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Post by bloodbeasthandler on Jan 23, 2021 15:11:28 GMT
Naturally there were plenty of ‘find and kill the baddie’ plots within FF, whether it be kill the wizard and take his treasure [FF1] or track down the war criminal and bring him to justice [FF48]. Or go and find the item [FF3].
But what would you have liked to have seen more of?
Some ideas from me:
Murder mysteries and 'whodunnits' where there are clues and the reader must use deductive reasoning.
Missions along the lines of FF29 where something is to be stolen, where there's stealth-based gameplay, and avoidance of combat is encouraged.
Playing the baddie... or an anti-hero more like Elric of Melnibone.
Being on the run and avoiding capture, like Flight From the Dark.
Court intrigue and diplomacy set in a city somewhere on Titan, like Overlord! from Way of the Tiger, or At the Court of King Minos.
Any thoughts?
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Post by Law on Jan 23, 2021 15:22:13 GMT
My favourite fan-made Fighting Fantasy is still 'Outsider', where you play a ruthless knife-for-hire/psionic in a bustling Old World city.
In it, you have no over-arching objective but just to survive and thrive and it is chock-full of alternative endings. A kind of dark variation on "a slice-of-life".
Adventures where world-building and a profession to fulfil take the fore; where the golden ending and even the mission itself, is not readily apparent.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,462
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Jan 23, 2021 15:31:54 GMT
I'd like to see a less half-hearted version of Starship Traveller where your crew have distinct personalities and sometimes disagree with you and one another.
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Post by Law on Jan 23, 2021 15:42:07 GMT
I'd like to see a less half-hearted version of Starship Traveller where your crew have distinct personalities and sometimes disagree with you and one another. This, only in the Age of Sail. Wooden ships and iron men. Or hell, sky-privateers and give us command of CoH's Galleykeep. |
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Post by sleepyscholar on Jan 23, 2021 16:21:06 GMT
Back in the day I'd probably have gone with the 'edgy' options, but now I find that rather dull.
The mystery option was a good one. I did actually pitch a gamebook series called 'Sleuth' that would have been exactly that. Can't remember who I pitched it to (probably Puffin, idiot that I was), but after I got no response I stupidly failed to send it to other publishers.
I think there were plenty of fairly obvious movie tropes ripe for exploitation. The one of mine that got cut off when the real series ended was based on a typical FF-style plot -- go and rescue the princess from the evil sorcerer -- which then turned into something else, because the princess had actually fled to the sorcerer on her own initiative, and the real villains were the bastards who had employed you, and who were intending for you to be the fall guy for their power grab. I used to get in to this kind of plot, but then allow myself to get distracted by silliness (in this case by an extended underground section trying to escape from a civilisation of creatures who required droning sound to survive...).
Wooden Ships and Iron Men is a good idea -- in fact there are a lot of historical possibilities that would be good. I liked the Virtual Reality Down Among The Dead Men for that reason.
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Post by philsadler on Jan 23, 2021 16:23:12 GMT
I would pay good money for a sequel to Midnight Rogue. It was nice not to be a hero/goody for once. It was also nice that the whole world was not at stake.
As for other ideas; a race against time could be good as long as it used some sort of actual mechanic, and used it well so that you genuinely had to think.
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Post by tyrion on Jan 23, 2021 16:48:00 GMT
I'd like to see an extra-planar adventure, where you travel across the planes encountering ridiculously powerful beings that would make razaak look like a weakling. Just for a change from orcs and zombies.
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Post by dragonwarrior8 on Jan 23, 2021 17:18:54 GMT
Totally agree with the murder mystery angle. Any gamebook that starts off with a good mystery already has me hooked as even after failure I want to re-start again right away to try and solve what happened.
Otherwise I would have loved to have seen more Earth-set Indiana Jones style of adventures. I thought Terrors Out of Time from the Forbidden Gateway series was great at this and I had a blast.
And not that it would fit into FF but I have always wanted to play a gamebook as a WW1 flying ace. Hunt down the Red Baron or something.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,462
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Jan 23, 2021 17:53:23 GMT
It's pretty much a dead genre now (unless you count Star Wars), but I would love a sword-and-planet setting for a gamebook. Closest think I can think of is RL Stine's Hark gamebooks which are kinda fun, but it would be cool to see one get the full FF treatment.
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Post by vastariner on Jan 23, 2021 18:55:25 GMT
The one FF gamebook idea I had was that you were a fresh Brician army recruit. You could have ended up with two separate paths - one to get promoted within the army; one to escape to a less hardline society.
A knowledge quest might have been interesting. Trying to find a new spell by getting some component that was impossible to find. I suppose a bit like the antherica line in Scorpion Swamp but the idea would be that you had no idea what you were actually looking for, only that there were gold rush type rumours that whatever it was, it was in a specific area.
