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Post by stevendoig on Dec 4, 2016 22:12:52 GMT
Played this book again the night.
I rolled max for Skill & Faith.
With a vague notion of where to go,it was a bit of a breeze!
Still great fun though!
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Post by The Count on Nov 22, 2020 3:18:32 GMT
Regarding a (much) earlier comment about the books - it is a rather clever bit of writing. You should really only show him one book as showing the other isn't as helpful as it seems.
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Nov 22, 2020 8:09:01 GMT
That is an unbelievable book. Gave it a 9,close to a 10.to be sure, I do no not know for sure if Vault is not even better than howl.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,678
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Nov 22, 2020 12:07:49 GMT
That is an unbelievable book. Gave it a 9,close to a 10.to be sure, I do no not know for sure if Vault is not even better than howl. It doesn't have the versatility of Howl but I'd say the storytelling and atmosphere is much better. Some really tough combats hold it back a bit.
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Post by tyrion on Nov 22, 2020 14:36:33 GMT
I've just played through this (again!) with sk11, st17, lk10 and fh7, so pretty much average stats. The multitude of stamina restoratives (an extra 8 provisions, enough brandy for an alcoholic etc) meant my stamina was never really that low. The higher skill helped with the tough combats.
I like how the rules state that whatever stats you roll, you could 'struggle through'! Certainly a low skill character would struggle.
Overall an excellent book, taking the fairly standard 10 provisions, backpack and sword starting point and weaving an atmospheric story out of it.
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Nov 22, 2020 15:24:36 GMT
Note 10 Vault of the Vampire! Note 10 Nightmares Castle, Deathtrap Dungeon, Trial of Champions, Note 10 city of Thieves. Note 10!!! The only problem is when I compare those books with House of Hell & Crypt of the Sorcerer...
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Post by philsadler on Nov 22, 2020 18:41:13 GMT
I've just played through this (again!) with sk11, st17, lk10 and fh7, so pretty much average stats.
Average? You mean 9/18/9? Because those stats above very good to me.
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Post by a moderator on Nov 22, 2020 19:06:52 GMT
9/18/9 is slightly below average, but 11/17/10/7 is a little over.
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Post by tyrion on Nov 22, 2020 20:11:48 GMT
Numbers rolled on all 5 dice rolls: 5 (skill), 5 (stamina), 4 (luck) and 4 (faith), 18 in total. Average for 5 dice is 17.5. So average overall, with a high skill and luck but low stamina.
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Post by philsadler on Nov 22, 2020 20:31:18 GMT
Never heard anyone say a character with a skill of 11 was 'average', let alone a luck of 10. Wish I could roll up these Average characters a bit more often.
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Post by tyrion on Nov 22, 2020 20:50:22 GMT
It sounds above average because of the high skill. If I roll four dice and get 5, 2, 3 and 4, how is that not the definition of average?
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Post by a moderator on Nov 22, 2020 21:29:28 GMT
The Faith roll puts it fractionally above average, but since you're rolling five dice for character generation and fractions aren't possible, a perfectly average score isn't achievable here.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,678
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Nov 22, 2020 21:56:32 GMT
Not really what you rolled but how you distributed them. Skill trumps every other attribute the majority of the time so a high roll put into Skill already puts you above average. If you put the same two highest rolls into Stamina it'll be a completely different story.
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Post by tyrion on Nov 22, 2020 22:06:14 GMT
True enough. Although it must be said it was the dice gods that allocated the scores, not me. But this is an interesting point: if we just rolled 4d6 and distributed them as we wished, would the highest die roll always go into skill?
Looking at my adventure sheet, a faith of 6 would have been sufficient to make the faith roll vs the count academic.
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Post by a moderator on Nov 23, 2020 1:19:08 GMT
But this is an interesting point: if we just rolled 4d6 and distributed them as we wished, would the highest die roll always go into skill? With the harsher books, stat-wise, I sometimes do roll 4d6 and distribute them. The highest one often goes to Skill, but if I know there's a do-or-die Luck test and no multiple combats against opponents with double-figure Skill scores, I might prioritise Luck.
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kieran
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Post by kieran on Nov 23, 2020 10:35:16 GMT
Creature of Havoc is probably a book where Luck should be prioritised over Skill. There's a handful of "succeed or die" Luck tests. However due to the reduced damage the Creature takes in battle and its ability to insta-kill on a double, Skill is less crucial.
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Post by The Count on Mar 9, 2021 2:14:09 GMT
I think this was the first book to rightly suggest the restorative powers of a good Brandy
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Post by Wilf on Mar 10, 2021 10:53:39 GMT
I think this was the first book to rightly suggest the restorative powers of a good Brandy Certainly a gain of 4 Stamina is more impressive than the loss of 1 Fear point, but the latter effect appears in an earlier book - House Of Hell 394.
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Post by a moderator on Mar 10, 2021 13:04:25 GMT
House of Hell also has brandy adding Stamina, in section 292.
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Post by nathanh on Apr 26, 2023 18:09:38 GMT
This book has some curious ideas about when violence is and isn't appropriate. Generally, the LUCK and FAITH penalties for attacking people in the castle are appropriate. But then you have the Ranger, who attacks you without mercy, but if you fight back you are a terrible person. Despite all we see her doing is attacking strangers and bullying gnomes. Then we are allowed to kill the gnome without penalty, and even praised for it in a later paragraph, even though his only crime against us at the time was looking at us a bit funny. So, it seems that we are allowed to kill people who are bad people without provocation, but not kill people who are good people but try to kill us. Finally, we are then allowed to attack a forester in his sleep for no good reason and we suffer no penalties. Presumably he kicks cats offscreen or something.
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CharlesX
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Post by CharlesX on Apr 26, 2023 19:06:20 GMT
This book has some curious ideas about when violence is and isn't appropriate. Generally, the LUCK and FAITH penalties for attacking people in the castle are appropriate. But then you have the Ranger, who attacks you without mercy, but if you fight back you are a terrible person. Despite all we see her doing is attacking strangers and bullying gnomes. Then we are allowed to kill the gnome without penalty, and even praised for it in a later paragraph, even though his only crime against us at the time was looking at us a bit funny. So, it seems that we are allowed to kill people who are bad people without provocation, but not kill people who are good people but try to kill us. Finally, we are then allowed to attack a forester in his sleep for no good reason and we suffer no penalties. Presumably he kicks cats offscreen or something. My remembrance of Vault is it prioritizes gameplay over narration like most Keith Martin. I'm saying I suspect Keith Martin wrote Vault chiefly as a game, and if that coincided with a good narration (as it maybe didn't) then that would have been a good thing. Do you remember that very tired, very old debate about Tony Martin, the farmer who got tired of bad guys robbing his house and when the police kept doing nothing, he shot them (and killed one)? Keith Martin always seemed to me like the sort of bloke who'd be very anti 'have a go hero'. Once I approach Keith Martin work with those two things in mind it pretty much makes sense. Or there is little rhyme or reason about it, like you suggest.
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Post by Wizard Slayer on Apr 27, 2023 8:59:28 GMT
But then you have the Ranger, who attacks you without mercy, but if you fight back you are a terrible person...it seems that we are [not] allowed to...kill people who are good people but try to kill us. If you choose to attack her, by that point she's only fired a warning shot at you, and she's described as "rightly suspicious". True, she puts the next arrow in you if you don't attack, but it's hardly attacking without mercy or trying to kill you. Anyway maybe she loses a Luck point herself for that!
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