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Post by tyrion on Jul 11, 2020 9:27:56 GMT
Last round star strider was eliminated, leaving just one sci-fi book in this group.
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Post by The Count on Jul 11, 2020 12:15:42 GMT
Robot Commando to go please.
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Post by deadshadowrunner on Jul 11, 2020 12:39:20 GMT
Easy Midnight Rogue for me. Poor design and special skill system with mediocre gameplay and plot. Robot Commando doesn't have a great plot but I really like the gameplay, and it's one of the few books in Fighting Fantasy where I actually enjoy the fighting and not just have it be a boring series of dice rolls. Something about finding a new mech and seeing its cool abilities just gets me excited.
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Post by philsadler on Jul 11, 2020 13:34:37 GMT
Trial for me. It's like an even more unfair Deathtrap but without the innovation and with an annoying section tagged on to the beginning. No thanks.
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Post by stevendoig on Jul 11, 2020 18:21:44 GMT
Still sticking with Robot - aboot time!!
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Post by Peter on Jul 11, 2020 23:43:45 GMT
Going back to my premise of being stuck on a desert island with only these books for company, all of them offer something different in terms of storyline, gameplay options, or setting. If I were to re-write a book with errors and weaknesses repaired, or write a new book in the same setting, or just write a novel based on the storyline, most of these ones would provide plenty of opportunity. My vote is for the one that offers the least potential for this - it is the most expendable.
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Post by bloodbeasthandler on Jul 12, 2020 6:09:52 GMT
Midnight Rogue getting more votes than I expected. Its two weaknesses are the 'If you don't go to that certain section of town first, you lose' and the rather linear dungeon-crawl at the end.
But I thought the premise was an interesting one.
I liked that you could target different places in turn. I thought it was atmospheric.
Most of all i thought Graeme Davis handled creeping about at night in Port Blacksand and its locations rather well and I enjoyed revisiting the city.
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Post by tyrion on Jul 12, 2020 10:36:56 GMT
Midnight rogue is a fun adventure. Despite the premise of the book and the skills, it doesn't feel like it is doing anything new. But entertaining nevertheless.
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Post by Wilf on Jul 12, 2020 11:59:58 GMT
Midnight Rogue reads like badly-written fan fiction. It's a decent idea very poorly handled, and with decisions that a particularly thick four-year-old wouldn't have trouble with (e.g. you're told in the background that the merchant's symbol is a coin, so do you enter the house marked with a coin or the one marked with an oar?), and skills that are near-irrelevant (the ones you actually need you can acquire via items along the way). And the inability to visit The Noose after the other locations is inexplicable and unforgivable. And then there's the prose style... I've no love for this one at all, and I've been voting for it constantly from the very start.
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Post by a moderator on Jul 12, 2020 15:45:01 GMT
decisions that a particularly thick four-year-old wouldn't have trouble with (e.g. you're told in the background that the merchant's symbol is a coin, so do you enter the house marked with a coin or the one marked with an oar?) And what's worse, you're actually rewarded for making the wrong decision there!
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Post by bloodbeasthandler on Jul 12, 2020 16:12:25 GMT
Midnight Rogue reads like badly-written fan fiction. It's a decent idea very poorly handled, and with decisions that a particularly thick four-year-old wouldn't have trouble with (e.g. you're told in the background that the merchant's symbol is a coin, so do you enter the house marked with a coin or the one marked with an oar?), and skills that are near-irrelevant (the ones you actually need you can acquire via items along the way). And the inability to visit The Noose after the other locations is inexplicable and unforgivable. And then there's the prose style... I've no love for this one at all, and I've been voting for it constantly from the very start. Another example of a book i am going to have to re-read!
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,547
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Jul 12, 2020 16:13:34 GMT
I'm no massive Midnight Rogue fan but I do enjoy burglarising the merchants' guild and Brass' house. The bit just before uncovering the dungeon is quite atmospheric too. If the Noose was optional and the dungeon less, well, dull, I think it would be a solid book. As it is, I rank it still ahead of two on this list.
