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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 5, 2013 12:15:59 GMT
masterchief:
Do you love this book so much you tuck it under the covers at night? Did you hate it so badly you used it as loo-roll? Let the world know!
~MC~
~ Vae Victis! ~
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 5, 2013 12:17:21 GMT
hynreck:
Another book I never read before. Having read Space Assassin not long ago, and ending up not that impressed, I was a bit apprehensive of that second space offering from Andrew Chapman.
Surprise! I ended up enjoying this little detective intrigue.
It's not that I was overly blown away by the story. It's fairly basic roman noir stuff. But it's the different approach to a FF story; not that much fighting, with a greater focus on investigative stuff, the subtile approach to the "how to negotiate a scene". Sure, it's not always clever, sometimes the choices don't seems to make sense, but it was still kind of fun; a breath of fresh air.
Perhaps the book would have worked better with a 1930's Chicago gangster-style angle, instead of a space one, but to be fair with Mr. Chapman, his Kether world is much more coherent than his earlier Vandervecken adventure, which was simply all over the place in design. In this one it is at least possible to believe to be truly a part of it, even if it's far from perfect. But then again, what is?
Somewhat annoyingly, though, I ended up finishing the book without feeling like I deserved the credit. Maybe it's due to the book's structure, but most of the time I felt like I didn't work enough for a clue. I took lots of notes, but I never ended needing them. I just stumbled my way through the book and won. And it doesn't help when you get stuff like that robot who ask you a strange question, from which apparently there's no answer anywhere in the book. I ended up getting it right on my first try, but it was all due to luck, nothing else.
So, one wonders if the "detective" work you are doing is not, in fact, all guess work, and really you should be playing the casino instead of wasting time doing a dangerous job...
Nevertheless, I ended up liking it more than I thought I would, and that's something to enjoy.
The cover illo was never something that inspired me, especially when I was young, but looking at it now I can see it's quite well done. Inside illos are too sci-fi for me: you know that particular trend to use too much straight lines? Using tools to make them extra straight? Why can't a sci-fi setting be full of organic lines, curves, smears? Why does it have to be cold and inhuman?
Yeah, the illos were okay, but I'm not a big fan of that style, I find it boring and sterile.
Still, beyond those illos, an interesting experiment.
Speak in extremes, it will save you time.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 5, 2013 12:18:16 GMT
oakdweller:
***SPOILERS AHEAD*** Andrew Chapman deserves praise for trying out something new. It must take a lot more time and effort to write an FF book with a detective approach than it is to rely on the more conventional exploratory stories. Unfortunately the detecting element is rather lacking in reader involvement because most of the choices concern where to seek information and who to question. This would've been fine to an extent, but there just aren't enough opportunities to choose what to ask characters. The only example of this approach that I found on my recent re-play was the selection of questions that you can ask of the creature in the C230 asteroid. When I played this as a kid I am ashamed to say that I didn't really think too hard about all of the clues and leads that the book gave me. I just selected options by instinct rather than any cunning sleuth work. But I still won on my second attempt! If I could find my way to Blaster Babbet without having to put my brain into top gear then this is a sure sign that the detective gaming is flawed. The planet Kether might be a more realistic/convincing setting than the Vandervecken of Space Assassin was, but it is also a great deal duller too. There's little description to add colour to this world and the cold, soulless illustrations don't help either. None of the culture of Rebel Planet, the strangeness of Space Assassin or the novelty of Robot Commando is present here. The characters are cardboard and the lifeless restaurants, apartment blocks and spaceports could be anywhere. The seemingly endless SKILL rolls that the book tells you to make didn't wake me up either. One location which is an interesting exception to all this blandness is the mysterious asteroid C230. Concealing a secretive monastery inside an asteroid is a highly original idea and I didn't even mind that the genre tipped off a little inappropriately into fantasy. The iron-studded wooden doors, flaming pedestals and robed monks that you find within this tiny place peaked my interest just when I was in danger of nodding off. (Just one other point about C230: the Grand Keeper addresses the player as "sir". I doubt that all the people who've played this book are male somehow). I was surprised at the small number of ship-to-ship combats in the book. In my re-play I only had one, but I've flicked through the book to discover that - unless I've missed some - there are only three such battles in the entire text. Surely giving the reader two Smart Missles at the beginning of the adventure was a bit too generous. Lastly, just one piece of silliness that is written into reference 125. Your investigations have finally revealed the location of Babbet's base. Your character's response? "Good-oh!" Um, yes... Topping day, what?