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Post by linflas on Jan 23, 2021 22:20:47 GMT
Time travel maybe ? Ok, there's Crown of Kings, but it could be applied to many places and genres, even Starship Traveller. (omg, 100 posts, i am Traveller  ) |
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Post by sleepyscholar on Jan 24, 2021 1:53:43 GMT
As for other ideas; a race against time could be good as long as it used some sort of actual mechanic, and used it well so that you genuinely had to think. You're not wrong there... |
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Post by sleepyscholar on Jan 24, 2021 1:58:27 GMT
I'd like to see an extra-planar adventure, where you travel across the planes encountering ridiculously powerful beings that would make razaak look like a weakling. Just for a change from orcs and zombies. Coming this summer: Master of the Abyss, sequel to the highly-regarded British table condiment Slaves of the Abyss, in which YOU get to explore the extra-dimensional realms of the Abyss and beyond, made possible only by Steve Jackson's insistence that Lord God Almighty should show up and give you treasure. |
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Post by sleepyscholar on Jan 24, 2021 2:05:49 GMT
The one FF gamebook idea I had was that you were a fresh Brician army recruit. You could have ended up with two separate paths - one to get promoted within the army; one to escape to a less hardline society. I like that one. Full Metal Hauberk.One idea I had shortly after doing Slaves of the Abyss was a gamebook in which part of it was a battle between armies. I had some neat ideas for mechanics on how to pull that one off. I may have mentioned the idea to someone (without explaining the mechanics), which was probably a mistake. |
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Post by petch on Jan 24, 2021 9:43:39 GMT
The one FF gamebook idea I had was that you were a fresh Brician army recruit. You could have ended up with two separate paths - one to get promoted within the army; one to escape to a less hardline society. I like that one. Full Metal Hauberk.One idea I had shortly after doing Slaves of the Abyss was a gamebook in which part of it was a battle between armies. I had some neat ideas for mechanics on how to pull that one off. I may have mentioned the idea to someone (without explaining the mechanics), which was probably a mistake. If I'm reading your inference right here, I just hope that the concept that you mentioned didn't include the idea that it would be good to include a protracted self indulgent in-joke about boating. |
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Post by tyrion on Jan 24, 2021 10:30:25 GMT
I like that one. Full Metal Hauberk.One idea I had shortly after doing Slaves of the Abyss was a gamebook in which part of it was a battle between armies. I had some neat ideas for mechanics on how to pull that one off. I may have mentioned the idea to someone (without explaining the mechanics), which was probably a mistake. If I'm reading your inference right here, I just hope that the concept that you mentioned didn't include the idea that it would be good to include a protracted self indulgent in-joke about boating. And a pie eating contest. |
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Post by sleepyscholar on Jan 24, 2021 11:39:10 GMT
If I'm reading your inference right here, I just hope that the concept that you mentioned didn't include the idea that it would be good to include a protracted self indulgent in-joke about boating. And a pie eating contest. Funnily enough, the only concept I had in mind -- having been a wargamer before I got into role-playing games -- was that of rendering a battle in terms of crucial (interesting) decisions. For some reason, though, I haven't read the book to which I think you are both alluding. |
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Post by petch on Jan 24, 2021 12:51:12 GMT
And a pie eating contest. Funnily enough, the only concept I had in mind -- having been a wargamer before I got into role-playing games -- was that of rendering a battle in terms of crucial (interesting) decisions. For some reason, though, I haven't read the book to which I think you are both alluding. Aah, okay. It was Livingstone's Armies of Death we were referring to; as it was released shortly after Slaves I thought you were hinting that Ian had pinched your idea! |
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Post by sleepyscholar on Jan 24, 2021 15:19:22 GMT
Funnily enough, the only concept I had in mind -- having been a wargamer before I got into role-playing games -- was that of rendering a battle in terms of crucial (interesting) decisions. For some reason, though, I haven't read the book to which I think you are both alluding. Aah, okay. It was Livingstone's Armies of Death we were referring to; as it was released shortly after Slaves I thought you were hinting that Ian had pinched your idea! The point I was making was not that I didn't know which book you were referring to (which was indeed a book published after Slaves, and written by someone to whom I may have mentioned my idea for an army book: in fact I think I was going for a separate mini-series). It was that I didn't read that book. It was annoying enough that my idea had been gazumped (whether based on what I said, or independently conceived); I didn't want to read the book and discover it had been done badly. |
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Post by petch on Jan 24, 2021 17:27:22 GMT
Aah, okay. It was Livingstone's Armies of Death we were referring to; as it was released shortly after Slaves I thought you were hinting that Ian had pinched your idea! The point I was making was not that I didn't know which book you were referring to (which was indeed a book published after Slaves, and written by someone to whom I may have mentioned my idea for an army book: in fact I think I was going for a separate mini-series). It was that I didn't read that book. It was annoying enough that my idea had been gazumped (whether based on what I said, or independently conceived); I didn't want to read the book and discover it had been done badly. Sorry, with you, my original inference was on the right lines then! As for how well done the idea was: I think the book's placement in the rankings thread tells you all you need to know. I think it's fair to say that reading it wouldn't make you feel much better...file under 'uninspired'. |
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Post by a moderator on Jan 24, 2021 17:30:31 GMT
The third part of the White Dwarf-published FF mini-adventure The Dark Usurper commenced with a sequence involving battling armies, during which strategic decisions played a part.
