Per's Fighting Fantasy capsule reviews and ratings

[Per]

These books are good. Surely they are?

7

The Warlock of Firetop Mountain
"Replaying it now, the encounters seem a little like standard fare compared to later books. All told, WoFM is something of a classic, suitable for beginners, quite charming in places."

Caverns of the Snow Witch
"Ian Livingstone has done a good job of cramming this relatively small dungeon full of items to be collected and creatures to be thwacked; anyone who likes his style will not be disappointed. However, after this section ends and the villain has been slain, the book becomes a little less charming and more linear, almost strained in parts. Difficulty aside, one area where I must say CotSW succeeds admirably is in creating an epic span of time and space."

Temple of Terror
"I really like the art for some reason. Whether you'll like this depends on how you feel about Ian Livingstone adventures in general. Like City of Thieves and Deathtrap Dungeon, this one has character."

Masks of Mayhem
"Russ Nicholson's art for this book is quite simply up there with the best gamebook art I've seen. I also fell for the overall mood of the setting. I really wish there weren't much more to add, but FF23 has one drawback: it's annoyingly difficult in ways that bring the dreaded Crypt of the Sorcerer to mind. I suppose the measure of a book is whether you want to go at it again and again, and I did. Whatever you think of difficult books, this is definitely worth reading for the art and atmosphere and details."

Beneath Nightmare Castle
"More work could have been done on the unsettling atmosphere part - the art helps a little with that, but showing slightly cartoonish monsters up front, especially when you're about to read a paragraph saying the game is already over, won't really rattle the older segments of the audience. As one can see there are opportunities for niggling for those so disposed; yet BNC earns high points for ambition, ambience and general fun-ness. In fact I wish there had been more convoluted "mystery" books like this."

The Shamutanti Hills
"Echoing several reviewers before me, I could sum up the first book by saying it is short, comparatively easy, and a suitable introduction to the series. In the end I think The Shamutanti Hills stops at being "just" a good gamebook. It presents a likeable backwater territory, keeps you on your toes with choices, is not tacky or obnoxious, and tosses in the occasional Easter egg. At the same time it is often random, sketchy or fussy and descriptions are brief, relying on the illustrations and your imagination to fill in extensive gaps."

Kharé - Cityport of Traps
"In fact, my greatest beef with the book is perhaps nothing to do with the city or quest but that it represents such a break with the difficulty level of the first one. It can't be denied there's a lot to stumble into, even if you may not come across all of it, and it's certainly not every day you find a book so vigorously pushing the envelope of gamebook design. It is what it is, and it's quite true to its concept. I would still have liked to see more stuff, more paths, and especially more flavour; Kharé doesn't quite come alive for me."


So, Caverns and Temple and perhaps Warlock probably each got at least one point for nostalgia. Though I've pronounced the odd scathing judgement upon a Livingstone title myself, it can be a little jarring to read for instance Mrs Giggles's brutal evaluation of Caverns. Clearly though it's possible to be fond of these things in spite of their faults. Except of course for Crypt. That does not happen.

Masks is probably another of those titles some people hate for being arbitrarily, unfairly difficult, but I feel it could have been a highest-tier FF if this and that were fixed, so it only drops to about here.

[a moderator]

Oct 19, 2023 17:21:15 GMT Per said:

Oct 18, 2023 18:37:20 GMT a moderator said:

On the off-chance that those things you had managed to forget include your plans for tying up the 'Pandoroid' path's side of the boss fight in Yellow Snow III, I shall direct your attention towards this thread.

Noooooooo I'll be doomed

I still have a rain-damaged rough map of the paths through the first half of the adventure within arm's reach, but I can't remember offhand what the shapes and numbers signify. You had the letter hunt? Was being doomed a win condition, or a hazard, or both? I'm scared.

I'll pick this up in the relevant thread.

