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Post by bloodbeasthandler on Jun 15, 2021 19:30:46 GMT
5. Judgement/common sense - this is quite general, really anything from remembering to use heavy blunt weapons against skeletons and avoiding 'red wine' in a vampire's abode to using the side door/window rather than the front door when you know your presence isn't wanted. I like this one to play an important role in these sorts of books. It could also be an opportunity for the reader to actually learn something, too. For example a gamebook could include sections where you are trying to escape from a pursuing army in a hostile land. You could be given the option to travel exclusively at night and hide and sleep during the day. Decide not to build a campfire which would attract attention. Keep interactions with the locals to a minimum rather than question every Tom, Dick and Harry. Move stealthily. Avoid combat. Wear a disguise. Time could be a factor where there is a genuine balance between searching every single location thoroughly and getting a move on. I've previously mentioned something about exploring the arctic areas without warm clothing [or in FF, magic protection from the cold]. Things like that ought to be made very important. Breaking these 'rules' could result in everything from little to no penalty at all, or simply taking a different path... all the way to utter disaster. |
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Post by sleepyscholar on Jun 22, 2021 23:25:52 GMT
Oh that was just in excel, I’ve not had time to throw together a python script but I will post it here when I do, no worries Actually, if you could just pop that table in a time machine and send it back to me in London, 1986, I'd be dead grateful. |
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Post by Charles X. on Jul 22, 2021 19:35:46 GMT
My favourite FF books would be more non-linear such as Demons Of The Deep, more epic such as Night Dragon, and more moderate in difficulty such as most of them except say Crypt and MOM. I also prefer it if not everything is combat, although Knights Of Doom arguably works with that method.
Books don't have to stick to 400 references, COH for one example has an epic feel about it with more references, Freeway Fighter is possibly in the top half of sci-fi with fewer references. Although Eye Of The Dragon has over 400 references and sucks.
A well-designed magic system can work, FF hasn't been brave enough with magic, although the Sorcery! books are great. New rules can add flavour, but not if they are oppressive such as Fear in HOH where you have to start with 3 or higher, or you're doomed, or irrelevant such as the little-used Nemesis in Night Dragon.
Legend Of Zagor tried new things and got some right and several things wrong with the unbalanced character system, magic system, and excessive combats.
Good writing and artwork definitely helps.
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sylas
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Post by sylas on Jul 23, 2021 0:27:10 GMT
The 3 Stephen Hand books are possibly as close to perfection as you might get in Fighting Fantasy. The other titles are personal preference.
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Post by sleepyscholar on Jul 23, 2021 12:12:04 GMT
The 3 Stephen Hand books are possibly as close to perfection as you might get in Fighting Fantasy. The other titles are personal preference. The funny thing is, although I pretty much agree with you, I guarantee there will be someone here who hates them. |
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Post by drmanhattan on Jul 30, 2021 10:09:48 GMT
I've not played any Stephen Hand books but I find it hard to imagine anything that is more "pure FF" than Deathtrap Dungeon. To me, it encapsulates everything that was great about FF, even with a somewhat cliched theme. The only way it could have been better would be perhaps a couple of visual Tasks of Tantalon style clues in one of the illustrations or something. The only other way to improve would have been a double book box set where in one book you play as a wizard where some changes to the book made it work well with spellcasting. Actually an extended edition where you could play any of the original contestants would have been cool (but hard to do and lengthy!), imagine being Throm and then meeting up with an overexcited wee lad from Rotherham who'd made it all that way through the trial and wanted to team up.