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 5, 2013 12:19:17 GMT
khaxzan:
***SPOILERS AHEAD*** Lastly, just one piece of silliness that is written into reference 125. Your investigations have finally revealed the location of Babbet's base. Your character's response? "Good-oh!" Um, yes... Topping day, what? Ha ha. That's because it's written by Andrew Chapman. The more beautiful and pure FF is – the more satisfying it is to corrupt it.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 5, 2013 12:20:17 GMT
hs5ias:
RoK is a good example of easy book design against hard book design. RoK can be played through and won a wide variety of ways and without needing to make meticulous maps and notes to do so. If you're not a complete spanner or rolled a 1 on your Skill roll you should manage it.
This does cut down the on the involvement and commitment of the book though. Rebel Planet is similar in some ways, being somewhat flexible about paths to success (though radically less so after Halmuris on), but still more difficult and stringent. This gives a better sense of accomplishment at beating the book.
Then there are all the insane FF books that have 'one true path so success'. These can only be beaten with maps and notes. Playing it straight can lead to literally years of frustration.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 5, 2013 12:21:12 GMT
vagsancho:
This is a very good book to me. To me, i prefer ian livingstone and keith martin's style of writing than Andrew Chapman's, however this book is very good and probably the best of Chapman.
I prefer linear books, but this one is non-linear in the way i like, there is no paths doomed to failure. And this is the best Fighting Fantasy book in one point: To the ones who prefer two leaders, the bipolarity of leadership is very well defined.
Razaak's apprentice
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 5, 2013 12:22:18 GMT
vagsancho:
Another thing very good about this book that i want to add to my comment above:
I love when the villain appears to us in the story one time before the final meeting... this idea rarely happens in the fighting fantasy gamebooks!.. but in this one, it happens with both the two villains in two different occasions. Quite good.
Razaak's apprentice
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 5, 2013 12:33:12 GMT
kieran:
Yes I like that aspect too.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 5, 2013 12:33:53 GMT
The planet Kether might be a more realistic/convincing setting than the Vandervecken of Space Assassin was, but it is also a great deal duller too. There's little description to add colour to this world and the cold, soulless illustrations don't help either.
Andrew Chapman is not one of my favourite writers, but, remembering Andrew Champman's books Space Assassin and Rings of Kether I must say that, comparing with other FF books, it appears to me that Chapman got a big disadvantage with his Fighting Fantasy book's ilustrator. Razaak's apprentice
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 5, 2013 12:48:01 GMT
kieran:
I think Space Assassin's illustrations are decent. Rings of Kether's are admittedly dodgy though.
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Post by a moderator on May 24, 2014 13:56:41 GMT
My TUFFF playthrough:
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Jul 23, 2015 15:41:40 GMT
A very good book! But i do not identify myself with this book.
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Post by coppertop71 on May 29, 2016 10:41:47 GMT
Hi, just wondering what people's views are on this book? .. Personally, I've never been a fan of the science fiction themed books but I would say that this is the best of those ones. Although I have the sci fi books in my collection, I rarely play them but "Rings Of Kether" is one I do tend to go back to
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kieran
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Post by kieran on May 29, 2016 11:31:41 GMT
It's quite fun and I like the variety of ways you can play it - you can be a tough Dirty Harry style cop and strongarm everyone, or you can be subtle and sneaky. My only real issue with it is you can pretty much blunder your way to the conclusion, it's perhaps a bit too forgiving.
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Post by Jon on May 29, 2016 12:10:39 GMT
The question of interest that arises is, which level of success do you aim for? The success where you blow up the asteroid base of the drug ring, or the complete success where you capture Blaster Babette?
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Post by a moderator on May 29, 2016 12:38:29 GMT
Despite only being a partial victory, the 'blow up the asteroid' ending has a narrower path than the 'capture Babbet' one.
If we still did the monthly challenge threads, it could be interesting to do one with adventures which include 'lesser' wins and make the objective achieving the inferior success.