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Post by vastariner on Jul 12, 2020 22:50:21 GMT
decisions that a particularly thick four-year-old wouldn't have trouble with (e.g. you're told in the background that the merchant's symbol is a coin, so do you enter the house marked with a coin or the one marked with an oar?) And what's worse, you're actually rewarded for making the wrong decision there! Quite right. Why would you trust what you've been told by thieves?
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,744
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Jul 12, 2020 23:59:01 GMT
Robot Commando is quite enjoyable but it's the weakest link here.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,547
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Jul 13, 2020 1:49:56 GMT
Quite right. Why would you trust what you've been told by thieves? What they tell you is correct though, it just happens that there is an advantage to ignoring their advice in this instance.
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 810
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Jul 13, 2020 18:31:46 GMT
Robot Commando is quite enjoyable but it's the weakest link here. No doubt about that. Weak book.
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Post by a moderator on Jul 13, 2020 20:05:17 GMT
Robot Commando is quite enjoyable but it's the weakest link here. I'll take it over ' Deathtrap Dungeon redux, but with less atmosphere, fewer memorable characters, greatly increased linearity and drastically reduced odds of surviving even with the highest possible stats'.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,744
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Jul 13, 2020 22:24:05 GMT
Robot Commando is quite enjoyable but it's the weakest link here. I'll take it over ' Deathtrap Dungeon redux, but with less atmosphere, fewer memorable characters, greatly increased linearity and drastically reduced odds of surviving even with the highest possible stats'. Trial of Champions has obvious problems but it also has many great scenes and encounters. The story is more interesting than Robot by a long way, especially the Arena of Death sequence. But it quickly degrades after that and the 'get this shopping list or die' soon becomes exhausting. Still, it's written well and has a clear goal from beginning to end whereas Robot, while fun, is more 'go wherever you want, do whatever you like, and maybe your actions will mean something', which is pretty weak.
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Post by The Count on Jul 14, 2020 1:14:16 GMT
Trial for me. It's like an even more unfair Deathtrap but without the innovation and with an annoying section tagged on to the beginning. No thanks. As much as I like seeing your railings against Livingstone ruining his books with unfair and tediously linear slogs, I much prefer Trial to Deathtrap - to the extent that it's my favourite of his books. Granted, it still suffers from being a Livingstone book and has some sections that needed more work, but it's supposed to be (even more) impossible in universe so it makes sense that it is very difficult to complete - making the usual Livingstone method acceptable. Also unlike Deathtrap, you aren't forced into becoming best friends with another contestant, you don't immediately realise if you take a wrong turning, and it doesn't rely on an implausably encountered Ninja to secure victory...
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,547
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Jul 14, 2020 8:56:27 GMT
Also unlike Deathtrap, you aren't forced into becoming best friends with another contestant I always thought all FF fans loved the Throm relationship - I guess not!
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Post by bloodbeasthandler on Jul 14, 2020 10:30:47 GMT
Also unlike Deathtrap, you aren't forced into becoming best friends with another contestant I always thought all FF fans loved the Throm relationship - I guess not! Speaking for myself I really do like the alliance with Throm - it's one of the most memorable bits of a book full of memorable encounters. On my first playthroughs I kept going the wrong way - the Mirror Demon way - because i thought it was the right route (great illustration, powerful enemy, using that Wishing Ring, it MUST be correct mustn't it?). I thought the encounter with the ninja was entirely plausible. Another contestant lies in wait for you, presumably to knock out one of his fellow contestants and take any equipment and items. I agree entirely that the format (a deadly dungeon competition) suits Livingstone's style well.
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Post by peasantscribbler on Jul 14, 2020 23:14:32 GMT
Count me among those who think that the Throm subplot elevates the original over the sequel. The there-can-only-be-one-winner moment is a nice reveal after spending so much time putting such thoughts out of your mind. It creates and resolves a decent amount of narrative tension and serves as a good transition into the second half of the book.