[slloyd14]

Oct 19, 2023 17:38:09 GMT Per said:

So, Caverns and Temple and perhaps Warlock probably each got at least one point for nostalgia. Though I've pronounced the odd scathing judgement upon a Livingstone title myself, it can be a little jarring to read for instance Mrs Giggles's brutal evaluation of Caverns. Clearly though it's possible to be fond of these things in spite of their faults. Except of course for Crypt. That does not happen.

Masks is probably another of those titles some people hate for being arbitrarily, unfairly difficult, but I feel it could have been a highest-tier FF if this and that were fixed, so it only drops to about here.

I've quickly gone over Mrs Giggles' review scores for the FF series (here: mrsgiggles.com/category/gamebook-reviews/series-fighting-fantasy/) and she has some scores that are pretty different to a lot of people here. 

Firstly, she is pretty tough. I think 3 oogies from her out of 5 is pretty good.

Secondly, she loves horror and Asian themes, probably adding 1 oogie on if a book has those themes in them.

Thirdly, she thinks that Jonathan Green hates his readers and sets brutal books, only 2 of which she gave more than 1 oogie to.

She has several books I would say are classics that she has given low scores to and vice versa. 

If no one has seen her reviews, they are worth a read - she has reviewed all of FF and lots of other gamebooks.

[King Gillibran]

Oct 19, 2023 17:38:09 GMT Per said:

These books are good. Surely they are?

7

The Warlock of Firetop Mountain
"Replaying it now, the encounters seem a little like standard fare compared to later books. All told, WoFM is something of a classic, suitable for beginners, quite charming in places."

Caverns of the Snow Witch
"Ian Livingstone has done a good job of cramming this relatively small dungeon full of items to be collected and creatures to be thwacked; anyone who likes his style will not be disappointed. However, after this section ends and the villain has been slain, the book becomes a little less charming and more linear, almost strained in parts. Difficulty aside, one area where I must say CotSW succeeds admirably is in creating an epic span of time and space."

Temple of Terror
"I really like the art for some reason. Whether you'll like this depends on how you feel about Ian Livingstone adventures in general. Like City of Thieves and Deathtrap Dungeon, this one has character."

Masks of Mayhem
"Russ Nicholson's art for this book is quite simply up there with the best gamebook art I've seen. I also fell for the overall mood of the setting. I really wish there weren't much more to add, but FF23 has one drawback: it's annoyingly difficult in ways that bring the dreaded Crypt of the Sorcerer to mind. I suppose the measure of a book is whether you want to go at it again and again, and I did. Whatever you think of difficult books, this is definitely worth reading for the art and atmosphere and details."

Beneath Nightmare Castle
"More work could have been done on the unsettling atmosphere part - the art helps a little with that, but showing slightly cartoonish monsters up front, especially when you're about to read a paragraph saying the game is already over, won't really rattle the older segments of the audience. As one can see there are opportunities for niggling for those so disposed; yet BNC earns high points for ambition, ambience and general fun-ness. In fact I wish there had been more convoluted "mystery" books like this."

The Shamutanti Hills
"Echoing several reviewers before me, I could sum up the first book by saying it is short, comparatively easy, and a suitable introduction to the series. In the end I think The Shamutanti Hills stops at being "just" a good gamebook. It presents a likeable backwater territory, keeps you on your toes with choices, is not tacky or obnoxious, and tosses in the occasional Easter egg. At the same time it is often random, sketchy or fussy and descriptions are brief, relying on the illustrations and your imagination to fill in extensive gaps."

Kharé - Cityport of Traps
"In fact, my greatest beef with the book is perhaps nothing to do with the city or quest but that it represents such a break with the difficulty level of the first one. It can't be denied there's a lot to stumble into, even if you may not come across all of it, and it's certainly not every day you find a book so vigorously pushing the envelope of gamebook design. It is what it is, and it's quite true to its concept. I would still have liked to see more stuff, more paths, and especially more flavour; Kharé doesn't quite come alive for me."


