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Post by CharlesX on Apr 20, 2023 19:29:41 GMT
All good points Charles! I would have quite liked all Fighting Fantasy to be based on Titan (Not Titan City). But yeah I thought the same as you going into it. Maybe its because I played it on holiday but I got far more into it than I thought possible. What Cover would you have gone for? Demons? Agree with you about covers in that I think Demons and Sword are strong but ultimately Talisman is the best. I like the cover of Rings Of Kether a lot for appearing like a good pulp SF & Fantasy work, maybe one by Dick or Moorecock; while I think Rebel Planet has a cover that is quite attention-grabbing and Lucas-esque, I think as well the illustrations in Rebel Planet are powerful with their sharp starkness and foreign\alien passive-aggression (probably because, like Freeway Fighter, the artist didn't have particularly long to work with).
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Post by philsadler on Apr 21, 2023 4:17:25 GMT
Interesting, but for me Scorpion Swamp will always have the worst cover.
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Post by daredevil123 on Apr 21, 2023 11:42:06 GMT
Interesting, but for me Scorpion Swamp will always have the worst cover. Worse than Crystal of Storms?
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Post by CharlesX on Apr 21, 2023 11:51:22 GMT
Sky Lord's cover is just as below-average is the gamebook. Every porthole cover is really awful, even where the picture itself has had some effort. I don't look at a book to see a cover the size of a Ghostbusters logo, with 'nothing going on'.
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Post by sj1scot on Apr 21, 2023 18:30:14 GMT
I was only going for books 11-20. But Scorpion Swamp survived Season 1s review due to the Conga of Chaos cover of Citadel which I thought was worse. But yeah Scorpion Swamp how does it not have a cover with at least one scorpion!
If I ever get to Crystal of Storms, yeah that's a sure fire winner!
I am not looking forward to Sky Lord, or maybe I am, makes writing a funny blog easier when its terrible!
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Post by sj1scot on Apr 21, 2023 18:37:39 GMT
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Post by CharlesX on Apr 21, 2023 19:03:10 GMT
Thanks as ever, tastes are heavily subjective so I won't comment on your review ranking except on Caverns Of The Snow Witch. Quoting your blog: I'm afraid I've never liked Caverns Of The Snow Witch, it doesn't have enough diversity and variables for me and it seems to me to be Livingstone showing his worst tendencies as a gamebook writer. It also shows that it was adapted from a much shorter mini adventure with the second half dragging and limited description throughout. For me, I don't think skill fixes and other gameplay tweaks would alter my opinion of it more than two points out of ten, I'm just not a fan!
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Post by philsadler on Apr 21, 2023 19:15:20 GMT
Interesting, but for me Scorpion Swamp will always have the worst cover. Worse than Crystal of Storms?
To be honest, yes. I think that SS's cover is a little bit 'ugly', whereas COS is only childish.
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Post by CharlesX on Apr 21, 2023 19:31:36 GMT
Worse than Crystal of Storms?
To be honest, yes. I think that SS's cover is a little bit 'ugly', whereas COS is only childish.
I think I would use the word 'unimaginative'. Scorpion Swamp's cover portrays an enemy from a dead end that is parsecs off the true path and ultimately of no benefit to any adventurer. It looks more like a young dinosaur than a Fantasy foe and the 'jewel' on its forehead looks an awful lot like glass. It was a poor choice for a cover when they could have used a powerful image such a dangerous-looking green swamp with thick mist and heavy mud, or an actual foe such as the Brigand leader (I wonder whether the artist thought that would be a spoiler, but I strongly suspect he wasn't giving one). I imagine that the first suggestion I made would have taken weeks for a highly-skilled artist to draw and the artist didn't have the time and probably not the ability level either.
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Post by scouserob on Apr 21, 2023 19:57:50 GMT
A dangerous-looking green swamp with thick mist and heavy mud does sound a whole lot better. 😎
The Pool Beast is worth visiting on the Grimslade 5 amulet quest as the expected stamina loss is more than offset by trading the Violet Jewel for a Stamina Gem. 💎
I really disliked that cover in my youth but it has grown on me. I’d probably rank it above the original Citadel of Chaos cover.
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Post by sj1scot on Apr 21, 2023 20:53:58 GMT
I do see what you are saying about Caverns, I just felt it was structured in the wrong order. Interesting out of the first 10 books, Caverns and Starship have by far and away the least page views. Obviously not a barometer of quality but think it shows not that popular.