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Post by The Count on Jul 15, 2020 4:57:48 GMT
Also unlike Deathtrap, you aren't forced into becoming best friend9s with another contestant I always thought all FF fans loved the Throm relationship - I guess not! The idea that out of greed, you enter a deadly contest where at best only one can come out alive and win lots of money yet suddenly decide to become best friends with the most useless living contestant doesn't make any sense - unless you are actually Tea Gardner, boring those flying guardians, goblins and blood beast to death with your friendship speeches... If you had the option to stay behind and let him kill some monsters or blunder into a trap to save yourself, that would be more fitting. Even if you try to ignore him, he just waits for you to come back anyway.
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Post by bloodbeasthandler on Jul 15, 2020 20:41:13 GMT
I always thought all FF fans loved the Throm relationship - I guess not! The idea that out of greed, you enter a deadly contest where at best only one can come out alive and win lots of money yet suddenly decide to become best friends with the most useless living contestant doesn't make any sense - unless you are actually Tea Gardner, boring those flying guardians, goblins and blood beast to death with your friendship speeches... If you had the option to stay behind and let him kill some monsters or blunder into a trap to save yourself, that would be more fitting. Even if you try to ignore him, he just waits for you to come back anyway. I’m going to stick up for Throm here. He’s the one who comes up with the idea of going down that pit and having a look around. You know the pit that if you jump over it and carry on down the corridor you’ll suffer a slow death behind that invisible barrier? His lack of interest in the books means YOU get to drink potions and read stuff instead of missing out. And without getting into an unseemly fight over it. His presence means you get the drop on that pair of Cave Trolls and in fact you only have to fight one of them (at Skill 10 Stamina 11 quite a dangerous opponent, the other one was probably similar). He urges caution with that ring which could cause you harm as well as well as give you strength. He apologises for setting off those stalactites and rock fall. His intuition is to kill that spiteful dwarf Trialmaster, which though it might mean you won’t know where to go from that room, at least it shows he’s a good judge of character. He’s clearly got some brains because he would have had to have worked out an anagram. And he’s not in his right mind when he is forced to fight you at the dwarf’s behest. Ladies and gentlemen I give you Throm – the sort of bloke I’d want in the trenches with me. (And by the way, I ALWAYS kill that bloody dwarf on PRINCIPLE.)
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Post by bloodbeasthandler on Jul 15, 2020 20:53:00 GMT
Also he did better than I did on my first attempt (if my memory serves me correctly) when I got killed prising the other emerald out of the idol's eye.
And he did better than his pal who seem to have died partly as a result of curiosity or greed for that goblet. And progressed further than the knight, who had all the gear and no idea (about maths).
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,547
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Jul 15, 2020 20:55:45 GMT
I ALWAYS kill that bloody dwarf on PRINCIPLE.) I can't think of any FF villain who brings out the emotional response this guy does.
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Post by tyrion on Jul 15, 2020 21:03:32 GMT
I ALWAYS kill that bloody dwarf on PRINCIPLE.) I can't think of any FF villain who brings out the emotional response this guy does. The rest are just trying to take over the world. This one's personal.
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Post by daredevil123 on Jul 15, 2020 21:19:13 GMT
I can't think of any FF villain who brings out the emotional response this guy does. The rest are just trying to take over the world. This one's personal.Yeah, I know it only reduces your chances of completing the book but I find it hard to resist at least trying to kill him.
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Post by Peter on Jul 17, 2020 23:51:44 GMT
Well reasoned, bloodbeasthandler. To me, Throm's behaviour makes sense in context - he is a companion that suits the setting. It is easily believable that, in trying circumstances, rivals would team up for mutual benefit. From a story viewpoint, it is fully plausible. If I were writing a novel based on this book, I would have no trouble incorporating his character.
(Hypothetically, I mean - I would also need some novel-writing ability).
I think he works better than Redswift and Stubbs in their book, who seem to have no specific purpose, no definitive reason for being. Is there anything in Caverns that could not have happened if you were on your own?
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Post by a moderator on Jul 18, 2020 2:33:57 GMT
You wouldn't have known that the Death Spell was a Death Spell, and would have found yourself dropping dead without explanation some time after leaving the Crystal Caverns.
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