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Post by time4tea on Sept 6, 2022 17:22:39 GMT
It's not that I think they're universally bad and I agree they can be entertaining ways to end the story.
Perhaps it's not just how many there are, but also the type and how they are presented to the player? I think the worst ones tend to be the 'roll or die' kind, where you have to pass a luck roll or roll a 3+ on a d6, or you die. Or the sort where they just come out of nowhere, with no warning at all - you just turned right rather than left and you're dead. Creature of Havoc has several of those right near the start: if you fail a luck roll to cross the narrow bridge over the stream, you're dead. I think there is a luck roll while fighting the band of adventurers, where if you fail it the wizard charms you and you're done. Then, there is also a room where, as soon as you walk in the door locks shut and it turns into a big oven and if you don't have a particular item, you get roasted. I've tried that one 4-5 times recently and still can't get out of the starting dungeon area.
OTOH, sudden deaths later on in the book, if you've failed to find a critical item, seem fair enough. I just got killed in Dead of Night when I failed to disrupt the crystal thingy in the center of the demon structure in Axbury. Seems fair enough, as there are other things I could have done to make success more likely.
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Post by petch on Sept 6, 2022 21:46:26 GMT
Creature of Havoc has several of those right near the start: if you fail a luck roll to cross the narrow bridge over the stream, you're dead. I think there is a luck roll while fighting the band of adventurers, where if you fail it the wizard charms you and you're done. Then, there is also a room where, as soon as you walk in the door locks shut and it turns into a big oven and if you don't have a particular item, you get roasted. I've tried that one 4-5 times recently and still can't get out of the starting dungeon area.
Aah yes, that's notoriously one of the most difficult bits in the entire series. Being able to have the benefit of hindsight, I can sit back and admire the intricate brilliance of its design - but at the time I was trying to solve it, it was teeth-grindingly frustrating due to its formidable difficulty and nasty tricks. 4-5 tries is very conservative to be honest, I think it probably took me dozens of tries just to get out of that opening dungeon, so if you manage it in less than that you've done better than me! |
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Post by time4tea on Sept 7, 2022 10:56:48 GMT
Aah yes, that's notoriously one of the most difficult bits in the entire series. Being able to have the benefit of hindsight, I can sit back and admire the intricate brilliance of its design - but at the time I was trying to solve it, it was teeth-grindingly frustrating due to its formidable difficulty and nasty tricks. 4-5 tries is very conservative to be honest, I think it probably took me dozens of tries just to get out of that opening dungeon, so if you manage it in less than that you've done better than me!
Ok. Well, it's good to hear that it's not just me! I have to question the design choice though of having such a brutally difficult section right at the start of the book, before the player has had a chance to get going or figure out anything of the plot.
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Post by petch on Sept 10, 2022 11:28:40 GMT
Ok. Well, it's good to hear that it's not just me! I have to question the design choice though of having such a brutally difficult section right at the start of the book, before the player has had a chance to get going or figure out anything of the plot.
Totally fair point, if I remember correctly I died so many times in that opening section by the time the story got going I'd forgotten most of the lore that Jackson set out in the extended Background section, and had even began to question whether any of it would have any relevance at all. I guess what I'd say to that is if you stick with it, gradually after each try the dots do start to connect and the eventual payoff is immensely satisfying. It's certainly a book that tests the patience, but give it enough time and it more than rewards it as well. |
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Post by petch on Sept 10, 2022 11:31:48 GMT
What makes a bad FF book? Well, judging by last year's poll, Scholastic do. Happily, if early impressions are anything to go by, not any more  |
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Post by paulmcm on Sept 16, 2022 23:33:01 GMT
On the subject of insta deaths (and this is controversial as people like this) a bugbearer of mine is if they tell me "Your Adventure Ends Here" or that I have died. Especially when the narrative makes the fact obvious.
I'll read something like "The troll's axe lands clean into your neck severing your head from your body. Your head lies face up on the floor turning blue as your eyes lay with a lifeless stare, the rest of your body slumps to the floor as your heart beats it's last beat, squirting some blood onto the stony ground"
At this point you do not need to tell me "You're adventure ends here" I grasped that from what I just read. I didnt think I was going to carry on without a head with a deduction of 2 skill.
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Post by terrysalt on Sept 16, 2022 23:52:13 GMT
On the subject of insta deaths (and this is controversial as people like this) a bugbearer of mine is if they tell me "Your Adventure Ends Here" or that I have died. Especially when the narrative makes the fact obvious. I'll read something like "The troll's axe lands clean into your neck severing your head from your body. Your head lies face up on the floor turning blue as your eyes lay with a lifeless stare, the rest of your body slumps to the floor as your heart beats it's last beat, squirting some blood onto the stony ground" At this point you do not need to tell me "You're adventure ends here" I grasped that from what I just read. I didnt think I was going to carry on without a head with a deduction of 2 skill. Even the fact that there's no instructions for where to turn next should be a bit of a clue.  |
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Post by nathanh on Sept 17, 2022 10:36:09 GMT
In contrast, I enjoy the repetition of the same phrase in so many of the endings. It's also a nice ending to close on if you're reading the book to someone else.
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Post by sleepyscholar on Sept 17, 2022 12:56:25 GMT
In contrast, I enjoy the repetition of the same phrase in so many of the endings. It's also a nice ending to close on if you're reading the book to someone else. Yes, it's clearly a sort of ritualistic flourish, akin to 'And they all lived happily ever after'. |
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Post by petch on Sept 18, 2022 8:07:09 GMT
I like to imagine it being said in Treguard's voice, sometimes adding my own mental 'oooh, nasty' depending on the graphicness of the death.
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Post by evilwizard on Oct 9, 2022 20:41:40 GMT
I have a preference for the more linear and old school dungeon style of gamebook so anything that has too much of what I see as the overlapping circle style is not for me.
The sci fi and modern setting books are not good except Spectral Stalkers and House of Hell. I don't know if its the setting or that the FF rules don't really work properly in them.
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