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Post by terrysalt on Sept 24, 2022 12:34:13 GMT
The Magic SwordsThe magic sword you are given by Grimslade for defeating the Goblin Statue without losing any stamina has the following rule: Add 1 to your Skill whenever you use it.So though it cannot take you above your Initial Skill, it will negate your skill loss from the Swamp Orcs, should you choose to pass them without the Magnet Pendant. So for example: Your Initial Skill is 10.You fight the Crab Grass with the Magic Sword but your Skill is still only 10 for this fight. The Swamp Orcs wound you, your Skill is now 9. You fight the Swamp Orcs with the Magic Sword and your Skill is back to 10 for this fight. Your leave the clearing with a Skill of 9. Oddly the +2 Skill The magic Sword you get for killing Grimslade before or after the swamp just states: Adds 2 to the skill of its user.Which I would usually take to mean it would be a permanent boost for skill tests and the like. I would also be conflicted on the legitimacy of adding this skill bonus retrospectively after losing skill points in the swamp. Does anyone have any thoughts on the rules for such equipment skill bonuses in general and how to apply them? I always play it as the skill bonus is totally wasted since at the time you pick up the sword, you're still at maximum skill. That said, I don't think there's anything in the rules that would prohibit you from declining to switch swords until a more advantageous time.
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Post by scouserob on Sept 24, 2022 12:51:13 GMT
I always play it as the skill bonus is totally wasted since at the time you pick up the sword, you're still at maximum skill. That said, I don't think there's anything in the rules that would prohibit you from declining to switch swords until a more advantageous time. Me too, at least in other gamebooks or with say the Ranger’s +1 Skill Helmet deep in the swamp. However the red text in my post above clearly states that this specific Magic Sword works like an Attack Strength bonus that only works when you are below your initial skill. (At least that is what I have convinced myself of, hopefully not to ease a guilty conscience. 😬)
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Post by terrysalt on Sept 24, 2022 12:59:46 GMT
I always play it as the skill bonus is totally wasted since at the time you pick up the sword, you're still at maximum skill. That said, I don't think there's anything in the rules that would prohibit you from declining to switch swords until a more advantageous time. Me too, at least in other gamebooks or with say the Ranger’s +1 Skill Helmet deep in the swamp. However the red text in my post above clearly states that this specific Magic Sword works like an Attack Strength bonus that only works when you are below your initial skill. (At least that is what I have convinced myself of, hopefully not to ease a guilty conscience. 😬) I think you're trying to twist the rules into allowing something they don't. But I also think you should play in whatever way you find most enjoyable. Whether accepting the bonus is strictly legal or not is not that important really.
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Post by vastariner on Sept 24, 2022 13:18:10 GMT
The absolute logic is that you go above your Initial Skill. After all, your starting Skill is your inherent ability with the weapon with which you start, so if you get a better weapon...it's like, say, Hamilton moving from McLaren to Mercedes. His increase in wins was more due to equipment than a rise in skill.
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Post by scouserob on Sept 24, 2022 13:25:28 GMT
I think you're trying to twist the rules into allowing something they don't. But I also think you should play in whatever way you find most enjoyable. Whether accepting the bonus is strictly legal or not is not that important really. Damn, that is a shame. I feel a bit naughty now... I was sure I was right as well with the on/off nature of this particular bonus. I'm going to consider it further. The absolute logic is that you go above your Initial Skill. After all, your starting Skill is your inherent ability with the weapon with which you start, so if you get a better weapon...it's like, say, Hamilton moving from McLaren to Mercedes. His increase in wins was more due to equipment than a rise in skill. I agree with your logic but I've never allowed logic to get in the way of a strict and perhaps illogical set of rules. Whilst I agree about playing in the way that is most enjoyable, I do like to play by the rules. (Though sometimes those rules are a bit too ambiguous like interpreting that red sentence.) Thanks for the feedback. The choice between these Magic Sword rules alter a few of the decisions for my Grimslade 5 Amulet solution in the solution thread. I think I'll head over to edit the solution for whether you allow the Magic Sword to add +1 Skill only in battle or not.
