
Post by thealmightymudworm on Feb 20, 2014 14:22:10 GMT
From TUFFF... I didn't like the part where you had to pull the correct weapon from the wall in a certain sequence or face death. Well if you've found at least 4 of the 5 keys you should know the order. Even with only 3 you stand a 50-50 chance.
|
|
|
Post by thealmightymudworm on Feb 20, 2014 14:22:40 GMT
From TUFFF... Oh, I see. The more beautiful and pure FF is – the more satisfying it is to corrupt it.
|
|
|
Post by thealmightymudworm on Feb 20, 2014 14:24:43 GMT
From TUFFF (January 2012)... This was the first new FF book under the Wizard banner back in 2005, after a 10 years hiatus, a rebirth of sort who seems, sadly, already a thing of the past. But let’s not dwell on this little negative fact (plus another rebirth is always a possibility!) let’s put ourselves instead in the mindset of back then. At first glance it looked great: a new book by the legendary Livingstone (and his last one too up til now, until we get our hands on that 30th anniversary zombie title he’s working on). Those fans in the know (if you were anything like me you weren’t even aware it was happening) were probably expecting something great, an epic gamebook to restart the series with a bang, something loud enough to make the world notice how FF wasn’t an outdated thing of the past, how it could still be inventive, cool, entertaining …how it could compete with today’s entertainment. Well, that’s probably a little bit what all fans were wishing for, but reality’s got a way of keeping us in check and the way it turned out, Eye of the Dragon was anything but. This sad little number turned out to be some shorter story penned a while ago by Livingstone, straight out of his past, retooled and extended as a full gamebook, but seriously lacking both in the storytelling and gameplay department. Truthfully, before delving into the bad, I mostly enjoyed this book. Probably due to the fact that I had no expectations whatsoever (well, no good ones) since I had read so many negative reviews. But in the end, I thought it was even better than Return to Firetop Mountain, as stunning as this might be. The reasons are simple enough: RtFM promises, with its title and number placement (50, last of the series!), to be an epic affair, but fails hard to deliver the goods. EotD isn’t epic by any means, but doesn’t promises that either (though I guess there was high expectations at first). RtFM bogs itself down in a pre-dungeon bit that’s mostly boring and predictable, then offer us a small dungeon short on nostalgia and nearly completely linear. Boring. EotD scraps its already paper thin plot to null by getting us to the dungeon right at the beginning, making for a bigger dungeon with branching paths and possibilities. Which, while not being anything mindblowing by any stretch of the imagination, does offer something closer to the experience found in The Warlock of Firetop Moutain, something RtFM should have tried to replicate more (okay, EotD is closer to Deathtrap Dungeon, but still, you get the point). Now, if there’s one thing wrong with EotD, it is that it doesn’t make one small bit of sense. Also, the choices you are given are painfully lacking. Okay, I guess that’s two things wrong, but before I go down a "I didn’t expect the Spanish Inquisition" path, let me stop here and start telling instead. The setting. What setting? I hear some of you ask. Yes, quite right. You are playing the most gullible fool on Titan, going to seek a valuable treasure - and risk your neck several times doing so - just on the word of some random shady character you’ve just met. Yes I know times are tough, but did I really have to be such a fool as to go and drink the - supposedly - slow-acting poison without even so much as asking a few questions first? We’re pretty far from the type of legendary hero found in such books as Knights of Doom or Dead of Night, in fact, we’re even worst - dumber - than the type of ultra basic hero found in such fare as The Warlock of Firetop Mountain; at least I can think of that particular individual as a fearless reckless hero, with still an ounce of intelligence and wits about him (while I’ll agree this is debatable). EotD’s hero is just plain dumb. He’s like Ash in Army of Darkness, an anti-hero but without the cool and witty one-liners, minus the charming personality of Bruce Campbell’s character. …well, the hero in EotD could be considered an anti-hero, an interesting concept after all, if there was a proper story to back him up. There isn’t. There’s no major threat against society, no bad guy to bring to justice. There’s a small villain, but really, all of this, all this rather extreme situation, is all your own damn fault, through your own stupidity. It’s hard to sympathise with such a character. And the end goal? Nothing more than a theft, really. No more no less. And if you are looking for context, some kind of background development to inform your actions or just inform on the why such and such things are there… well… You know. There isn’t any. There’s no reasons for such a dungeon to exist underneath Darkwood Forest. Am I saying that there couldn’t be one? No. There could be, we’re just never told why. And I’m all for a little bit of mystery, but this book is pushing it beyond that, it’s in the realm of I don’t care, I’ve put it there, deal with it. Such a