So, Caverns and Temple and perhaps Warlock probably each got at least one point for nostalgia. Though I've pronounced the odd scathing judgement upon a Livingstone title myself, it can be a little jarring to read for instance Mrs Giggles's brutal evaluation of Caverns. Clearly though it's possible to be fond of these things in spite of their faults. Except of course for Crypt. That does not happen.

Masks is probably another of those titles some people hate for being arbitrarily, unfairly difficult, but I feel it could have been a highest-tier FF if this and that were fixed, so it only drops to about here.

I kind of like Crypt for the plot and characters and terrifying baddy if not for actually playing it.

[King Gillibran]

Oct 19, 2023 21:07:57 GMT slloyd14 said:

Oct 19, 2023 17:38:09 GMT Per said:

So, Caverns and Temple and perhaps Warlock probably each got at least one point for nostalgia. Though I've pronounced the odd scathing judgement upon a Livingstone title myself, it can be a little jarring to read for instance Mrs Giggles's brutal evaluation of Caverns. Clearly though it's possible to be fond of these things in spite of their faults. Except of course for Crypt. That does not happen.

Masks is probably another of those titles some people hate for being arbitrarily, unfairly difficult, but I feel it could have been a highest-tier FF if this and that were fixed, so it only drops to about here.

I've quickly gone over Mrs Giggles' review scores for the FF series (here: mrsgiggles.com/category/gamebook-reviews/series-fighting-fantasy/) and she has some scores that are pretty different to a lot of people here. 

Firstly, she is pretty tough. I think 3 oogies from her out of 5 is pretty good.

Secondly, she loves horror and Asian themes, probably adding 1 oogie on if a book has those themes in them.

Thirdly, she thinks that Jonathan Green hates his readers and sets brutal books, only 2 of which she gave more than 1 oogie to.

She has several books I would say are classics that she has given low scores to and vice versa. 

If no one has seen her reviews, they are worth a read - she has reviewed all of FF and lots of other gamebooks.

I have just read over some of her reviews and man they were not pleasent to read.

She definitely doesn't like Ian or Jonathan saying the only gamebook writer worse than Ian is Jonathan. Wince.

She was clear that she hated most of their books and was positive that everyone did.

Another thing I noticed was that unlike some reviewers like Malthus Dire she didnt do her reseach very thouroughly. With the Legend of Zagor review she mentioned that the wizard from Allansia Gareth was useless and was almost as bad as Yaztromo which was amusing because Gareth is Yaztromo. Also in Legend of Zagor she mentioned that while Ian had tried something different he still was no where near as good as people like Kieth Martin. Hmm. Legend of Zagor was written by Kieth Martin.

Some of the most painful reviews for me where almost all of J Greens ones. I love Night and Bloodbones and really like most of his others and seeing them being written describing how bad it was is hard. I also didnt like most of the Ian livingstone reviews.

I also got the general gist that she disliked FF in general because most are below average and thought most gamebooks where better. FF created the Gamebook Genra.

Yeah I am never reading her reveiws again.

Ill stick with Malthus Dire.

[kieran]

I used to enjoy reading (and frequently disagreeing with) Mrs Giggles' reviews but these days her site seems to flag as malware.

[kieran]

Oct 20, 2023 7:47:53 GMT King Gillibran said:

FF created the Gamebook Genra.

Choose Your Own Adventure, Tunnels and Trolls and the odd little experiment preceded it, Endless Quest launched about the same time. FF is probably responsible for making the concept super popular though, at least in the UK. CYOA was probably bigger in the US and worldwide.

[slloyd14]

Oct 20, 2023 8:51:15 GMT kieran said:

I used to enjoy reading (and frequently disagreeing with) Mrs Giggles' reviews but these days her site seems to flag as malware.

She hasn't reviewed a gamebook for a while anyway. There are a few Usborne puzzle adventures from 2022 but it is mainly romance and Marvel TV shows at the moment.

