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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 2, 2013 15:32:16 GMT
masterchief: _________________________________________ Do you love this book so much you tuck it under the covers at night? Did you hate it so badly you used it as loo-roll? Let the world know!
~MC~
~ Vae Victis! ~
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 2, 2013 15:35:13 GMT
masterchief: _________________________________________ I was wondering how everyone here treats the infamous Kris Knife 'bonus' ? As it is written, the weapon in question will give you a bonus of three SKILL points for the adventure's final encounter, but there has been plenty of argument over the years from fans that this was meant to be taken as an attack strength bonus. As it is written, the Kris Knife is more or less useless for lower skilled characters therefore I have always played with the forethought that if I get that far, I will apply it as AS instead of SKILL. However, as maningray pointed out on the official forum some time back, the SKILL bonus could be deliberate; after all, you are taking on a bona fide demon with nothing but a small, wavy blade.
In Greenspine's recent play through here, he played it as a SKILL bonus as written, to balance out his 'fudging' of the other pain-in-the-arse fact about this otherwise superlative adventure: The FEAR score. What do YOU do?
~ Vae Victis! ~
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 2, 2013 15:39:10 GMT
hynreck: _________________________________________ I'd like to tell you what I did, Masterchief... but the fact is: I cheated! Like I do these days... Or else I'd still be playing right now: Getting the right way (and not dying of fear) is so darn difficult! But if I'd played it straight, I would have used Skill bonus as described; after all, I'm not a pro like most of you guys; most of the time I don't question myself on matters such as possible mistakes made by the author, unless they are of the obvious type... I'm no good at spotting those.
Anyway, what an awesome book. Maybe it's hard and frustrating, really merciless, take a wrong turn and you are doomed, but what an atmosphere! I remember, playing this book when I was young, Le manoir de l'enfer, I always got scared. The writing, the drawings; they got to me.
Not so much today, but it's still creepy. Some of the contents, some of the illustrations, still makes me uneasy. The hangman, the bleeding goathead, that bleeding cultist at the front door (whose reason to be there are beyond comprehension), that Ghoul, that freaking Zombie! I'm not a big fan of Tim Sell's illos, but he did create some disturbing images from some disturbing text by our friend Jackson.
Ian Miller's original cover is also creepy-scary. His whole style seems haunted. The new cover is okay, well done, but not as appropriate or strong as the original. Some argue that it's too spoilerish. I would argue that unless you know the story, it is not: It's vague enough that you can't quite recognize who is on the cover and what's going on. Basically, you have to have played the book, you have to know. Myself, first time I saw it, thought it depicted something happening to the player: Torn by the forces of hell or something. It's only after a while that I went: Oh yeah, that's supposed to be Franklin? Looks like a business guy being torn by the demons of useless office meetings.
I was also pleasantly surprised by how well it still holds, today. Well written, scary and disturbing, I'm not sure I would classify this book as being for children. More for teenage/adult readers, really. I still winced when I passed through the sacrificial altar (I know, my game ended not too long after) and had to watch helplessly as the cultists stab that poor girl and then played around with her blood.
Some things worth mentioning about my French edition: The small voodoo pin cushion illo is missing from it; don't know why; don't know if it offended somebody out there. Also, translation can be a funny thing. Some stuff are lost in translation, some are altered, for the better or often, for the worst. Here are two samples: If you try to free the girl on the sacrificial altar, Steve Jackson gets really mean to you by telling you that basically, you are stupid and deserved to die. That's what I also believe and find that little bit extremely funny. Anyway, in French, your gesture is also labelled as stupid, but instead of finishing by telling you how you deserve to die, it says that you died a hero!! Really? I did not manage to save the girl, I did not make a difference, and still, I'm a hero? Somebody in the French publishing house must have objected to the idea of insulting the reader...
The other one is a the end. Whereas, in the original, it's: a fitting end for a house from hell, or something close, we have the same in French, but they decided to add a little humour at the end, something close to: But where the heck, at this hour, am I going to find an open garage shop?
