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Post by paperexplorer on Nov 17, 2022 7:00:35 GMT
"Dune" would be on my top 5 all time books
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Post by CharlesX on Nov 17, 2022 12:48:08 GMT
I'm most of the way through Final Blackout by L. Ron Hubbard (the A grade charlatan who founded Scientology), which I bought after reading praise from other sci-fi and fantasy authors and social media such as Wikipedia. Apparently it's one of L. Ron Hubbard's best, but if it's his best shot at doing pulp fiction, he's an awful pulp writer. It's heavily cliched, beyond illogical, tendentious, prosaic and over-detailed, humourless, has poor characterisation. Hubbard seems to be a military writer because there's excessive geographical and army references. If I were feeling extremely generous I might say Hubbard was a penny dreadful Churchill. If it seems like I'm being overly critical because I dislike Hubbard, and I do dislike Hubbard, I guess if you're really, really into pulp writers some of his best stuff might be for you, but based on reading this so-called hit of his I don't think so.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,547
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Nov 17, 2022 13:45:21 GMT
If I were feeling extremely generous I might say Hubbard was a penny dreadful Churchill. If it seems like I'm being overly critical because I dislike Hubbard, and I do dislike Hubbard, I guess if you're really, really into pulp writers some of his best stuff might be for you, but based on reading this so-called hit of his I don't think so. I read Battlefield Earth a while back out of curiosity and found it pretty enjoyable. Considering it's something like 1300 pages, it's very readable. Sure, the hero is so blandly perfect he's actually called 'Goodboy', but I found Terl an entertaining villain and enjoyed him trying to work out where he could gain the leverage in every scenario. I also thought at the time the way the Psychlos were defeated was well worked out even if it's scientifically dubious. The later parts with Earth entering galactic negotiations were also cartoonishly fun even though Hubbard couldn't resist sneaking in some Dianetic stuff. I wouldn't say it's a great work or anything but, hey, I enjoyed it. The foreword was very pretentious though - Hubbard has a rant about the difference between sci-fi and fantasy and how they must be kept separate. He also stressed that he would keep his religious views out of this work. Well, his sci-fi is pretty unconvincing and, as mentioned before, he definitely put plenty of his religious views in the later stages. I would agree with you he was a charlatan who promoted harmful practices, but my understanding is the really unpleasant aspects of Scientology only came about after his death and David Miscavige taking over.
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Post by scouserob on Nov 17, 2022 14:37:35 GMT
The Name of the Rose (Umberto Eco) 🌹 [Paperback] An Introduction to the Theory of Numbers (G. H. Hardy) [Trade Paperback] When Least is Best (Paul Nahin) [Kindle]
Recently: The Hydrogen Sonata (Iain M. Banks) The Song of Achilles (Madeline Miller) The Invisible Man (H. G. Wells) Sharpe’s Assassin (Bernard Cornwell)
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Post by paperexplorer on Nov 17, 2022 23:03:00 GMT
I read Battlefield Earth 20 odd years back. It's far from cerebral scifi, more of a swashbuckling action adventure, but from what I can remember it was a fun read. Definitely better than Final Blackout which does seem rather over rated. I also read one of Hubbard's westerns, though can't remember the title let alone the story.
Just started re-reading Childhood's End by Arthur C Clarke. It didn't make much impression the first time I read it, but I got curious to read it again given it's classic status. Clarke was always excellent for his ideas, but his characters were always lacking.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,547
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Nov 18, 2022 9:19:13 GMT
Just started re-reading Childhood's End by Arthur C Clarke. It didn't make much impression the first time I read it, but I got curious to read it again given it's classic status. Clarke was always excellent for his ideas, but his characters were always lacking. Haven't read much Clarke at all, but this matches with my limited experience
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Post by CharlesX on Nov 18, 2022 12:22:58 GMT
"Dune" would be on my top 5 all time books I've only seen Dune adaptations, ironically the very famous David Lynch one isn't the best (too dark, dated and dry - though Patrick Stewart is brilliant as always), but the miniseries are awesome and definitely makes me want to read Dune. So, have you ever read Frank Herbert's sequels, or the later ones (I think by Brian Herbert) written after he died? I've heard they follow the normal pattern of sequels (none as good as the original, each a bit worse than the last), but I imagine a Dune fan would love the sequels Frank Herbert wrote in his lifetime, if not the later ones.
