Per
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Post by Per on Oct 15, 2023 22:11:09 GMT
This is a thing similar to Petch's Fighting Fantasy rankings and My Fighting Fantasy Rankings. I can't do a full set of rankings because I haven't read all books and also I haven't really thought about ranking similarly rated books relative to each other, so I'm presenting them grouped by the 10-step rating scale inherited from Dave Holt's AFF website. I originally posted the reviews on the Yahoo Gamebooks and FFG lists in the noughties, many years ago when none of you people were probably even born etc., and they can still be found in archived or mirrored versions of my defunct reviews archive, but I have no idea how many people actually visit those. It might be fun to see how well my general views align with prevailing sentiments. Ratings are unchanged, nothing has been added to the quotes, though a lot has been trimmed, and there's been some very light editing for flow. Since the lower steps are less densely populated, here are 1-3 all at once. 1Sky Lord"The one thing you can't fault Sky Lord for is the background. Pretty much everything else you can fault Sky Lord for. Whatever you happen to be doing, you will find that choices are uninformed and random and death awaits everywhere. Readers will tire of stumbling helplessly into indistinctly motivated instant deaths long before they near the end of the book and its amusing twist. Sky Lord is essentially bug-free and that's rare I suppose, but one could just as well say that the way it's constructed is a big bug in itself. To some extent I can see what Allen was going for, and two or three sequences are all right in themselves, but all the same this is easily the worst designed and least playable Fighting Fantasy gamebook I've read." 2Starship Traveller"Exciting? Not quite. Few of the planets are actually that original or interesting. Your own actions most often involve stumbling blindly into some kind of trouble and then getting out of it, leaving you with little or no sense of accomplishment. The art does absolutely nothing to add any atmosphere to the proceedings, mostly depicting nondescript landscapes, nondescript spaceships, nondescript people in space suits doing nondescript things, and occasionally a grumpy alien or two." Crypt of the Sorcerer"As you set out on the quest to find the magic sword, there is something of an epic sense to it all. A long string of mostly unconnected and unfairly dangerous encounters later, having visited locations which are nowhere near as atmospheric as the mist-shrouded hills, little remains of this feeling. Crypt of the Sorcerer is quite simply a shining example of how not to orchestrate an item hunt. It has the disconnectedness and linearity of Island of the Lizard King coupled with the stiffness and severity of Trial of Champions, and yet the comparison is unfair to either of the other books." Eye of the Dragon"In no small part thanks to Martin McKenna's illustrations, it might seem at first that Eye of the Dragon would have a shot at the same 4 out of 10 rating I've given to the previous two Livingstone titles. But then, the pervading laziness, the unnecessary paperwork, the sections wasted on unlikely and pointless happenings, and various other failings all weigh in the other direction, and rather make me wonder if I've been too generous in the past." 3Scorpion Swamp"It's a failed experiment that should never have survived past the concept stage, that runs counter to the spirit of Fighting Fantasy and instead tries to be more like a computer or board game. Moreover, you get absolutely no sense at all of being in a swamp, let alone a preposterously dense and deadly one. Many of the encounters are utterly disappointing and just consist of some slice of animal or plant life which you must kill or avoid. Overall, a waste of a decent title and a good cover beastie." Midnight Rogue"As it turns out, half of the book is pretty much a lost opportunity, as instead of the alleys and houses of Port Blacksand you find yourself in a dungeon which, apart from the flavour of the special skills, could have been set anywhere and been explored by anyone. On top of that, what we see of the flip side of PB is limited to two straight-up burglary jobs and a little tinsel on the side; the streets are strangely lifeless. Sadly I get the impression that Midnight Rogue was a left-handed job done without much thought given to how the various design elements actually work, let alone how they work together."
Most likely the biggest mismatch with public opinion here would be Scorpion Swamp. Saying it shouldn't have been released as designed is perhaps a bit harsh, but I still feel its design deviates too much from the basic FF formula, and also that it's not a huge success even judged by its own design goals. They could have made it #1 in a new line of books in which I would have had a lower baseline interest.
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Post by vastariner on Oct 15, 2023 23:18:05 GMT
When Scorpion Swamp came out of course there WAS no basic FF formula, as such - we'd had a sci-fi book, one with magic, and no real sense that everything was happening in the same universe. I recall when buying it the one thing that jarred was the absolute insistence on mapping the route, which isn't really necessary, but again the whole interactive fiction was a new thing.
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Post by CharlesX on Oct 16, 2023 8:48:54 GMT
Giving Midnight Rogue 3 seems harsh as well, because its 'generic' dungeon is populated with interesting, original encounters and a powerful endgame (you might say, Eye of The Dragon done right). Yes, I'm a fan, but OTOH I think for the well-designed dungeon and well-written world it deserves a 4 if not higher. And to me a few errors and some difficulty is off-set by good illustrations and some humour. Scorpion Swamp wasn't as ambitious as other FF and I enjoyed it enough as a young person. "Never have survived past the concept stage" is probably harsh, as gamebooks go Scorpion Swamp seems OK.
