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Post by Jon on Nov 26, 2015 18:27:22 GMT
Deathtrap Dungeon is without a doubt, one of the best if not the best in the long running fighting fantasy series. The premise fits the genre ideally. Since the whole setting is a twisted contest, the deathtraps and monsters all have a reason to be in the way - they were put there for that purpose. Most of the other gamebooks require a huge suspension of disbelief concerning why their environments are shaped like deadly contests.
Yes, as is usual, the lie in the instructions that even a weak player character can get through is laughable - but this time there is a cast iron excuse: the contest is unfair. That is the premise. The player character is not expected to prevail.
There is one nitpick that bothers the fussiest players though... the promised reward of 10,000 gold pieces seems pitifully small given how little spending power a gold piece has. It's obvious to me that gold is a very common metal on Titan as a gold piece is 80 or 90 grams of pure gold and two gold pieces can only get you a hot meal in a tavern. In Advanced Fighting Fantasy we learn that it is possible to win 50,000 gold pieces just by playing Bet Your Life in Port Blacksand. And 50,000 gold pieces is only the minimum price of buying a warship and hiring a crew for it.
Since Sukumvit does not expect anyone to prevail, he should have promised a reward that is actually a fortune on Titan. Given how much gold is in circulation in Port Blacksand alone, the wealthiest despots on Titan should be able to afford to pay out a prize of a million gold pieces. This actually would seem like a prize that foolhardy adventurers would risk their lives for.
Regarding the follow up to Deathtrap Dungeon and the deadlier labyrinth, I would say that the prize should have been increased by an order of magnitude, as this would explain why a different caliber of contestant (princes, warlord, chaos champion) were entering. A prize that would seem worth fighting for to those fellows would have to be at least ten times as much as a prize that would seem great to the contestants in the original Deathtrap Dungeon.
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Post by hynreck on Nov 26, 2015 19:42:03 GMT
I agree this doesn't make much sense. It requires checking your brain at the door.
There are other problems, like logistics. Even with such a "small" sum of 10 000 gold pieces, how is your hero supposed to carry such a sum?
Of course, buying transportation and/or people to help you carry such a sum seems like the required solution, plus, eventually the buying of a place where to put/hide such a sum. Was there ever a bank in all of Titan? I can't remember.
All the same, how long do you think the hero blessed with such a sum can be expected to live in such a crapsack world? I bet he doesn't even have the time to hire a few bodyguards to protect his treasure before said bodyguards try to kill him for it.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679 
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Nov 26, 2015 20:15:06 GMT
how do you take 10,000 GPs with you?
simple. get Sukumvit to write you a Cheque.
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Post by hynreck on Nov 26, 2015 20:47:34 GMT
I must be missing something, sorry!
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Post by Jon on Nov 26, 2015 20:53:16 GMT
Yes, there are no checks and no banks on Titan. I think Sylas is thinking of Oerth - Gary Gygax's world which is Medieval in some respects, but has anachronistic features, such as the minting of platinum coins and the use of checks and banking.
On Oerth, gold is as valuable as it is on present day Earth, so a single gold piece (or orb as they call them) would have the spending power of 1000 Allansian gold pieces on Titan. On Earth, 1000 orbs would be a fortune which the foolhardy would risk their lives for. If Jackson and Livingstone had not made all the metals so abundant on Titan, then it would be a lot easier to carry a fortune around.
On Oerth, even a purse of just 10 gold orbs would be quite a treasure, even to a high level character.
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Post by hynreck on Nov 27, 2015 13:53:42 GMT
Of course, like you say, the value of gold in the Fighting Fantasy world is ridiculous.
Just lugging around pocket change is a major inconvenience.
On the other end, it should make the average person quite strong.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Nov 27, 2015 15:14:55 GMT
Of course, like you say, the value of gold in the Fighting Fantasy world is ridiculous. Just lugging around pocket change is a major inconvenience. On the other end, it should make the average person quite strong. It also explains why Titan has never been invaded by cybermen. |
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Post by hynreck on Nov 27, 2015 16:02:38 GMT
Cybermen? I feel out of the loop!
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Nov 27, 2015 16:20:29 GMT
Cybermen? I feel out of the loop! Sorry, it's a Dr Who reference - about as far off topic from the thread and FF as you can get (except that Peter Darvill-Evans had a hand in both of course). The cybermen are cyborgs whose main weakness is an 'allergy' to gold. The effect of a gold coin in a slingshot is helpfully illustrated here. |
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Post by hynreck on Nov 27, 2015 17:03:11 GMT
Alright, that does make sense. I mean... as much as it can make sense, I guess. <_<
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Post by Jon on Nov 27, 2015 17:49:07 GMT
Getting somewhat back on topic, in the Rolemaster world, there were many different tiers of coin on a simple base ten system. The one of least value was the iron piece and the one of greatest value was the mithril piece. A mithril piece was worth a hundred gold pieces and ten million iron pieces. So fewer than ten mithril pieces could be used to buy a castle. In the Rolemaster world it would be very simple to transport vast wealth - just by carrying a small pouch of mithril.
On Titan, the nearest one could come to doing that would be by hauling around a sackful of gems.