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Post by bloodbeasthandler on Nov 18, 2022 13:01:37 GMT
Currently reading a couple: A Force Like no Other (by Colin Breen) real accounts told by members of the RUC in Northern Ireland in the 70's and 80's. Anger is an Energy (John Lydon aka Johnny Rotten) autobiography.
Just finished: The Future of War (collection of old Rogue Trooper stories from 2000AD Magazine)
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Post by scouserob on Nov 18, 2022 13:14:18 GMT
I like all of the original six Dune novels. Dune, Children of Dune and God Emperor of Dune are my favourites, possibly in the whole genre. God Emperor is still like nothing else I've ever read!
I also like Heretics of Dune and Chapterhouse Dune a lot, though they feel like a different series from the previous four. Dune Messiah, whilst good, is both very short and was a bit of a grim slog to get through.
I'd recommend all six of them.
I bought the first book of Prelude to Dune trilogy, written by Frank Herbert's son and Kevin J. Anderson, when it first came out. I was rather excited about it at the time. It started alright with House Atreides. Enjoyable maybe, but in retrospect coasting along on nostalgic goodwill, which ran out completely very early on whilst reading House Harknonnen. (Followed by the struggle through House Corrino, which I only read due to a compulsion for completion.) I wouldn't recommend them at all.
[Similar to my feelings regarding J.J. Abrams' pairs of movies for each of Star Trek and Star Wars. First of each is fun but hollow, coasting on goodwill from previous movies. The second of each is very bad.]
Anyhow, that is where I tapped out, though I see that the same pair of authors have written about another 14 Dune novels since that prelude series!!! Including two novels under the collective title of Dune 7 to follow Chapterhouse Dune. (So that would be Dune 7 and Dune 8?)
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Post by bloodbeasthandler on Nov 19, 2022 10:07:48 GMT
Nice to see some Dune fans round here! As with all great sci-fi it influences other creations [I'm thinking some of the concepts behind Warhammer 40,000] I thought the recent film was good and am looking forward to the next one. Also I take it people of a certain generation on here were playing the Dune computer game? Dune 2 was pretty inspirational really as one of those real time strategy games. The Dune Boardgame (the one that dates initially from the 1970s] can be good fun too. It has been rereleased more recently.
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Post by paperexplorer on Nov 25, 2022 0:58:51 GMT
I used to play emperor: battle for dune. A lot. Not as good as Red Alert 2 though.
I tapped out early in the dune books despitemy love of the first. I like to read widely, I'm not a "that book was great, now I can't wait to read another ten sequels" kind of reader
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Post by CharlesX on Dec 30, 2022 14:37:19 GMT
So, finally finished reading Final Blackout, and my view hasn't changed from when I was 80% through - I get the feeling Hubbard might be a good scribe elsewhere, but not in Final Blackout, which is rather cliche-ridden and certainly isn't the masterpiece it's been painted as by some other sci-fi writers imho. While Hubbard is OK at describing bigger battles, he can't seem to describe close combat at all, and on a slightly related point he is poor at characterisation (this was never Asimov's strong suit, but Asimov's work wasn't as one-dimensional as Hubbard's). Next I will be reading The Cuckoo's Calling by J K Rowling.
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Post by tyrion on Dec 30, 2022 15:36:48 GMT
Late to the party, but I've just finished Dune, which I'd never read before. I think I may have been put off by the David Lynch film way back when and never bothered.
Anyway, I can see why it's rated so highly, even if the first 80 pages or so are hard work.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Feb 4, 2023 3:46:49 GMT
Hesitating to post in this thread as it appears to have become a Dune-zone, and my knowledge of that/those book(s)/franchise is limited to remembering half the lyrics to Weapon of Choice... I don't read as much, especially fiction, as I should. The most recent fiction books were A Taste for Death – the third PD James book I've read, and I think the last as it really tested my patience and settled my opinion of her work – and John Le Carré's final book Silverview. I can recommend the latter. Having asked for some easygoing detective fiction at Christmas, I'm just starting Richard Osman's The Thursday Murder Club. I must read something more heavyweight after that!