[a moderator]

Oct 20, 2023 8:56:45 GMT kieran said:

Oct 20, 2023 7:47:53 GMT King Gillibran said:

FF created the Gamebook Genra.

Choose Your Own Adventure, Tunnels and Trolls and the odd little experiment preceded it, Endless Quest launched about the same time. FF is probably responsible for making the concept super popular though, at least in the UK. CYOA was probably bigger in the US and worldwide.

Tracker Books also preceded FF. Not sure a series of 12 gamebooks published over the course of almost a decade constitutes a 'little experiment'.

[kieran]

Oct 20, 2023 11:59:59 GMT a moderator said:

Oct 20, 2023 8:56:45 GMT kieran said:

Choose Your Own Adventure, Tunnels and Trolls and the odd little experiment preceded it, Endless Quest launched about the same time. FF is probably responsible for making the concept super popular though, at least in the UK. CYOA was probably bigger in the US and worldwide.

Tracker Books also preceded FF. Not sure a series of 12 gamebooks published over the course of almost a decade constitutes a 'little experiment'.

Good call - never heard of them!

[a moderator]

Oct 20, 2023 13:30:21 GMT kieran said:

Oct 20, 2023 11:59:59 GMT a moderator said:

Tracker Books also preceded FF. Not sure a series of 12 gamebooks published over the course of almost a decade constitutes a 'little experiment'.

Good call - never heard of them!

They're pretty basic - the ones I've encountered all have just 40 sections, they tend to be quite linear, and they involve no stats or dice. Still, the sneaky way the author concealed the route to the best ending in Codebreaker made enough of an impression to inspire one of the ways to beat Return to the Icefinger Mountains.

[Per]

Oct 20, 2023 7:20:43 GMT King Gillibran said:

I kind of like Crypt

Foul creature of destruction!

Oct 20, 2023 14:20:15 GMT a moderator said:

Oct 20, 2023 13:30:21 GMT kieran said:

Good call - never heard of them!

They're pretty basic - the ones I've encountered all have just 40 sections, they tend to be quite linear, and they involve no stats or dice. Still, the sneaky way the author concealed the route to the best ending in Codebreaker made enough of an impression to inspire one of the ways to beat Return to the Icefinger Mountains.

No doubt the one I didn't find. :|

[Per]

8

The Citadel of Chaos
"In my younger days I didn't much like this one compared to Warlock of Firetop Mountain. It was too non-linear, too non-heroic, too weird and too oppressive. Since then I've come to find a better appreciation of its approach, its slyness, its array of bizarre creatures and the way you interact with them. It's different, spooky, wicked and good."

House of Hell
"Most importantly it sets out to take full advantage of the gamebook format. One disappointment of House of Hell is that it never managed to give me anything resembling a real life Fear point. To sum up, it's an entertaining read and a recommended title."

Spectral Stalkers
"Peter Darvill-Evans has prepared a different experience without losing his grip on the FF fundamentals. The worlds in which you make brief sojourns are darkly entertaining, though of necessity lacking in depth. Spectral Stalkers makes 400 paragraphs go a long way. It's painless and inspiring."

Slaves of the Abyss
"The uncovering of the plot is well paced, leading first to a sense of mystery and then to one of urgency. In summation, this is one of my favourite FFs so far, thanks to its eye towards storytelling and striking detail. In my view titles like this and Spectral Stalkers are proof that although the FF system was designed with a plotless dungeon crawl in mind, it can be used to frame a wide range of moods and stories."


There should be nothing very controversial here.

[CharlesX]

House Of Hell gave me Fear points - the cages, the terrifying illustration of the Hell Demon along with its actions, but then maybe I'm more one for subtlety than Hellraiser and Hollywood (referencing your review). I guess it doesn't leave quite as strong an impression, that way or otherwise, as Creature Of Havoc.