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Nov 30, 2015 18:56:30 GMT
Ethics of this world is rotten. This world needs a Deathtrap Dungeon. So much. Although priests may say no.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,460
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Nov 30, 2015 19:05:48 GMT
Would you enter if there were, Vagsancho?
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Nov 30, 2015 19:08:12 GMT
Would you enter if there were, Vagsancho? |
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Post by hynreck on Nov 30, 2015 19:33:10 GMT
We need a Running Man contest so that Vag can enter. Please Donald Trump of the world, make it happen.
Of course, if one priest was to say no... *dream crushed*
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Post by Jon on Dec 1, 2015 0:33:06 GMT
Well Deathtrap Dungeon would be very easy to construct nowadays. And CCTV and the internet would make spectating simple. A network of tunnels could be filled with deathtraps and genetically engineered monsters and if the prize was high enough, there would be foolhardy nuts willing to attempt it.
A monetary prize would be a simple matter as well, not like on Titan. If there was almost no chance of success and lethal consequences for failure as in the Allansian Deathtrap Dungeon, then the prize would have to be very high. Let's speculate on what it should be.
There would be nutters willing to try for a prize of as little as $10,000,000 although a sorely tempting prize to turn less foolhardy heads would have to be $1,000,000,000 or more.
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sylas
Baron
"Don't just adventure for treasure; treasure the adventure!"
Posts: 1,679
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy, Way of the Tiger
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Post by sylas on Dec 1, 2015 1:01:21 GMT
of course, unless superpowers and magic are real, you could add any number of noughts after the 1 and the chances of success would still be zero. what's more intruiging would be what monsters they'd use since trap design would be simple enough. also real life food wouldn't mend death dealing injuries unfortunately.
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Post by hynreck on Dec 1, 2015 13:52:30 GMT
You mean that ham sandwich I brought was baloney??
In any case, I can't wait to see contestants face the pool filled with Ill-tempered Mutated Sea Bass. That I need to witness.
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Post by Jon on Dec 1, 2015 17:52:12 GMT
The only gamebook where wolfing food to heal injuries made sense was... wait for it... Howl of the Werewolf!
And the Creature of Havoc's powers of recovery made sense too, because of the creature's unnatural physiology.
If the contestants knew roughly what Deathtrap Dungeon entailed beforehand they would have a huge advantage compared to those Allansian contestants who did not. If the Walk were widely viewed each year, then everyone would know the objective with the three gems and the basic layout, perhaps improving chances of success from zero, to astronomically small?
About transporting a vast prize on Titan, I do recall that in Black Vein Prophecy, a handful of diamonds counted as "1000" gold pieces. So a sackful would be a million gold pieces. Perhaps this is expecting too much consistency from Titanic standards.
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Post by hynreck on Dec 1, 2015 19:38:13 GMT
Perhaps "they" could rearrange the Dungeon each year, like between Deathtrap and Trial of Champions.
Lots of work, but perhaps if such changes are taken into account in the design of the dungeon, what with switchable corridors and such, like a movie set, then it wouldn't be too costly.
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vagsancho
Knight
Posts: 809
Favourite Gamebook Series: CRYPT OF THE SORCERER
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Post by vagsancho on Dec 2, 2015 13:14:07 GMT
Would you enter if there were, Vagsancho? |
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Post by hynreck on Dec 2, 2015 13:36:26 GMT
But what about death by Razaak?
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Post by johnbrawn1972 on Dec 2, 2015 13:58:52 GMT
Suffering his flippin posts is deadly enough. |
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Post by hynreck on Dec 2, 2015 15:07:14 GMT
Razaak attacks Vagsancho!
Vagsancho backs off and replies with a vague, mystical, magical, fly in the face of logic comment!
Razaak looses his mind!
Vagsancho Wins!
(plus locks Razaak in his basement for further entertainement!)
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,460
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Dec 2, 2015 15:29:26 GMT
But what about death by Razaak? Don't be silly, Razaak isn't in this world. Only his unworthy creator Ian Livingstone |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2015 15:49:02 GMT
Suffering his flippin posts is deadly enough. You like it.  Say it. |
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Post by hynreck on Dec 2, 2015 16:58:35 GMT
But what about death by Razaak? Don't be silly, Razaak isn't in this world. Only his unworthy creator Ian Livingstone
Don't make Livingstone unleashed the real Razaak. You know he's sitting pretty on it ...under his patio.
Either that, or it's somebody else's skeleton, but let's let sleeping bones lie. |
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Post by Jon on Dec 4, 2015 21:15:45 GMT
I expect Razaak could have completed either Dungeon. Not even the Trialmasters could have defeated him without Razaak's own sword.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,460
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Dec 4, 2015 22:19:55 GMT
I wonder if magic users were banned from taking part? Certainly none of the contestants in Ian's two books seemed to display any magical ability.
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Post by Jon on Dec 6, 2015 6:25:59 GMT
Certainly magic was used in the construction of the Dungeon. It is however not clear at all whether magic users can enter and what magical items contestants can take in. Does the potion of stamina/skill/luck contestant number 5 carries in Deathtrap Dungeon count as magic? If so, what are the restrictions? There are magical items on Titan that could provide huge advantages.
Contestant number 2 of Trial of Champions was so poorly equipped... just as well the Dungeon contained so much great stuff to collect.
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Say it.