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Post by daredevil123 on Sept 24, 2022 15:35:09 GMT
Oddly the +2 Skill The magic Sword you get for killing Grimslade before or after the swamp just states: Adds 2 to the skill of its user.Which I would usually take to mean it would be a permanent boost for skill tests and the like. I would also be conflicted on the legitimacy of adding this skill bonus retrospectively after losing skill points in the swamp. Does anyone have any thoughts on the rules for such equipment skill bonuses in general and how to apply them? The book doesn't actually say that you can take Grimslade's magic sword with you. Assuming you're allowed to, though, I'd assume the standard but annoying rules about not allowing your Skill to exceed its inital level would still apply.
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Post by scouserob on Sept 24, 2022 15:41:12 GMT
The book doesn't actually say that you can take Grimslade's magic sword with you. Assuming you're allowed to, though, I'd assume the standard but annoying rules about not allowing your Skill to exceed its initial level would still apply. I meant the +1 Magic Sword given as a gift from Grimslade in paragraph 241 not Grimslade’s own +2 Magic Sword from paragraph 140. (At least as far as fighting with extra skill once you have lost some.) I agree about the rules for that +2 sword. (assuming you can take it with you.) I’m also not thinking that either sword allows you to exceed your Initial Skill at any point, just that the +1 Magic Sword gives a temporary, in battle, Skill point if you have less than your Initial Skill. (Whether you lost that skill point after getting the sword or not.)
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Post by nathanh on Sept 24, 2022 20:31:58 GMT
I think in cases like this when the writer of a rule has done a bad job of understanding the rule and also a bad job of writing it, it's fair to twist it!
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Sept 25, 2022 10:51:19 GMT
SCORPION SWAMP vs APPOINTMENT WITH FEAR: One Amazing idea Horribly executed Vs One Horrible idea amazingly executed.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Oct 6, 2022 3:07:59 GMT
The Magic SwordsThe magic sword you are given by Grimslade for defeating the Goblin Statue without losing any stamina has the following rule: Add 1 to your Skill whenever you use it.So though it cannot take you above your Initial Skill, it will negate your skill loss from the Swamp Orcs, should you choose to pass them without the Magnet Pendant. So for example: Your Initial Skill is 10.You fight the Crab Grass with the Magic Sword but your Skill is still only 10 for this fight. The Swamp Orcs wound you, your Skill is now 9. You fight the Swamp Orcs with the Magic Sword and your Skill is back to 10 for this fight. Your leave the clearing with a Skill of 9. Oddly the +2 Skill The magic Sword you get for killing Grimslade before or after the swamp just states: Adds 2 to the skill of its user.Which I would usually take to mean it would be a permanent boost for skill tests and the like. I would also be conflicted on the legitimacy of adding this skill bonus retrospectively after losing skill points in the swamp. Does anyone have any thoughts on the rules for such equipment skill bonuses in general and how to apply them? I always play it as the skill bonus is totally wasted since at the time you pick up the sword, you're still at maximum skill. That said, I don't think there's anything in the rules that would prohibit you from declining to switch swords until a more advantageous time. Me too, at least in other gamebooks or with say the Ranger’s +1 Skill Helmet deep in the swamp. However the red text in my post above clearly states that this specific Magic Sword works like an Attack Strength bonus that only works when you are below your initial skill. (At least that is what I have convinced myself of, hopefully not to ease a guilty conscience. 😬) FWIW, not only do I think that a magic sword can compensate for later SKILL loss, I don't see the logic of thinking otherwise. Naturally we start with the problem that the rules on this stuff don't really make sense. With the adventurer starting with identical initial and current SKILL scores, all the rings, amulets and weaponry infused with supernatural powers are reduced to the status of hearing aids or reading glasses. They are useless to anyone in perfect health. This confuses things, but there's still surely a difference between events and items which are used up on the one hand, and persisting objects on the other. Let's say that you have lost a SKILL point before either getting hold of a SKILL potion or an 'increases your SKILL in combat' sword. If you drink the potion, your SKILL is restored (from 9 to 10 let's say) permanently. If you use the sword, it is restored to 10, at least during combat. But what if you then lose the sword, or trade it in for one which does extra damage or something? Then your SKILL in combat will surely drop again, because you are no longer benefiting from its magic. As the instructions used to say "A Magic Weapon may increase your SKILL, but remember that only one weapon may be used at a time!" So if when it works the magic sword is continuously raising your SKILL in battle for as long as you use it, what sense can be made of it permanently and uselessly discharging if it isn't effective immediately? The least weird way of interpreting the initial SKILL limit is that the sword is continuously trying to increase your SKILL, like a man pushing against a wall. If the man is moved back from the wall, he is free to step towards it again.