The most recent non-fiction I've read is Nothing but the Truth by The Secret Barrister, which is sort of her (I think) autobiographical take on that role in terms of bafflement, exasperation, some belly laughs and her own changing political views. It's extremely readable, in spite of the structure being a bit one-damn-thing-after-another. A quality index wouldn't have gone amiss. Next I will be reading The Cuckoo's Calling by J K Rowling. Any good? That one or any of the other Strike novels? I've enjoyed the BBC adaptations so far, although the more recent ones felt like they were struggling to capture the whole narrative somehow.
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Post by CharlesX on Feb 4, 2023 8:18:59 GMT
Hesitating to post in this thread as it appears to have become a Dune-zone, and my knowledge of that/those book(s)/franchise is limited to remembering half the lyrics to Weapon of Choice... I don't read as much, especially fiction, as I should. The most recent fiction books were A Taste for Death – the third PD James book I've read, and I think the last as it really tested my patience and settled my opinion of her work – and John Le Carré's final book Silverview. I can recommend the latter. Having asked for some easygoing detective fiction at Christmas, I'm just starting Richard Osman's The Thursday Murder Club. I must read something more heavyweight after that!
The most recent non-fiction I've read is Nothing but the Truth by The Secret Barrister, which is sort of her (I think) autobiographical take on that role in terms of bafflement, exasperation, some belly laughs and her own changing political views. It's extremely readable, in spite of the structure being a bit one-damn-thing-after-another. A quality index wouldn't have gone amiss. Next I will be reading The Cuckoo's Calling by J K Rowling. Any good? That one or any of the other Strike novels? I've enjoyed the BBC adaptations so far, although the more recent ones felt like they were struggling to capture the whole narrative somehow. I'm only 55 pages in as I'm a slow reader, so basically still in the set-up zone rather than middle section and end. It's well-written, engaging and convincing, although a touch cliche and predictable (but nothing like to the extent of that overrated and rubbish Hubbard work I just read). I haven't read any other Strike novels or seen BBC adaptations, I'd read more on the basis of this though.
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Post by Pete Byrdie on Feb 4, 2023 9:42:42 GMT
I don't read much fiction, but I have recently downloaded for Kindle all the Professor Challenger stories and started The Lost World again before moving on to the stories I've never read before.
In non-fiction, I'm finishing Afterlives- The Return of the Dead in the Middle Ages, about medieval attitudes to the dead returning physically or in spirit, and I have Myths of the Dog-Man lined up next, which I suppose is about cynocephali legends.
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Post by CharlesX on Feb 4, 2023 10:06:20 GMT
I don't read much fiction, but I have recently downloaded for Kindle all the Professor Challenger stories and started The Lost World again before moving on to the stories I've never read before. In non-fiction, I'm finishing Afterlives- The Return of the Dead in the Middle Ages, about medieval attitudes to the dead returning physically or in spirit, and I have Myths of the Dog-Man lined up next, which I suppose is about cynocephali legends. Always been a big fan of Arthur Conan Doyle's non-detective stories, like Winston Churchill I think they're at least as good as his more well-known Sherlock Holmes works. The Lost World is definitely a favourite.
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Post by Pete Byrdie on Feb 4, 2023 10:58:40 GMT
I don't read much fiction, but I have recently downloaded for Kindle all the Professor Challenger stories and started The Lost World again before moving on to the stories I've never read before. In non-fiction, I'm finishing Afterlives- The Return of the Dead in the Middle Ages, about medieval attitudes to the dead returning physically or in spirit, and I have Myths of the Dog-Man lined up next, which I suppose is about cynocephali legends. Always been a big fan of Arthur Conan Doyle's non-detective stories, like Winston Churchill I think they're at least as good as his more well-known Sherlock Holmes works. The Lost World is definitely a favourite. I've been a Sherlock Holmes fan since childhood, but the only other Conan Doyle I've read is The Lost World and a handful of short stories. He's always very readable.