Yea, right, after I went through hell and back, barely escaping with my life, I'm back to mundane problems. My car. My appointment. Why not? Bother, I do not want to walk back anywhere after that ordeal. Let's go ring the bell of the next haunted house. Maybe they've got a phone there. Silly me.
Oh well. Jolly good read all the same!
Speak in extremes, it will save you time.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 2, 2013 15:42:03 GMT
jamus: _________________________________________ I was playing this the other night for the first time in a couple of years.
I played completely fairly, starting over and rolling new stats whenever I died. Despite my previous experience a few years back, I was still shocked at how insanely difficult this adventure is. I knew it was hard, but I didn't remember it being this infuriatingly difficult!
This could be partly due to the fact that I refused to say the correct password without first finding the relevant clue for it, which I don't think I did last time. Anyway it took me over 20 attempts to finally finish it. Of course, I interpreted the +6 SKILL as +6 Attack Strength.
Like Masterchief, I would also like to know people's opinion on this bonus for the final battle. I believe that Jackson intended the bonus to be for Attack Strength. My reasoning is as follows:
In the initial battle against human Franklins, you are instructed to gain +3 to your SKILL score if you wield the Kris Dagger. This makes sense because it is in keeping with the bonus you receive for other knives.
Then, after Franklin's transformation, you instructed to add +6 to your SKILL. What is the purpose of this bonus? The standard +3 SKILL for having the weapon would almost certainly be enough to bring you up to your Initial Skill. An additional +3 SKILL seems kind of pointless.
What would make more sense is if the +6 applied to Attack Strength, as this would give the player a reasonable shot of winning the fight. I don't think its too far fetched to assume the Kris Dagger has a magical power which activates in the presence of Hell Demon, thus justifying the +6 AS bonus.
In addition to this, Steve Jackson has never before left the player to fight an incredibly high skilled enemy without some other method of defeating it. It is not his style, which supports the theory that it is an error.
What do you think?
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 2, 2013 15:44:21 GMT
kieran: _________________________________________ I definitely agree that it was intended as an Attack Strength bonus. Whether it was supposed to be +6 or +3 I'm not sure.
I find it odd that the rules provide the term Attack Strength yet pretty much every FF author seems to have forgotten the term exists and either use Skill by mistake (leading to readers not knowing if they're cheating or not) or unneccesarily cumbersome instructions like "this sword will allow you to exceed your Initial Skill by 1 point in combat situations only".
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 2, 2013 15:45:02 GMT
jamus: _________________________________________ I find that strange as well. I remember at least one instance in "Talisman of Death" where it seems the author meant Attack Strength instead of Skill.
I've noticed Ian Livingstone always tends to write SKILL instead of Attack Strength, but this seems to be intentional.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 2, 2013 15:48:29 GMT
odo_ital: _________________________________________ This is my all time favourite book of the FF series. I've always been a great fan of the horror genre in general, and Steve Jackson is fantastic at creating a chilling atmosphere, and interesting and innovative encounters, so you always have something new to face in each room, and yet for all the different encounters the house still feels as being lived in and haunted by creatures that makes sense to have in the house. That is not something that is easy to achieve, but Jackson does it really well. Maybe that's why I got into the series in the first place as this was also the first FF book I read.
My biggest problem with the book is that it is extremely linear. There are so many interesting encounters that you can only get to encounter if you enter a path that ensures that you cannot complete the book (the sacrifice of the girl, the ghoul in the kitchen and the goatfaced cultist you meet when you try to leave the house are good examples of this), and that is a shame, but that is also one of the reason that I love making complete maps of the books to find encounters that you would not normally experience.
As for cheating in the book, I usually take the Skill bonus for the kris knife as an attack strength bonus, since otherwise the battle with the Hell Demon would be ridiculously difficult, and I think that was also Steve Jacksons intent. As I recall the oldest books usually just gave Skill bonuses, which were intended as attack strength but in the later books I seem to recall the authors getting better at using that terminology, but in many cases this is up to individual interpretation.