I don't think there was enough material to do that, though.
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Post by scouserob on Oct 16, 2023 9:46:09 GMT
Nice one. I enjoy these ranking/opinion threads so thanks for taking the time to do one of your own Per. 👍🏼 As these are from the noughties, does that mean there will be no Scholastic titles (or Blood of the Zombies) included, or are you going to add some of those in? Most likely the biggest mismatch with public opinion here would be Scorpion Swamp. Saying it shouldn't have been released as designed is perhaps a bit harsh, but I still feel its design deviates too much from the basic FF formula, and also that it's not a huge success even judged by its own design goals. They could have made it #1 in a new line of books in which I would have had a lower baseline interest.
Poor Scorpion Swamp. 😂 That is a mismatch. (With my personal opinion, at least.) I've mentioned in the Scorpion Swamp threads how much fun I found it to play, replay, and delve into the mechanics of, so I won't repeat that here. Then again, I find the difference in opinions in these lists as much fun as the reinforcing agreements, so I look forward to more of both as the countdown (countup?) continues...
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Post by CharlesX on Oct 16, 2023 11:23:13 GMT
1Sky Lord"The one thing you can't fault Sky Lord for is the background. Pretty much everything else you can fault Sky Lord for. Whatever you happen to be doing, you will find that choices are uninformed and random and death awaits everywhere. Readers will tire of stumbling helplessly into indistinctly motivated instant deaths long before they near the end of the book and its amusing twist. Sky Lord is essentially bug-free and that's rare I suppose, but one could just as well say that the way it's constructed is a big bug in itself. To some extent I can see what Allen was going for, and two or three sequences are all right in themselves, but all the same this is easily the worst designed and least playable Fighting Fantasy gamebook I've read." I'm not sure that I agree, I think the background is as 'bad LSD trip' as the rest.
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Post by petch on Oct 16, 2023 14:52:53 GMT
Most likely the biggest mismatch with public opinion here would be Scorpion Swamp. Saying it shouldn't have been released as designed is perhaps a bit harsh, but I still feel its design deviates too much from the basic FF formula, and also that it's not a huge success even judged by its own design goals. I usually find that those opinions that jar with the prevailing consensus the most are the most fun to read. I like Scorpion Swamp, but you've most certainly put forward the case against it well. As someone who missed your reviews the first time around, I'm looking forwards to reading the rest of your thoughts. Keep it up Per!
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Per
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Post by Per on Oct 16, 2023 19:33:27 GMT
When Scorpion Swamp came out of course there WAS no basic FF formula, as such - we'd had a sci-fi book, one with magic, and no real sense that everything was happening in the same universe. I recall when buying it the one thing that jarred was the absolute insistence on mapping the route, which isn't really necessary, but again the whole interactive fiction was a new thing. It's entirely possible that if the book itself hadn't drawn attention to the artificiality of the clearing grid, but had just pushed the structure into play sort of like the maze in Warlock, I wouldn't have had quite the same negative reaction to that particular element. I can understand that the way it was done is more upfront and helpful about the need for the player to record or remember which clearings have been visited in the current game. Robot Commando takes a more subtle approach, possibly? Giving Midnight Rogue 3 seems harsh as well, because its 'generic' dungeon is populated with interesting, original encounters and a powerful endgame (you might say, Eye of The Dragon done right). Yes, I'm a fan, but OTOH I think for the well-designed dungeon and well-written world it deserves a 4 if not higher. And to me a few errors and some difficulty is off-set by good illustrations and some humour. The closing paragraph of the full review actually continues, "Certainly I'd have given it one or two more points had I simply tossed it back on the book pile after my first game, but [...]" then goes on to rant about some more particulars. There should probably be a link to the reviews archive so people can go and check the full reviews if they like, since they often contain musings and complaints which don't lend themselves to being included in these summaries. I don't think there was enough material to do that, though. Presumably in this alternate universe there'd have been editorial measures beyond just declaring a second spinoff series and then crickets, such as keeping writers in basements with tall and short cages. As these are from the noughties, does that mean there will be no Scholastic titles (or Blood of the Zombies) included, or are you going to add some of those in? I've acquired Port, Gates and Assassins more recently, but other than that my latest books are Eye, Bloodbones and Howl, so no Night of the Necromancer, no Saga of the Stormchaser, no Wizard Slayer. In any case the titles that may be most deserving of a review and which I've already had a go at include Puffin books like Moonrunner, Portal of Evil and The Crimson Tide. Holy non-reprint, Batman. As someone who missed your reviews the first time around, I'm looking forwards to reading the rest of your thoughts. Keep it up Per! In addition to book FF, my original reviews included the Anniversary Yearbook, about half of the Warlock adventures, two of the Proteus ersatz FFs, most Virtual Reality (already reposted here), Forbidden Gateway (ditto), an AD&D book, some amateur adventures, the 2008 and 2009 Windhammer entries plus Sea of Madness, and maybe some other odd and end. Ah, yes, The Trolltooth Wars. Most of them can be reposted on request.
