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Post by tyrion on Sept 12, 2020 8:47:11 GMT
Standings so far:
16 - Sword of the samurai
15 - Island of the undead
14 - Night dragon
13 - Legend of the shadow warriors
12 - Beneath nightmare castle
11 - Night of the necromancer
10 - Vault of the vampire
9 - The seven serpents
8 - Deathtrap dungeon
7 - Creature of havoc
6 - Siege of sardath
5 - Khare cityport of traps
4 - Slaves of the abyss
Only one vote each, with one elimination unless there is a tie. Again, I've also made the poll so you can't see the results until it's finished.
Edit: notice the finish time is different than normal, I must have clicked on the wrong time by accident.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,472
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Sept 12, 2020 9:01:05 GMT
Talisman of Death for me this time. Great book but all the best bits are in the middle. Plus there's a few poor design choices too (dealing with the thieves feels pretty illogical, you can call on a god at random, it checks twice if you were invited to dinner with the sage etc).
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Post by vastariner on Sept 12, 2020 11:08:20 GMT
Sticking with Hell. Talisman is better written and the adventure is more an adventure, given that you have to get under the skin of an entire new world. I do wish that there had been a sequel as 400 sort of hinted at.
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Post by schlendrian on Sept 12, 2020 11:35:48 GMT
Now that there are only books I possess left over, I feel competent to vote. I'm with vastariner on this one.
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Post by sleepyscholar on Sept 12, 2020 11:44:42 GMT
Now that there are only books I possess left over, I feel competent to vote. I'm with vastariner on this one. This is a good point about the problem of books you haven't read, which has inhibited me. I think about 3 FF books (other than my own) accompanied me out here to Japan in 1991, and not being a collector I haven't made up my losses. So my recollections of the books I might vote for are based on reading them over 30 years ago. And of course, there were plenty I never read, not least anything from the post-Puffin series. That's the dilemma I have on this round. I've read two of the three. I've heard very good things about the third, but that's no basis on which to vote, is it? |
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Post by Law on Sept 12, 2020 11:48:51 GMT
Sticking with Hell. Talisman is better written and the adventure is more an adventure, given that you have to get under the skin of an entire new world. I do wish that there had been a sequel as 400 sort of hinted at. Hear, hear! In what world is Hell better than Vault, Serpents, Dungeon, Creature and Slaves?!
Whoops! I've touched a hot stove and kept my hand there long enough to scream the house down!
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,472
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Sept 12, 2020 12:36:59 GMT
Hear, hear! In what world is Hell better than Vault, Serpents, Dungeon, Creature and Slaves?! It's probably the most intricately designed book of the whole series. Plus it really makes use of the gamebook format to tell its story - you have to explore even the false paths to fully understand what's going on in the house. Most FF books could pretty much be rewritten as novels where the hero always takes the optimum choice. House of Hell on the other hand really shows how the medium can differ from a novel in telling a story. Plus it's genuinely creepy! This made me chuckle but it's not like the other books you mentioned don't have stupid moments - Vault starts with a headless man walking into the tavern and none of the patrons react at all. Serpents has you give up on your mission rather than walk round a lake. |
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Post by Law on Sept 12, 2020 12:49:33 GMT
Hear, hear! In what world is Hell better than Vault, Serpents, Dungeon, Creature and Slaves?! It's probably the most intricately designed book of the whole series. Plus it really makes use of the gamebook format to tell its story - you have to explore even the false paths to fully understand what's going on in the house. Most FF books could pretty much be rewritten as novels where the hero always takes the optimum choice. House of Hell on the other hand really shows how the medium can differ from a novel in telling a story. Plus it's genuinely creepy! This made me chuckle but it's not like the other books you mentioned don't have stupid moments - Vault starts with a headless man walking into the tavern and none of the patrons react at all. Serpents has you give up on your mission rather than walk round a lake. Yeah... The Lake Ikalka scene is pretty indefensible! Weren't the patrons in Vault bewitched or something?
As for House, I think Steve tried to refine his cryptography approach in Appointment and Creature.
The golden path in HoH, lol, is ultimately very short and requires you to miss a great deal of content, thereby breaking the fourth wall far more than the other books do I feel.
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809 
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Sept 12, 2020 14:02:12 GMT
3 awesome books. Very, very good ones!
My vote to win is clear: House of Hell.
My vote to go out, reluctantly, even being a spectacular book, i think it will be Howl of the Werewolf.
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Post by dragonwarrior8 on Sept 12, 2020 18:06:17 GMT
Ive only been voting if Ive read all the books in question so I apologize if this was pointed out in another thread, but I would say there is a distinction between "best" and "favorite". I can see arguments (hopefully civil ones!) regarding what the best FF book is, but how can you argue with someone about what their favorite is?
