Magic in FF

[Charles X.]

I'm a big fan of magic in FF, I think it can really add to a game; do you perhaps have a view about it? My big question is 2-fold, mainly, how would you like a magic system to be implemented (if you'd prefer one) in future FFs, and do you have a particular favourite magic system? I think LOZ stands out as probably 'bad', but I thought COC (and Fighting Fantasy RPG) were particularly creative. I'm more into the entire fighter-mage thing than getting one-shot items. Ian Livingstone did a lot of that in FOD and then in EOTD the items sold were maybe 20% cursed, 30% useless, 50% helpful.
   I like the Sorcery! magic system developed in the App game, aside from that I think COC, then Scorpion Swamp, then Temple of Terror, with LOZ not recommended. I might be wrong but I think in the two FFs were you play as an Elf - Phantoms Of Fear and Seige Of Sardath - you can acquire magic powers and objects but you aren't a wizard, so maybe you could play as an Elf? Incidentally those two are some of my favourite FFs, and FOD and LOZ aren't having a laugh, either.

[Charles X.]

Thinking about it I mean more the items found in EOTD could be cursed. With EOTD it was more that half the things you'd get would be useless. More with Assassins Of Allansia, lots of things would be cursed, often pretty heavily.

[drmanhattan]

Sorcery did it best, CoC was promising but underused in that book, at least a low stat character could prevail.

[sylas]

CoC is the easiest system to apply and it works well. Sorcery had the best system but I'd rather that remain unique and not re-implemented.

[Charles X.]

Aug 8, 2021 17:27:45 GMT sylas said:

CoC is the easiest system to apply and it works well. Sorcery had the best system but I'd rather that remain unique and not re-implemented.

Agree, Scorpion Swamp's one is also competitive just best kept to itself and Return To Scorpion Swamp.
   Is the Return To Scorpion Swamp thread dead? I & you could rejoin. In theory the party could have 3 chances, 1 for each Master.

[The Count]

It works well in Citadel of Chaos, Scorpion Swamp, Temple of Terror (though wastes a lot of text by having it each spell as a separate paragraph instead of including them in the main rules or in one big paragraph but it sort of works) and Phantoms of Fear.

In Vault of the Vampire, it feels slightly forced having you learn spells at such a late stage, even though some of the spells are very useful - it would have been better implemented as you finding a magic ring with one spell (I think Jandors Bolt would be the best option, though it could have been a random one of the 6).

In Keep of the Liche Lord the spell makes an already easy book almost pointless

Legend of Zagor is a bit clunky, and due to what are arguably the most useful spells requiring the low skill Sallazar to win an attack round before casting them, it makes him the worst magic user in the game despite as a wizard being the only actual magic user - everyone else just needs to use a magic point for any use of magic.

I do not like the system in Sorcery! It has far too many spells and requires far too many situational items, some of them frankly ridiculous, meaning the Analander must be lugging around several extra large suitcases - and a lot of the spells seem to have no use and only exist as names like COK are funny in the same way that bum faced monsters and creatures smelling of poo are...

[sylas]

Aug 8, 2021 18:12:39 GMT Charles X. said:

Aug 8, 2021 17:27:45 GMT sylas said:

CoC is the easiest system to apply and it works well. Sorcery had the best system but I'd rather that remain unique and not re-implemented.

Agree, Scorpion Swamp's one is also competitive just best kept to itself and Return To Scorpion Swamp.
   Is the Return To Scorpion Swamp thread dead? I & you could rejoin. In theory the party could have 3 chances, 1 for each Master.

I've never been in that thread, man, so no idea what's happening there.

[nathanh]

Citadel of Chaos and Scorpion Swamp had systems that fit well with the FF gamebook structure, I think. Sorcery is a bit more fussy, the "don't look at your spellbook" rule is just annoying, and I think a consequence of the stamina usage is that stamina replenishment is pretty stingy in Sorcery which I don't like that much. Basically it works OK though. Legend of Zagor's system is more about combat/game mechanics and doesn't seem quite as much in keeping with the FF system which is fairly rules-light and choice-heavy. Legend is a crunchy book for FF so it isn't too bad. Most of the combat spells are not really usable though. I think I will try my next Wizard attempt in Legend of Zagor with a rule that you decide to use your spells after winning the round, to see if that makes it more impactful.

[CharlesX]

Aug 10, 2021 22:21:14 GMT nathanh said:

I think I will try my next Wizard attempt in Legend of Zagor with a rule that you decide to use your spells after winning the round, to see if that makes it more impactful.

That would flip the bias in the magic-user from making him an unfairly weak Avatar to an unfairly strong one (unless, that is, you roll below-average stats).

[kieran]

Aug 11, 2021 5:55:21 GMT CharlesX said:

Aug 10, 2021 22:21:14 GMT nathanh said:

I think I will try my next Wizard attempt in Legend of Zagor with a rule that you decide to use your spells after winning the round, to see if that makes it more impactful.

That would flip the bias in the magic-user from making him an unfairly weak Avatar to an unfairly strong one (unless, that is, you roll below-average stats).

I think Sallazar's low Magic score would prevent the change being too much of an advantage. Plus he still needs to win an attack round which is hard going against the more powerful enemies.

Maybe another workaround could be to increase Sallazar's magic score significantly (say starts at 20 points) and give him a separate Skill score for when he's casting spells which is the standard D6+6 - much like how his Spot Skill is treated as differently from his regular Skill.