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Post by scouserob on Oct 16, 2023 19:49:10 GMT
I’d be interested in reading some reposted reviews.
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Per
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Post by Per on Oct 16, 2023 20:08:12 GMT
And now for some of those books which aren't great, but which aren't super bad either. But they're a bit bad.
4
Seas of Blood "I will say straight away that I did not find Seas of Blood particularly charming or exciting. The flow of events is often random, sketchy and mechanical. The different levels of design conspire to make you feel like something less than a renowned and resourceful raider on top of his profession. Seas of Blood is simply poorly written. It's dull and uninspired, and there are so many examples of lazy and nonsensical design as well as wasted opportunities for flavour."
Armies of Death "The book just doesn't feel that long, and the head villain will not make the Hall of Fame. Pretty middling as Livingstone item hunts go, and that in itself is a bit limiting, but at least it's a step forward from Crypt of the Sorcerer."
Freeway Fighter "The art is just ridiculous, having no style and no life whatsoever. Freeway Fighter is by no means a triumph of imagination or storytelling, but not completely without merits. It's an attempt to exploit a new setting, even if it settles for mindless trigger-happy action in lieu of creative vision."
Spellbreaker "The writing is actually pretty good and brings the book's motifs to life. In spite of all the detours, there's a strong sense of continuity lacking in many other books. Yeah, and Spellbreaker is a pretty crappy book all the same. The secret is contrived and unfair design, lots of it. In summation, Spellbreaker contains lots of atmospheric writing, shifting backdrops and savoury encounters, laid low by some of the crappiest gamebook design I've seen."
Phantoms of Fear "There are a few nice mood-setting spots here. Randomness soon sets in, though. Winning is mostly a process of trial and error. You may be able to find a relatively simple (and largely unsatisfying) route to victory by making a brash assumption or two, but the "advanced" solution is somewhat obscure and potentially frustrating not least because you don't actually know what you're hoping to accomplish. So, it's a nice attempt at doing many things at once. But, there's the niggles."
Return to Firetop Mountain "What's the point of even having it be Firetop Mountain if you're mostly going to fill it with new stuff? One thing I do know: the new areas are nowhere near inventive enough to warrant dedication of this one-of-a-kind sequel to them. Overall I was disappointed, in spite of modest initial expectations. Because of these and many other flaws that make completion of the book into a very mechanical task, Return to Firetop Mountain cannot earn a higher grade than Armies of Death, even though I think it is on the whole a little better."
Star Strider "The string of European cities you pass through on your search tend to dissolve into lots of brief excursions and happenings, many of which are really bland and involve random robots or random pairs of tunnels, doors, ladders or other types of passages. The vast majority derive no special flavour from their location. Star Strider takes a good, simple premise and then makes something very unexciting out of it, casting you as a bounty hunter whose greatest skill is plodding around and inviting fatality from all directions."
I ended up feeling a little guilty about my dismissive tone regarding the writing and construction of Seas of Blood, though I probably stand by the gist of it. Chapman was gracious about it, though (as were Jonathan Green and Paul Mason, though it perhaps seemed like it would be a bit easier for them since usually people would praise aspects of their books while criticizing others).
As noted in my Eye review, Armies should perhaps have been dropped a point.
For some reason I seem to remember rating Spellbreaker a 3, but if I ever did, evidently I upped it at some point. Also Robert La Vallie in his 10/10 review claimed to have beaten the book in three hours of play, so clearly it's possible to have a positive gameplay experience with it, he wouldn't lie about that.
I'm guessing Phantoms of Fear is this batch's best mismatch candidate. Look, Mrs Giggles hates elves, I rest my case.
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Post by vastariner on Oct 16, 2023 20:21:00 GMT
You've probably sussed by now (if you didn't know before) that the artwork for Freeway Fighter was a last-minute rush job.
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kieran
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Post by kieran on Oct 16, 2023 20:42:53 GMT
no Saga of the Stormchaser Stormslayer is actually a reworking of the previously proposed FF 'Eye of the Storm' rather than 'Saga of the Stormchaser' which sadly remains unpublished. Interestingly, Green had already re-used many of the ideas from 'Eye of the Storm' for one of his Sonic the Hedgehog gamebooks.