shame. There’s no explanation on why the golden dragon statue’s been put there. Sure it’s a pricey treasure, I guess, but why there in particular? It doesn’t have any power that I know of. Sure it’s worth a lot, but how in hell would we know what it’s worth when it’s locked away in such a dangerous place? Maybe Sharcle’s really good at appraising on the spot, but somehow I don’t think so. The only other option would be that he is a con man through and through, but others seem to believe the dragon to be worth a lot, so… In any case, a stretch to believe in for sure. As for context on the dungeon’s multiple traps and denizens? Nothing in the book either. You’ll probably meet witches, vampires, wizards, trolls and other creatures all with no real reasons to be there, and without connections to each other, and most often without connections to your goal either. Interactions with most of them is also non-existent except for fighting or running away. Indeed, you can always run away from all encounters without consequences. In fact, you can even go so far as to flee from the Hell Demon whichever way you want. The Hell Demon is such a nice guy that he’ll let you go wherever you want to without a penalty. That’s the other really big problem with this book; a serious lack of options. Sure you’ve got your basics covered, left, right, open this door, fight or flee, but there’s also the odd Livingstonian choices in there, who seems to have developed a weird food fetish along the way: I swear as soon as something looked remotely edible I was asked if I wanted to eat it. I was surprised I wasn’t asked to eat some pottery pieces at one point or another. There’s a constant lack of rational choices that’s very annoying. The vampire girl that you can meet is a perfect example of what’s missing. You are asked if you’ve got a silver dagger or garlic to deal with her, or else you need to use your sword… Meanwhile I’ve got a stake in my backpack (it’s a stick with sharp ends, that should do) and access to fire both (I believe) in the room and the passage behind me. Now I’m no Einstein, but I believe both are effective against a vampire, why can’t I use them? There’s still some good stuff that I found in all of this mess. As I said, the dungeon offered more branching paths than I expected, making it less linear, with a good amount of diversity in the encounters and the rooms, enough to keep me interested for at least one playthrough. The use of the sidekick was also good, not great, but better than expected. Frankly, being in a Livingstone book I expected my dwarf companion to go all Mungo on my ass about two sections after meeting him, but to my delight he lasted quite a bit longer with some pleasing bits then and there (I did have to kill him later on, but this is my thing, so…). Cover by McKenna’s good, well done, but fails to ignite the imagination. It’s too conservative, too restraint, but I guess the Maestro had to work with what he had: not much of a story. Inside illos fare better, but some do look a bit too much computerized for my liking. Still, great overall. This book had potential. It even achieved well in certain areas. It’s not a complete bomb but the overall lack of lustre can’t be denied. The rebirth of FF deserved a better opening salvo from Ian; let’s just hope that he puts his all into the next book. It shouldn’t be too hard to top this one. Speak in extremes, it will save you time.
|
|
|
Post by thealmightymudworm on Feb 20, 2014 14:29:05 GMT
From TUFFF... "You’ll probably meet witches, vampires, wizards, trolls and other creatures all with no real reasons to be there, and without connections to each other, and most often without connections to your goal either." That made me laugh. It's true that this is a reality most of the time and when it doesn't have to be. I actually don't have this book in my possession, but surprisingly I have Warlock of Firetop Mountain and Legend of Zagor. Ah well. I'll get it one day. The more beautiful and pure FF is – the more satisfying it is to corrupt it.
|
|
|
Post by thealmightymudworm on Feb 20, 2014 14:31:23 GMT
From TUFFF... Those fans in the know (if you were anything like me you weren’t even aware it was happening) were probably expecting something great, an epic gamebook to restart the series with a bang, something loud enough to make the world notice how FF wasn’t an outdated thing of the past, how it could still be inventive, cool, entertaining …how it could compete with today’s entertainment. Depends how 'in the know' they were. Anyone who'd read the original Eye, or just become disillusioned by Ian's later offerings, was probably expecting a travesty long before the book actually hit the shelves.
|
|
|
Post by thealmightymudworm on Feb 20, 2014 14:32:05 GMT
From TUFFF... Well pointed greenspine, I have never read the minis. And khaxzan, EotD is far from an essential, but if you are a completist... Speak in extremes, it will save you time.
|
|
|
Post by thealmightymudworm on Feb 20, 2014 14:33:41 GMT
From TUFFF... The stupidity of the hero here reminds me of a James Bond movie:
The Man with the Golden Gun. Anyone here ever notice how just about all of the second half of the movie happens entirely because of Agent Goodnight's fault? If Bond would have snuff her ass early on there would have been no movie...
I hate stupid plot devices like that.
