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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 11, 2013 19:35:33 GMT
From TUFFF... I've never managed to get very far in this adventure, although I've really enjoyed what I've played. Having said that, it was one of the FF books that I do remember enjoying as I say but for some reason it remains criminally under-played.
What does everyone else think? What do you think of the stats and the archery and the way they are implemented? ~ Vae Victis! ~ |
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 11, 2013 19:36:32 GMT
From TUFFF... How far have you got? I finished this one last week and enjoyed it a lot, especially because you are hopelessly doomed from the start if you miss certain items, and an easily missed item is essential to get another easily missed item which you need to not horribly die later on. Sort of reminds me of Creature of Havoc. |
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 11, 2013 19:37:18 GMT
From TUFFF... The ending of the introductory section is one of FF's greatest moments. |
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 11, 2013 19:39:16 GMT
From TUFFF... The ending of the introductory section is one of FF's greatest moments. Agreed. Made me do a complete double take first time I read it. I think SoS is a very good book all in all. I like the plot and setting and it's very intricately designed - Keith P. Philips is clearly a Steve Jackson fan. I like the way you can think you're on the right track for ages only to find out after a bit of hopeless experimentation that you were barking up the wrong tree all along. There are no unfair dice rolls required either. It has a few minor problems - keeping track of the day of the week is fairly pointless. I've never run out of time and I'm guessing that if you did, you'd have messed something else up anyway. It's also a bit annoying that it punishes you for not knowing stuff your character should know anyway (e.g. should you light a fire at night?). It could also be a bit easier - I don't think the route to victory needed to be quite so narrow as it is. |
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 11, 2013 19:40:45 GMT
From TUFFF... I adore this book. The difficulty is part of the appeal - the true path is very narrow and well-hidden *all* the way through the book. Unlike a lot of other FFs, though, it's not unfairly difficult - it doesn't rely on lucky dice rolls, and the clues you need are all given to you if you look closely enough and think about the decisions you're faced with. Finding a well-hidden true path makes a book far more replayable, which is why Creature Of Havoc is so good. One of my all-time Top Three (alongside Havoc and The Crimson Tide, unsurprisingly). Superb stuff, and it's a pity the author never wrote any others. |
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 11, 2013 19:41:22 GMT
From TUFFF... I really love this book too. the one thing I can think of that annoys me tho is the questionable solution to releasing ISTU. After all, it's not entirely obvious even when you correctly put the cube pieces together. Two Words |
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 11, 2013 19:44:50 GMT
From TUFFF (can't find poster's name)... I had to give up pretty early on this one. I can either summon Istu with the ivory squares I get from the frog people but then it's too late to use it on the mirror demon or I can get to the mirror demon first but then I don't have Istu with me and I have to die horribly. But somehow I am not given the option to do both. Or maybe it's down to my own stupidity. At any rate this is one frustrating book. Funny how you HAVE to fail an agility roll to be able to pick up that silver sword you need to fight the ghost in the tomb. Meaning that if you roll agility 12 (which I did), you're doomed from the start. Will try Spectral Stalkers next. Sounds less headache-inducing that this one. |
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 11, 2013 19:46:26 GMT
From TUFFF... Istu can be summoned as soon as you leave the Slykk. His description mentions his claws are effective as the finest silver sword. You can use him against all creatures that can only be harmed by silver. There is another way you can avoid the tomb ghost. Two Words |
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 11, 2013 21:14:06 GMT
From TUFFF... Yeah I knew I had to find a way to get to that tomb after the encounter with the slykks but somehow I couldn't. Thanks for confirming this is indeed possible, I wasn't sure. This one's turning out to be even more frustrating than Creature of Havoc (or maybe it's just a tad less entertaining) I have to take a break from this book or it'll drive me crazy. Maybe I'll be more inspired when I get back to it. |
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 11, 2013 21:15:36 GMT
From TUFFF... There is, bar a few optional paragraph choices, ONE true way to completing SoS. Unfortunately it involves encountering people and events in a particular order. However, like Black Vein Prophecy, once you do find it, the conclusion becomes all the more satisfying. Mind you, you'll probably find Spectral Stalkers way too easy. Two Words |
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 11, 2013 21:16:16 GMT
From TUFFF... I'll try getting as far as I can without visiting the tomb but it doesn't feel right somehow. It feels like I should be able to go back after my encounter with the frog people. That's the whole point of having Istu with you. |
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 11, 2013 21:17:16 GMT
From TUFFF... I'm not sure but I think you can. The tomb is definitely a place you'll want to visit. Two Words |
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 11, 2013 21:18:23 GMT
From TUFFF... Maybe I didn't solve the Istu puzzle right. I only used three of the six cubes to get to the secret paragraph. I didn't know what to do with the ones with stars on them. But I'd rather give up and come back to it some other time than be given the solution. I still have Spectral Stalkers and Crimson Tide to play. |
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 11, 2013 21:21:47 GMT
From TUFFF... Finally! After much hardship, I’ve reach the end of this new book, victorious. I was warned about it’s difficulty, and it was a fair warning : this is one hard book! Luckily, it is also a great book - most of the time - which makes it’s harshness bearable. It’s still a very naughty book and I’ll explain why, but first thing first.