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sylas
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Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Jul 30, 2021 19:10:45 GMT
The 3 Stephen Hand books are possibly as close to perfection as you might get in Fighting Fantasy. The other titles are personal preference. The funny thing is, although I pretty much agree with you, I guarantee there will be someone here who hates them. Pretty difficult to have a FF book that is universally liked but these 3 are probably the ones that are the least hated. I myself am guilty of not being a fan of seriously popular classics such as Creature of Havoc, The Crown of Kings and Trial of Champions. |
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sylas
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Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Jul 30, 2021 19:19:33 GMT
I've not played any Stephen Hand books but I find it hard to imagine anything that is more "pure FF" than Deathtrap Dungeon. To me, it encapsulates everything that was great about FF, even with a somewhat cliched theme. The only way it could have been better would be perhaps a couple of visual Tasks of Tantalon style clues in one of the illustrations or something. The only other way to improve would have been a double book box set where in one book you play as a wizard where some changes to the book made it work well with spellcasting. Actually an extended edition where you could play any of the original contestants would have been cool (but hard to do and lengthy!), imagine being Throm and then meeting up with an overexcited wee lad from Rotherham who'd made it all that way through the trial and wanted to team up. Deathtrap Dungeon is as classic FF as FF can be. But if we're including the gaming aspect for a perfect 'game'book, it leaves a lot to be desired. Funnily enough, ages ago, I had a go at writing Deathrap Dungeon 3 (though nothing much of it came to light) and designed it to be playable as each of the 5 contestants: a Paladin, a Dark Elf, a Weaponmaster, an Orc Chief and a Necromancer, in a sort of Legend of Zagor approach. Alas it ended up as too difficult a task. |
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Post by daredevil123 on Jul 30, 2021 19:54:39 GMT
The funny thing is, although I pretty much agree with you, I guarantee there will be someone here who hates them. Pretty difficult to have a FF book that is universally liked but these 3 are probably the ones that are the least hated. I myself am guilty of not being a fan of seriously popular classics such as Creature of Havoc, The Crown of Kings and Trial of Champions. Is Trial of Champions that well-liked? I thought it was generally regarded as sadistically difficult and clearly inferior to Deathtrap Dungeon. |
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Post by philsadler on Jul 30, 2021 20:12:59 GMT
Deathtrap Dungeon is as classic FF as FF can be. But if we're including the gaming aspect for a perfect 'game'book, it leaves a lot to be desired. Funnily enough, ages ago, I had a go at writing Deathrap Dungeon 3 (though nothing much of it came to light) and designed it to be playable as each of the 5 contestants: a Paladin, a Dark Elf, a Weaponmaster, an Orc Chief and a Necromancer, in a sort of Legend of Zagor approach. Alas it ended up as too difficult a task.
I had a go at the exact same thing, but it got too difficult for me too. No matter what I did, some were obviously better than others. Anyway, my own homage eventually came to light, minus the character choice, as 'Deathtrap'. Available on the amateur section of this site.
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Post by philsadler on Jul 30, 2021 20:13:52 GMT
Pretty difficult to have a FF book that is universally liked but these 3 are probably the ones that are the least hated. I myself am guilty of not being a fan of seriously popular classics such as Creature of Havoc, The Crown of Kings and Trial of Champions. Is Trial of Champions that well-liked? I thought it was generally regarded as sadistically difficult and clearly inferior to Deathtrap Dungeon.
I would have said the same thing. After all, the only real fault with DD is that it requires very high stats to beat ... and TOC was even harder!
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Post by Charles X. on Jul 30, 2021 20:32:33 GMT
Pretty difficult to have a FF book that is universally liked but these 3 are probably the ones that are the least hated. I myself am guilty of not being a fan of seriously popular classics such as Creature of Havoc, The Crown of Kings and Trial of Champions. Is Trial of Champions that well-liked? I thought it was generally regarded as sadistically difficult and clearly inferior to Deathtrap Dungeon. I thought Trial Of Champions was outstanding and miles better than Deathtrap Dungeon. Yes, the difficulty level was higher. The game felt so much more real. It was old-school but original at the same time; not just about combat after combat, with an RPG feel about it. The illustrations were also amazing and imho better than those in Deathtrap Dungeon. My view is not shared by most FF fans, however. |
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kieran
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Post by kieran on Jul 30, 2021 21:42:55 GMT
Is Trial of Champions that well-liked? I thought it was generally regarded as sadistically difficult and clearly inferior to Deathtrap Dungeon. It finished a very underwhelming 39th in Wilf's poll so I think you're right there. |
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sylas
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Post by sylas on Jul 30, 2021 22:16:07 GMT
Trial of Champions not quite as popular as I thought it was then. Although I've heard many praise the Arena of Death part especially, even though it was a bit meh for me. Wasn't a fan of the artwork either. But then, I'm also not a huge fan of Lone Wolf.
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