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Post by slloyd14 on Oct 7, 2022 23:20:50 GMT
Thinking about it, friendship doesn't sound a very good (in the moral sense) spell. It's basically mind control.
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Post by scouserob on Dec 21, 2022 20:03:07 GMT
I've returned to Scorpion Swamp for a Christmas project.
It is the odd one out, in many ways, from the first ten books including being the only one of them, as far as I am aware, that doesn't have a Steam or mobile app to allow quick play.
So in order to save a little bit of time spent page flicking, dice rolling and adventure sheet filling, when I fancy a foray into the eponymous swamp, I've decided to spend what will probably be rather a lot of time creating a little app of my own. 🤷🏻♂️ (And as Greenspine mentioned regarding his gamebook manager in the Pristine Books thread it should help keep the old book .. pristine.)
I decided to join the rest of the world and have a go in Python.
I am having a great deal of fun so far and so wanted to share and show off a little. It is now playable up to and including Clearing 1. (Like I said this may take a while.) Screenshots:
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Post by scouserob on Dec 31, 2022 0:29:22 GMT
The Thief and the Magic items He Takes
I'm up to that blasted Thief in my computer adaptation and am a little stymied by the items taken in the post garrotting theft. I've made an initial assumption but am open to suggestions and arguments on this point. 😀
Here is the instruction in the text: All your spell gems and other magic items are gone, and there is no sign of the Thief.
I'm thinking that items he will take, if you have them, are: All Spell Gems (Obviously) All 5 Amulets (I'm guessing the thief is aware of the Masters and their Amulets.) Unicorn Horn (It seems common knowledge that: The horn of a Unicorn has great magical powers.) Golden Magnet Pendant (A bit dubious but it is magically cursed and perhaps the Thief knows of such pendants. 🤷🏻♂️)
I'm thinking that he won't steal: The Brass Ring (As it would break the game and leave you lost in the swamp, which obviously isn't the intention.) Violet Jewel (No indication it is magical.) Gold Chain (No indication it is magical.) Ranger's Helmet (No indication it is magical. The Skill Bonus is due to it being: finely made.) Antherica Berry (Dubious, but I'm considering it as being an ingredient for magic and not inherently magical itself.)
I'm considering: The two Magic Swords that you can acquire from Grimslade. It is possible that I could keep your original Sword in your inventory list and then remove a Magic Sword and deduct the Skill bonus it gave even though you never got to use that bonus in the strict rules I'm using. Or perhaps remove it and ignore the Skill bonus element that you never got. A bit fiddly these Magic Swords so I may consider them as untouchable as the Brass Ring...
Is there any item that I missed? The Red Cloak/Handkerchief can only be added to your inventory by killing the Thief so that isn't up for discussion.
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Post by Peter on Dec 31, 2022 7:14:58 GMT
Can't argue with your reasoning.As he seems to be a specifically magic-themed thief, it makes sense that he would steal magically cursed items as well as beneficial ones.
The magic swords are definitely magic items. Yes, you should keep your regular sword in your back pocket, to allow for this sort of misfortune.
To manage the skill bonus, you could adopt the standard alternative and apply it as an AS bonus instead.
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Post by scouserob on Dec 31, 2022 12:38:02 GMT
The magic swords are definitely magic items. Yes, you should keep your regular sword in your back pocket, to allow for this sort of misfortune. To manage the skill bonus, you could adopt the standard alternative and apply it as an AS bonus instead. Thanks Peter
Yes, damn it, I know you're right regarding him nicking Magic Swords, so I'll keep your original starting sword handy in your backpack just in case.
Regarding losing Skill along with the sword I'm going to take the Chainmail and Shield from City of Thieves as a precedents and assume that any associated Skill loss from losing the item would be mentioned in the text. (Especially as it is impossible to be below your initial Skill and gain the Skill point(s) from those two Magic Swords anyway.)