[Per]

9

Deathtrap Dungeon
"Deathtrap Dungeon for me probably more than any other book embodies the spirit of what Fighting Fantasy is all about. It's challenging enough that you'll probably keep at it until you win, and it's got an ending which is almost fair. To sum it up, Deathtrap Dungeon is a true classic."

Creature of Havoc
"Creature of Havoc impressed me in several ways. It's certainly the most technically clever gamebook I've ever read, what with the code and all the secret references. It also sports an unusual premise and a good backplot overall. Make no mistake: this is an excellent book, displaying a wealth of ideas, creepiness and irony. A lot of thought and care has gone into this one."

Legend of the Shadow Warriors
"The flavour of the writing and encounters attests nicely to Hand's ambitions, as does the general design. Legend of the Shadow Warriors isn't perfect, but excellent all the same. With balanced enemies, more interesting than usual encounters, solid writing, several fall-down funny moments and firmly above average drawings, there isn't a lot in LotSW that doesn't click. I enjoyed this book a lot and rate it a significant gamebook accomplishment."


I think these are all common list-toppers also. You could maybe say that Deathtrap on close inspection begins to show some of Ian's idiosyncrasies, such as the stretch where he puts a string of encounters on the true path with mostly crickets if you miss it.

And that's it, as I didn't rate any book a 10. Here's a mid-thread poll for what to do next:

[ ] Fantazine adventures played in order
[ ] Scholastic book playthroughs
[ ] Review more Puffin books like Tide or Portal
[ ] Revisit Twist of Fate and wrap up VR
[ ] No, do a Narnia book
[ ] No, Shinderg's Tomb
[ ] Other

[a moderator]

I'd prefer one of:
[ ] Fantazine adventures played in order
[ ] Review more Puffin books like Tide or Portal
[ ] Revisit Twist of Fate and wrap up VR

[kieran]

Would be up for any of those, but I think it would be a shame not to finish reviewing the Puffin books.

[CharlesX]

I vote chiefly more Puffin FF, with Scholastic FF if you have time, and Twist Of Fate and VR as well. Slightly prosaically my basis is I'm interested in very mainstream FF - and I read and like VR series - rather than either the Fighting Fantazine adventures or Narnia & Shinberg's Tomb.

   As far as other goes perhaps you could review some of the FF games such as TinMan's adaptation of Warlock, Deathtrap Dungeon for Playstation and PC, Fighting Fantasy Legends, and Legend Of Zagor boardgame in the unlikely event you have it.

[scouserob]

More Puffin reviews for me, or, even better, reviews of Shadow of the Giants (which I liked a lot) and Secrets of Salamonis (which I’m currently enjoying … a lot).

[andrewwright]

Oct 19, 2023 9:06:24 GMT outspaced said:

Oct 18, 2023 20:19:42 GMT CharlesX said:

I don't know whether you mean atypical in the sense of too generous or too harsh, and to add to the confusion I have neither heard of Simon Osborne

He is like a finger pointing away to the moon. Don't concentrate on the finger, or you will miss all that heavenly glory.

Outspaced is Simon Osborne who is S.P. Osborne, author of Assassin of Orlandes and the absolutely fantastic Atlas of Titan. :-)

[andrewwright]

Oct 21, 2023 22:16:36 GMT a moderator said:

I'd prefer one of:
[ ] Fantazine adventures played in order
[ ] Review more Puffin books like Tide or Portal
[ ] Revisit Twist of Fate and wrap up VR

Same as Ed, plus the Scholastic books too. Dare you try Gates of Death?

[Per]

One advantage of doing playthroughs with added review-ish comments is that in theory it's not nearly as much of a time investment as a regular review (that is, play until I've beaten the book at least once or an approximation thereof in case of Crypt, Spellbreaker etc., then go through the whole book, reading unvisited sections, revealing you can't have the brass penguin in 277, and so on) and can be done in parallel with preparing a full review, plus the mostly 200-section Fantazine adventures are even lower-hanging fruit in that regard. I do also want to read and review some Puffin books especially, but it can take some time.