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Post by zoefoster on Feb 9, 2023 12:27:57 GMT
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Post by CharlesX on Feb 24, 2023 13:52:03 GMT
Late to the party, but I've just finished Dune, which I'd never read before. I think I may have been put off by the David Lynch film way back when and never bothered. Anyway, I can see why it's rated so highly, even if the first 80 pages or so are hard work. I swear this whole message board has been overrun by a Frank Herbert Dune Appreciation Society or something. Either way, I thought the David Lynch film 'had good intentions but didn't work' but the miniseries I saw was outstanding. Based partly on the miniseries, and praise here and elsewhere, I will be reading Dune as my next book when I finish Rowling's A Cuckoo's Calling in the summer. By the way I'm enjoying A Cuckoo's Calling, the half I've read of it, Rowling's writing style can grate in that she is writes like a hack (albeit a good one), but she is definitely a talented storyteller.
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Post by tyrion on Feb 25, 2023 18:42:38 GMT
I'm working my way through the Sharpe series, in chronological order. I'd forgotten what an excellent writer Bernard Cornwell is!
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Post by CharlesX on Apr 29, 2023 20:57:19 GMT
I am almost through Rowling's A Cuckoo's Calling so deciding what to read next. Ages ago I got Frederik Pohl's Sci-fi novel Gateway, which I might read as he's a really good sci-fi writer, and Dune which I intend to read as I've heard it's brilliant and intend to at least read Dune at some point (not so sure about the sequels). I also got Coming Of The Terraphiles ages ago and never got around to reading that, which is an original Doctor Who novel by Michael Moorcock - you might think Doctor Who meets Michael Moorecock is win-win, but I've heard criticizm it isn't faithful enough to Doctor Who and Moorcock's style is too smug and superficial. I like crime fiction growing up and A Cuckoo's Calling is as well-written as any, but it doesn't seem deep enough to me, I would say I preferred her Harry Potter but I don't even think that's particularly well-written. Rowling seems good at writing books that pander to audiences and not so good at writing books that are really ground-breaking.
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Post by paperexplorer on May 9, 2023 3:25:39 GMT
Gateway and Dune are both classics to me.
Right now I'm closing on finishing Eon by Greg Bear(RIP).
Bear sure does flood his scifi with big ideas, but it does come with shortcomings. There's a huge cast of characters with very little to differentiate them as they take a back seat to everything else. Also, why do all the women want to have sex with Lanier? Because he's smart and in power? Male scifi authors need to be better that that. Still,book is a solid 4 out 5 just for the weight of ideas and events, even with characterisation lacking as it is.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,547
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on May 9, 2023 7:40:04 GMT
Right now I'm closing on finishing Eon by Greg Bear(RIP). Ah didn't realise he died. Only read two of his books (Blood Music and City at the End of Time), but enjoyed them both a lot. One thing I really liked about Blood Music is the first half has very intelligent people trying to understand what's going on but then as things get completely out of hand, the point-of view shifts to a character with a learning disability, completely changing how it all seems to the reader. I don't think I understood more than 5% of City at the End of Time, but I thought it was very cool nonetheless. I must read more of his stuff. Forge of God has been sitting on my shelf for about 10 years. Recently finished An Artificial Night by Seanan McGuire, which is the third book in her October Daye urban fantasy series about a half-fairy private detective. I liked the first two, but I think this one really embraced the concept and had a really strong mythic atmosphere.
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Post by CharlesX on May 20, 2023 15:55:17 GMT
So, finished Cuckoo's Calling and ready for my appraisal. On the plus side, Rowling is definitely a writer of some ability, evocative, a master of pacing and excitement. It's also relatively developed with lots of well-drawn characters (they rarely seem simplistic). I'm not terribly surprised Rowling is so commercially successful, even if it can be hard to tell what will and will not become a hit (I heard sales of Cuckoo's Calling were just a bit above average before Rowling revealed she was the actual author). However.. Too often characters will say and do things that are deeply unnecessary and do nothing at all to develop plot or anything else, presumably to resonate with audiences but to me it comes across as wooden and absolutely superfluous (e.g. excessive swearing, long conversations about family, fashion and business, jealousy and exaggerated character traits that aren't most realistic, but more than all that a number of convoluted and essentially pointless cliffhangers to end chapters that come because characters operate illogically). Rowling has a habit of name-dropping, beginning most chapters with a quote from a seriously obscure Roman or Greek philosopher which I charitably didn't mind the first few times but became irritated with by the end of the book, Rowling also name-drops several others:
Private Eye about three or so times, even though she doesn't sound like a fan and it does nothing to serve either the book or Private Eye, and Alfred Tennyson, who seems to me no more worthy of a passing mention than those BC philosophers. I've also noticed Rowling tends to write long books, partly because she emphasizes specific events and descriptions more than themes and worlds. Anyway, like I said before I can't make my mind up which of the next three books to read, so I'm going with all three at the same time. Dune by Frank Herbert, Coming Of The Terraphiles by Michael Moorcock (however you spell those two names) and Gateway by Frederik Pohl.