This is another one of those book with a cover that made me look away when I was young. Another Dracula wannabe? No way, I needed no business with that. Of course, I was wrong with my assumption. Though Les Edwards could have wandered off a bit further away from the big bad vampire stereotype, this is not who it is supposed to be. After all is said and done, I’m still not quite fond of this cover, but I can recognize that it is well done.
Pete Knifton, the inside illustrator, did impress me however. I mostly liked his illos from Tower of Destruction, but was a bit on the fence about a few of them. Here he seemed to have improved his style to a degree not reach before, either because he wasn’t as good, or as I prefer to believe, because he had more time to work on this one. Or maybe he was just more inspired? In any case, job well done. As for the book itself, an interesting story unfolding one step at a time is what makes you come back for more; even though the difficulty to reach the ending here is actually on par with Creature of Havoc. It is also meaner too, because, while CoH kinds of warn you in advance of the harshness of it’s content, putting you in the right frame of mind from the beginning (not really through the background, but the beginning itself) it tells you how hard it’s going to be, and you kind of accept it : after all, you are a crude beast lost in a world where speech and writing is meaningless to you, and where, for a while, you have to rely on luck to keep on going the right way! Players are warned. Not so in Sardath. Past the awesome background, you are left to believe that this is a normal adventure, as seen in so many FF before. You are the typical hero going to make things right by battling evil. That you don’t know what this evil is is just another plot device; some books choose to reveal the enemy from the start, others don’t. Yet this book is not just another ordinary adventure, it is another of those puzzle box meant to be cracked open. The combination code is cleverly hidden throughout the pages, and it will take a while to crack it open, whether you are familiar with the genre or not. Sardath is so insidious in the ways it wants to foil you it even goes so far as giving a major red herring in it’s title. You know, among other things, don’t go to Sardath if you want to succeed, even though on a first time through it would seems like the natural thing to do. There’s probably lots of things I’m forgetting at the moment, insane details putting focus on just how fiendishly designed this gamebook is, but just like the numerous clues, items and red herrings peppering this book, I’m lost and am afraid that if I don’t conclude this review soon, I’ll be forever trapped and unable to figure out what went wrong. Just know that Siege of Sardath is another clever book that I would recommend to every fans out there, but only for those who possess the medallion of uber patience. You will need it. Speak in extremes, it will save you time. |
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 11, 2013 21:29:16 GMT
From TUFFF... Pete Knifton, the inside illustrator, did impress me however. I mostly liked his illos from Tower of Destruction, but was a bit on the fence about a few of them. Here he seemed to have improved his style to a degree not reach before, either because he wasn’t as good, or as I prefer to believe, because he had more time to work on this one. Or maybe he was just more inspired? In any case, job well done. I love the way he draws Dark Elves. The angular nature of his drawings really suits them. Makes sense that he was chosen to illustrate the only two Dark Elf heavy books in the series. Even though the difficulty to reach the ending here is actually on par with Creature of Havoc. It's interesting how similar in style to Steve Jackson's books this one is. Most of the FF authors have their own distinct style, but Keith P. Phillips seems to really seems to dig Steve's techniques of red herring paths and hidden references and in some ways he's actually better at them than Steve. It's a pity he never penned another book as it would be interesting to see if he would find a style of his own or continue to perfect this one. |
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 11, 2013 21:30:44 GMT
From TUFFF... Yes, Keith P. Phillips did a pretty good job at it. Usually, when I pick up a book and notice it's written by a "one time" author, I usually dread the outcome, thinking it will be a bit amateurish.
Obviously, not so here. I also wish he'd written a few more.