I love how worst cover has got everyone talking. What is everyone favorite cover from the first 20 books?
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Post by scouserob on Apr 21, 2023 21:10:28 GMT
I love how worst cover has got everyone talking. What is everyone favorite cover from the first 20 books? Some cracking covers in the first 20. 😀 Love the covers of City of Thieves, Deathtrap Dungeon, Island of the Lizard King, House of Hell, Talisman of Death and Rebel Planet. Forest of Doom is my favourite. 🌲🌳🦎🌲🌳🔨🌲🌳
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Post by philsadler on Apr 22, 2023 5:23:35 GMT
I love how worst cover has got everyone talking. What is everyone favorite cover from the first 20 books?
Got to be House of Hell; so much detail.
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Post by CharlesX on Apr 22, 2023 18:16:13 GMT
I do see what you are saying about Caverns, I just felt it was structured in the wrong order. Interesting out of the first 10 books, Caverns and Starship have by far and away the least page views. Obviously not a barometer of quality but think it shows not that popular. I love how worst cover has got everyone talking. What is everyone favorite cover from the first 20 books? Temple Of Terror, Seas Of Blood and probably Island Of The Lizard King look like big, brave adventurous RPGs. I think Starship Traveller and (being contrarian) Clash Of The Princes have much better covers than their adventures, it's like their covers make them look half-decent when they aren't. Starship Traveller looks like it could be as fun as the Traveller RPG or a Star Wars RPG (no idea if one exists), which it was intended as being but was disappointing not only in the difficulty but about lots of things . Clash Of The Princes looks like it could be a well-researched exciting adventure, and I give credit for it being technically interesting and having more effort and skill than many gamebooks but not for being exciting when it isn't. I imagine you will not be obliged to review Clash Of The Princes anymore than you would other very developed FF such as advanced FF RPG (it's deeply obscure, and unlike Revenge Of The Vampire, it's not worth reading even if you have it). I would ask though, will you include any non-gamebook FFs in your reviews? I'm thinking in particular of Trolltooth Wars but any others would be interesting (yes, you're getting requests now, take the praise).
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Post by sj1scot on Apr 23, 2023 11:00:35 GMT
I used to review the old Warhammer novels, but I do own Trolltooth wars and I am really keen to revisit it as I remember loving it when I was younger. I did have some of the RPG stuff but I can only find Blacksand in my collection now as well as Titan and Out of the Pit which also deserve their own article as well I think. I also have Demonstealer and Shadowstealer.
So yeah I would say some scope there. Especially when it starts getting harder to pick up the later FF's.
I also want to review the Duelmaster series which I have.
Agree completely about the Starship cover, its by far the best thing about the book! Lulls you in. But that's why I have a cover section in the blog, they are such a big part of my memories of FF.
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Post by thealmightymudworm on Apr 24, 2023 3:40:12 GMT
I do see what you are saying about Caverns, I just felt it was structured in the wrong order. Interesting out of the first 10 books, Caverns and Starship have by far and away the least page views. Obviously not a barometer of quality but think it shows not that popular. I love how worst cover has got everyone talking. What is everyone favorite cover from the first 20 books? (I'm assuming we're talking about the original Puffin covers.)
Predictably, Demons of the Deep is my favourite. Of the rest... Talisman is very good, and I suppose Temple of Terror and Isand of the Lizard King are pretty effective at grabbing your interest (I didn't play those two growing up).