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Post by CharlesX on Oct 17, 2023 10:24:48 GMT
Giving Midnight Rogue 3 seems harsh as well, because its 'generic' dungeon is populated with interesting, original encounters and a powerful endgame (you might say, Eye of The Dragon done right). Yes, I'm a fan, but OTOH I think for the well-designed dungeon and well-written world it deserves a 4 if not higher. And to me a few errors and some difficulty is off-set by good illustrations and some humour. The closing paragraph of the full review actually continues, "Certainly I'd have given it one or two more points had I simply tossed it back on the book pile after my first game, but [...]" then goes on to rant about some more particulars. There should probably be a link to the reviews archive so people can go and check the full reviews if they like, since they often contain musings and complaints which don't lend themselves to being included in these summaries. I did read your full review, but I suspect we just have a slight difference of opinion. Most of the 'errors' in Midnight Rogue do not fundamentally affect gameplay (cosmetic, if I were to be generous about it) in the way a string of linking errors would or those as heavy as say Tower Of Destruction (in my opinion). The gamebook design obviously isn't particularly fair (although that's only the sort of thing later done with Siege Of Sardath's brain slayer amulet). What a scrupulous player could do is 'house rule' to give the Quartz Golem a free attack round or free strike in the hypothetical scenario you do not have the stone axe equipped. But I say these sorts of things as someone keen on Midnight Rogue, so for me amending even some of these errors would alter my opinion of Midnight Rogue from 5 out of 10 to something distinctly above-average.
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Post by CharlesX on Oct 17, 2023 12:31:59 GMT
Spellbreaker"The writing is actually pretty good and brings the book's motifs to life. In spite of all the detours, there's a strong sense of continuity lacking in many other books. Yeah, and Spellbreaker is a pretty crappy book all the same. The secret is contrived and unfair design, lots of it. In summation, Spellbreaker contains lots of atmospheric writing, shifting backdrops and savoury encounters, laid low by some of the crappiest gamebook design I've seen." For some reason I seem to remember rating Spellbreaker a 3, but if I ever did, evidently I upped it at some point. Also Robert La Vallie in his 10/10 review claimed to have beaten the book in three hours of play, so clearly it's possible to have a positive gameplay experience with it, he wouldn't lie about that. I'm guessing Phantoms of Fear is this batch's best mismatch candidate. Look, Mrs Giggles hates elves, I rest my case. Cough * because Spellbreaker is ridiculously hard * cough.
Your review mentions a difficulty level "competing with Crypt Of The Sorceror" (which it definitely is) - allowing for the missing surrender option the difficulty level is increments above Crypt Of The Sorceror. For me, all the punishing constantly Test-Your-Faith-or-eventually-die, get maximum gold, and 50-50 life-or-death chance, detracted totally from what would otherwise have been an enjoyable adventure (actually similar to what you've written).
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Per
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Post by Per on Oct 17, 2023 19:10:45 GMT
I’d be interested in reading some reposted reviews. I noticed some of my Warlock reviews had already been posted, so I dug out the rest of them. Feel free to PM me with requests for any other stuff that it might be interesting to discuss. I figured that since they've been available, bumping all the individual book threads was unnecessary (also some of the early reviews of titles I read before joining the Yahoo mailing list are a bit bland). Maybe the narrative version of my Sky Lord review, since that wasn't in the archive? You've probably sussed by now (if you didn't know before) that the artwork for Freeway Fighter was a last-minute rush job. Yup, I'm pretty sure it was mentioned on the mailing list and I later made a passing reference to it in my review of Rings of Kether.
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Per
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Post by Per on Oct 17, 2023 19:21:26 GMT
At this level, books are largely guilty of being bland.
5
The Forest of Doom "It wasn't until I re-mapped this a couple of years after playing it for the first time that I actually got any sense of being in a forest. The encounters are typically brief "fight or flight" scenarios or the equivalent thereof. The illustrations don't contribute to any deep, dark forest atmosphere, instead they are often horrible."
Island of the Lizard King "I don't know if the problem is that the setting Livingstone chose to exploit for this one is too uninteresting, or if the encounters are just too routine in their design. Alan Langford is a competent illustrator, but few of the images here seem memorable to me."
Trial of Champions "Yes, the new Trial of Champions is challenging, but that doesn't necessarily equal inspiring. Where it fails to live up to the premise is in conjuring up an atmosphere and making you feel like you're "there". Although it's not the equal of Deathtrap Dungeon in any way except for difficulty, Trial of Champions still works as a tough nut for diehard maze-loving FF readers."
Tower of Destruction "Pete Knifton's art is strictly average by FF standards. Tower of Destruction has its memorable parts, but is short-lived and consigned by its many bugs to mediocrity."
Space Assassin "There's little tension involved as the main character just sort of wanders off at random, finding himself in a Firetop Mountain or Darkwood Forest of the future. Overall the art is OK, although the pieces are off-format, and some are intensely dull. Space Assassin is fun while it lasts and does evoke the early days of FF. Minus some padding and some unfair deaths, it could have been better."
