kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,458
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Aug 19, 2020 11:36:50 GMT
Recently got this book, and finished it eventually. It's been interesting looking for alt solutions but they're all basically the same. My issue is, theres anlot of content in this book which makes for an interesting adventure, but unless you ignore most of it and take the path to the library to get the code, can this book be beaten? Yes, you need the code from the library to beat the book. You can see a bit more of the Citadel by getting throw in jail and then exploring the basement level, but there's definitely a lot of great encounters in other parts of the book you have to avoid to be successful.
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Post by Charles X. on Jul 9, 2021 19:48:28 GMT
One of the greatest books in the series, with great atmosphere and writing. Only problem, the difficulty level is pitched pretty easy. Normally the other way around with FF, except for FOD and a couple of books which can be completed without any random rolls (ST and GOD). Somewhere round the first few works, the writers ditched the notion 'any hero can make it through, no matter what their starting scores'. In fairness other gamebooks also had poor difficulty curves, Lone Wolf alternated between too easy and too hard, Way Of The Tiger had unfair fights and my own favourite series Golden Dragon could be too tough at times. The random rolls in AOD and MOM, and the 'roll three times, doubles kill you' are both tedious and unfair. Sometimes it feels like they are just trying to make these things hard because they reckon harder is better. It's ripe for parody.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,678
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Jul 9, 2021 21:17:55 GMT
One of the greatest books in the series, with great atmosphere and writing. Only problem, the difficulty level is pitched pretty easy. Normally the other way around with FF, except for FOD and a couple of books which can be completed without any random rolls (ST and GOD). Somewhere round the first few works, the writers ditched the notion 'any hero can make it through, no matter what their starting scores'. In fairness other gamebooks also had poor difficulty curves, Lone Wolf alternated between too easy and too hard, Way Of The Tiger had unfair fights and my own favourite series Golden Dragon could be too tough at times. The random rolls in AOD and MOM, and the 'roll three times, doubles kill you' are both tedious and unfair. Sometimes it feels like they are just trying to make these things hard because they reckon harder is better. It's ripe for parody. Way of the Tiger had a massive look into the fairness of combats and made a huge 'balance patch' to many of the fights and encounters for the re-release books. The series as a whole is reasonably difficult but you can begin with any choice of Skills and still have a good chance of winning through. The only really tough part is book 3 so make sure you save some form of healing for it.
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Post by farhad on Mar 19, 2022 8:47:33 GMT
The Charmed Amulet always sounded like the right thing for protection against the Ganjees. I can't seem to remember anything at all about it though, such as its location, and the effect it has on them.
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Post by fingersonthepages on Nov 29, 2022 18:34:40 GMT
Hot take: in terms of gameplay and fairness, this is the best of all the FF books and one of the few with a sensible True Path that is neither too easy nor unintuive bs (beyond perhaps obtaining the ointment necessary to overcome the Ganjees)
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Post by CharlesX on Nov 29, 2022 20:20:15 GMT
Hot take: in terms of gameplay and fairness, this is the best of all the FF books and one of the few with a sensible True Path that is neither too easy nor unintuive bs (beyond perhaps obtaining the ointment necessary to overcome the Ganjees) Of course, this depends on whether one would prefer a level of challenge via the true path - it is very likely you will win were you to roll minimum stats, which is not for everyone. Perhaps Keep Of The Lich-Lord would offer a moderate challenge, and also doesn't necessitate the player obtaining a jar of ointment and an obscure code combination, but rather can be completed even on one's first go. I personally prefer gamebooks which 'feel like' a game, meaning I sometimes prefer some challenge (nothing excessive), and gameplay that is less linear rather than either 'true path' or illogical. Ian Livingstone is awful for making players choose between a bajillion useless items and two which will be useful later on, making players do illogical things to gain essential items, and poor characterisation. As you say Citadel Of Chaos has a rich, memorable world filled with RPG-esque, Shakespearian characters (O' Seamus, the Black Elf, and so on).
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Post by fingersonthepages on Dec 1, 2022 13:15:30 GMT
Hot take: in terms of gameplay and fairness, this is the best of all the FF books and one of the few with a sensible True Path that is neither too easy nor unintuive bs (beyond perhaps obtaining the ointment necessary to overcome the Ganjees) Of course, this depends on whether one would prefer a level of challenge via the true path - it is very likely you will win were you to roll minimum stats, which is not for everyone. Perhaps Keep Of The Lich-Lord would offer a moderate challenge, and also doesn't necessitate the player obtaining a jar of ointment and an obscure code combination, but rather can be completed even on one's first go. I personally prefer gamebooks which 'feel like' a game, meaning I sometimes prefer some challenge (nothing excessive), and gameplay that is less linear rather than either 'true path' or illogical. Ian Livingstone is awful for making players choose between a bajillion useless items and two which will be useful later on, making players do illogical things to gain essential items, and poor characterisation. As you say Citadel Of Chaos has a rich, memorable world filled with RPG-esque, Shakespearian characters (O' Seamus, the Black Elf, and so on).
