vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Jul 23, 2015 15:58:11 GMT
Fantastic book. Magic Book. One masterpiece from Kieth Martin.
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Jul 12, 2019 9:54:19 GMT
Who is the evil "boss" of this very strange book?
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,451
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Jul 12, 2019 11:09:42 GMT
Who is the evil "boss" of this very strange book? As far as I recall, the plan was the Demon Prince Sith's idea. The demon Relem was working for her and then the wizard Zeverin was in turn working for Relem. The plan seems to fall apart once Relem is killed.
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Jul 12, 2019 12:32:26 GMT
Never read nothing about demon prince sith in this book.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,451
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Jul 12, 2019 12:55:01 GMT
Never read nothing about demon prince sith in this book. I think this is the only reference to her: 321: "Zeverin is mad; he thinks Sith and her henchman, Relem, will reward him for this service. They will just leave him to last, that's all." I suppose she may not have been aware what Relem and Zeverin were up to even if they were ultimately acting in her interest.
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Jul 14, 2019 16:51:04 GMT
The worst puzzle of all fighting fantasy gamebooks.. That fucking piano puzzle.
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Post by a moderator on Jul 14, 2019 17:00:54 GMT
The tile puzzle in Space Assassin and the Trial of Ghosts in Phantoms of Fear are worse because they're so random and arbitrary.
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Jul 14, 2019 18:27:02 GMT
But those puzzles from space assassin and phantoms of fear are not necessary to win. The piano puzzle i would say is almost necessary to win and also a crutial part of the adventure. But by the way whats the solution for those?
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Post by vastariner on Jul 16, 2019 20:30:19 GMT
The worst puzzle of all fighting fantasy gamebooks.. That fucking piano puzzle. It's not actually a piano puzzle. It's a substitution cipher.
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Jul 16, 2019 22:54:35 GMT
Very strange book. I think with one or two serious flaws. But i want to play / to feel it again. At least one last time.
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Post by Law on Jun 18, 2020 13:42:11 GMT
After finally beating Tower of Destruction (as honestly as I could manage)...
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Post by Law on Jun 18, 2020 14:10:14 GMT
This is a gruelling, almost thankless book; that will see you dying from a sadistic mandatory combat gauntlet more than Livingstone insta-deaths.
But Mr Martin always brings his scenario home with fantastic multi-tiered confrontations in the finale that, (if they play out dramatically) can wash away the doldrums entire.
Puzzles, I hear you ask? What puzzles? (rechecks walkthrough)
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,451
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Jun 18, 2020 14:18:41 GMT
Not a huge fan of this one but I agree that the finale is pretty awesome.
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Post by Law on Jun 18, 2020 14:43:29 GMT
Not a huge fan of this one but I agree that the finale is pretty awesome. Used all my potions of stamina, nips of whiskey and sometimes a meal after certain combat encounters (I may bend the rules but I've never stuffed myself with stacked provisions to restore 8+ST!) I ended the book with 1 Stamina point left (shot with the Test Luck crossbow bolt) but ye gods my poor fur trapper lost an accumulated 122 Stamina points over his journey!
He was slashed up by the Smoke Demon, chomped on by the Ice Drake, brutalized by the Mutant Orc, mauled by the Polar Bear, prison-shanked by the Dark Elves, crushed and rolled over by the Great Golem and stabbed, raked, electrocuted and burnt by Relem. Must have ended up like this.
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Post by daredevil123 on Jun 18, 2020 17:30:50 GMT
After finally beating Tower of Destruction (as honestly as I could manage)...
Believe it or not, I just finished watching the extended edition of The Return of The King. Congratulations on finishing the book - I've never even attempted it.
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Post by Law on Jun 18, 2020 23:56:36 GMT
Still, I enjoyed that you got to wield the sword of an "Ice Elf" in this adventure.
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Post by The Count on Jun 19, 2020 21:47:15 GMT
I have never completed this, though I did enjoy it overall. Ignoring the fact that the plot with the flying tower doesn't make sense, and I kept dying at the sphere - the existence of which compounds the plot issue.
It is however more like the tedious trek from the Snow Witch than any other Keith Martin book and seems to be either rushed or rewritten and re edited at the last minute.
Before trying to complete it however, I want to have forgotten the puzzle solutions so I can enjoy solving them.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,451
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Jun 20, 2020 6:47:38 GMT
Before trying to complete it however, I want to have forgotten the puzzle solutions so I can enjoy solving them. I'd happily take that memory from you. Those puzzles leave me completely bewildered.
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Post by bloodbeasthandler on Jun 23, 2020 7:23:58 GMT
Before trying to complete it however, I want to have forgotten the puzzle solutions so I can enjoy solving them. I'd happily take that memory from you. Those puzzles leave me completely bewildered. I read the book for the first time in years yesterday (read, not played) and it's better than I remembered. A striking and shocking attack to begin the book; an evil plot to be discovered and countered; excellent villains, not just the big ones but, say , the detachment of Dark Elves too; sensible and humane decisions rewarded; foolish actions punished. Things generally make sense and are a far cry from the '5 orcs in a room they draw their swords and attack' stuff you get earlier on in the gamebook series. I prefer the 'hub and spoke' style compared to the 'do you shop for magic items go to 123, or do you shop for standard equipment go to 234' only to SUBSEQUENTTLY find that you cannot shop for both and if you'd have known that you'd never have gone to those shops etc.. gets on my nerves that does and makes me want to cheat. I wish I'd persevered more with the music clue. When the book came out I wrote it off as undoable, but as a grown man I would say that it IS doable - I should have stuck at it and plugged in the names of elven personalities already mentioned in the book to see if any of the names fitted the cipher.