Chasms of Malice "The briefness of the proceedings coupled with brutal intrusions of gamebook logic can sometimes leave you wondering what's going on. People who want a coherent, uninterrupted story out of a gamebook will find Chasms of Malice dry and tediously belligerent. People who like something to chew on will, I think, be intrigued by the richness of paths until they reach the Chase, after which point instant deaths become a nuisance, experimentation is discouraged, the book starts to wear out its welcome, and eventual triumph is likely to have degraded into a feeling of release. Plenty of idiosyncratic detail scattered among the deadfalls and crossbow traps, though, and not every book has that."
Stealer of Souls "Keith Martin's first FF book is somewhat deservedly regarded as a "back to basics" adventure. One way in which it is not like the early FF books is that there aren't really any mutually exclusive stretches, so if you really want to, you can go through almost every encounter in the book in one game. This is a convenient design if you like to play through an adventure just once or twice and then happily feed it to rats, but it also seems rather lazy."
Difficulty aside Trial isn't terrible, but unlucky not to be awarded nostalgia points like some books that still remain to be listed.
Tower stands out a bit among these titles for being ambitious, but flawed.
Reading the summary for Chasms you wouldn't really expect I'd rate it a 5! I guess there's stuff in it that I like, including Russ's artwork.
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Post by CharlesX on Oct 17, 2023 19:37:58 GMT
Thank you for your latest update Per Jorner!
As someone who sometimes enjoys FF more for gameplay and description than things like narrative and originality I would have given Stealer Of Souls a higher score and Chasms Of Malice a lower score. As someone who points out errors etc. in gamebooks, I'm slightly surprised you didn't mention the ambiguity in Stealer Of Souls where you can simply cast the Speed Spell after going up the stairs, contrary to the gamebook's wording, making the endgame a little easy.
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Post by a moderator on Oct 17, 2023 21:31:20 GMT
Maybe the narrative version of my Sky Lord review, since that wasn't in the archive? You mean this one? I don't suppose you still have a copy of your original Seas of Blood review? The one you wrote without having read the book, for a joke, which so completely took in someone on the Yahoo! group that they made a post arguing that you'd been unduly harsh on the middle of the adventure?
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Post by King Gillibran on Oct 18, 2023 7:35:02 GMT
At this level, books are largely guilty of being bland. Island of the Lizard King"I don't know if the problem is that the setting Livingstone chose to exploit for this one is too uninteresting, or if the encounters are just too routine in their design. Alan Langford is a competent illustrator, but few of the images here seem memorable to me." Most of these I agree with in part but Island of the Lizard King being boring is not one of them. It comes high up in my personal rankings, higher even than City of Thieves. I love the island and lizard men really capture my imagination especially with Langfords wonderful illustrations. It was one of my first books and one of my first I beat. It and Deathtrap Dungeon used to be the two I would do over and over, back when I only had 1-8, which lasted a long time. It is still one of my favourites. Keep up the rankings though. I am thouroughly enjoying them!
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Post by scouserob on Oct 18, 2023 9:12:38 GMT
Island of the Lizard King"I don't know if the problem is that the setting Livingstone chose to exploit for this one is too uninteresting, ... I love the setting, it is very Edgar Rice Burroughs. The three, Doug McClure starring, film adaptations were on TV a lot growing up. [The Land (and People) That Time Forgot haven't aged well, but I found At the Earth's Core to still be great fun when watching it with my lads recently.] The prehistoric island with jungle, volcano, dinosaurs and (relatively) primitive humans is just like The Land That Time Forgot. The hero leading slaves, forced to work in a mine, in revolt against their brutish humanoid masters is just like At the Earth's Core. Fire Island also reminds me, a little, of the Lost Valley of the Dinosaurs board game of which I have very fond memories of. This line from the rules is great: "Pteranodons had no teeth - they have been added so that they can pick up the explorers a little easier."
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Per
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Post by Per on Oct 18, 2023 18:11:08 GMT
Thank you for your latest update Per Jorner! As someone who sometimes enjoys FF more for gameplay and description than things like narrative and originality I would have given Stealer Of Souls a higher score and Chasms Of Malice a lower score. As someone who points out errors etc. in gamebooks, I'm slightly surprised you didn't mention the ambiguity in Stealer Of Souls where you can simply cast the Speed Spell after going up the stairs, contrary to the gamebook's wording, making the endgame a little easy. It should absolutely be expected I haven't found and/or listed every bug or logical gap, especially when you have to take into account a context bigger than one or a few paragraphs, such as in this case. Ed's playthroughs will typically list a bunch of quirks and glitches I missed, and for instance I'm not sure it occurred to me just how bizarre it is that the protagonist of Temple makes a random beeline for Vatos until it was pointed out in the "Turn to 400" playthrough (which has a particularly suitable format for highlighting that kind of thing). Maybe there should be some kind of bug repository where glitches are compiled from every review, playthrough and discussion thread. It could be annotated like some kind of Gamebook Tropes: Swords Are The Best Climbing Gear: Skill bonuses meant for combat make you generally more heroic and help you scale walls and dodge traps Share What Little You Don't Have: the book says you hand out much needed Provisions, but you may not have any Etc.