Wishful thinking: Wizard, get in touch!! Speak in extremes, it will save you time. |
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 11, 2013 21:33:53 GMT
From TUFFF... I very much liked this one as well, even if it could frustrate at times. As a kid I found some of the puzzles just too difficult, the ISTU puzzle for example - I just didn't think to trace on a bit of paper the squares and then move them around. And I never figured how to get the Mystery Potion. But playing it again I found I could crack the puzzles eventually. The storytelling in this was superb, probably the only gripe I had was the last line of paragraph 400. But can't really say more without throwing a SPOILER for those who haven't finished the book. My FF reviews: z3.invisionfree.com/Orc__Goblin_Warpath/index.php?showtopic=29374 |
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 11, 2013 21:35:03 GMT
From TUFFF... We were really spoiled at that time by getting Moonrunner then this, back-to-back. A great time, shame it went downhill with Island of the Undead. ~ Vae Victis! ~ |
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 11, 2013 21:38:52 GMT
From TUFFF... I think this is a really good, but very tricky and underrated later FF gamebook. I remember buying this towards the end of the first series run, and I gave up when I kept dying at Sardath, just thinking it wasn't very good. Playing it again now - and much older too! - its really engaging, and similar to Jackson's Creature of Havoc, as others have noted. If you avoid Sardath at all costs and go up in to the Mountains, it gets really good later on. What I like the most is that it has a really 'live' feel to it. You aren't just on a conventional kill the baddie, or survive the dungeon crawl quest. This one has things going on in the background all the time - the ongoing siege of Sardath with the days counting down, the flying Slyks that can be observed from different locations.... The red herrings and obscurity of the true path. This one is really worth getting hold of if you're a hardcore gamer. I even found it hard to cheat! Took me ages to work out about Istu, and getting the right potion combination so you can camouflage yourself in the later stages. All really good ideas, and felt like a worthy successor to C of H, as Jackson was no longer writing these any more. Highly Recommended. |
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Dec 11, 2013 21:40:55 GMT
From TUFFF... Pretty much agree with all of that (though I think the ISTU puzzle is a bit too nasty). It's a pity Keith P Phillips didn't do any more, he's an excellent gamebook designer - the Morn Preeler fight in particular is brilliant. Apart from the ISTU puzzle, my only other real criticism is that it scolds and punishes you for doing things every ranger should know not to (e.g. lighting a fire at night, mishandling bloodweed). Well, guess what I'm not actually a ranger and if my character should know better, why the heck was I even given an option? Pretty minor point, but one that grinds my gears. |
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Post by a moderator on May 24, 2014 12:11:33 GMT
My TUFFF playthrough:
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Post by CharlesX on Aug 18, 2022 22:11:02 GMT
Haha I get the thread necromancy warning but Siege Of Sardath definitely doesn't deserve one.
One of my memories of Siege is the powerful Demon Pnea whom if you enter into combat alone with (this being seriously off the true path) you die with the words something like "He\it turns on you, rending you to pieces in seconds as you do not have a magic weapon". I always found it scary and creepy as a kid that you just "don't get" any chance at all. It's something I can take in Siege because it fits in with the dark, neo-Gothic atmosphere of the gamebook - it's also probably less unsettling than the cursed items and instant deaths more common in Ian Livingstone FF.
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Post by slloyd14 on Aug 19, 2022 8:52:45 GMT
Wow, absolutely. Until today, no one else had mentioned it.
Difficult book, but there are helpful clues everywhere.
I'm trying to remember if it might be possible with minimum stats - there's a skill 10 opponent but you can get a damage boost and maybe a helper can be with you at that stage? I can't remember.
Great puzzles and set pieces.
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Post by terrysalt on Aug 19, 2022 9:28:41 GMT
Wow, absolutely. Until today, no one else had mentioned it. Difficult book, but there are helpful clues everywhere. I'm trying to remember if it might be possible with minimum stats - there's a skill 10 opponent but you can get a damage boost and maybe a helper can be with you at that stage? I can't remember. Great puzzles and set pieces. Champskees puts the odds of winning with minimum stats as 13.9%. |
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Post by slloyd14 on Aug 19, 2022 10:14:20 GMT
Wow, absolutely. Until today, no one else had mentioned it. Difficult book, but there are helpful clues everywhere. I'm trying to remember if it might be possible with minimum stats - there's a skill 10 opponent but you can get a damage boost and maybe a helper can be with you at that stage? I can't remember. Great puzzles and set pieces. Champskees puts the odds of winning with minimum stats as 13.9%. I guess that you don't have a friend by then. |
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Post by slloyd14 on Sept 19, 2022 19:23:42 GMT
The podcast with Alison Cybe and myself discussing it is now up!
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revenant
Squire
Posts: 21
Favourite Gamebook Series: Zork (just kidding)
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Post by revenant on Sept 30, 2022 10:41:47 GMT
The podcast with Alison Cybe and myself discussing it is now up! Subbed! |
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