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Post by johnbrawn1972 on Nov 15, 2019 21:59:39 GMT
It is because headcases like me are prepared to smash his face in.
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Nov 16, 2019 18:08:07 GMT
Living in london for 5 years... Living in amsterdam for 5 years... Who the hell wants to know.. Living in fenmarge for 5 years... First week.. Interesting.. First month boring... 5 years.. Who the hell wants to know... Earth, allansia, kuhl, in the end its all the same thing.. All a big hand full of nothing. And nothing else.
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Post by johnbrawn1972 on Nov 16, 2019 19:13:21 GMT
Living in london for 5 years... Living in amsterdam for 5 years... Who the hell wants to know.. Living in fenmarge for 5 years... First week.. Interesting.. First month boring... 5 years.. Who the hell wants to know... Earth, allansia, kuhl, in the end its all the same thing.. All a big hand full of nothing. And nothing else. I am sure you must be a magnet for friends.
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Nov 16, 2019 20:07:02 GMT
Living in london for 5 years... Living in amsterdam for 5 years... Who the hell wants to know.. Living in fenmarge for 5 years... First week.. Interesting.. First month boring... 5 years.. Who the hell wants to know... Earth, allansia, kuhl, in the end its all the same thing.. All a big hand full of nothing. And nothing else. I am sure you must be a magnet for friends. A friend is a dead man in one hundred years old. Every friend is a dead man in one hundred years old.
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Post by johnbrawn1972 on Nov 16, 2019 21:36:44 GMT
I am sure you must be a magnet for friends. A friend is a dead man in one hundred years old. Every friend is a dead man in one hundred years old. You should try Emily Dickinson as spoofed in the episode Never Kill A Boy On The First Date on Buffy.
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Post by a moderator on Nov 17, 2019 1:26:06 GMT
A friend is a dead man in one hundred years old. Every friend is a dead man in one hundred years old. Necromancy is not the solution.
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Post by johnbrawn1972 on Oct 2, 2020 19:37:22 GMT
I have had the wizard idea to go for two amulets. This is, as far as I can tell, utterly direct with only one fight. Solution now posted over my old one.
If you wanted to win 100% of the time you could go for one amulet and this seems to generate the only other 100% win outcome other than Starship Traveller.
You either win 500 gold pieces or 1000 gold pieces.
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Post by daredevil123 on Oct 2, 2020 20:25:40 GMT
You can reach para 358 (the 'get the money from Grimslade' ending) with only one amulet. It wouldn't be a 100% win outcome though as you could be killed by the Goblin Statue. Also, if you lose enough Stamina in that fight the quest becomes impossible to complete.
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Post by johnbrawn1972 on Oct 2, 2020 22:25:10 GMT
You can reach para 358 (the 'get the money from Grimslade' ending) with only one amulet. It wouldn't be a 100% win outcome though as you could be killed by the Goblin Statue. Also, if you lose enough Stamina in that fight the quest becomes impossible to complete. I seem to have spent so much time trying to find a better percentage than 0.1% for 7/14/7 I ignored the preliminary sequence. I even wondered if making it to Willowbend would help but the most you can trade are three items for three neutral spells. At the very least you use one ice gem(sk5 st17) to reach Willowbend and probably have to trade away a gem to the brigands so you can return in friendship so this leaves one extra gem for not very much. My solution for one amulet is foolproof as far as I can tell. The only problem is the test where the fight is not too loaded. You can use 1 luck for extra damage. So what are the percentages for winning the test? Only being able to take 2 hits is somewhat challenging? If you are very close to winning I suppose you could use 1 extra luck to reduce the damage where it would be 41% chance of success.
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Post by The Count on Oct 28, 2020 1:20:38 GMT
I don't see any point in doing the Grimslade mission without going for all 5 amulets, even with minimum stats - you'll get at least 4. Going for just one would make it quite a short adventure.
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Post by a moderator on Oct 28, 2020 1:54:18 GMT
With minimum stats? Even with the right spells, you'd still need to fight at least two Skill 9 opponents, and a Skill 7 opponent who'll reduce your Skill by 3 at the start of the fight.
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Oct 28, 2020 8:43:53 GMT
I don't see any point in doing the Grimslade mission without going for all 5 amulets, even with minimum stats - you'll get at least 4. Going for just one would make it quite a short adventure. Yes. 5 amulets. Kill them all. Good or bad wizards, who really kares about that. Kill them all. And bring them to grimslade. And kill him too. The all book should be that. And that should be the ultimate success!! A book like that would be the best of all FF books if the hero would not to be a bad hero in the beginning nor in the end.