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Post by sj1scot on May 15, 2023 21:29:49 GMT
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Post by CharlesX on May 17, 2023 11:44:49 GMT
Thank you very much sj1scot for getting round to reviewing one of the first FFs I bought and one of my favourites, although probably not one of the best. The artwork, atmosphere and fan service are probably better than the book is. Mrs. Giggles gave this gamebook 5 stars out of 5, which only really shows how biased she can be (doing the same to some awful CYOAs as well), because Trial Of Champions even if it's quite well-written is too hard, too linear, the pre-dungeon section isn't as strong as the dungeon, another dungeon adventure isn't particularly original, no one is friendly and characterisation is limited as is the norm for Livingstone etc. I don't think it's half as imaginative as Deathtrap Dungeon and Livingstone's difficulty level only adds to that. I believe by the way your character went the wrong way a few times in your playthrough, as mine did the first few, but all one needs to know is the true path, while not particularly hard to find, does require very high stats, the Fire Demon fight at the end being pretty outrageous, as is not being given even a single healing potion. Edit: 2nd by the way as well, referencing your blog:
Your blimp reminds me more of one of Family Guy's 'Peter Griffin-copter\blimp\space shuttle' than of James Bond, although that's probably because I went there, as Family Guy isn't the best show. The blimp is a good representation of when two or three FFs a months were being published by underpaid hacks instead of the BS mix of celebrity authors and Livingstone shovelware we have today. Edit: My deep apologies about a moderator's point below, I shouldn't use terms such as 'hack' or 'hack-writer' in this manner (or probably any). Although I seem to have got away with being rude about Livingstone, because 'shovelware' is a rude technical term instead of a rude derogatory one.
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Post by sj1scot on May 17, 2023 18:19:06 GMT
I think you are spot on Charles with what you are saying. I most certainly went the wrong way many times! Yeah the fire imp to the fire demon then you still have to get past the acid and beat Carnuss. My stamina was in pretty good condition for most of the adventure but only because of my skill 12. One thing that I forgot to mention at the end was the random dice rolling, we have stats for a reason to test against, too many rolls of blind luck for me.
And yes the Hindenpeter!
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Post by a moderator on May 17, 2023 22:08:56 GMT
The blimp is a good representation of when two or three FFs a months were being published by underpaid hacks instead of the BS mix of celebrity authors and Livingstone shovelware we have today.
When used to describe writers, 'hack' is a derogatory term. Please remember that the forum rules prohibit insulting people - even the authors of FF books you think could be better.
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Post by a moderator on May 18, 2023 17:46:27 GMT
Although I seem to have got away with being rude about Livingstone, because 'shovelware' is a rude technical term instead of a rude derogatory one.
'Shovelware' targets the gamebook rather than the writer. While there is a grey area where insulting a book can constitute an attack on the author, attacking an item is more likely to be acceptable than attacking a person.
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Post by sj1scot on May 26, 2023 22:01:34 GMT
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Post by CharlesX on May 27, 2023 7:51:17 GMT
I have not read Robot Commando before so your in-depth review was really good. I don't think combining Robots and Dinosaurs was as cynical or cheap as some might think given sci-fi FF didn't sell nearly as well as traditional or Earth-based FF (slightly reminds me of Whedon's Firefly and Serenity). I might read Robot Commando on this basis as it sounds like a fun read.
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Post by Pete Byrdie on May 30, 2023 8:51:48 GMT
Another great review, cheers buddy! I remember loving this book and replaying it multiple times and mapping with extensive notes. For someone who enjoys such nerdy projects, this book has a lot to offer.
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Post by sj1scot on Jun 27, 2023 22:14:45 GMT
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Post by Pete Byrdie on Jun 29, 2023 9:50:52 GMT
Another great review. I remember loving the atmosphere of this book and playing it several times. But it quickly became obvious you'd have to be phenomenally lucky to get the Horn of Hever. Am I right that it's an essential item? Because I think when I realised that I gave up. I remember thinking it couldn't be essential because then you wouldn't need to win a game that's so weighted against you to get it. How naive I must have been.
I reckon if you house-ruled out the random rolls a little, this book could be great. The atmosphere and encounters are all fine.
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Post by a moderator on Jun 29, 2023 11:19:25 GMT
The Horn is not an essential item. The orb that you only have a 1 in 6 chance of being able to acquire is, though.
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Post by Pete Byrdie on Jun 29, 2023 12:30:07 GMT
The Horn is not an essential item. The orb that you only have a 1 in 6 chance of being able to acquire is, though. I'm misremembering then. It's been over thirty years. Perhaps I never found the orb, I certainly remember the trees and the sceptre.
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Post by vastariner on Jun 29, 2023 13:37:09 GMT
Never noticed before, but the Rockwell typeface on the cover does not really suit...if they set an FF in an oil refinery, perhaps.
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kieran
Baron
Posts: 2,462
Favourite Gamebook Series: Fighting Fantasy
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Post by kieran on Jun 29, 2023 16:42:13 GMT
Not only is the horn not essential, it only works on enemies much weaker than the tiger.
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