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Post by CharlesX on Jun 2, 2023 14:55:27 GMT
So, probably shouldn't comment on a book before finishing it, but after reading 75 pages of Frederik Pohl's Gateway I'm struggling with the premise of his Gateway. I've great respect for Fredereik Pohl, having read (and liked) at least one of both his novels and short stories before. I'm going to quote the blurb to help illustrate my point:
So, I don't think it's a big spoiler that getting into Gateway is expensive, neither that entire multiples more % of these trips come back dead than those which return with things. Am I just unimaginative that I wouldn't take that kind of risk even if I were paid to? Then again Frederik Pohl is imho known more for brave concepts than for being particularly technically rigorous; as I remember from previously reading Midas World the premise of which was machines were producing too much for workers and so everybody had to race to consume as much as possible, with the poor living in mansions and the rich in cottages (cool concept, but unrealistic as a scenario).
Sorry for going all ot and ranting and probably stirring up a flamewar with Pohl fanboys who will reply, just wanted to get this criticism off my chest.
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Post by scouserob on Jun 2, 2023 20:57:48 GMT
Skipping over the maths and Fighting Fantasy books I’m on with at the moment, I’m starting Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy. I’ve read every Le Carré up to this point and they have ranged from damn good to fantastic (The Spy Who Came in From the Cold was magnificent!).
Looking forward to this one. 😀
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Post by paperexplorer on Jun 2, 2023 23:13:02 GMT
So, probably shouldn't comment on a book before finishing it, but after reading 75 pages of Frederik Pohl's Gateway I'm struggling with the premise of his Gateway. I've great respect for Fredereik Pohl, having read (and liked) at least one of both his novels and short stories before. I'm going to quote the blurb to help illustrate my point:
So, I don't think it's a big spoiler that getting into Gateway is expensive, neither that entire multiples more % of these trips come back dead than those which return with things. Am I just unimaginative that I wouldn't take that kind of risk even if I were paid to? Then again Frederik Pohl is imho known more for brave concepts than for being particularly technically rigorous; as I remember from previously reading Midas World the premise of which was machines were producing too much for workers and so everybody had to race to consume as much as possible, with the poor living in mansions and the rich in cottages (cool concept, but unrealistic as a scenario).
Sorry for going all ot and ranting and probably stirring up a flamewar with Pohl fanboys who will reply, just wanted to get this criticism off my chest.
You're probably going a little early. I have to admit there are times I've had to suspend my disbelief on a premise in a sci-fi book to get through. I didn't have that problem with Gateway though. I think you need to read on as without spoiling too much, it is the stress of making those trips that is core to the story.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,547
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Jun 9, 2023 19:02:59 GMT
I've been slowly making my way through Stephen King's books, reading them in publication order because it seems as good a way to do it as any. Just finished The Long Walk which I'd never heard of before and by God, it's intense. Probably my favourite so far.
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Post by CharlesX on Jun 9, 2023 20:05:50 GMT
I've been slowly making my way through Stephen King's books, reading them in publication order because it seems as good a way to do it as any. Just finished The Long Walk which I'd never heard of before and by God, it's intense. Probably my favourite so far. I've tried reading Stephen King before, but his writing style is too long-winded for me, especially as his approach seems to me to be to amalgamate and retell old stories rather than write things that are original or surprising. I don't like most of the films based on his work, either, including Shawshank Redemption (over-sentimental and overrated), although I did like that film based on the ultra-dangerous room, probably because only Stephen King could take a concept that nuts and get it to work.
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