I am interested in the new books and Secrets especially, however I could get one for free if there's four of them, and including Crystal and Shadow that's only three in print I don't have. Do the community's insider sources have any better idea than Wikipedia when the next Scholastic release is due? (Of course I could pick a non-FF for a fourth book, but that seems like madness - "She-Hulk Goes to Murderworld"? "Fook Island"? "Catacombs of the Undercity" is not even a paperback. Why does one store want $21-25 for Blood Sword reprints but another only $11-14?)

[King Gillibran]

I would like you to do Scholastic playthroughs especially the 40th anniversary books.

[CharlesX]

Oct 21, 2023 20:33:38 GMT Per said:

9

Legend of the Shadow Warriors

Your review mentions using the Ring Of Destiny "like a machine gun" in combat if you have a high luck. IIRC I never sold either way on whether the Ring Of Destiny would work when Luck was used in combat, but I decided it would make for a better game if it didn't.

[andrewwright]

Oct 22, 2023 21:17:43 GMT Per said:

 "Catacombs of the Undercity" is not even a paperback.

As far as I know, the only Gamebook Adventures app from Tin Man Games, that got a book release was Simon Osborne outspaced 'An Assassin in Orlandes'.

Catacombs of the Undercity was scheduled to be #2, but it never happened. I've been recently thinking about converting it back to an FF adventure, not sure what the legal status is though, as although I wrote it and got paid not much, never got any royalties, and I'm not sure it's even available on the iStore anymore.

[Per]

Oct 23, 2023 15:56:46 GMT andrewwright said:

Catacombs of the Undercity was scheduled to be #2, but it never happened. I've been recently thinking about converting it back to an FF adventure, not sure what the legal status is though, as although I wrote it and got paid not much, never got any royalties, and I'm not sure it's even available on the iStore anymore.

It's got a page here saying it was released as a hardcover in 2017 by Snowbooks, with a ~$35 price tag and delivery time of 11-21 days, but maybe it wouldn't be the first unreleased item to linger in book store databases. More like Yellow Snowbooks am I right

[kieran]

Oct 23, 2023 15:56:46 GMT andrewwright said:

and I'm not sure it's even available on the iStore anymore.

I can't speak for the iStore, but you can still get it on Android as part of the Gamebook Adventures 4-6 compilation app.

[andrewwright]

Oct 23, 2023 16:26:56 GMT Per said:

Oct 23, 2023 15:56:46 GMT andrewwright said:

Catacombs of the Undercity was scheduled to be #2, but it never happened. I've been recently thinking about converting it back to an FF adventure, not sure what the legal status is though, as although I wrote it and got paid not much, never got any royalties, and I'm not sure it's even available on the iStore anymore.

It's got a page here saying it was released as a hardcover in 2017 by Snowbooks, with a ~$35 price tag and delivery time of 11-21 days, but maybe it wouldn't be the first unreleased item to linger in book store databases. More like Yellow Snowbooks am I right

I don't think it ever happened. Once tried to order it from Amazon and got refunded after a month or so.

[andrewwright]

Oct 23, 2023 18:51:36 GMT kieran said:

Oct 23, 2023 15:56:46 GMT andrewwright said:

and I'm not sure it's even available on the iStore anymore.

I can't speak for the iStore, but you can still get it on Android as part of the Gamebook Adventures 4-6 compilation app.

Wouldn't mind so much if I got some royalties but of course as a first time author I stupidly signed a contract with Tin Man stating 50c per section, so 400 sections = $200 and no royalties no matter how many platforms they exported it too. Still, it was the first major book-length project I ever finished, and I'm pretty sure the original script was way more playable than the eventual version.

[slloyd14]

I would like the fantazine adventures because I've written one.