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kieran
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Post by kieran on May 29, 2016 12:51:09 GMT
Yes, it took me several attempts to discover the "blow up the asteroid" ending. But capturing Blaster is quite hard to mess up.
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Post by coppertop71 on May 29, 2016 19:46:21 GMT
The whole "you've had your spy ray confiscated" bit used to totally confuse me as a kid thinking I'd missed something. Now I just find it amusing and at least it's not a big problem that affects the story. .. oh well, dunno what a spy ray is, dunno what a spy ray does but they've taken it away from me now anyway! ! I suspect it was probably a replica spy ray anyway as everyone knows how expensive real spy rays are. ...
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Post by coppertop71 on May 30, 2016 11:37:59 GMT
masterchief:
Do you love this book so much you tuck it under the covers at night? Did you hate it so badly you used it as loo-roll? Let the world know!
~MC~ ~ Vae Victis! ~ Mmmm, well I use copies of Sky Lord as loo paper. I have never tried tucking any of the books under the covers but maybe I should try it?
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Post by deadshadowrunner on Jun 2, 2016 6:32:47 GMT
masterchief:
Do you love this book so much you tuck it under the covers at night? Did you hate it so badly you used it as loo-roll? Let the world know!
~MC~ ~ Vae Victis! ~ Mmmm, well I use copies of Sky Lord as loo paper. I have never tried tucking any of the books under the covers but maybe I should try it? Lol.That was just Masterchief's intro for every book thread.
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Post by Citadel1983 on Jun 18, 2016 18:27:31 GMT
I've just played this for the first time and completed it to the page 400 ending on my first try. To be fair I did genuinely roll a Skill 12 Luck 12 and had Weapon Strength 10 and 5 shields so I was expecting to have no problem with combat. I like the blaster combat makes a quicker change than the usual melee, only had one ship battle against the asteroid base, and one hand to hand with the last boss. Overall a decent read but the illustrations were poor and the story not exactly engaging.
A couple of rules questions:
1) Can you use luck in battles? At the start it says combat is the same as previous FF books so skip if you want to but then in the actual hand to hand instructions it doesn't have the 'Using luck in battles' section. (I didn't need it anyway.)
2) Pep Pills can be used at any time. I take it this means also in battle unlike the usual provisions as you can just pop a pill mid shot or punch..?
3) At one point you aquire a grenade which you can use at any time to minus 3D6 worth of stamina from all foes in the room. At the last boss fight It says you grapple with him on the floor and must fight hand to hand. Surely I can't use the grenade then or I'd blow myself to smithereens? Again I didn't need to as I beat him comfortably despite my skill being depleted by two in them cube trap rooms...
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Post by johnbrawn1972 on Jun 18, 2016 21:32:52 GMT
I've just played this for the first time and completed it to the page 400 ending on my first try. To be fair I did genuinely roll a Skill 12 Luck 12 and had Weapon Strength 10 and 5 shields so I was expecting to have no problem with combat. I like the blaster combat makes a quicker change than the usual melee, only had one ship battle against the asteroid base, and one hand to hand with the last boss. Overall a decent read but the illustrations were poor and the story not exactly engaging. A couple of rules questions: 1) Can you use luck in battles? At the start it says combat is the same as previous FF books so skip if you want to but then in the actual hand to hand instructions it doesn't have the 'Using luck in battles' section. (I didn't need it anyway.) 2) Pep Pills can be used at any time. I take it this means also in battle unlike the usual provisions as you can just pop a pill mid shot or punch..? 3) At one point you aquire a grenade which you can use at any time to minus 3D6 worth of stamina from all foes in the room. At the last boss fight It says you grapple with him on the floor and must fight hand to hand. Surely I can't use the grenade then or I'd blow myself to smithereens? Again I didn't need to as I beat him comfortably despite my skill being depleted by two in them cube trap rooms... I suppose it is to my endless regret for the above reasons I stopped buying FF with 15 other than seeing Trial Of Champions one day in WH Smith in 1986. If only my last purchase had been Revenge Of The Vampire.