Maybe the narrative version of my Sky Lord review, since that wasn't in the archive? You mean this one? That's the one, though it appears to have lost a number of line breaks. I don't suppose you still have a copy of your original Seas of Blood review? The one you wrote without having read the book, for a joke, which so completely took in someone on the Yahoo! group that they made a post arguing that you'd been unduly harsh on the middle of the adventure? I cracked open an Outlook Express database file for the first time since forever, finding the review and reply in question in among Leigh calling me an "EVIL PSEUDO-SWEDE" and other things I had managed to forget. I'll post them in the thread which bears my name. Fire Island also reminds me, a little, of the Lost Valley of the Dinosaurs board game of which I have very fond memories of. This line from the rules is great: "Pteranodons had no teeth - they have been added so that they can pick up the explorers a little easier." That's one I played 30+ years too late - presumably when I was about 10 I wouldn't have reflected on things like the Pteranodon figure and its nest serving no mechanical function in the game whatsoever.
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Per
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Post by Per on Oct 18, 2023 18:34:26 GMT
Depending on how you view ratings scales, this might be the first "respectable" rung or the "damning with faint praise" rung.
6
City of Thieves "City of Thieves is another typical Ian Livingstone offering, which takes you on a pretty linear journey through a certain environment and throws at you a number of separate and structurally simplistic encounters appropriate for that setting. On the plus side, this book features the art of the brilliant Iain McCaig."
Demons of the Deep "Demons of the Deep has a promising setting, some good ideas and cute moments, but is marred slightly by the confusing area progression and the ending's lack of focus. Neither bad nor unmissable."
Sword of the Samurai "Authors Smith and Thomson have a fine way of painting a vivid picture with just a few words, which lends a special lustre to several encounters. Traversing the countryside of Hachiman was for me far more entertaining than the Hub part or what comes after it. One could complain that in all there aren't too many different encounters, but then again, what I like here I like a lot."
Appointment with F.E.A.R. "Steve Jackson once again created something original with a high puzzle factor. For all its 440 sections it doesn't rank among his best titles; apprehending the criminals isn't always very satisfying in itself, and finding the right clues is mostly a process of trial and error. There's not much in the way of pervading atmosphere, unless you count the general "golden age" cheesiness of the villains and their schemes. But there's still some fun to be had, at least if you're into superhero comics, and the book is certainly a fine technical accomplishment."
Dead of Night "The setting and range of enemies are different from usual and I liked the approach, although upon winning I felt slightly disappointed. Sword of the Samurai would make a decent analogy: detailed and flavorous encounters make the book seem short, then you get whisked around a bit, and at the end there's an anticlimactic boss fight."
Black Vein Prophecy "Mason's and Williams' second FF title again comes with an unusual depth of story and distinction of ideas, leaving many answers out of reach even when you're finished with the book. Although I find the ambition and writing admirable, BVP is not as effective as its forerunner at carving a solid playing experience out of its concept, and I am fraught with ambivalence."
Fangs of Fury "All things considered I was positively surprised, since Luke Sharp doesn't generally seem to get the best reviews. His style is a bit choppy, but not bad, and every so often it works to his advantage. David Gallagher is similarly not the most talented of the FF art crew, but he gets the job done. I still think FoF is a good little book with lots of nice touches and humourous details. It's simply packed chock-full with stuff."
The Keep of the Lich-Lord "Despite the number of paragraphs used for each major encounter it shouldn't take a lot of time to figure them out, and since ultimately there aren't too many, replayability suffers. In the end, though, the way the mechanics come into play simply isn't the book's strong suit. The world design and writing are. The adventure's open and generous structure, with no particular significance ascribed to any of the options, and the way you can quickly stumble across an easy way of winning, simply mean the book is not as meaty or challenging as it could have been. It's still worth the ride for the writing, though, which is head and shoulders above some of the more insipid contributions to the series."
Siege of Sardath "Altogether I found Siege of Sardath to be a mixed bag. In the end, the adventure falls a bit short of the threshold of excellence; its good sides are just about enough to balance the problems. If Keith P. Phillips is not a pseudonym and this is his first and only gamebook then it's a good effort, but there's also room for improvement."
Talisman of Death "Talisman of Death arguably set a new standard in FF for plot development and dialogue. It is not at all bad at what it does well. Unfortunately many paragraphs are used on largely unnecessary branches or needless near-duplication of sections. The writing and originality - in FF terms, at any rate - are still enough for a respectable score, but there are somewhat similar titles in the series that get more mileage out of the same number of paragraphs."
The Rings of Kether "The variety of paths gives the book good replay value, and also means you can role-play to some extent. The style and dialogue snippets fit the subject well, at times bordering on hard-boiled. On the other hand the book is let down by silliness in its "dungeon" segments and overall forgettability."