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Post by johnbrawn1972 on Oct 28, 2020 15:06:00 GMT
I don't see any point in doing the Grimslade mission without going for all 5 amulets, even with minimum stats - you'll get at least 4. Going for just one would make it quite a short adventure. I had to find a better percentage, than completing Crypt with max stats, with 7/14/7.
As far as I can tell this means you have to fight skill 7 stamina 6 with effectively skill 7 stamina 6 but you can use luck once for extra damage. The third time you are hit you can always try to reduce damage by testing luck which will work erm 41% of the time.
Rather than a 0.1% chance you will have around a 50% chance of success.
Even my modified route of Spiders, Frogs and Birds had only a limited chance of success.
If you can achieve all 5 amulets with 7/14/7 you need to post your route so we all can find out where we are going wrong.
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Post by The Count on Nov 7, 2020 4:28:21 GMT
I don't see any point in doing the Grimslade mission without going for all 5 amulets, even with minimum stats - you'll get at least 4. Going for just one would make it quite a short adventure. I had to find a better percentage, than completing Crypt with max stats, with 7/14/7.
As far as I can tell this means you have to fight skill 7 stamina 6 with effectively skill 7 stamina 6 but you can use luck once for extra damage. The third time you are hit you can always try to reduce damage by testing luck which will work erm 41% of the time.
Rather than a 0.1% chance you will have around a 50% chance of success.
Even my modified route of Spiders, Frogs and Birds had only a limited chance of success.
If you can achieve all 5 amulets with 7/14/7 you need to post your route so we all can find out where we are going wrong.
My earlier post seems to have caused some confusion, so I will clarify: Scorpion Swamp is fun, but rather easy. As such, when choosing to go for the Grimslade mission, my personal preference is to attempt to go for 5 amulets each time regardless of stats, despite potentially being more difficult than Crypt and Spellbreaker if I have minimum stats. You can in my view easily get 4 amulets on most attempts. I never said anything about the 5th being successfully obtained or about successfully completing the adventure... For me, not every playthrough has to be about winning or taking the most optimal route - and since it is an easy book that I have completed many times over the years, I now prefer to keep it interesting. My 5 amulets route involves killing the unicorn and pool beast, trading at Willowbend and eating the berry which is very unlikely to be the best solution regardless of stats.
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Post by johnbrawn1972 on Nov 7, 2020 18:53:59 GMT
I had to find a better percentage, than completing Crypt with max stats, with 7/14/7.
As far as I can tell this means you have to fight skill 7 stamina 6 with effectively skill 7 stamina 6 but you can use luck once for extra damage. The third time you are hit you can always try to reduce damage by testing luck which will work erm 41% of the time.
Rather than a 0.1% chance you will have around a 50% chance of success.
Even my modified route of Spiders, Frogs and Birds had only a limited chance of success.
If you can achieve all 5 amulets with 7/14/7 you need to post your route so we all can find out where we are going wrong.
My earlier post seems to have caused some confusion, so I will clarify: Scorpion Swamp is fun, but rather easy. As such, when choosing to go for the Grimslade mission, my personal preference is to attempt to go for 5 amulets each time regardless of stats, despite potentially being more difficult than Crypt and Spellbreaker if I have minimum stats. You can in my view easily get 4 amulets on most attempts. I never said anything about the 5th being successfully obtained or about successfully completing the adventure... For me, not every playthrough has to be about winning or taking the most optimal route - and since it is an easy book that I have completed many times over the years, I now prefer to keep it interesting. My 5 amulets route involves killing the unicorn and pool beast, trading at Willowbend and eating the berry which is very unlikely to be the best solution regardless of stats. In the spirit of Buffy your logic does not resemble our Earth logic. You are a suicidal nihilist. You seriously win 4 amulets on most attempts. Please post your attempts(summarised please) You kill the Unicorn with 7 skill, 8 skill or 9 skill? You make your way all the way to Willowbend(with what spell gems) and how? So you do all this by not taking the optimum route? See first proposition.