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Post by deadshadowrunner on Jun 19, 2016 14:42:10 GMT
I've just played this for the first time and completed it to the page 400 ending on my first try. To be fair I did genuinely roll a Skill 12 Luck 12 and had Weapon Strength 10 and 5 shields so I was expecting to have no problem with combat. I like the blaster combat makes a quicker change than the usual melee, only had one ship battle against the asteroid base, and one hand to hand with the last boss. Overall a decent read but the illustrations were poor and the story not exactly engaging. A couple of rules questions: 1) Can you use luck in battles? At the start it says combat is the same as previous FF books so skip if you want to but then in the actual hand to hand instructions it doesn't have the 'Using luck in battles' section. (I didn't need it anyway.) 2) Pep Pills can be used at any time. I take it this means also in battle unlike the usual provisions as you can just pop a pill mid shot or punch..? 3) At one point you aquire a grenade which you can use at any time to minus 3D6 worth of stamina from all foes in the room. At the last boss fight It says you grapple with him on the floor and must fight hand to hand. Surely I can't use the grenade then or I'd blow myself to smithereens? Again I didn't need to as I beat him comfortably despite my skill being depleted by two in them cube trap rooms... To be honest it's not really necessary to scrutinise the rules to such an extent, just go with whatever floats your boat.
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Post by deadshadowrunner on Jun 19, 2016 14:43:50 GMT
I've just played this for the first time and completed it to the page 400 ending on my first try. To be fair I did genuinely roll a Skill 12 Luck 12 and had Weapon Strength 10 and 5 shields so I was expecting to have no problem with combat. I like the blaster combat makes a quicker change than the usual melee, only had one ship battle against the asteroid base, and one hand to hand with the last boss. Overall a decent read but the illustrations were poor and the story not exactly engaging. A couple of rules questions: 1) Can you use luck in battles? At the start it says combat is the same as previous FF books so skip if you want to but then in the actual hand to hand instructions it doesn't have the 'Using luck in battles' section. (I didn't need it anyway.) 2) Pep Pills can be used at any time. I take it this means also in battle unlike the usual provisions as you can just pop a pill mid shot or punch..? 3) At one point you aquire a grenade which you can use at any time to minus 3D6 worth of stamina from all foes in the room. At the last boss fight It says you grapple with him on the floor and must fight hand to hand. Surely I can't use the grenade then or I'd blow myself to smithereens? Again I didn't need to as I beat him comfortably despite my skill being depleted by two in them cube trap rooms... I suppose it is to my endless regret for the above reasons I stopped buying FF with 15 other than seeing Trial Of Champions one day in WH Smith in 1986. If only my last purchase had been Revenge Of The Vampire. You stopped buying FF books because of what Citadel1983 said?
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Post by johnbrawn1972 on Jun 19, 2016 20:49:34 GMT
I suppose it is to my endless regret for the above reasons I stopped buying FF with 15 other than seeing Trial Of Champions one day in WH Smith in 1986. If only my last purchase had been Revenge Of The Vampire. You stopped buying FF books because of what Citadel1983 said? The story and gameplay mechanics seemed naff so I thought FF had died a death. I must have been about 13. I bought 21 when I was 14 out of curiosity.
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vagsancho
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Post by vagsancho on Oct 7, 2019 16:18:48 GMT
I miss a book with two big villains like this one. More even with the characteristic of this book.. Both killed in different moments in different places.
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vagsancho
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Post by vagsancho on Oct 9, 2019 16:27:32 GMT
I miss a book with two big villains like this one. More even with the characteristic of this book.. Both killed in different moments in different places. Yes.. That Zera Gross.. Very good villain.. Very realistic villain.. And also.. That Dinamite Babbet.. A very good villain indeed.. Certainly both of them make the two highest virtues of this book.
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Post by Law on Jun 18, 2020 19:43:06 GMT
I'm ashamed to have read this. This was baaaad.
Space Assassin might be easier but it at least had some charm with its bare bones shop, weapons and armour system. Uninspired boring drivel.
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Post by bloodbeasthandler on Jun 18, 2020 20:29:25 GMT
I've not read it for years, but I have much more favourable recollection of this book. A police investigation into a drug cartel, not knowing who the villains are at the start, not knowing who to trust, a red herring or two, blasters, owning your own spaceship, more than one victory ending, and a car chase.
Rather well done, i thought.
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kieran
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Post by kieran on Jun 18, 2020 21:04:26 GMT
It also plays like a good police procedural at times: you find a lead but your enemy are one step ahead of you and so you have to follow up another
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