vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Dec 6, 2015 14:05:44 GMT
Contestant number 2 of Trial of Champions was so poorly equipped... Even so, I love Trial of Champions A perfect book.
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Post by Jon on Dec 6, 2015 19:10:32 GMT
Yes, even though the second labyrinth is not described with such a rich and detailed atmosphere and the illustrations are certainly not as good as those in Deathtrap Dungeon, Lord Carnus does come across as absolutely horrible as a villain should, even though there is not much time to develop him. An effective antagonist is a necessary part of a gamebook and it is the part which you would expect Livingstone to be good at.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,458
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Dec 6, 2015 22:23:06 GMT
I do like his "So be it" when forced to fight.
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Dec 7, 2015 0:16:09 GMT
I do like his "So be it" when forced to fight. I love it.
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Post by Jon on Dec 8, 2015 19:34:22 GMT
Yes, he certainly resigned himself to it well. Even though he could not possibly win, he kept his icy composure.
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Post by Jon on Dec 11, 2015 18:25:49 GMT
More nitpicking in the spirit of the thread. Is there actually a lockable door to the entrance of the labyrinth? If not, what's to stop a contestant hiding in one of the less dangerous early tunnels and living on provisions for a few days and then sneaking out of the entrance again?
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,678
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Dec 11, 2015 22:42:15 GMT
isn't there a section where you can accidentally find yourself outside the dungeon entrance? you get jeered at and stoned at by the crowd until you flee back inside. or am i recalling a different book?
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Post by Jon on Dec 11, 2015 23:55:05 GMT
Yes, you are recalling Trial of Champions, not Deathtrap Dungeon. Some strange quirk resulting from pressing the wrong button in the deadlier labyrinth sends the player character back to the beginning, but the crowd are still there. If it were an option to wait a few days, they would presumably all go and then it might be possible to slip away.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,458
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Dec 12, 2015 0:13:16 GMT
I think the trialmasters go looking for any contestants who go MIA. Remember the guy with one hand says he was found by a trialmaster? Of course, one of the two trialmasters in DD seemed pretty eager to escape himself...
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Post by vastariner on Dec 12, 2015 8:37:03 GMT
Yes, you are recalling Trial of Champions, not Deathtrap Dungeon. Some strange quirk resulting from pressing the wrong button in the deadlier labyrinth sends the player character back to the beginning, but the crowd are still there. If it were an option to wait a few days, they would presumably all go and then it might be possible to slip away. Which is what I would do. Basically gives you a free holiday in Fang. Although I presume Baron S puts in timelocked doors to prevent anyone from entering or exiting at any time. It's a one day deal or that's it. Survive for 365 till next year. With rooms that are forever shifting. Otherwise you could emerge after eight months to a crowd of nobody and no one believing you'd done it.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,678
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Dec 12, 2015 23:01:57 GMT
pretty sure people remember who was on the list of contestants so that the same person can't pull off the same trick. more probable is, the next time he tries for a free holiday, he'll be thrown in the middle of the dungeon without a weapon instead.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2015 4:48:58 GMT
The walls could be optic illusions, they seem solid, but you can walk right through most areas and get to a completely different section.
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Post by hynreck on Dec 14, 2015 14:07:39 GMT
"Just touch the goddam wall!" "But it's filthy!"
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Post by Jon on Dec 14, 2015 17:26:29 GMT
Judging by the illustrations the walls were cleaned up a lot between Deathtrap Dungeon and Trial of Champions.
If by some magical means the crowd could watch the progress of the contestants in the labyrinth, then it would be much more entertaining for them and would generate a lot more tourism. However, how unfair would Sukumvit be able to make the contest if it was actually being viewed by many?
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,458
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Dec 14, 2015 21:29:47 GMT
The surprise of the crowd when you re-emerge would seem to suggest they have no idea what's going on in there. Which makes one question why they get so excited to see people walk down a tunnel (probably) never to re-emerge.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,678
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Dec 14, 2015 23:30:31 GMT
the crowd would enjoy it more if there was a big 'Running Man' screen for them to see and make bets on, or if each contestant wore a live cam.
"I'm a celebrity. Get me out of this MF dungeon!"
Sukumvit: "...No"
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Dec 15, 2015 0:11:43 GMT
No. A thousand times no!It had to be voluntary! not a game! A scream for life! Competitors had to be all volunteers! gladly volunteers! No one would ever want to give up! Only thus there is beauty in the idea of a Deathtrap Dungeon.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,458
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Dec 15, 2015 8:51:38 GMT
The hero of Trial of Champions definitely wasn't there voluntarily.
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Post by hynreck on Dec 15, 2015 13:44:25 GMT
Just send Rorschach in there, I know what he would say to all of the inhabitants!