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Post by The Count on Nov 9, 2020 11:30:22 GMT
My earlier post seems to have caused some confusion, so I will clarify: Scorpion Swamp is fun, but rather easy. As such, when choosing to go for the Grimslade mission, my personal preference is to attempt to go for 5 amulets each time regardless of stats, despite potentially being more difficult than Crypt and Spellbreaker if I have minimum stats. You can in my view easily get 4 amulets on most attempts. I never said anything about the 5th being successfully obtained or about successfully completing the adventure... For me, not every playthrough has to be about winning or taking the most optimal route - and since it is an easy book that I have completed many times over the years, I now prefer to keep it interesting. My 5 amulets route involves killing the unicorn and pool beast, trading at Willowbend and eating the berry which is very unlikely to be the best solution regardless of stats. In the spirit of Buffy your logic does not resemble our Earth logic. You are a suicidal nihilist. You seriously win 4 amulets on most attempts. Please post your attempts(summarised please) You kill the Unicorn with 7 skill, 8 skill or 9 skill? You make your way all the way to Willowbend(with what spell gems) and how? So you do all this by not taking the optimum route? See first proposition. 1) I am playing this mission in this book in this manner for fun and to make an easy book challenging. I don't care that it is not the best route. I like exploring the swamp. It's not a difficult concept and is a perfectly valid and logical way of playing any FF or other adventure gamebook, especially when they are non-linear. In the same manner that I do many of the side quests in Keep or occasionally look for one of the alternative endings in Tide - it is fun and what the book is designed for. I don't need to win every single time. If I wanted to play the optimal route every single time, I would do so. I would also fudge stats, pretend that I didn't fail my luck test and use a five finger bookmark in case I make a poorer choice. While I value and appreciate the hard work Champskees has put into his excellent solutions and stats, and have referred to them for tougher, broken, generally linear and almost unplayable books like Spellbreaker and Crypt or bugged books like Revenge, I don't slavishly stick to them for easier or non-linear books. These are not novels. You can do what you like with the books as can I. 2) ???EXCUSE ME??? I have no idea where that came from, though it seems that you have form for such comments. Over childrens books... quite something... 3) No. I do not record my attempts. I do not need to do so. I have no desire to do so. If I wished to do so, I would be posting in the SOLUTIONS section with a SOLUTION. Even if I was so inclined to do so, I certainly wouldn't now... You like doing solutions (often just repeating Champskees ones it seems) so I will leave it to you to decide how to do it and what the optimal route is. 4) Yes, I have done so. I have completed the book with 5 amulets a few times, I have not on many more occasions - usually losing one of the 3 Master fights. Or the Unicorn has killed me. Or I go to the wrong inn at Willowbend. Or I don't eat the berry. Or I meet the giant before the thief. Or I kill Grimslade and go on the boring quest. I don't care as it keeps the book fresh and I still have fun reading it.
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Post by johnbrawn1972 on Oct 15, 2021 22:26:25 GMT
After being somewhat stung by the criticism of only winning with Poomchukker about 10% of the time I have tried to find a route to increase the odds to about a 15% chance of winning while not altering the overall strategy.
This has all been done with my 'intuition' strategy as I do not have access to the mathematics to prove this.
I am hoping it is a 15% to 20% chance of success with my, as ever, parsimonious system.
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Post by CharlesX on Nov 7, 2021 15:37:14 GMT
If you choose Grimslade, then even if you get the 'proper' victory with most\all talismans, and the maximum amount of gold, the ending leaves you with a rubbish taste in your mouth, like you've just pulled off some tax evasion. While half-expected, this isn't always the way with FF, with Midnight Rogue and Seas Of Blood being some of the most satisfying\fun gamebooks.
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Post by daredevil123 on Nov 7, 2021 16:00:07 GMT
I prefer the ending where you kill Grimslade (almost certainly with a Curse spell). You don't have to obtain any amulets to achieve it, either!
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Post by CharlesX on Nov 7, 2021 16:05:54 GMT
I prefer the ending where you kill Grimslade (almost certainly with a Curse spell). You don't have to obtain any amulets to achieve it, either! IIRC his stats are different if you attack him before your quest to his stats when you return (stronger when you return)?
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Nov 7, 2021 19:17:35 GMT
I prefer the ending where you kill Grimslade (almost certainly with a Curse spell). You don't have to obtain any amulets to achieve it, either! IIRC his stats are different if you attack him before your quest to his stats when you return (stronger when you return)? I think he has a magic sword ready when you return in case you twig he's going to try ripping you off.
Try my version it's much more fun. (Not that that let's the trade go ahead straightforwardly either, but no outcome leads to lecturing.)