Whats so bad about being able to win with minimun stats? You're highly unlikely to beat Citadel of Chaos on your first try, and its quiet probable you'll end up fighting Balthus DIre directly unless you know his arbitary weakness
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Post by CharlesX on Dec 1, 2022 13:35:43 GMT
Of course, this depends on whether one would prefer a level of challenge via the true path - it is very likely you will win were you to roll minimum stats, which is not for everyone. Perhaps Keep Of The Lich-Lord would offer a moderate challenge, and also doesn't necessitate the player obtaining a jar of ointment and an obscure code combination, but rather can be completed even on one's first go. I personally prefer gamebooks which 'feel like' a game, meaning I sometimes prefer some challenge (nothing excessive), and gameplay that is less linear rather than either 'true path' or illogical. Ian Livingstone is awful for making players choose between a bajillion useless items and two which will be useful later on, making players do illogical things to gain essential items, and poor characterisation. As you say Citadel Of Chaos has a rich, memorable world filled with RPG-esque, Shakespearian characters (O' Seamus, the Black Elf, and so on).
Whats so bad about being able to win with minimun stats? You're highly unlikely to beat Citadel of Chaos on your first try, and its quiet probable you'll end up fighting Balthus DIre directly unless you know his arbitary weakness It's just as likely you'll end up insta-dying with Balthus Dire - the encounter can be incredibly dark, with a possible incredibly tough fight versus yourself, followed by certain instant death, or where he corners you, and in classic Jackson sadism, you are given several options which all lead to an inevitable death. I like Citadel Of Chaos, like you, just don't think it's perfect (it was only the second FF, after all). I've no issue either way with winning with minimum stats - I just sometimes prefer a slight challenge, such as one given by Space Assassin. Subjectively, and that's just as valid as preferring a gamebook you win with minimum stats 90% of the time. Maybe because I play a lot of gamebooks with CYOA mechanics, I sometimes like some risk of failure, just not an outrageous one (as many FF can be).
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Post by King Gillibran on Dec 22, 2022 9:09:15 GMT
one interesting thing is that you can win without using magic. If you actually fight Dire.
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Post by johnbrawn1972 on Jun 14, 2023 18:21:44 GMT
-E.S.P -Levitation x2 -Luck x2(+3 luck) -Stamina(+7 stamina) -Weakness x2 -Will you pose as a herbalist -Kylltrog -Tiptoe through the shadows towards one of the groups -or the group around the fire -Sit down with them around the fire -Will you press them for more information about the vial -Or you may draw your sword and fight -Dwarf sk5 st6 Goblin sk6 st4 Orc sk5 st7(use 1 luck for extra damage)(cast stamina spell) 14st-12st-10st-8st-14st 6L -copper coloured key, jar of dark creamy ointment, Potion of Magik 2 doses -towards the Citadel -Will you ignore her and continue -Make your anger obvious to her -knock three times for the guard -If so -Scimitar -go forwards to the door -Will you ring as instructed -believe him and take the left fork -risk tiptoeing into the room -Prepare to use a spell -A Weakness Spell -Gark sk5 st5 - 6gp, ornate Hairbrush 6gp -the right-hand door -Will you enter as instructed -Secrets of the Black Tower -or you may leave the room through the door at the far end -Investigate the paintings - +1 luck. -1 stamina 14st-13st 7L -or the right-hand staircase -The door to the left -Use a Copper Key -Tell her you have a special gift for her -A Hairbrush - 2d6 <=luck=Golden Fleece(when luck=4 cast luck spell iterate) 6L -Will you take the left-hand door -Ignore the box and walk round the trench to the other door - -1 skill. -2 stamina. -1 luck. Feel in your backpack for an artefact 6S 13st-11st 5L -A Jar of Ointment(cast stamina spell if you have one) -Use something from your backpack -A Golden Fleece -turn 217 -Try quickly to side-step the weapon(cast luck spell if you have one) - 2d6 <=luck=-2 stamina >luck=-5 stamina 11st-6st 4L -Cast a Weakness Spell -An E.S.P Spell -A Levitation Spell -Over to the window -Pull one of the drapes down and throw it over his head -If so
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Post by CharlesX on Apr 3, 2024 13:03:40 GMT
A very rough % chance of completing an FF worked out by extrapolating Champskees Table Skill, 3 permutations for Stamina and Luck.
Citadel Of Chaos Odds of Victory 96.8%
Technically 96.82%
This is true, there are some 99.9%\extremely high scores for higher Skill adventurers which are largely\totally down to failing the Luck test for the Golden Fleece. I'd say 'correct' odds might be higher than given, perhaps closer to 96.85%; especially were you to allow for Stamina as well (because the average Stamina roll 19 is a touch higher than the given figure of 18).
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