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Post by Jon on Dec 21, 2015 1:28:44 GMT
Contestant Number 2 in Trial of Champions was definitely not there voluntarily, but this made the ending so much better than the ending of Deathtrap Dungeon. The only point that let Deathtrap Dungeon down was the mediocre ending paragraph. Trial of Champions ended with the showdown with Lord Carnus. Beautifully karmic that Carnus should have been forced to fight against overwhelming odds at the end.
Back to the original nitpick of this thread - I read that the reward in Eye of the Dragon was 335,000 gold pieces, right? Just for retrieving some piece of kitsch? Eye of the Dragon sounds very underwhelming as a gamebook, but that reward is actually substantial. Even a teenaged player character could retire on it and live well for the rest of their life. How long could 10,000 GP possibly last for? If the player character went to stay in a fair quality inn as a long term guest, sleeping in a private room with one cooked meal each day, that would probably cost 4 GP a day (more in the isolated areas), so the prize would last less than seven years that way, without any extravagant expenditure. And then I don't know how much heated water costs on Titan, I'm betting that bathwater would be extra.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,678
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Dec 21, 2015 1:58:38 GMT
after Trial of Champions to Armies of Death, your character had bought an army and probably squandered most of the rest of it. i'm guessing the 20000GP didn't last long. the Eye of the Dragon reward is likely one of those ridiculous Ebay prices and only worth as much if you are gullible enough to believe it.
i'm surprised these dungeon winners do'nt get robbed either. with thousands of GPs i'd be tempted to keep it locked away down a labyrinth of tunnels, guarded by loyal servants and nasty monsters at my command. now where can i hide all those keys...
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Post by Jon on Dec 21, 2015 22:29:49 GMT
In the introduction to Armies of Death, the Player Character commissions a castle for 14,000 GP and then hires an army for 5,300 GP, leaving them with 700 GP at the very beginning which they are certain to spend or scramble by the end.
I still haven't figured out the money on Titan. A brass owl costs 10 gold pieces, a green vase costs 20 gold pieces and commissioning a castle costs 14000??
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,678
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Dec 22, 2015 1:04:48 GMT
forgot about the castle bit. i wonder who gets the castle after you die due to the many instant deaths in the book.
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Post by Jon on Dec 24, 2015 17:19:49 GMT
I suppose it would be Baron Sukumvit.
The boobyprize that is never mentioned is that in the impossible event of a contestant winning in Deathtrap Dungeon, Baron Sukumvit seeks revenge. Contestant number 2 of Trial of Champions was uniquely lucky in that Sukumvit's revenge was directed against Lord Carnus. And that time, Sukumvit succeeded.
In the old Fighting Fantasy Magazine from the 'eighties, there was a mini-adventure where Baron Sukumvit seeks vengeance against the victorious Contestant number 5 of Deathtrap Dungeon who is leaving Fang with some hired body guards. This was a multiplayer adventure. The GM was supposed to directed the players in what to do on their quest through the wilderness to evade Baron Sukumvit's assassins.
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Post by vastariner on Dec 27, 2015 9:47:58 GMT
I still haven't figured out the money on Titan. A brass owl costs 10 gold pieces, a green vase costs 20 gold pieces and commissioning a castle costs 14000?? If a GP is a tenner, it sort of works out. Antique brass owl for £100. Vases might be expensive as they might not be able to create porcelain very easily. £140k to build a castle might be a decent amount given that castle building skills would be common, so less valuable.
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Post by Jon on Jan 24, 2016 1:18:36 GMT
I would still say that the owl and the vase were a rip off.
Anyway, building a castle would require a lot of material and labour, even if we assume that the land was free of charge.
The prize should have been a lot more substantial and given how ridiculous the values of metals on Titan are, I still like my idea that the prize should have been a chest of diamonds - on Titan that would represent 1,000,000+ gold pieces. Deathtrap Dungeon's mediocre end paragraph should be changed so that it includes, "Baron Sukumvit opens the chest containing sparkling diamonds worth a million gold pieces..."
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Post by Wilf on Jan 28, 2016 7:35:55 GMT
A chest full of diamonds would certainly open a lot of doors.
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Post by Jon on Jan 29, 2016 18:04:31 GMT
Whereas all 10,000 gold pieces will buy is a sailing ship with no crew, equipment or supplies or any gold pieces left over for repairs. And a sailing ship is greatly inferior to a galleon, such as the one the pirate crew of bloodbones had.
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Jun 16, 2016 14:05:22 GMT
Yesterday, I read, I played, I felt Deathtrap Dungeon. I was killed by the claws of Mantikore. How I hate losing a Fighting Fantasy gamebook. A sincere will to tear the heavens, to blow up everything, to tear my own chest. A horrible feeling of lost time. The book is magical, though! Perhaps, in a future, we will find ourselves again.
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Post by Pete Byrdie on Jun 16, 2016 15:00:08 GMT
Your passion for gamebooks is admirable, Vag.
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