I'm going to keep the Magic Swords as cool sounding but practically useless items, as they specifically give a Skill bonus and the instructions specify your Skill cannot exceed its Initial Value.
If only American Steve Jackson had used the phrase Attack Strength, which had been dotted throughout the previous books.
Inventory Comparison Screenshot:
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Post by scouserob on Jan 15, 2023 12:47:01 GMT
I've finished my Python adaptation of Scorpion Swamp and I definitely recommend it as a way of getting to know a gamebook better.
Here is a run through of the Selator Quest.
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Post by vastariner on Jan 15, 2023 20:53:31 GMT
If you did a Python adaptation of The Shamutanti Hills, Vancass' questions would have to be:
-what is your name; -what is your mission; -what is your favourite colour.
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Post by scouserob on Jan 15, 2023 21:03:03 GMT
If you did a Python adaptation of The Shamutanti Hills, Vancass' questions would have to be: -what is your name; -what is your mission; -what is your favourite colour. I’m ashamed to say that took me a while to get. 😂 Thanks, I’m now amusing myself imagining the Pythons blundering through Sorcery!, Scorpion Swamp, etc. The City of Thieves seems well suited for such silliness. 😀 (The guards, jail, depressed troll, market, black candles, pirates, etc.)
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Post by petch on Jan 15, 2023 21:16:29 GMT
The City of Thieves seems well suited for such silliness. 😀 Or Bloodbones, thanks to the Dead Pirate Sketch.
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Post by CharlesX on Jan 16, 2023 14:43:08 GMT
The City of Thieves seems well suited for such silliness. 😀 Or Bloodbones, thanks to the Dead Pirate Sketch. I'll try not to mention that awful Yellowbeard film, or if I mention it once I hope I can get away with it! Btw don't you mean Dead Parrot Sketch?
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Post by a moderator on Jan 16, 2023 15:13:46 GMT
Or Bloodbones, thanks to the Dead Pirate Sketch. I'll try not to mention that awful Yellowbeard film, or if I mention it once I hope I can get away with it! Btw don't you mean Dead Parrot Sketch?
I think 'Dead Pirate' may have been a pun. Given the prevalence of inexplicable shops in dungeons, I can see potential for an encounter inspired by the Cheese Shop Sketch, in which you waste dozens of sections trying to buy adventuring paraphernalia from a 'merchant' who doesn't actually have anything to sell. "Potion of Fortune? Normally, yes, but today a wheel came off the cart."
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Post by CharlesX on Jan 17, 2023 14:12:32 GMT
I'll try not to mention that awful Yellowbeard film, or if I mention it once I hope I can get away with it! Btw don't you mean Dead Parrot Sketch?
I think 'Dead Pirate' may have been a pun. I spent 5 minutes surfing the web for Python pirate sketches (of which there are several), then 5 minutes remembering the dead parrot sketch, then 5 minutes wondeing if the pun was clever and I wasn't, or I didn't immediately get it because it was a bad pun. Well-played for making me think!
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Post by petch on Jan 17, 2023 16:15:17 GMT
It wasn't my strongest joke to be fair, but then I didn't expect it to be so overanalysed. I mean, I didn't expect the Sp......actually, never mind.
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Post by vastariner on Jan 18, 2023 21:28:20 GMT
The leader of the Inquisition leers at you with an evil intent. "You say you are a member of the Ruddlestone sect? Very well...if that is the case...you will know what our secret weapon is!!"
What will you answer?
Fear: turn to 48 Surprise: turn to 272 Ruthless efficiency: turn to 331 An almost fanatical devotion to the Pope: turn to 104 Nice red uniforms: turn to 5
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Post by terrysalt on Jan 18, 2023 22:02:57 GMT
The leader of the Inquisition leers at you with an evil intent. "You say you are a member of the Ruddlestone sect? Very well...if that is the case...you will know what our secret weapon is!!" What will you answer? Fear: turn to 48 Surprise: turn to 272 Ruthless efficiency: turn to 331 An almost fanatical devotion to the Pope: turn to 104 Nice red uniforms: turn to 5 F: None of the above. It's the comfy chair.
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Post by vastariner on Jan 19, 2023 8:56:00 GMT
That's in Cardinal Naggamanteh's room.
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