Daggers of Darkness "The plot in Daggers of Darkness is well above average for Fighting Fantasy. The book feels underdesigned and underdeveloped, relying in large part on routine (even if it's not the worst routine) and falling well short of its potential. For every somewhat flavourful passage there is an equal and opposite piece of insipid handwaving. I believe Daggers of Darkness could have been a cut above the rest of Sharp's books, but ultimately it is trapped in the same formulaic design. Martin McKenna's art however does not disappoint."
Rebel Planet "Even if you overlook the ultimate breakdown of the book's basic premise, the harshness and randomness of the second half suffice to drag the score down from commendable to average. This still leaves points for ambition, world building and some humour. Gary Mayes provides the art, which is not without merits, but doesn't work so well overall."
The Seven Serpents "The Seven Serpents is back to being a transition stretch, and not an overly interesting one, I'm sorry to say. Come on, you can do more than this with 498 sections; it has been proved. Although the book is technically competent, it lacks even the basic development and closure that you'll find in a "crossing the wilderness" book such as Daggers of Darkness, with only a slight threat escalation towards the end. In summation, another perfectly functional Sorcery! title, but a bit of a disappointment in the bigger picture."
I don't think that today I'd choose "the ending's lack of focus" to list as a primary flaw of Demons of the Deep, but I'm not sure the rating is off, at least not by more than a point.
Putting two Luke Sharp titles at this level may be a little atypical. I seem to remember on the Yahoo mailing lists, Simon Osborne was the resident champion of Sharp's books, proving the rule.
Apparently there's a fan theory that Siege was written by Steve Jackson UK, was anything conclusive ever found out about that? It's certainly inspired by his books if nothing else but I didn't get the impression it was written by the same guy. I could see it if is was perhaps outlined by Jackson and then written out by Sargent or someone who only uses Keith for pseudonyms.
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Post by a moderator on Oct 18, 2023 18:37:20 GMT
I don't suppose you still have a copy of your original Seas of Blood review? The one you wrote without having read the book, for a joke, which so completely took in someone on the Yahoo! group that they made a post arguing that you'd been unduly harsh on the middle of the adventure? I cracked open an Outlook Express database file for the first time since forever, finding the review and reply in question in among Leigh calling me an "EVIL PSEUDO-SWEDE" and other things I had managed to forget. I'll post them in the thread which bears my name. On the off-chance that those things you had managed to forget include your plans for tying up the 'Pandoroid' path's side of the boss fight in Yellow Snow III, I shall direct your attention towards this thread.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Oct 18, 2023 19:08:47 GMT
One of the lowest ratings I've seen for Dead of Night.
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trialmaster
Wanderer
Enter your message here...
Posts: 62
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Post by trialmaster on Oct 18, 2023 19:32:53 GMT
I and plenty of others on this forum can confirm that Keith P.Phillips is definitely a real person as he was there in person at FF Fest 4 last year and he signed my copy of Siege of Sardath!
I have to disagree with the relatively low rating of City of Thieves as I think it is full of atmosphere as I have mentioned before and one of the most enjoyable to play in the series. For IL it actually isn't that linear with at least 3 different routes through the city in the 1st half of the book.
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Post by CharlesX on Oct 18, 2023 20:19:42 GMT
Depending on how you view ratings scales, this might be the first "respectable" rung or the "damning with faint praise" rung. 6Putting two Luke Sharp titles at this level may be a little atypical. I seem to remember on the Yahoo mailing lists, Simon Osborne was the resident champion of Sharp's books, proving the rule. I don't know whether you mean atypical in the sense of too generous or too harsh, and to add to the confusion I have neither heard of Simon Osborne nor know what you mean by the words "proving the rule" (because the opinion of a single person online surely doesn't count for that much, whether or not they have some following). Luke Sharp is more well-know for Daggers Of Darkness and Fangs Of Fury than Star Strider and Chasms Of Malice, which were forgettable and arguably failures. His more popular FF had very good concepts (other things, like his writing style, perhaps weren't so good), but I and I think most people tend to judge by results, and his gamebooks just weren't epic or thrilling in the way others have been. Yes, it's subjective, as some people are keen on sci-fi FF, Keith Martin and Robin Waterfield, and others think they're completely rubbish.
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Post by vastariner on Oct 18, 2023 23:35:48 GMT
Apparently there's a fan theory that Siege was written by Steve Jackson UK, was anything conclusive ever found out about that? Given that Keith Phillips was at FFest talking about Siege, and why it was his only gamebook, then if he was an actor playing the role of Steve's alter ego, a) he did a damn fine job and b) Steve is a genius at long-term payoffs.
I thought it was great he was there - even though he only had one book in canon, he wasn't left behind, so to speak, as a one-off aberration, but a proper part of the FF omniverse.