I do make a mini-cheat when creating a character for the book. When I roll my stats I start with my Fear score and if I roll less than 9 I roll again, knowing full well that this is the minimum requirement for completing the book. I prefer to roll 10 or higher since this gives me enough fear to meet the ghostly woman, who can give a lot of information about the house, since the trip through the house seems so much more complete, if you are given that information.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 2, 2013 15:49:29 GMT
masterchief: _________________________________________ Hi odo_ital!
I agree with the linearity of the main path. The clever design is all the more apparent for cartographers like myself (as you mention, you draw a map so that you can see places not seen in the true path) and the layout of the house feels coherent and makes sense, but it is frustrating that so many options lay of the true path. However, let's be honest, we've all seen those encounters a lot, especially if you haven't played the book for a few years and have forgotten how to progress!
Recent playthroughs have left me baffled, much like I always end up with the endless waves of Chaos Warriors (or whatever they were) in Creature of Havoc, in House of Hell I always end up having to ring that damn bell.
~ Vae Victis! ~
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 2, 2013 15:51:44 GMT
greenspine: _________________________________________ As I recall the oldest books ususally just gave Skill bonuses, which were intended as attack strength but in the later books I seem to recall the authors getting better at using that terminology, but in many cases this is up to individual interpretation. It's bizarrely inconsistent. In TWoFM there's a sword with a SKILL bonus before the river, and one with an Attack Strength bonus after it. IIRC, the sword from the leprechaun in CoC has an Attack Strength bonus, but the light sab- sorry, the completely different and in no way Star Wars-influenced Sun Sword gives its bonus to SKILL. On two of the roads leading from the first junction in CoT, you can get an item that adds to Attack Strength, while on the third (and in the second half of the book) any bonus is for SKILL. And after that, I think Ian forgets about the term 'Attack Strength' altogether, more's the pity. CotS might even be playable if you could use every bonus.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 2, 2013 15:52:34 GMT
symm: _________________________________________ Hi everyone,
What do you think about the HoH-movie that will be produced in the near future? I think that this is a good way to destroy a personal picture of the house as everybody has a more or less own image of the interior.
Please let me know your opinions.
Halt, or I shall loose an arrow at you.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 2, 2013 15:53:28 GMT
hynreck: _________________________________________ I believe the book will stand on it's own, like it already did for the last 25+ years.
And the movie will be it's own thing, with its (hopefully) strength and (inevitable) weaknesses.
Are you telling us that you are afraid a movie will steal your imagination?
What's yours is yours.
Speak in extremes, it will save you time.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 2, 2013 15:53:53 GMT
khaxzan: _________________________________________ Will the movie do justice to the book?
The more beautiful and pure FF is – the more satisfying it is to corrupt it.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 2, 2013 15:54:41 GMT
symm: _________________________________________ Hynreck, No, I am not afraid of this - I won't watch the movie. My imaginativeness is beyond any movie. That is why I love these books.
Halt, or I shall loose an arrow at you.
_________________________________________
hynreck: _________________________________________ You wouldn't even watch it - let's say - for free?
Speak in extremes, it will save you time.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 2, 2013 15:55:48 GMT
symm: _________________________________________ No, I wouldn't. In my opinion not all books are meant to become movies. Especially not good books. The mind creates the pictures when one is reading. That makes the movie dispensable.
Most notably if it is about a book that is meant for people with a vivid imagination. Wouldn't you agree?
Don't get me wrong there. I like certain movies very much. But I won't let anyone mess with the Fighting Fantasy world in my mind.
Halt, or I shall loose an arrow at you.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 2, 2013 15:56:30 GMT
hynreck: _________________________________________ Well, I can respect that. I for one own lots of books and even more movies (say in the thousands). I am a glutton for a story, be it good or bad, frankly (good is better, obviously).