Give me proper machinations, dammit! Speak in extremes, it will save you time.
|
|
|
Post by thealmightymudworm on Feb 20, 2014 14:38:30 GMT
From TUFFF... Anyone here ever notice how just about all of the second half of the movie happens entirely because of Agent Goodnight's fault? She got us a very nice stunt though: Halt, or I shall loose an arrow at you.
|
|
|
Post by thealmightymudworm on Feb 20, 2014 14:40:31 GMT
From TUFFF... Can't see this at the job. But if it's the car spin/jump you are talking about, yes, very nice. And all done for real. Speak in extremes, it will save you time.
|
|
|
Post by thealmightymudworm on Feb 20, 2014 14:41:19 GMT
From TUFFF... Exactly this one! Poor you... I couldn't survive work without YouTube! Halt, or I shall loose an arrow at you.
|
|
Idon'twanttokillZagoragain
Guest
|
Post by Idon'twanttokillZagoragain on Aug 6, 2014 13:16:00 GMT
Hi does anyone know how to learn 'Hole in the Wall' spell because I'm stuck. Thanks for prospective reply
|
|
|
Post by champskees on Aug 11, 2014 8:46:29 GMT
Hmm I'm writing up a solution right now actually! It is in the same area as the copper key.
|
|
|
Post by cyranotheswordfish on Apr 10, 2015 12:25:52 GMT
And so my randomly-ordered playthroughs brought me to Eye of the Dragon, the book that disappointed many but proved, for me, to be quite enjoyable. Of course, the complaints about the premise, the merchant and the rather bland choices are totally valid, but I found that I appreciated the general simplicity of the adventure. I know many have also complained about the companion you pick up, Littlebig, but I felt that his presence added to the enjoyment (not by much, but still good), even if he was somewhat useless in combat.
Whilst the usual overly-long list of items to be found was present, I didn't mind too much this time as many of the items were clearly going to be useless (I know it's FF, but it would have been uncharacteristically unfair to make a fish hook vital to your quest), so I felt alright about lazily neglecting to write them down. In fact, I think there are only 3 items/pieces of information you need to have found to win, and they're pretty sensible, though there are some which help a lot as you're going to need a lot of luck or a frankly masochistic level of willingness to replay to guess your way through the puzzle at the end. Actually, I felt that the items that helped with this puzzle seemed to be almost handed out to the player if they made the correct uninformed decisions about where to go early on (I got pretty lucky there, admittedly).
You do, I feel, need a rather strong character for this one - there aren't many obligatory tough encounters, but yeah, the Gigantus. Also, I thought letting the player start with one of the emerald eyes already was a bit lazy, even if it made the book relatively well balanced overall - I got through it in 3 attempts, which were:
-Killed by Razaak's sword (how many has he got and how exactly did it end up there?) -Killed by the Gigantus -Victory!
Deathmoor next!
|
|
kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,437
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
|
Post by kieran on Apr 14, 2015 9:55:16 GMT
The doppleganger and that corpse thing are pretty tough as well. I think it was Ian's intention that at least some of the skill bonuses should have been attack strength bonuses instead which would explain why the enemies at the start are so weak by comparison. Also the original Dicing with Dragons version did allow you to exceed your initial stats by a limited amount.
You know, it never occured to me that it might be a different one of his swords. The fact it behaves differently and is in a completely different place from where you would expect suggests it is another of his swords.
|
|
vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
|
Post by vagsancho on Jun 17, 2019 16:32:11 GMT
Why does nobody like this book. Is not a livingstone-type book like island of the lizard king?
|
|
|
Post by johnbrawn1972 on Jun 17, 2019 16:58:33 GMT
Why does nobody like this book. Is not a livingstone-type book like island of the lizard king? After the sometimes brilliant experiments that have been tried to have a dungeon crawler rammed down your throat just stinks especially compared to the later Jonathan Green efforts which showed what could be done if you really cared.
|
|
kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,437
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
|
Post by kieran on Jun 18, 2019 1:51:44 GMT
Why does nobody like this book. Is not a livingstone-type book like island of the lizard king? <shrug> I like it. It's very old school though, definitely doesn't try to do anything new with the genre.
|
|
kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,437
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
|
Post by kieran on Sept 18, 2020 8:48:35 GMT
This made me think of this book:
|
|
|
Post by Charles X. on Jul 17, 2021 20:59:05 GMT
Seriously unoriginal. A computer program could construct a better FF. One day someone will appear on this site with a computer program which will construct FFs. They will be the biggest hit since Tamagotchis.
|
|
|
Post by stevendoig on Jul 17, 2021 21:40:03 GMT
Ever tried A.I dungeon? - tremendous fun and I'm sure you could convince it be be an ff book!
|
|