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Post by outspaced on Oct 19, 2023 9:06:24 GMT
Depending on how you view ratings scales, this might be the first "respectable" rung or the "damning with faint praise" rung. 6Putting two Luke Sharp titles at this level may be a little atypical. I seem to remember on the Yahoo mailing lists, Simon Osborne was the resident champion of Sharp's books, proving the rule. I don't know whether you mean atypical in the sense of too generous or too harsh, and to add to the confusion I have neither heard of Simon Osborne He is like a finger pointing away to the moon. Don't concentrate on the finger, or you will miss all that heavenly glory.
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Post by slloyd14 on Oct 19, 2023 15:36:20 GMT
I don't know whether you mean atypical in the sense of too generous or too harsh, and to add to the confusion I have neither heard of Simon Osborne He is like a finger pointing away to the moon. Don't concentrate on the finger, or you will miss all that heavenly glory. I think that Daggers and Fangs are very similar gamebooks and I agree that they would get the same scores - you travel the land, being whisked from one random encounter to another, you have a time limit, there's loads of "roll 2 dice and if the numbers match, something bad happens" situations and the path to victory is quite loose. I think a 6 is a pretty fair score for them - I found them fun, quite random, sometimes with unfair dice rolls, but quite forgiving in terms of choices. Is Simon Osborne the guy who wrote Assassin in Orlandes for Tin Man Games back in 2008? I just looked him up and he also did the Outspaced shrine fightingfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Simon_Osborne
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Post by schlendrian on Oct 19, 2023 16:57:08 GMT
At this level, books are largely guilty of being bland. Island of the Lizard King"I don't know if the problem is that the setting Livingstone chose to exploit for this one is too uninteresting, or if the encounters are just too routine in their design. Alan Langford is a competent illustrator, but few of the images here seem memorable to me." Most of these I agree with in part but Island of the Lizard King being boring is not one of them. It comes high up in my personal rankings, higher even than City of Thieves. I love the island and lizard men really capture my imagination especially with Langfords wonderful illustrations. It was one of my first books and one of my first I beat. It and Deathtrap Dungeon used to be the two I would do over and over, back when I only had 1-8, which lasted a long time. It is still one of my favourites. Keep up the rankings though. I am thouroughly enjoying them! Adding to that the big battle in the end is a really well done climax and the cyclops one of the most memorable images in the series!
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Per
Traveller
AHAHAHA!
Posts: 152
Favourite Gamebook Series: Morris VR, some FF, Chalk LW
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Post by Per on Oct 19, 2023 17:21:15 GMT
I cracked open an Outlook Express database file for the first time since forever, finding the review and reply in question in among Leigh calling me an "EVIL PSEUDO-SWEDE" and other things I had managed to forget. I'll post them in the thread which bears my name. On the off-chance that those things you had managed to forget include your plans for tying up the 'Pandoroid' path's side of the boss fight in Yellow Snow III, I shall direct your attention towards this thread. Noooooooo I'll be doomed I still have a rain-damaged rough map of the paths through the first half of the adventure within arm's reach, but I can't remember offhand what the shapes and numbers signify. You had the letter hunt? Was being doomed a win condition, or a hazard, or both? I'm scared. I and plenty of others on this forum can confirm that Keith P.Phillips is definitely a real person as he was there in person at FF Fest 4 last year and he signed my copy of Siege of Sardath! Neat! As I understood (or misunderstood) the discussion I stumbled on, the theory was based at least partially on a supposed statement from Steve that he'd written FF using a pseudonym, but they could have been smoking something, or I could have been smoking something. Depending on how you view ratings scales, this might be the first "respectable" rung or the "damning with faint praise" rung. 6Putting two Luke Sharp titles at this level may be a little atypical. I seem to remember on the Yahoo mailing lists, Simon Osborne was the resident champion of Sharp's books, proving the rule. I don't know whether you mean atypical in the sense of too generous or too harsh, and to add to the confusion I have neither heard of Simon Osborne nor know what you mean by the words "proving the rule" (because the opinion of a single person online surely doesn't count for that much, whether or not they have some following). I mean that in the (more original?) sense of the expression "the exception proves the rule", i.e. if something can be identified as an exception it indicates the existence of a general rule, or in this case, if the same person is always the one to say Luke Sharp undeservedly got a bad rap when the subject comes up, one can suspect most others think it's kiiinda deserved? But, who knows. Given that Keith Phillips was at FFest talking about Siege, and why it was his only gamebook, then if he was an actor playing the role of Steve's alter ego, a) he did a damn fine job and b) Steve is a genius at long-term payoffs. :D I thought it was great he was there - even though he only had one book in canon, he wasn't left behind, so to speak, as a one-off aberration, but a proper part of the FF omniverse. Yeah, if the Puffin line had continued they should have given him a few more books. He didn't spill any gossip about what everybody's plans were at the time and their dealings with the publisher? Being approached for reprints or not? Is Simon Osborne the guy who wrote Assassin in Orlandes for Tin Man Games back in 2008? Nobody knows, it is a mystery etc.
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