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Post by tyrion on Sept 12, 2020 19:26:11 GMT
Ive only been voting if Ive read all the books in question so I apologize if this was pointed out in another thread, but I would say there is a distinction between "best" and "favorite". I can see arguments (hopefully civil ones!) regarding what the best FF book is, but how can you argue with someone about what their favorite is? Indeed. We can set parameters for which is objectively the 'best' book (gameplay, fairness, even artwork and storyline to some extent), but favourite is entirely subjective. However, with a voting system you have a majority which ultimately does lead to the 'best' by common agreement, even if the reasons are different. Going with 'favourite ' rather than 'best' was a conscious decision on my part entirely because you can put forward your own interpretation on why a particular book is or is not your favourite (see my arguments re siege of sardath for example) and hence promote discussion in, as you say, a civil manner. Is Dave Mustaine a better singer than Gary Barlow? Obviously not. Do I prefer Megadeth over Take That? Oh yes indeed. |
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Post by dragonwarrior8 on Sept 12, 2020 20:08:43 GMT
Is Dave Mustaine a better singer than Gary Barlow? Obviously not. Do I prefer Megadeth over Take That? Oh yes indeed. But of course we all know that Iron Maiden is the best heavy metal band ever right? Its really no contest.  |
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Post by tyrion on Sept 12, 2020 21:00:16 GMT
That's for damn sure. But if I'd asked is Bruce Dickinson a better singer than Gary Barlow, the answer might have to be yes. Also better at flying planes and fighting with swords.
That's what I want from the next ff book. YOU are a singer in a band, but to avoid the apocalypse you have to fly round the world and kill the megalomaniac with your saber. Also you have a monstrous sidekick.
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Post by Peter on Sept 13, 2020 1:15:22 GMT
I've already said I would never vote against the first two, for what they brought to the series, and I haven't read the last one but people who have tend to say it is one of the best.
So the easy decision would be to not vote at all, but I don't like doing that, so I have just picked the one that is probably the third best of the three.
I can't believe the ones we lost last time though...
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Post by bloodbeasthandler on Sept 13, 2020 6:37:21 GMT
I've already said I would never vote against the first two, for what they brought to the series, and I haven't read the last one but people who have tend to say it is one of the best. Howl of the Werewolf is very well done indeed, so you're missing out there, unfortunately. It has more than one path to victory, it's put together well, [edit: has great artwork], and is very atmospheric and filled with gothic horror. It's one of the reasons why Jonathan Green ought to be at the helm of FF. I don't know where you live but if you live in the UK, have a look at the public Library service and see if you can loan it out. I know the book was available a few years ago but now I'm not so sure because they're not always updating the catalogue when they get rid of books. [Edit: Why not put up a list of the books you're missing on here at fightingfantazine.proboards.com/thread/313/second-hand-gamebook-bargains?page=2 ?] I can't believe the ones we lost last time though... Yeah, I was caught out a bit there too. |
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Sept 13, 2020 9:05:15 GMT
Ive only been voting if Ive read all the books in question so I apologize if this was pointed out in another thread, but I would say there is a distinction between "best" and "favorite". I can see arguments (hopefully civil ones!) regarding what the best FF book is, but how can you argue with someone about what their favorite is? I disagree. My favourite book is the best for me. My best book is my favourite to me. (Crypt of the Sorcerer, side by side with House of Hell) |
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,472
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Sept 13, 2020 10:29:34 GMT
Ive only been voting if Ive read all the books in question so I apologize if this was pointed out in another thread, but I would say there is a distinction between "best" and "favorite". I can see arguments (hopefully civil ones!) regarding what the best FF book is, but how can you argue with someone about what their favorite is? Yeah I suppose there is something of a distinction there. There are books that I think are technically very good that I don't really like all that much (eg Dead of Night). And there are books that are objectively not great but I like a lot (eg Return to Firetop Mountain). |
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Post by sleepyscholar on Sept 13, 2020 13:23:03 GMT
Ive only been voting if Ive read all the books in question so I apologize if this was pointed out in another thread, but I would say there is a distinction between "best" and "favorite". I can see arguments (hopefully civil ones!) regarding what the best FF book is, but how can you argue with someone about what their favorite is? I disagree. My favourite book is the best for me. My best book is my favourite to me. (Crypt of the Sorcerer, side by side with House of Hell) Dragonwarrior8 was making a distinction based on the actual meanings of 'best' (not 'best for me', but 'best') and 'favourite'. Of course, you are entirely at liberty to conflate their meaning, but it is not an especially useful position. The problem with 'best' is, of course, that it demands evaluation criteria, and those criteria will differ between readers, so in practice you're never going to get to an agreed objective best. But we nevertheless mostly agree to the concept. And it is by no means impossible that someone might not consider the 'best' FF to be their favourite. I mean, to give a rather tedious example, Magehunter is my favourite book, but it probably isn't my best book (as this poll has usefully demonstrated). |
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Sept 14, 2020 22:25:02 GMT
I do not agree. House of Hell deserved the crown.
But well, talisman of Death and Howl of the Werewolf are also both fantastic books.
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