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Post by schlendrian on Nov 7, 2021 22:20:47 GMT
I wouldn't call it lecturing. A guilty conscience can be very nagging and annoying and sometimes happens even if you stand behind your actions. Why shouldn't this also be possible to happen to an FF character?
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Nov 8, 2021 0:46:59 GMT
I wouldn't call it lecturing. A guilty conscience can be very nagging and annoying and sometimes happens even if you stand behind your actions. Why shouldn't this also be possible to happen to an FF character? Mostly because you're told what your character feels at the end without being encouraged to get on board with that point of view from the start.
If you're playing Sword of the Samurai you don't have much reason to object if you're told you feel great shame for e.g. using archery against someone who's challenging you to single combat with swords. When you bought the book it was with the promise of embodying an honourable samurai with all that that entails.
But in Scorpion Swamp, you're offered a possible mission in which you spend the whole book serving a clearly evil master with the aim of making money. In taking it on, you're presumably accepting the idea of being a swashbuckling adventurer acting with a down and dirty sense of morality. Maybe you apply some moral limits to yourself, say avoiding killing any clearly good masters, but regardless if you commit to that idea you're unlikely to regret doing so. The ending is jarring because it flies in the face of how you (the player) are probably feeling and you have no reason to think your character would feel differently. So it feels like an external lecture, like your grinning schoolboy character has been caught by a teacher, rather than a pang of conscience.
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Post by Peter on Nov 12, 2021 8:05:21 GMT
My take on the Grimslade mission:
You take on the job, thinking "this is a bit dodgy, but hey, let's give it a go", then you diligently pursue your employer's directive, and only afterwards do you stop and think "what have I done?". Admittedly that suggests a moral void and a lack of awareness, but it makes sense if you are playing a character who is a bit thick.
I agree that the final paragraph doesn't effectively convey a feeling of guilt - it could have been written differently to emphasise this better.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Nov 13, 2021 5:23:43 GMT
My take on the Grimslade mission: You take on the job, thinking "this is a bit dodgy, but hey, let's give it a go", then you diligently pursue your employer's directive, and only afterwards do you stop and think "what have I done?". Admittedly that suggests a moral void and a lack of awareness, but it makes sense if you are playing a character who is a bit thick. I agree that the final paragraph doesn't effectively convey a feeling of guilt - it could have been written differently to emphasise this better. I definitely think that it makes it more interesting if the adventurer can claim not to have been explicitly following evil (again I tried to leave a bit of plausible deniability in my version). It's also true that there wouldn't be anything unusual about authors writing your character as a moron (Greenspine mentions your character in TKotLL wandering past the word 'Vampire' graffitied on a wall, on an island swarming with undead, and being completely baffled by the garlic which has been hung up). But still, regarding the adventurer-as-Grimslade-minion, the job of defence barrister doesn't seem that attractive.
Prosecution Barrister: So how did you first hear of Mr Grimslade? Adventurer: From a man named Gronar in an inn. PB: And how did Gronar describe him? A: He said he thought he was evil but couldn't say for sure. PB: I see. So you decided to keep an open mind and ask your way to his abode. Were the village-folk helpful? A: Not particularly. A woman made the sign of the evil eye at me and a little girl just ran off. PB: Nevertheless you did find your way to what is commonly described as "a dark, jagged tower with gruesome statuary, with a hideous face sculpted into the door and bats circling the upper storey", is that right? A: I happen to like bats. PB: More than you like wolves and frogs no doubt. DB: Objection! PB: Withdrawn. Before we go any further, does the ring on your hand have any non-decorative function? A: Yes, as I mentioned to the guards, the ring tells me which way North is. PB: And... A: Um, it heats up in the presence of evil. PB: Did it heat up in the presence of Mr Grimslade?
A: It was a warm day, it was difficult to be sure. PB: I see. Anyway you persuaded Grimslade he could trust you with some business, which was to acquire amulets possessed by some folk who live in the swamp...? A: Yes. PB: He didn't give you any reason as to why they shouldn't be allowed to keep their amulets? A: No, he just said to go and get them by whatever means. PB: I see. He just wanted you to steal them; the murders were your idea. DB: Objection! PB: Withdrawn. Now did Grimslade offer you any assistance for your work? A: Yes, some charms in case I needed to terrify or curse someone. Or kill some trees. PB: Exactly the sort of thing that any upstanding citizen might pass over to a stranger to assist them in some legitimate work. Nothing... nice though? A: Oh no, I don't think he had any interest in that sort of thing. PB: Right, let's get to the meat of this. I put it to you, Mr Yu, that in the course of your trip through the swamp you slaughtered everyone you encountered who was wearing an amulet, a bear from an endangered species and a beloved jewel-headed beast which was the village mascot. Is that a fair summary? A: No. PB: Why not? A: When I killed the spider guy it was sort of self-defense, and I didn't need to kill the bird lady because she gave me what I wanted. PB: I...see... then you returned to Grimslade and were paid in full. Nevertheless, when you were arrested outside his tower you said that you were beginning to doubt that you'd done the right thing. Is that correct? A: Yes. PB: And when exactly did you begin to sense that in serving Grimslade you were serving the forces of evil? A: I think it was when I realised he was thinking of underpaying me for all the lovely murders I did. PB: No further questions.