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Post by schlendrian on Jun 23, 2020 20:47:27 GMT
I prefer the 'hub and spoke' style compared to the 'do you shop for magic items go to 123, or do you shop for standard equipment go to 234' only to SUBSEQUENTTLY find that you cannot shop for both and if you'd have known that you'd never have gone to those shops etc.. gets on my nerves that does and makes me want to cheat. I hate this so much!
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Post by vastariner on Jun 24, 2020 9:52:44 GMT
I prefer the 'hub and spoke' style compared to the 'do you shop for magic items go to 123, or do you shop for standard equipment go to 234' only to SUBSEQUENTTLY find that you cannot shop for both and if you'd have known that you'd never have gone to those shops etc.. gets on my nerves that does and makes me want to cheat. I hate this so much! They work best in things like Moonrunner, where you have to pick and choose because of the time (or notoriety) constraints, so you have to choose right.
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Post by bloodbeasthandler on Jun 24, 2020 10:55:41 GMT
They work best in things like Moonrunner, where you have to pick and choose because of the time (or notoriety) constraints, so you have to choose right. Good example. Where you are aware beforehand of those constraints and can prioritise accordingly.
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Post by Wilf on Jun 24, 2020 11:49:38 GMT
They work best in things like Moonrunner, where you have to pick and choose because of the time (or notoriety) constraints, so you have to choose right. Good example. Where you are aware beforehand of those constraints and can prioritise accordingly. Real Life doesn't always make you aware of all the constraints in advance. Neither should FF if it improves a book's replayability.
It's quite egregious if there's no reason given why you can't take an option previously offered you, though. The Noose in Midnight Rogue being a prime example.
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Post by bloodbeasthandler on Jun 24, 2020 12:36:43 GMT
Good example. Where you are aware beforehand of those constraints and can prioritise accordingly. Real Life doesn't always make you aware of all the constraints in advance. Neither should FF if it improves a book's replayability.
It's quite egregious if there's no reason given why you can't take an option previously offered you, though. The Noose in Midnight Rogue being a prime example.
Understood. If I go into the Magic Shop and get embroiled in something unexpectedly time-consuming or end up getting chased out of town, I won't get the time to go to the hardware store and get rope, lanterns and food etc. and I'm fine with that for the reasons you put above. First time I played Midnight Rogue I did NOT go to The Noose with the result that I was doomed to failure from the very first possible choice. No clue was given to go there first, and I wondered if it was an oversight by the writer. The only thing approaching a clue that I can see is that The Noose is described as a place where 'gossip and rumours' are to be found ...and... I suppose I should have thought forewarned is forearmed??? Pretty tenuous though, there's nothing to suggest that the people with all the gossip are going to disappear in an hour's time after you've burgled Brass' office.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,451
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Jun 24, 2020 15:57:35 GMT
First time I played Midnight Rogue I did NOT go to The Noose with the result that I was doomed to failure from the very first possible choice. No clue was given to go there first, and I wondered if it was an oversight by the writer. The only thing approaching a clue that I can see is that The Noose is described as a place where 'gossip and rumours' are to be found ...and... I suppose I should have thought forewarned is forearmed??? Pretty tenuous though, there's nothing to suggest that the people with all the gossip are going to disappear in an hour's time after you've burgled Brass' office. What makes it extra annoying is the clue from the Noose doesn't really you tell you anything of use anyway.
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Aug 14, 2020 19:40:14 GMT
If not for Vault of the Vampire, Tower of Destruction is easily the best book of Keith Martin. The book is very, very strong where almost all the other FF books are not. A very critical point. A very, very good anthagonist. A wizard who is always present, an almost undefeatable wizard, and if that was not enough, a misterious fabulous Relem, that no one knows if he is even more powerfull than him. For one point of view he seems more powerfull, but from other point of view, he seems not, and that mistery only increases even more the aphoteotic ending of this book.
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Post by Wilf on Aug 14, 2020 20:54:06 GMT
The tile puzzle in Space Assassin and the Trial of Ghosts in Phantoms of Fear are worse because they're so random and arbitrary. The tile puzzle, yes. But (correct me if I'm misremembering) The Trial Of Ghosts is work-out-able because the correct number can be reached from all of the starting points.
I didn't say easy, but still doable, and thus not entirely random and arbitrary.
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Post by a moderator on Aug 14, 2020 21:33:10 GMT
I'd heard that the correct number can't be reached from some of the starting points, adding a further element of nastiness because you may be arbitrarily doomed even before you start. I haven't tested the claim, as I try to avoid ever having to attempt the wretched 'puzzle', but I'm not overly keen to check.
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Post by Wilf on Aug 15, 2020 13:01:02 GMT
The correct number is 205 It can be reached as follows: 1+35+136+22+11 2+115+9+60+19 3+63+115+9+15
5+22+86+45+47 6+51+80+21+47 It seems it can be reached from five of the starting points - can anyone confirm if it's doable from 4?
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Post by a moderator on Aug 15, 2020 15:52:37 GMT
Against my better judgement, I spent a chunk of last night checking in much the same way that you must have done. AFAICT, there is no way of getting the target number if you start on 4.
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