So it doesn't matter for me if a book is turned into a movie, it happens all the time in my world. The book is it's own thing and so is the movie.
They are separate entities, with a life of their own. I see no conflict.
Speak in extremes, it will save you time.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 2, 2013 15:58:07 GMT
khaxzan: _________________________________________ You wouldn't even watch it - let's say - for free? I'd watch it, but would wait until it's at the discount section. Would I buy it? No. Rent it? Yes. The more beautiful and pure FF is – the more satisfying it is to corrupt it.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 2, 2013 15:58:38 GMT
hynreck: _________________________________________ I might be more interested in the interactive part of it, frankly. If it ever happens.
Speak in extremes, it will save you time.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 2, 2013 16:00:08 GMT
9673672: _________________________________________ I think I remember reading an article in The Sunday Times back in the 80's during the D&D 'Satanic Panic' that some people had claimed that the House of Hell had given children headaches and chest-pains whilst reading it, and that there was a rumour the book was somehow cursed.
While this is great playground lore, I think Steve and Ian flatly denied being part of any satanic conspiracy. Does anyone else remember reading the article, or even better have a copy of it so I can discover if my aged brain is playing tricks on me!
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 2, 2013 16:01:15 GMT
gallicus: _________________________________________ There is an interview with Steve Jackson from a Christian magazine looking at this issue. Scan of it can be found here: groups.yahoo.com/group/gamebooks/files/Magazine%20Articles/(328) Despite your best efforts, you find yourself decaying in front of a computer screen. Your adventure ends here.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 2, 2013 16:03:14 GMT
9673684: _________________________________________ I loved this book, it was like a naughty holy grail for me as a kid. My folks did not want to get it for me to add to my collection as my mom had also just entered into a serious christian mindset. (I'm christian too) (She also had a problem with the City of Thieves cover but I smuggled it, HA!)
Much to my parents amusement/disappointment I was fascinated with horror as a kid. While other kids my age read 'Famous 5 get mugged in the East End', I was reading Graham Mastertons 'Charnel House'.
I used to page through it at the bookstore and play as much as I could just by following the page prompts. The old lady in the bed was awesome and I loved the cultists at the door. I knew the goat headed cultists would FREAK my mom out.
I like both covers, original is best of course, but I do like the new cover as well, with the painting in the background on the mouldy walls. Book is hard as nails though, I still have not finished it.
Tenebrae Studios, always looking for new clients
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Apr 27, 2014 23:47:06 GMT
i'd forgotten about it for a while, but does anyone know what ever happened to the House of Hell movie? did they finish making it?
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Post by deadshadowrunner on Apr 28, 2014 5:31:26 GMT
As far as I know,they decided to stop work on the movie.
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Post by a moderator on Apr 28, 2014 12:30:31 GMT
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,465
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Apr 29, 2014 7:35:28 GMT
Something tells me that is no great loss to the world of cinema.
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Post by schlendrian on Apr 29, 2014 19:01:30 GMT
Something tells me that is no great loss to the world of cinema. Most likely. But HoH not being written wouldn't have been a great loss to the world of literature either, and it's nonetheless a lot of fun.
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Post by a moderator on May 24, 2014 11:22:26 GMT
My TUFFF playthrough, restored from an unexpected backup:
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Jul 23, 2015 16:10:11 GMT
What to say about house of Hell. One of my favourites! Top 3! Incredible Atmosphere. Absolutely Magical.
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Aug 5, 2015 14:41:10 GMT
I am not a "fan" of Creature of Havoc. House of Hell is a different case. My identification with this book goes far beyond flesh and blood. My soul goes into a trance when I feel this book.
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Post by hynreck on Aug 5, 2015 16:34:58 GMT
I wonder if the same post will go up in the Creature of Havoc thread? And please, use bigger font next time, I'm still having a bit of trouble understanding.
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Post by a moderator on Aug 5, 2015 16:52:45 GMT
My soul goes into a trance when I feel this book. Are you sure you didn't just wind up at section 331?
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