The adventure doesn't have a lot to recommend it, IMO, but it did at least handle mass battles better than AoD would.
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Post by Wilf on Jan 24, 2021 20:18:09 GMT
Love the idea of a murder mystery gamebook.
Can someone suggest Poirot to Jonathan Green for a future ACE title?
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Post by a moderator on Jan 24, 2021 23:09:35 GMT
Stephen Thraves' Murder in the Dark is a murder mystery gamebook. It's one of the 'solve the puzzle to make the right decision' type, but the gimmick that makes it possible to have a different guilty party on subsequent attempts (while keeping every individual playthrough internally consistent) is fairly neat.
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Post by sleepyscholar on Jan 24, 2021 23:56:21 GMT
The third part of the White Dwarf-published FF mini-adventure The Dark Usurper commenced with a sequence involving battling armies, during which strategic decisions played a part. The adventure doesn't have a lot to recommend it, IMO, but it did at least handle mass battles better than AoD would. Yeah, but that was White Dwarf. You don't think Ian Livingstone read that, do you? |
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Post by schlendrian on Jan 25, 2021 7:42:56 GMT
I'd like to see a less half-hearted version of Starship Traveller where your crew have distinct personalities and sometimes disagree with you and one another. This, only in the Age of Sail. Wooden ships and iron men. Or hell, sky-privateers and give us command of CoH's Galleykeep. I didn't know how much I needed this until you wrote it!
"Now you have all the evidence you need. Will you
-gather everyone in the great hall and spend half an hour explaining your reasoning, turn to x
-simply report the murderer to the police, turn to xx"
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Post by petch on Jan 25, 2021 15:58:00 GMT
I'd like to see a post-apocalytic FF. Something darker and grittier than Freeway Fighter, I mean, where the object is simply survival.
I'd like Cormac McCarthy to write an FF is basically what I am saying.
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Post by bloodbeasthandler on Jan 25, 2021 17:00:53 GMT
Love the idea of a murder mystery gamebook. Can someone suggest Poirot to Jonathan Green for a future ACE title? Good idea. He likes his Victoriana so a Holmesian mystery should be doable and enjoyable for him to write. |
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Post by bloodbeasthandler on Feb 1, 2021 16:26:03 GMT
The one FF gamebook idea I had was that you were a fresh Brician army recruit. You could have ended up with two separate paths - one to get promoted within the army; one to escape to a less hardline society. I like that one. Full Metal Hauberk. Sergeant H'artumaan drills the new intake of the Kallamehr City Guard. |
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Post by bloodbeasthandler on Feb 1, 2021 17:54:43 GMT
Recruit of Havoc  "Legionnaire Pyle!..You climb obstacles like rhinomen fornicate! ... And if I find 4 STAMINA points' worth of provisions in your footlocker again, you will be doing the slopping out for the Mucalytics for a MONTH!" |
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Post by dragonwarrior8 on Feb 2, 2021 20:33:50 GMT
Stephen Thraves' Murder in the Dark is a murder mystery gamebook. It's one of the 'solve the puzzle to make the right decision' type, but the gimmick that makes it possible to have a different guilty party on subsequent attempts (while keeping every individual playthrough internally consistent) is fairly neat. Interesting. Awhile ago I actually found myself wondering if a gamebook where the murderer is randomized from playthrough to playthrough would be possible. Is Murder in the Dark particularly rare for some reason? I dont see a copy of it for sale online, anywhere. Normally even the rarest books are available somewhere (if even with sky high prices). I played a murder mystery gamebook called "Hard-Boiled" awhile back. You play as a 1940s Los Angeles detective and there are three separate cases to solve. You go around collecting clues and then take a quiz at the end to see if you can solve the case. The 40's detective slang goes a little over the top at times but overall it wasnt bad, although not what I would call great either. Because there is no randomization there is obviously no replayability though. |
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