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Post by daredevil123 on Nov 20, 2021 21:52:07 GMT
Re-reading the above post reminded me that, despite the lack of legal repercussions for being Grimslade's minion, you can be imprisoned if you attack Poomchukker and try to escape. This is more than deserved though, given he does nothing more than be a bit dismissive if you fail his mission.
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Post by CharlesX on Nov 21, 2021 22:38:56 GMT
Re-reading the above post reminded me that, despite the lack of legal repercussions for being Grimslade's minion, you can be imprisoned if you attack Poomchukker and try to escape. This is more than deserved though, given he does nothing more than be a bit dismissive if you fail his mission. IIRC if you even turn down Grimslade's mission he turns into a vampire bat or something flying to kill you while you run away from his tower.
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Post by a moderator on Nov 21, 2021 23:05:04 GMT
You can't turn the mission down. However, if you botch the Goblin statue fight or interrupt the animation of the statue, and don't subsequently fight Grimslade, he pursues you on a magic carpet, with potentially lethal consequences.
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Post by scouserob on Sept 19, 2022 10:55:08 GMT
Well this one is a bit different. 3 different quests to choose from before you even enter the swamp. (Good, Neutral and Evil, basically. I like.) Magic in the form of spell gems. Your choice of quests dictates the range to choose from. So like Citadel of Chaos you have the fun of guessing just how each spell will work in different situations and whether you should use it now or save for later. (I like!) No provisions just Stamina Gems which heal Ceiling[(Initial Stamina)/2)] There also seems to be very few opportunities to recover lost stamina, making the swamp a bit of an endurance test and the decision of just how many stamina gems to take pretty critical. (I like a lot!) The swamp is very modular, arranged like a grid, and perhaps there is a bit of atmosphere lacking as I didn't really feel like I was exploring an impossible to navigate (without magic) swamp at all. You can go backwards!! Revisiting clearings as many times as you like with events changing depending on your previous actions. This is really well done and seems to work excellently. I haven't found much in the way of broken passages yet except: The Mistress of Birds teleports you into the further depths of the swamp if you are on the good or neutral quests whether you have already completed the quest and are on your way back, or not. You also have to make it back out of the swamp alive after completing your quest, which is also an interesting mechanic. (This is clear from the outset of each quest so it isn't sprung on you as a last minute annoyance.) We completed it on our first attempt, choosing Selator's (good) quest, though we were on our last vestiges of stamina when we emerged back into Fenmarge. I'm only partway through mapping this and so haven't seen everything yet, though I've probably visited almost every clearing. Here is my progress so far: (Green mapped, Blue mapped but there are unmapped sections leading into it, white unmapped.)
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Post by scouserob on Sept 24, 2022 8:52:22 GMT
The Magic Swords
The magic sword you are given by Grimslade for defeating the Goblin Statue without losing any stamina has the following rule: Add 1 to your Skill whenever you use it.
So though it cannot take you above your Initial Skill, it will negate your skill loss from the Swamp Orcs, should you choose to pass them without the Magnet Pendant.
So for example: Your Initial Skill is 10. You fight the Crab Grass with the Magic Sword but your Skill is still only 10 for this fight. The Swamp Orcs wound you, your Skill is now 9. You fight the Swamp Orcs with the Magic Sword and your Skill is back to 10 for this fight. Your leave the clearing with a Skill of 9.
Oddly the +2 Skill The magic Sword you get for killing Grimslade before or after the swamp just states: Adds 2 to the skill of its user. Which I would usually take to mean it would be a permanent boost for skill tests and the like. I would also be conflicted on the legitimacy of adding this skill bonus retrospectively after losing skill points in the swamp.
Does anyone have any thoughts on the rules for such equipment skill bonuses in general and how to apply them?
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